Why does John McCain hate America?

[eclectics]

I don't mind if the Dems do mount this type of campaign. It will be easily challenged. After all, how many progressives do you imagine were in the Hanoi Hilton (as residents, not staff of course) ?

As an added bonus, we also get to watch the two Democrat campaigns test out their strategies against each other........while our powder stays dry........

My point was that they would not disrespect him the same way the Bush campaign did to Kerry.

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

Actualy, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Spin it all you want, but that's the way it is.

no, again its those pesky little DETAILS. The LEFT is the one spinning.

McCain said he didn't mind having a long term presence in Iraq for 100 years as long as NO servicemen were being injured or killed....when no serviceman are being injured or killed, thats not called a War...thats called what we have in Germany which I see no great public outcry over......

he never took the option of bombing Iran off the table, thats called being smart, recognizing Iran just got smacked with its 3rd round of sanctions for advancing its nuclear program...and understanding an Islamic militant tyrant dictator with a nucear bomb is a bad idea

Mcain voted against the Bush tax cuts. Twice, and was the one out in front on the firing of Rumsfeld and the change in strategy in Iraq....those two guys have a "cordial" relationship, they are not best buds and McCain has HARDLY suuported every move the man has made....far from it.

I'll go ahead an reiterate the torture issue. McCain said he disagreed with the PROCEDURAL part of the bill that required the CIA to use the Army Field Mnual to follow for their interrogations. His issue was the fact that the CIA and the Army are two totally different agencies. He respected the CIA to devise and follow its own rules IN CONPLIANCE with the Detainee Act which prohibts torture including according to McCain waterboarding.

I find it funny because some of the issues where McCain has bucked the Conservative base of his party for, he now getting hammered for by the left......pesky little details...and Obama/Billary isn't going to get a pass on mischaracterizing McCain's positions in the general election.

 

[wvrevy]

George Bush was elected before 9/11...different ball game now. I think electing someone with depth and experience when it comes to matters of foriegn policy is pretty darn important. McCain TRULY understands and appreciates the weight of the decisions involving our troops as a direct result of not only his experience as POW but his experience as an actual Commander in the military. Commander-in-chief....you do not promote the fry cook to run the entire national operation of your fast food business because he inspires people.

There was also that little election in 2004 where he was running against a veteran.

So a Harvard educated, constitutional expert with more than a decade of legislative experience is now the equivalent of a "fry cook" ?

this is what we're going to get going forward....its all the left CAN throw at John McCain...let me tell you what we're going to hear in the general election all of which is twisting McCain positions, oversimplifying his views, or downright mischaraterizing him. Its already begun...

"John McCain wants to fight the war in Iraq for 100 year"

"John McCain wants to bomb Iran"

"John McCain supported everything Bush did"

"John McCain flip flopped on torture"

um, no, no, no, and no.....

...Wants bases in Iraq "just like Germany and Korea"...

..."Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" See it for yourself

...In the last four years, when has he stood up to Bush?

...He did. Here's an article talking about his initial stance: Against it before he was for it

I don't mind if the Dems do mount this type of campaign. It will be easily challenged. After all, how many progressives do you imagine were in the Hanoi Hilton (as residents, not staff of course) ?

As an added bonus, we also get to watch the two Democrat campaigns test out their strategies against each other........while our powder stays dry........

I do. I have no patience for Rovian campaign tactics. That's one reason why I'm supporting Obama over Hillary.

As for that last part...don't you mean you get to watch Democrats dominate the news cycle while everyone forgets about McCain for the next 6 months?

 

[CowboyCO]

Nor will they run that type of "swiftboat" campaign against McCain.

The reason that Kerry was "swiftboated" is because he made his service a central part of his campaign, after demonstrating against the war and accusing men he served with of committing war crimes. This made people who served with him very unhappy, so they went after him.

