Why have dress code for Signatures if it's not enforced?

[Jubilee]

To be honest, I never pay much attention to how others are dressed other than my family. Bad behavior from other adults and children tend to bother me more.

Agreed

Politely express your feelings to the restaurant manager while you're there; and write to Disney now and let them know how disappointed you were.

Agreed

Dress shorts are perfectly okay, even for the grown ups. The dress code isn't bad at all. It basicaly asks you do not dress like a hobo and not wear swim wear.

I agree that this is what it asks. It sounds like many people are disappointed in what other patrons are wearing, but that what they're wearing may not be against dress code... so, I guess the issue is that it's a theme park, it's a beach centered beautiful pool resort and Disney has a hard time upholding a strict dress code for these reasons. They probably don't want to offend.

I have seen many men eating with their hats on, and even in a regular table service "sit down meal" I find this the most annoying of all.

 

[Reginak]

While I understand your points and agree (we also were nicer clothes to dinner which are well within the dress code), I also understand why WDW doesn't strictly enforce the dress codes.

Most of the people visiting are traveling and may not have included appropriate clothing - it is a theme park, for goodness sake! Some are spur of the moment diners and some, when they were packing, had no idea that WDW offered fine dining. Many are lazy and/or don't care.

Just having the dress code encourages many to dress well and gives them an idea about what kind of restaurant they are attending. Many others learn from the people seated around them and dress appropriately when they return.

I am happy about the state of things and hope that they don't change.

Regina

 

[bicker]

A few other notes about this...

The additional fees airlines are charging for a second checked bag does not provide incentive for vacationers to pack additional clothing just to wear for dinner. This has been discussed in great detail, and with substantial animosity, on cruise-oriented websites, since cruises, with their traditional formal nights, will be most quickly and substantially affected by guests' unwillingness to bring additional clothing with them for that one use. With regard to WDW restaurants, and the small amount of extra clothing needed, I think it is worth it, but many people won't, and that doesn't make them unreasonable. Which leaves the restaurants with a choice: Satisfy those who want some dress code enforced and chase the others away, or satisfy those who don't want some dress code enforced and let those who are disappointed by that make up their own minds about whether they want to stay away. The hard, cold truth is that, today, as society is, the restaurants are substantially better rewarded by us, their patrons, for doing the latter rather than the former. More and more restaurants that listen to their customers will relax dress codes, and relax dress code enforcement even more.

 

[Tissa]

I'm taking my ds to Yachtsman for his 13th birthday dinner next month. He wants to "dress fancy" as he calls it with a dress shirt and a tie. I even found a Mickey tie on Ebay for him to wear. We will be going to Epcot afterward so I'm just bringing extra stuff for us to change into for the parks.

I've been told by people that we will be over dressed which is annoying since I was told there was a dress code when making the ADR. Of course we are going a little over the dress code but still it would be annoying to see people next to us in pool wear.

Oh well, I just will just have to ignore others and not let it bother me. This is his special dinner and I'll focus on that.

 

[rico567]

Sure sounds to me (from this thread, anyhow) like the dress code is observed more in the breach than otherwise. From other reading I've done (never been to WDW, first time will be coming June), I have to suspect that the dining plan is a facilitator in this, and in other unfortunate things (lowering quality of food & service) that always occur when there's a "captive audience." We're staying at POR, but I'm thinking more and more we just eat...."off campus."

 

[bicker]

Sure sounds to me (from this thread, anyhow) like the dress code is observed more in the breach than otherwise.

I think that is the danger of threads like this: It does tend to give some folks the mistaken impression that the dress code is observed more in the breach, when that is not the case. The dress code is discussed more in the breach; it is simply not very interesting to say, "and everyone was dressed properly".

The vast majority of guests comply with the dress codes (and remember, the dress codes at WDW are quite liberal). It seems to some folks that that is not the case, even from personal experience, because their eye is drawn more to the infrequent transgression than it is drawn to the practically ubiquitous compliance.

From other reading I've done (never been to WDW, first time will be coming June), I have to suspect that the dining plan is a facilitator in this

The Dining Plan has practically no role in the matter of compliance with or transgression of the dress codes. You do hit on what does, later in this sentence...

and in other unfortunate things (lowering quality of food & service) that always occur when there's a "captive audience."

You've hit on the key to this issue: It is the "captive audience" aspect that is the biggest driver of everything you've mentioned as well as the affected aspects that you didn't mention: Dress code, food quality, service quality, difficulty getting reservations/walk-in accommodations, variety and choice, etc. People simply do not want to waste an hour leaving Disney property, and another hour getting back to Disney property, just so they can dine in one of the competing restaurants off-property. So Disney can charge a lot more, for a lot less, and still expect to attract more than enough patrons to show turnover that would be the envy of any typical restaurant. That doesn't mean that there aren't super dining experiences available on-property: Rather, you just have to be willing to pay a lot more for the privilege of enjoying those types of experiences.

The Dining Plan is a red herring in all this. Disney can sell the Dining Plan because guests are a "captive market", so many guests recognize that they might as well get the Dining Plan since they're going to eat on-property anyway. It doesn't work the other way around. The "captive market" is the driver; not the Dining Plan.

We're staying at POR, but I'm thinking more and more we just eat...."off campus."

The more people eat off-property, the more those of us who eat at Disney restaurants gain advantages from there being lesser demand on the Disney restaurants. So, if you do decide to eat off-property, let me say "thanks"!

 

[Tiger926]

First chance to get back to this discussion as we are in unpacking hell over here - LOL!!

Interesting discussion. I must remind some though that I specifically mentioned that in Cali Grill and Citricos, most patrons were dressed nicely, but it was at Yachtsmen and Brown Derby - water park resort and theme park - where people were dressed in clear violation of the dress code. Patrons were dressed in tank tops, swim suits, flip flops, jeans, hats and torn clothing. Like I said, it was not hard to notice as the waiting area is very small, and the one family was very loud and obnoxious right from the start. Coming from a restaurant family I know that Disney doesn't want to offend anyone, so they seem to let it slide, except for V & A, where not only is a strict dress code in effect, but no children are allowed either. Disney clearly wants the revenue the non-dress code compliant people bring, thus they don't make that big a deal of it. Not sure what the future holds as we saw people in every Signature we were in who were dressed very inappropriately in regards to the dress code, some may be by accident, and some were on purpose, I'm sure of it.

Bicker - Interesting points as usual. I do beg to differ in regards to your comments on the Dining Plan though. As someone who frequented all of these restaurants before the DP (we paid cash) as we dislike counter service restaurants, the whole TS experience is not new for us, especially me as the daughter of a restauranter. For many people though, the DP is allowing them for the 1st time a whole new dining experience, so dress codes are not something that they might be used to. On a related note, my father in law thinks jeans and running shoes are dressed up. His family dressed very differently at our very formal Italian wedding - their idea of dressed up and ours is totally different, and so I expect some of what I saw may have been in this regard as I saw people in jeans and running shoes with make-up and hair done up, so this is their idea of dressed up, despite what the dress code may say. In all fairness to them, we are afterall at a theme park, and so most families pack for what they will wear the majority of the time. Also, transportation may be an issue - for us, we have our car and so we go back to resort to rest, shower up, get dressed up and go to Siganature dinners. It's doable for us, but if we didn't have the ability to make it work, we wouldn't frequent those restaurants in the first place.

Bottom line - several of the families whom I saw leaving the pool area have to be staying at Yacht or Beach Club, as there is no pool hopping allowed; therefore, it is their responsibility to know the dress code as it's outside of restaurant, as well as in room dining brochure. Also, these families have no excuses for not being able to change as their room is right there. They more than likely didn't care and that is the point that I have a problem with.

Thanks, Tiger

 

[disnut8]

Most of the people visiting are traveling and may not have included appropriate clothing - it is a theme park, for goodness sake! Some are spur of the moment diners and some, when they were packing, had no idea that WDW offered fine dining. Many are lazy and/or don't care.

I agree.

Someone makes a dining reservation (if they even know they should do that). They are told about the dress code but they aren't writing it down. So, a month or two or six (180) later, they are packing. I dunno, I'm going to Disney World and I have to pack good clothes? I wouldn't think about it at all.

And I'm going to get flamed for this but I'll say it anyway. What the heck does your clothes have to do with how your food tastes? I personally don't like anyone's feet showing at all. No sandals, no flip flops of any kind. You won't even see me wearing an open toed shoe. But I see lots of people wearing those kind of foot gear, especially now in the summer. I just turn my head and enjoy my meal.

 

[Tink888]

Bottom line - several of the families whom I saw leaving the pool area have to be staying at Yacht or Beach Club, as there is no pool hopping allowed; therefore, it is their responsibility to know the dress code as it's outside of restaurant, as well as in room dining brochure. Also, these families have no excuses for not being able to change as their room is right there. They more than likely didn't care and that is the point that I have a problem with.

QUOTE]

While I absolutely agree with you that they were dressed inappropriately, it's very possible that (1) they didn't have ADR's and were walk-ups; (2) it could have been the first day of their trip, they could have flown and used Magical Express and their luggage may not have arrived at their room and they only had a carry-on bag; and (3) may just have been clueless.

Not everyone at Disney is a Disboard member who is "in the know" and I just think we need to be careful when making assumptions about others.

 

[rico567]

Much thanks, "Bicker," for all the thoughtful observations. These kinds of posts put us closer to making informed decisions, rather than having to go to WDW for the first time "blind," and only being able to read rah-rah threads....which are perhaps a big part of the picture, but hardly exhaustive.

The fact is that we're in Orlando for a corporate convention, and for the 4 days all meals but dinner are provided (off-WDW). So it's not like we've got this huge problem anyway. We're going to Epcot as our chosen park, so I'm sure we'll eat there that day, and that only leaves three meals to decide on. Hardly the logistical task of planning for, say, a family of four for 10 days......

As far as the dress code business goes.....not really an issue for us, I suppose, if we're hungry. The inability to maintain a dress code, given the nature of WDW, is simply inevitable. Alexis de Tocqueville discussed it quite well in Democracy in America 170 years ago.

 

[TDC Nala]

I've never seen anyone in swimwear in a signature restaurant personally. Not that I care what they're wearing. I think I'd notice if a party came in wearing bikinis and muscle shirts.

it was at Yachtsmen and Brown Derby - water park resort and theme park - where people were dressed in clear violation of the dress code. Patrons were dressed in tank tops, swim suits, flip flops, jeans, hats and torn clothing.

Jeans are permitted under the WDW signature dress code. Tank tops are OK for women (assuming they don't reveal too much, I guess) but not for men. When they say "flip flops" they mean pool-type shoes, not all types of thong sandals. They've changed the code to permit tee shirts, even printed tee shirts, as long as they don't say anything objectionable (by this, I assume they mean obscenities).

At any rate a restaurant in a theme park (and unless I'm incorrect Brown Derby and Bistro de Paris are the only signatures located in theme parks; you don't see Bistro on the list much because they don't take the dining plan) would attract persons in theme park attire who are spending the day at the park and don't have the time or the inclination to spend a couple of hours going back to the hotel to change.

I did like reading that if I choose not to get a car, maybe I shouldn't attend signature restaurants if I don't want to take the time to dress up for them. Heck, if they allow jeans (which they do, except for Victoria & Alberts) I am going to wear jeans if that's easiest.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

I wish they enforced the dress code more. I make a point of being in dress that is in code, even though I don't get as dressed up as I would for a similar restaurant back home.

 

[Aardvarks]

Hello,

May I ask which are the Signature Places that have a dress code and what is required of my family and myself.

As we are visitors to your land, we have no intention of causing offense or indeed of looking fools.

This year we have taken the DDP and we are making reservations at places such as Narcosee and the places in EPCOT.

Thanks

 

[MickeyNicki]

We were at the Yachtsman last month and no one was staggling in from the pool. Everyone was dressed in shorts or pants, DH had jeans on and a Polo, I had on flip flops. There was a mixed bag of dressy and casual but no one with bathing suits or cover ups, no one was a "mess".

 

[Tiger926]

Again, not trying to be difficult, but I know the difference between swim wear, pool flip flops and tank tops. Two gentlemen were in muscle tank tops with writing on the shirt, pool flip flops and swim shorts - they both had huge gold chains haning out, so maybe this is what constituted dress up for them - LOL!

Jeans - I thought jeans were not part of dress code, sorry about that. Again, this is an area that could cause problems. I saw tattered jeans with old running shoes - your definition of acceptable jeans and mine are probably different.

The whole point of my thread is that all Signature restaurants should enforce the dress code. I am not assuming that all patrons are Disers, and should know the rules as when you call for an ADR you are told of the dress code, plus, I saw the dress code posted right outside of the Yachtsmen door. They were not taking any walk-ups as they were full up as it was Mother's Day, so that shouldn't have been an option either. If so, the gift shop had a huge selection of clothing that could be purchased for dinner. There are options available, but, if they are not stricly enforced, then, as we quickly noticed, people will take advantage of the situation in any way, shape or form. We just came back from a 15 day trip and ate everywhere, so we saw all kinds of dress. I'm not lying, embellishing or trolling, I am reporting what we aw. I'm not trying to offend anyone in regards to their choice of dress if complying with the dress code, but we saw a large amount of people who were non-dress code compliant that day and it being Mother's Day really bothered us a lot.

True, dress code has nothing to do with the taste of the food, but it has to do with the atmosphere and presentation of the meal, and that is very important to my family and I.

Thanks, Tiger

 

[Deb & Bill]

I agree.

Someone makes a dining reservation (if they even know they should do that). They are told about the dress code but they aren't writing it down. So, a month or two or six (180) later, they are packing. I dunno, I'm going to Disney World and I have to pack good clothes? I wouldn't think about it at all.

And I'm going to get flamed for this but I'll say it anyway. What the heck does your clothes have to do with how your food tastes? I personally don't like anyone's feet showing at all. No sandals, no flip flops of any kind. You won't even see me wearing an open toed shoe. But I see lots of people wearing those kind of foot gear, especially now in the summer. I just turn my head and enjoy my meal.

Ah, but even in the Bible, those guests invited at the last minute to the wedding were turned out because they did not have the appropriate garb on. And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[kmores]

Bottom line - several of the families whom I saw leaving the pool area have to be staying at Yacht or Beach Club, as there is no pool hopping allowed; therefore, it is their responsibility to know the dress code as it's outside of restaurant, as well as in room dining brochure. Also, these families have no excuses for not being able to change as their room is right there. They more than likely didn't care and that is the point that I have a problem with.

QUOTE]

While I absolutely agree with you that they were dressed inappropriately, it's very possible that (1) they didn't have ADR's and were walk-ups; (2) it could have been the first day of their trip, they could have flown and used Magical Express and their luggage may not have arrived at their room and they only had a carry-on bag; and (3) may just have been clueless.

Not everyone at Disney is a Disboard member who is "in the know" and I just think we need to be careful when making assumptions about others.

I have been a member on here but never really posted until now. we have been on 3 trips to WDW in 2 years. I would not have purposely ignored the dress code, and would have been embarrassed to find myself grossly underdressed. had I not gotten on line now (desperately trying to get November EMH and commiserating with others waiting patiently!), I honestly would not have paid attention to the "dress code" and would not have packed anything more than t-shirts and jeans for DH and short - maybe 1 pair pants for cold day for DD. Mainly because this is new for signature restaurants. we usually just bought the regular dining plan so we wouldn't have chosen the 2-table service restaurants. I never even looked at the menus. I went on another board looking at new mens - there was no mention of a dress code. I kind of assumed V&A had one, but we wouldn't go there because of having DD with us (age8). I am glad I am aware of it now. however, we do have reservations when we first get there. I hope our luggage makes it there on time. I will not be wearing dressy clothing on the plane, however.

 

[TDC Nala]

WDW is notorious for avoiding confrontations with guests of the type they'd get if they turned diners away from signature restaurants for what they are wearing. Nonetheless, they do have the dress code, and at any point they could decide to start enforcing it across the board.

Jeans are on the permitted clothing list, but torn clothing is disallowed. I remember the previous poster stating he/she saw diners in jeans, but didn't specify torn jeans.

I see no restrictions on footgear other than "flip flops" which no doubt refers to poolwear. At a theme park where lots of walking is required you're bound to see many diners in footwear chosen for comfort rather than style, which may be why they don't disallow sneakers.

 

[bicker]

Bicker - Interesting points as usual. I do beg to differ in regards to your comments on the Dining Plan though. As someone who frequented all of these restaurants before the DP (we paid cash) as we dislike counter service restaurants, the whole TS experience is not new for us

Many of us in the same situation. Similarly, many of us have noted a change in restaurant service in our hometowns, now, paralleling that we've seen at destination theme park resorts (like WDW). (We've also noted the same on cruise ships.)

 

[bicker]

What the heck does your clothes have to do with how your food tastes?

Without expressing a strong perspective, myself, about this, I can answer your question on behalf of people who do have strong feelings about it: If people just wanted food, then they wouldn't need servers, linen tablecloths, dishes and glasses (instead of paper plates and plastic cups), pretty decor, etc. Going to a restaurant is a "dining experience" including the food, the service, the ambiance, etc.