Why have dress code for Signatures if it's not enforced?

[Mackey Mouse]

Are we comparing in this analogy, people to walls and window decor? Just trying to understand here..

 

[Sugardimples]

I don't understand why what someone else is wearing is anyone else's concern.

 

[ransom]

I haven't seen a problem at the signature restaurants. Every trip, we hit half a dozen or more of them. I've been to California Grill on a Saturday night and seen the place mostly filled with men wearing ties and women in cocktail dresses and the like (many of them locals, I assumed). I've also been to Narcoossee's on a Sunday night and seen people in everything from jeans to suits and dresses. But I've never seen anyone in a signature restaurant who was wearing a bathing suit or any of the other pieces of clothing not allowed by Disney's "Resort Casual" guidelines.

That said, if Disney isn't enforcing their rules, I think that's a bad thing. Either enforce a rule consistently and fairly, or stop pretending and get rid of it.

 

[asmit4]

Someone wrote about how a 'fine dining' experience is about more than the food. I agree with that point.

I find this to be a national trend. Last year my husband and I were celebrating an anniversary. We booked a high end restaurant that has a dress code. At a minimum they expect collared shirts for men along with a tie. Most people wear suits at the restaurant.

We arrived, I in a dress, and my husband in a suit. We were seated next to a group of about 20 guests. Not one dress, skirt or tie in the bunch. They were all dressed like they were headed into Applebees for burgers. We didn't let it ruin our night, but we really felt that the dress code adds to the ambiance.

Of course the restaurant looks at 20 guests and presumes 'we can't send them away- that could be a table worth 2-3K! (Most people don't leave this restaurant for anything less than 100pp.)

When I book a special occasion at a high end place, I expect those around us to dress and act accordingly. I also find that the guests that don't follow the dress code, are also the ones that are rude and loud. JMHO.

Yes, it is the restaurants decision, but as the poster put- WHY bother having a code if they don't enforce it?

 

[Tiger926]

First time back to discussion as we had a late wedding last night.

Very interesting thread. I hesitated to post as I was worried this would turn into the dress code debate, and sadly, it has. My post was legitimate - as a Disney park veteran who logs many hours in parks and has eaten in every WDW restaurant save for a few, I have the right to question why Disney has a dress code when it's not enforced? From a psychological standpoint (I'm a teacher) it doesn't make any sense to waste money on signs, training CMs to tell people when making ADRs or wasting space on their website, when they have no intentions of enforcing said rules. In fact, since it's an inconsistent rule, it actually makes things worse, as this thread shows.

Now in response to certain comments on this thread:

1. I'm tired of reading how I need to lighten up, or, I shouldn't worry about what others are wearing, give me a break! As many people have pointed out, going out to dinner, especially on a special day like Mother's Day, is more than just eating the food. If it were not, than we don't need chairs, tables, linens, etc. as pointed out. Heck, why even bother with bringing food out from the kitchen, just eat from the pots and pans. Dining out is an experience - should it have a place at a theme park? I absolutely say yes, since there are many of us who have no problems with complying with a very simple dress code. If you can't not wear a swimsuit, muscle shirt or pool flip flops for 1.5 hours, then make other dining arrangements outside of Signature restaurants. In fact, we felt very overdressed and so their non-compliance actually made us feel awkward for a minute. As I said, most people were dressed well at Cali Grill, Citricos and Jiko, but we saw the biggest issues at Yacht Club, obviously due to the pool, and Brown Derby, due to being in a theme park. The several families I saw in their pool gear at the Yacht Club were staying at that resort, so no issues with changing and again, if luggage was lost, all they had to do was buy some shirts. I don't want to see my own hubby's chest hair hanging out, so I definitely don't want to see a stranger's either, especially at dinner.

2. I'm not sure if people are not reading my posts, but I specifically said that the one family I am commenting on wore tight muscle shirt tank tops with wording on them (chains and chest hair and all!), tight pool shorts and pool flip flops. They were staying at our hotel as they came from the pool area with wristbands on. The man was flashing around his gold chain, Rolex watch and his platinum card, and staying at the Yacht Club, so I'm thinking that finances were not an issue and so if he had lost his luggage, he could have shopped at the gift shop for his family and bought more clothes in order to comply with the very simple dress code that is in effect. That is just that family - as we walked in to be seated, we saw many others in swimsuits with very loose cover ups, tons of pool flip flops, torn jeans, hats and very short pool shorts. My daughter and I play Eye Spy while waiting for dinner, and so we noticed these things as we were playing the game. We thought what we had seen while waiting was isolated, yet we saw many diners not complying with certain elements of the very simple dress code as we took a closer look. We noticed many women for instance, with very short pool shorts or swimsuits under very loose cover ups, yet they had dressed them up with fancy sandals or make-up. Again, they obviously thought this was dressed up enough.