There is an effort by liberals to discredit McCain's actions in the service by blaming him for the fire on the Forrestal. They have also questioned his "hot dog" third bombing run the mission on which he was shot down and have attacked him for "crashing" 5 planes while in the Navy. (They are including the plane on the deck of the Forrestal, the one he was shot down in, an F-4 Phantom that lost it's engine and he had to bail out, and a training accident in flight school).

 

[wvrevy]

....those two guys have a "cordial" relationship, they are not best buds and McCain has HARDLY suuported every move the man has made....far from it.

They look pretty cozy to me.

 

[profdsny]

P he now getting hammered for by the left......pesky little details...and Obama/Billary isn't going to get a pass on mischaracterizing McCain's positions in the general election.

Actually, the cons are doing a good enough job of it as it is. Again, read the post above about this guy. AND maybe something beside talking points. How, for instance, he supported Rummy 100% when the invasion started and didn't challenge him for almost 2 years.
Oh, and then there's the minister from Texas who endorsed McCain. You know, the one who calls Catholicism the "great *****." Spin that one also while you're at it.

 

[profdsny]

There is an effort by liberals to discredit McCain's actions in the service by blaming him for the fire on the Forrestal. They have also questioned his "hot dog" third bombing run the mission on which he was shot down and have attacked him for "crashing" 5 planes while in the Navy. (They are including the plane on the deck of the Forrestal, the one he was shot down in, an F-4 Phantom that lost it's engine and he had to bail out, and a training accident in flight school).

That is total Bull, and if you know it.You show me where someone is blaming him for this.
If anyone has ever seen the film of the incident, read at least one book about it, and talked to anyone who was on it, there was no way that McCain was 'involved' in the fire. He was a very very lucky bystander who barely escaped with his life. Had he been about 5 feet over this conversation never would have taken place.
Not counting the Forrestal (A-7), and being shot down, losing 3 planes is still way above average for military pilots. Most of the guys I knew never lost, or damaged, one.

 

[wvrevy]

The reason that Kerry was "swiftboated" is because he made his service a central part of his campaign, after demonstrating against the war and accusing men he served with of committing war crimes. This made people who served with him very unhappy, so they went after him.

I'm sorry, but that simply isn't true. Kerry's service record and his crewmen in Vietnam all backed him up. Seriously...you can look it up. The people that were bought and paid for by the biggest Republican donor in the state of Texas didn't even serve with Kerry.

There is an effort by liberals to discredit McCain's actions in the service by blaming him for the fire on the Forrestal. They have also questioned his "hot dog" third bombing run the mission on which he was shot down and have attacked him for "crashing" 5 planes while in the Navy. (They are including the plane on the deck of the Forrestal, the one he was shot down in, an F-4 Phantom that lost it's engine and he had to bail out, and a training accident in flight school).

Honest to god, I hadn't heard any of that, nor am I interested in trying to learn more. It simply doesn't matter to me. I can imagine what the Obama campaign would do if they heard that, however: Denounce it, loudly and quite clearly. Wouldn't that be a nice change of pace from 2004?

 

[eclectics]

There is an effort by liberals to discredit McCain's actions in the service by blaming him for the fire on the Forrestal. They have also questioned his "hot dog" third bombing run the mission on which he was shot down and have attacked him for "crashing" 5 planes while in the Navy. (They are including the plane on the deck of the Forrestal, the one he was shot down in, an F-4 Phantom that lost it's engine and he had to bail out, and a training accident in flight school).

If you have proof of that, I'm sure everyone here would like to read it.

 

[afcgirl]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/03/images/20080305-4_p030508cg-0535-1-515h.jpg

Where is his flag lapel pin? It's an outrage. It's a scandal. It's emboldening the terrorists. It borders on treason that a candidate for leader of the free world would not wear his flag pin. I.... I..... I just can't speak any more I'm so upset. I'm calling Jack Kingston immediately.

Your sarcastic comment is completely missing the point of the criticism against Obama. Obama was criticized because he publicly announced that he refuses to wear the pin under any circumstances. That is very different from McCain simply not wearing the pin on one or more occasions.

 

[wvrevy]

Your sarcastic comment is completely missing the point of the criticism against Obama. Obama was criticized because he publicly announced that he refuses to wear the pin under any circumstances. That is very different from McCain simply not wearing the pin on one or more occasions.

Well...only partially true. His entire comment was that he wouldn't wear it because he felt that, since 9/11, too many people were using it as substitute for actual patriotism.

"The truth is that right after 9-11 I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9-11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.

"I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest," he said in the interview. "Instead, I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism."

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

Actually, the cons are doing a good enough job of it as it is. Again, read the post above about this guy. AND maybe something beside talking points. How, for instance, he supported Rummy 100% when the invasion started and didn't challenge him for almost 2 years.
Oh, and then there's the minister from Texas who endorsed McCain. You know, the one who calls Catholicism the "great *****." Spin that one also while you're at it.

I do not read talking points...everything I presented to refute your "argument" aboutMcCain's positions are quotes from McCain...so these are not sort of abstract ideas hanging out there. I see you have nothing to offer in terms of actual evidentiary support to refute what I've stated other than the typical "well thats talking points line" and turning the argument to something entirely different. ok then...

Shall I start bringing quotes from Obama's great mentor his minister into this debate? or perhaps from his "friendly" relationship with the terrorist Bill Ayers? if thats the direction we're we are going here...

 

[afcgirl]

Well...only partially true. His entire comment was that he wouldn't wear it because he felt that, since 9/11, too many people were using it as substitute for actual patriotism.

That doesn't make my statement only partially true, you are just giving his justification (which IMHO, was very lame).

 

[LuvDuke]

Well...only partially true. His entire comment was that he wouldn't wear it because he felt that, since 9/11, too many people were using it as substitute for actual patriotism.

Too many on the right wrap themselves in the flag while hanging off the cross. Now, with McCain's victory, they've been hung out to dry.

 

[LuvDuke]

Geez, you would think Republicans would be touting their new standard bearer, John McCain instead of worrying what Obama wears on his lapel. You would think, while they claim Democrats are firing at each other, they would show off their unity and showcase their candidate?

 

[wvrevy]

That doesn't make my statement only partially true, you are just giving his justification (which IMHO, was very lame).

It does. Your statement was phrased in a way to make it seem that he was doing something different than McCain, when in fact he views it the same way that McCain does: that being that wearing a pin is not the equivalent of being a patriot.

 

[Mugg Mann]

this is what we're going to get going forward....its all the left CAN throw at John McCain...let me tell you what we're going to hear in the general election all of which is twisting McCain positions, oversimplifying his views, or downright mischaraterizing him. Its already begun...

"John McCain wants to fight the war in Iraq for 100 year"

"John McCain wants to bomb Iran"

"John McCain supported everything Bush did"

"John McCain flip flopped on torture"

um, no, no, no, and no.....

For those who have ever wondered what a "Straw Man" argument is, this is an excellent example.

 

[CowboyCO]

Geez, you would think Republicans would be touting their new standard bearer, John McCain instead of worrying what Obama wears on his lapel. You would think, while they claim Democrats are firing at each other, they would show off their unity and showcase their candidate?

The "pin controversy" was not brought up by the GOP, but rather by the Clinton campaign.

"I won't wear that pin" (US FLAG PIN.) Because blah blah blah blah.

I don't care why he won't wear one. False patriotism? Oh yeah, that's right your wife hasn't been proud of her country until last month. I guess it would make sense you wouldn't want to wear an American pin.

It's also an interesting observation that at the exact same time period that Obama was attending "a predominantly Muslim School in Indonesia", that John McCain was in the Hanoi Hilton. Just an observation. Not drawing any conclusions about that.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

When John McCain was being pulled out of that water. Barack Obama was 6 years old,...certainly says something about their respective "experience"

No.... I think that speaks their ages.

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

For those who have ever wondered what a "Straw Man" argument is, this is an excellent example.

some of these staments have already come out of the mouth of Obama, and they are patently false.