White NAACP Leader Who Passed As Black

[JanaDee]

If science can come up with a way to change a man to woman and vice versa, I am certain they can come up with a way to change skin color if one wishes to transition to black or white. What's the difference? If DNA cannot be changed to alter ethnicity, then it certainly cannot be changed to alter gender, as much as society makes excuses against that fact.

And if the argument is made that ethnicity runs deeper than skin color, then I'd also make the argument that gender runs deeper than just being able to change your body parts and clothes.

Science and surgery are not the same thing.

 

[JanaDee]

Here's an interesting take on this issue:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/06/15/rachel-dolezal-naacp-race-column/71214732/

Another thing that has me wondering- Michael Jackson became "white"; he altered his skin color and traditional features to appear more Caucasian. I didn't see an outrage there. Was it because he was a mega-star? Was it because he didn't outright say he identified as white? Was it because he didn't try to lie about his background? (much harder to do when you're famous).

So, the question begs and answer- if she hadn't lied, hadn't tried to deceive and cover-up, would it then have been okay to identify as black?

There was plenty of talk about Jackson, but at that time, the internet didn't exist.

 

[Hrhpd]

If science can come up with a way to change a man to woman and vice versa, I am certain they can come up with a way to change skin color if one wishes to transition to black or white. What's the difference? If DNA cannot be changed to alter ethnicity, then it certainly cannot be changed to alter gender, as much as society makes excuses against that fact.

And if the argument is made that ethnicity runs deeper than skin color, then I'd also make the argument that gender runs deeper than just being able to change your body parts and clothes.

If she was truly transracial she wouldn't have sued Howard University for discrimination because she was white.

A person who is truly black cannot change race when it is convenient to them. If she really wanted to experience the frustration of discrimination to identify with the black community, she would not have changed back to white when it served her purposes.

 

[MickeySP]

If science can come up with a way to change a man to woman and vice versa, I am certain they can come up with a way to change skin color if one wishes to transition to black or white. What's the difference? If DNA cannot be changed to alter ethnicity, then it certainly cannot be changed to alter gender, as much as society makes excuses against that fact.

And if the argument is made that ethnicity runs deeper than skin color, then I'd also make the argument that gender runs deeper than just being able to change your body parts and clothes.

I am betting if Jenner had a chromosonal test done it would come out on the female side. Gender is not DNA it is chromosonal.
Changing your skin color does not change your ethnicity, I can dye myself green it doesn't make my a Lepechraun or a Martian.

Pre-transition - Bruce Jenner lied to everyone his entire life. He had children with 3 wives. He even admitted that he probably wasn't totally transparent with Kris Jenner. She thought he just had a cross dressing fetish. His children were absolutely affected by his lying. I also agree with a PP that said this argument is not Jenner vs. Rachel. It's about why society seems so quick to call Jenner a hero and brave and Rachel is insane. IMO, they are both off their rocker.

Here's an interesting take on this issue:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/06/15/rachel-dolezal-naacp-race-column/71214732/

Another thing that has me wondering- Michael Jackson became "white"; he altered his skin color and traditional features to appear more Caucasian. I didn't see an outrage there. Was it because he was a mega-star? Was it because he didn't outright say he identified as white? Was it because he didn't try to lie about his background? (much harder to do when you're famous).

So, the question begs and answer- if she hadn't lied, hadn't tried to deceive and cover-up, would it then have been okay to identify as black?

This is a comparison of apples & oranges and actually to me is very disengenuous to transgender people. While Jenner is a liar on some level my belief is 1) between him & his family 2) acceptance is just now becoming a real thing in wider circles. I cannot even imagine how it would have been had he won the Decathalon then announced he wwas becoming a woman. Renee Richards anyone?!?!?!

 

[erin1715]

I am betting if Jenner had a chromosonal test done it would come out on the female side. Gender is not DNA it is chromosonal.
Changing your skin color does not change your ethnicity, I can dye myself green it doesn't make my a Lepechraun or a Martian.





This is a comparison of apples & oranges and actually to me is very disengenuous to transgender people. While Jenner is a liar on some level my belief is 1) between him & his family 2) acceptance is just now becoming a real thing in wider circles. I cannot even imagine how it would have been had he won the Decathalon then announced he wwas becoming a woman. Renee Richards anyone?!?!?!

In regards to the bolded - DNA makes up a cell's chromosomes. Also, I would really LOVE to see a DNA/chromosomal test done. I'm not going to believe you just because your "betting" on it.

 

[lauradis]

Indeed, everything I've read about her indicates that she is very good at what she does, advocating for the AA community. So why did she need to lie and deceive people? That's the part I don't get. She couldn't advocate for AA community as a white person?

This is the part that makes me sick/sad, why should we care if she is white or black?

If she didn't pick black would she have gotten as high as she is?

Or is this another case of revise racism?

 

[Dizlvr]

Here's an interesting take on this issue:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/06/15/rachel-dolezal-naacp-race-column/71214732/

Another thing that has me wondering- Michael Jackson became "white"; he altered his skin color and traditional features to appear more Caucasian. I didn't see an outrage there. Was it because he was a mega-star? Was it because he didn't outright say he identified as white? Was it because he didn't try to lie about his background? (much harder to do when you're famous).

So, the question begs and answer- if she hadn't lied, hadn't tried to deceive and cover-up, would it then have been okay to identify as black?

My issue isn't that she identifies herself as being black. My issue is that she completely fabricated BEING black.

 

[Hrhpd]

In regards to the bolded - DNA makes up a cell's chromosomes. Also, I would really LOVE to see a DNA/chromosomal test done. I'm not going to believe you just because your "betting" on it.

Scientific studies are finding more and more that transgendered people have brain differences, their brains similar to the gender they are identifying with.

Science is finding that gender assignment is way more complex than whether you have xy chromosomes or xx. This is a generalization, but studies are finding that the chromosomes instruct a developing fetus to produce certain hormones that continue the development of the fetus into its assigned sex. However if there is a glitch in the hormone production in early fetal development, there may be glitches in gender assignment. Thus a male looking like a male but early hormone production telling the brain he is a female.

There are no studies as of yet that say that there can be developmental glitches that can cause brain changes to make a person think they are a different race than they are.

 

[Hrhpd]

This is the part that makes me sick/sad, why should we care if she is white or black?

If she didn't pick black would she have gotten as high as she is?

Or is this another case of revise racism?

I don't think the issue is what race she identifies with if she really does identify with one race or another.

Unfortunately, