Who decides bow or aft first when docking?

[KDG]

I have noticed sometimes a ship comes straight into port (bow first) and sometimes swings around and backs in to the dock. Who decides that- the captain or the port authorities? Just curious.

 

[ScooterScott44]

A friend of mine is a Panama Canal pilot and while some pilots have quite a bit of pull the captain is always responsible for the ship.

It is not so much a choice by one person but a consensus based on currents, weather (winds), port traffic, tides and probably quite a few other items. Since drills are often done while in port it can even be based on which areas might need access to the dock or the water.

 

[Rob1872]

My understanding is that the primary issue is if the ship needs a specific side to the dock for maintenance. The cruise ships have sufficient bow/stern thrusters, etc. that they really won't care which way they pull in. Regardless, they will have to spin the ship at some point; either before they dock or afterwards. Not sure why the previous poster would be suggesting that winds and current would be a primary factor. If I've got a 0.5 knot current pushing me in a certain direction to/from the pier, the same current will be there regardless of which side I'm mooring to. Same with how the wind will affect me; the wind doesn't react differently to the port side of the ship versus the starboard side.

 

[Rob1872]

A friend of mine is a Panama Canal pilot and while some pilots have quite a bit of pull the captain is always responsible for the ship.

Interesting that you would quote one of the two times that a captain is legally NOT responsible for his ship's navigation. During the entire canal transit, the Panama Canal pilot is the final authority for navigating the ship. (Entering and exiting dry dock is the other time that the ship's captain is not in charge; the dock master has full legal authority over the ship's maneuvering in order to safely get it on and off the blocks.)

 

[GoofyDisneyDaddy]

My understanding is that the primary issue is if the ship needs a specific side to the dock for maintenance. The cruise ships have sufficient bow/stern thrusters, etc. that they really won't care which way they pull in. Regardless, they will have to spin the ship at some point; either before they dock or afterwards. Not sure why the previous poster would be suggesting that winds and current would be a primary factor. If I've got a 0.5 knot current pushing me in a certain direction to/from the pier, the same current will be there regardless of which side I'm mooring to. Same with how the wind will affect me; the wind doesn't react differently to the port side of the ship versus the starboard side.

Actually, currents/wind is a consideration. You may have noticed that all ships pretty much always back in to Castaway Cay. This is because one ship went bow in (docked to starboard side) and couldn’t get out later that afternoon when the currents picked up and it couldn’t safely back out into those conditions. If the ship had backed in, it could have safely departed bow first.

 

[Dug720]

The last cruise on the Dream we pulled in bow first because they were running port side lifeboat drills.

 

[GPaLarry]

No matter how the docking is decided, when you have a verandah, it is always directed the opposite way from what you want.

 

[g_ppetto]

We asked on our last cruise - the answer is maintenance. Got the answer from a crew member, wasn't the bus driver.

 

[ScooterScott44]

Interesting that you would quote one of the two times that a captain is legally NOT responsible for his ship's navigation. During the entire canal transit, the Panama Canal pilot is the final authority for navigating the ship. (Entering and exiting dry dock is the other time that the ship's captain is not in charge; the dock master has full legal authority over the ship's maneuvering in order to safely get it on and off the blocks.)

We are saying the same thing. First the Panama Canal (and dry dock) pilot is in control for navigation only. Second the OTHER pilots do not have absolute control over the ship movements. They have some control but not absolute.

You mentioned in your other post that winds and currents don’t matter. I agree they are a small part. My guess is you have not been at CC when one of the ships, particularly the Dream class, has had difficulty with docking. We witnessed Captain Henri 4 hours of fighting the wind to make it into the berth but there are plenty of reports of the ship not making it into CC. The ships creates a huge profile and if the winds are against that side it creates problems.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/failed-docking-at-cc.3745825/
https://www.wdwinfo.com/disneycruis...ise-ever-had-to-miss-castaway-cay-completely/
Most ports are a little more protected and there are less issues. Also CC is somewhat unique as it belongs to DCL so there is no pilot involved.

 

[Capt_BJ]

as it belongs to DCL so there is no pilot involved.

NOT correct ... there IS a pilot .. a Bahamas Pilot ... I've been on the bridge and have met him (one). CC is actually Gorda Cay of the Bahamas .... DCL leases the property but it is STILL Bahamas territory and the law requires a pilot unless the Master IS a pilot for the port.

I'm a former ship captain (USCG former CO of VALIANT and MUNRO) and have been on the bridge of DCL at CC and had a couple of long discussions with DCL Masters 'after hours' as well as experience dealing with Pilots!

Pilots are 'advisors' ... but advisors legally required to be present. A Master/Captain ignores the Pilot with RISK!.

The pilot will discuss the mooring with a ship's Master. The Master has the final responsibility. Weather, tides, currents, FUTURE SHIP MOVEMENTS (in the harbor and probably only known to the pilot) ALL play a role as does the ship Masters maintenance and training concerns.

Bottom line is it is 'collaboration' in most cases. Also playing in is whether the ship visits the port routinely or is this a 'first time' or infrequent visit. For the DCL Nassau - CC route, the Master does this a couple of times a week so the Pilot usually just sits back (until time to collect his fee)

 

[insureman]

We are saying the same thing. First the Panama Canal (and dry dock) pilot is in control for navigation only. Second the OTHER pilots do not have absolute control over the ship movements. They have some control but not absolute.

You mentioned in your other post that winds and currents don’t matter. I agree they are a small part. My guess is you have not been at CC when one of the ships, particularly the Dream class, has had difficulty with docking. We witnessed Captain Henri 4 hours of fighting the wind to make it into the berth but there are plenty of reports of the ship not making it into CC. The ships creates a huge profile and if the winds are against that side it creates problems.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/failed-docking-at-cc.3745825/
https://www.wdwinfo.com/disneycruis...ise-ever-had-to-miss-castaway-cay-completely/
Most ports are a little more protected and there are less issues. Also CC is somewhat unique as it belongs to DCL so there is no pilot involved.

Castaway Cay does not belong DCL. It is leased, 99 years I believe , that's why there are Bahamian custom agents there.

 

[Capt_BJ]

and even IF DCL owned the property ...

I own the land my house sits on ... it is still part of the USA ... and subject to the laws of the land

want to know more?

https://www.marineinsight.com/careers-2/maritime-pilot-and-his-duties/
https://www.marineinsight.com/marin...rtance-of-pilot-master-relationship-on-ships/