3. The whole "why is someone concerned about what someone else is wearing?" attitude is silly also. Are you dining alone? Nope! Once you are dining in a public place and sharing space with others, then it is your responsibility to follow the rules set out for you by that establishment, end of story. This shouldn't be a foreign concept since last time I checked, I shared this world with 6 billion other people, many of them seeming to be at the theme parks - LOL!!

Bottom line - As someone who comes from a restaurant family, as well as someone who frequents WDW, and as someone who believes that compliance is very essential in keeping social order and making people feel comfortable, I posted this question as this was our first time at the Signature restaurants. We've wanted to go many times before, but guess what? We never had the right clothes, go figure! My just turned 5 year old daughter has already learned that there is a time and place for everything and she had no problems with complying with dress code rules, yet grown adults do.

Thanks for the discussion - it's interesting to see people's perspectives on this issue, but in some cases, many of you are missing the point, so I'll say it again. If Disney restaurants are not going to enforce their very limited dress code, then they might as well do away with it altogether, or, if it works at the other restuaurants (and it seems to), then cancel the dress code at places like the Yachtsmen or Brown Derby where pool/theme park casual seems to be the norm.

Thanks, Tiger

 

[Paparazzimama]

First time back to discussion as we had a late wedding last night.

Very interesting thread. I hesitated to post as I was worried this would turn into the dress code debate, and sadly, it has. My post was legitimate - as a Disney park veteran who logs many hours in parks and has eaten in every WDW restaurant save for a few, I have the right to question why Disney has a dress code when it's not enforced? From a psychological standpoint (I'm a teacher) it doesn't make any sense to waste money on signs, training CMs to tell people when making ADRs or wasting space on their website, when they have no intentions of enforcing said rules. In fact, since it's an inconsistent rule, it actually makes things worse, as this thread shows.

Now in response to certain comments on this thread:

1. I'm tired of reading how I need to lighten up, or, I shouldn't worry about what others are wearing, give me a break! As many people have pointed out, going out to dinner, especially on a special day like Mother's Day, is more than just eating the food. If it were not, than we don't need chairs, tables, linens, etc. as pointed out. Heck, why even bother with bringing food out from the kitchen, just eat from the pots and pans. Dining out is an experience - should it have a place at a theme park? I absolutely say yes, since there are many of us who have no problems with complying with a very simple dress code. If you can't not wear a swimsuit, muscle shirt or pool flip flops for 1.5 hours, then make other dining arrangements outside of Signature restaurants. As I said, most people were dressed well at Cali Grill, Citricos and Jiko, but we saw the biggest issues at Yacht Club, obviously due to the pool, and Brown Derby, due to being in a theme park. The several families I saw in their pool gear at the Yacht Club were staying at that resort, so no issues with changing and again, if luggage was lost, all they had to do was buy some shirts. I don't want to see my own hubby's chest hair hanging out, so I definitely don't want to see a stranger's either, especially at dinner.

2. I'm not sure if people are not reading my posts, but I specifically said that the one family I am commenting on wore tight muscle shirt tank tops with wording on them (chains and chest hair and all!), tight pool shorts and pool flip flops. They were staying at our hotel as they came from the pool area with wristbands on. The man was flashing around his gold chain, Rolex watch and his platinum card, and staying at the Yacht Club, so I'm thinking that finances were not an issue and so if he had lost his luggage, he could have shopped at the gift shop for his family and bought more clothes in order to comply with the very simple dress code that is in effect. That is just that family - as we walked in to be seated, we saw many others in swimsuits with very loose cover ups, tons of pool flip flops, torn jeans, hats and very short pool shorts. My daughter and I play Eye Spy while waiting for dinner, and so we noticed these things as we were playing the game. We thought what we had seen while waiting was isolated, yet we saw many diners not complying with certain elements of the very simple dress code as we took a closer look. We noticed many women for instance, with very short pool shorts or swimsuits under very loose cover ups, yet they had dressed them up with fancy sandals or make-up. Again, they obviously thought this was dressed up enough.

3. The whole "why is someone concerned about what someone else is wearing?" attitude is silly also. Are you dining alone? Nope! Once you are dining in a public place and sharing space with others, then it is your responsibility to follow the rules set out for you by that establishment, end of story. This shouldn't be a foreign concept since last time I checked, I shared this world with 6 billion other people, many of them seeming to be at the theme parks - LOL!!

Bottom line - As someone who comes from a restaurant family, as well as someone who frequents WDW, and as someone who believes that compliance is very essential in keeping social order and making people feel comfortable, I posted this question as this was our first time at the Signature restaurants. We've wanted to go many times before, but guess what? We never had the right clothes, go figure! My just turned 5 year old daughter has already learned that there is a time and place for everything and she had no problems with complying with dress code rules, yet grown adults do.

Thanks for the discussion - it's interesting to see people's perspectives on this issue, but in some cases, many of you are missing the point, so I'll say it again. If Disney restaurants are not going to enforce their very limited dress code, then they might as well do away with it altogether.

Thanks, Tiger

Very well put! Your thread was a totally legitimate discussion and was totally undeserving of some of the nonsense it got in return! I'm glad you got to speak your "peace" about it. We always check dress codes before dining out and wouldn't dream of choosing a restaurant that we felt we couldn't "comply" with their policies - just out of embarassment alone! Not to mention the message it gives our kids (who can both read well enough to notice the dress code sign that is posted) about following the "rules". (This is me stepping off of my soap box )

In response to your original post, I agree that Disney should either enforce this rule or do away with it. As sad as it would be for the fine dining experience if there were no dress code, it wouldn't be any worse than having people that disregard it anyway.

 

[NMW]

WE ate at Yachtsman the day before Mothers Day. I did not see people in bathing suits however. During our trip we dined at Yachtsman, Calif Grill, Citricos, Narcoossee's.

At every place we saw people in tee-shirts, sneakers and flip-flops. Many women had on tank shirts or cotton tees and cotton shorts.

Let me tell you about the night we ate at Calif grill. I'm curious as to your opinions on what I should have done.

OK, earlier that day I was watching the Beauty & the Beast show in DHS with crocs on. I got bit on my foot by some sort of bug. It really hurt and was sort of on the side of my foot. Band-aids were not staying on and I ended up buying socks to wear with the crocs that day.

That night we were getting dressed for Calif Grill and my black flats I planned to wear caused considerable pain on the bite spot. The only shoes that did not were Teva black flip-flops. My husband, who doesn't get too worked up about dress codes was baffled as to why I was concerned about wearing them and told me that no one is going to look at my feet. Now to set the scene, I had on khaki capris and a black v-neck tee-shirt with a Mickey head shape that had crystals in it that I bought at the Animal Kingdom. So, I was already concerned that I was not dressed up enough. My husband thought I was being ridiculous.

So, I went in the Teva flip-flops and as soon as we walked up to check in, this really nasty woman looks directly at my feet and gives me a very pointed dirty look. I walked over to check us in and my husband heard her say "I thought this was business casual" to her husband. I'd like to point out that my children were dressed better than hers, not that it really means anything! We ended up riding the elevator to the reataurant with them. It was our first time trying Calif Grill. Every other time we planned to dine there, we ended up switching it to Flying Fish. The CM asked all of us if this was our first time eating at the restaurant on the ride up. We said "Yes, first time." This woman physically bristled at admitting that they had not dined at Calif Grill before and actually wouldn't look at us. I'm telling you those flip-flops had her really bent! As we were waiting at the bar to be seated we saw men in tee-shirts and sneakers. We saw many other people in flip flops and cotton (not dress) shorts. I told my husband that these people were going to push that woman over the edge.

So, what do you think? Should we have not dined at Calif Grill because of the bug bite/flip-flop issue or was she just rude? I'm really curious to know your opinions.

 

[madalex]

One man's perspective (and one data point on the issue of how prevalent dress code violations are): I have been to WDW over a dozen times in the last 10 years, including two trips in the last year. I always eat dinner at the signature restaurants as I do enjoy the better food and the entire dining experience one gets there. The dress code is important to me and I do dress up (relatively speaking) and wear khaki pants (dress shorts if its warm) and collared shirts. I would notice people who are not dressed in a manner suggested by Disney's dress code and it would bother me. That being said, I cannot recall a single situation where that has ever been the case. Thus, while I do agree with the OP's lament, I, personally, have never experienced at a signature restaurant patrons dressed in the slovenly manner she describes, despite dozens of meals at such restaurants.

 

[kwelch10377]

If Disney does have a dress code then yes they should enforce it or get rid of it. I am sure though if they got rid of it you will still have people complaining that there needs to be a dress code.

That being said, maybe there was a reason why they weren't in dress code, we can't always judge a suitation just by looking at it. When it comes down to it is it really that big of a deal to get all worked up over? I think there are so many other important things in life to worry about than what other people are wearing and when.

 

[Uncleromulus]

At WDW, we eat almost exclusively at the Signature restaurants. We've done them all multiple times. This last trip (last week) --and the trip before (in December) Yachtsman was one of those spots for dinner. Just like Madalex, we've never seen actual swimwear as described at the Yachtsman--or any other Signature restaurant for that matter. The term "dress shorts" has certainly been carried to some extremes, but every patron we saw (and I make it a point to look, just for the sake of these threads) was dressed "to code". ..which is essentially no bathing suits, no torn clothing.

So I'm prepared to suggest Disney DOES enforce the code--it's more of a question about the code itself than anything else.

And I would also observe that footwear is not specifically mentioned at all in the published code...some might infer flip-flops as being "swimwear", but many others evidently do not.

 

[Stittsville]

I'm with you on this one, Tiger926.

You said you were at a wedding. There is certainly a minumum level of dress expected at a wedding. Would people think it would be appropriate to wear anything they feel like at a wedding? I hope not!

 

[stitchsgrandpa]

We ate this month during our visit at a few of the "Signature Restaurants" not impressed at all with food or service. We did find most of patrions dress smart casual. The ones my wife, daughter and I had were with those dressed without modesty. Low cut necklines (very low) even had one do a Brittney as she sat down. One can even dress up and look trashy! Special thanks to lady that did a fine imitation of Miss Piggy at Narcoossee.
California Grill
Yachtsman
Narcoossee
Jiko's

 

[TDC Nala]

While I'd expect folks who are aware of the Disney signature dress code to attempt to meet it, I wouldn't expect anyone to feel it was necessary to exceed it. Because they say "no flip flops" I'm not going to worry about showing up in beaded thong sandals, although some patrons might consider them the same thing. I seriously doubt I am going to be removed from a restaurant for wearing thong sandals unless maybe it's Victoria and Alberts. What really matters is whether or not the shoes look nice or they look like you just got out of the swimming pool.

Apparently most patrons abide by it (I've never seen anyone in swimwear in a signature restaurant, but I have seen a few wearing shorts that I wouldn't have worn there), and those that don't, while few and far between, are apparently subject to Disney's traditional avoidance of confrontations with guests unless they think it's absolutely necessary (i.e. the guest is causing a disruption or committing a crime).

And I don't get that it's absolutely necessary to wear a dress anywhere...I've worn a pants suit to Victoria and Alberts before.

 

[suzimar57]

we would have found the wife-beater wearing, gold-chain flashing guy in the abovementioned post annoying, but it wouldn't have ruined our meal - we tend to just ignore them and figure they're like that at home, too...

 

[davinakb]

That said, if Disney isn't enforcing their rules, I think that's a bad thing. Either enforce a rule consistently and fairly, or stop pretending and get rid of it.

To the original topic, why it is not enforced: as others have guessed, because TPTB want to keep people happy, and the $ coming back. I've not seen it enforced, it bugs at times, and I could say more but know better. So FWIW:

• The dress code exists to notify guests of the type of establishment they are visiting. Those two words alone go a long way to managing expectations and guiding most guests, enforced or not. I'd rather have it as is, than risk it being gone all together.
• The dress code is subjective and open to interpretation: one person's cute, strappy nice sandal may be another's "flip flops;" some people have nice jeans that dress up well, while others consider no jean dressy; and stitchsgrandpa IMO jeans look better than a too tight, too revealing dress.
• Bottom line: When I make an ADR for a signature, I'm cleaning up and changing out of my sweaty park clothes. That has as much to do with comfort (I get cold in the A/C) as the dress code. Exception: Park places like HBD, Coral Reef, Bistro de Paris; it's understandable to not want to leave to go change just for a meal. (I just dress a little nicer those days, more ironing/matching and less grungy/bummy.)

 

[rico567]

What a fascinating thread, since the subject is one that never palls, nor should it : manners. All the little ways we show kindness -or how near we still are to the beast- to others in the course of our everyday lives. There's room for expatiation galore here, but I'll just leave it with a line from someone who, I believe, had it right.

"It begins with bad manners, and ends with random shootings in the streets."

- Evelyn Waugh

....and we're getting there.

 

[wezee]

We have always been told by the CMs, when making our ADRs...that dress is "resort casual". We have visited many signature rest. at WDW, and never really noticed abuse of the dress code. I usually wear skort or capris with matching top and sandals...and DH wears jeans or shorts with either a polo shirt or dress Tshirt. The dress code does not call for dresses for women or dress slacks for men.

Over all I feel WDW does a good job at their signature rest. I do not feel the majority of diners are out of line, in regard to their attire! I do agree that muscle shirts and swimwear would not be appropriate!
But, please keep in mind...
1. We are on vacation at WDW
2. The dress code is resort casual...not business casual.
3. I would not pack a dress and dress shoes for dining, unless I was going to V&A!!!!!!
4. I would not want people to get the idea, that the majority of diners at the signatures, wear dresses or shirt and ties, because that is just not the case!
5. If someone does not like my dressy sandals....I guess they should not be looking at my feet!

 

[Quiksilvr]

I agree with the OP 100%. Enforce the dress code or don't have a dress code. My wife and I ate at several Signature restaurants last fall during our honeymoon and we did notice several families who were not compliant with the dress code and were often loud and obnoxious (most families were compliant, but my experience shows that those who choose not to comply with simple rules like dress codes tend to be disruptive in other ways as well). We chose to not let it bother us at the time, but afterwards we also asked ourselves why the dress code even exists if Disney is not going to enforce it.

To those who say that what you're wearing should have no bearing on another diner's experience or "how the food tastes", the only thing I can draw from that is that you don't eat at expensive, fine dining restaurants very often. I live in downtown Washington, DC and my wife and I eat out at very expensive restaurants on a regular basis. We like to get dressed up, we like to go out, and we like restaurants that offer us a fine dining experience. Included in that fine dining experience is a certain level of decorum not only on the part of the restaurants, but also on the part of our fellow diners. It is a matter of respect; diners choose to respect the restaurant's rules, and the restaurant chooses to respect its diners by enforcing those rules. If you can't appreciate and respect that, I don't really know what else to say.

Walt Disney World is clearly a theme-park based resort. This environment is not conducive to the high class fine dining experiences I find in my city. I am willing to grant that. Accordingly, I think the WDW dress code is an acceptable compromise for those of us who want to have fine dining "experiences" (again, an experience beyond simply good food) and those of us who want to be able to eat at nice restaurants in as relaxed a way as possible. It is all for naught, however, if Disney chooses not to respect the rules it has set for its patrons (and indirectly chooses not to respect the patrons who do follow the rules). That brings us back to the original point: enforce the rules, or lose the rules. We'll all be happier for it.

 

[bicker]

Are we comparing in this analogy, people to walls and window decor? Just trying to understand here..

We're not talking about the people; we're talking about what they're wearing.

 

[Tricia1972]

Walt Disney World is clearly a theme-park based resort. This environment is not conducive to the high class fine dining experiences I find in my city. I am willing to grant that. Accordingly, I think the WDW dress code is an acceptable compromise for those of us who want to have fine dining "experiences" (again, an experience beyond simply good food) and those of us who want to be able to eat at nice restaurants in as relaxed a way as possible. It is all for naught, however, if Disney chooses not to respect the rules it has set for its patrons (and indirectly chooses not to respect the patrons who do follow the rules). That brings us back to the original point: enforce the rules, or lose the rules. We'll all be happier for it.

I agree with your entire post, except I don't live in Washington DC.

I bolded this, because I believe it to be the crux of the issue. Disney has many rules that people chose to ignore. OP's example is a simple basic dress code.

Across the board, I believe Disney would be a happier place if the same rules applied to everyone. Heeleys, Cutting, and Dress Code included.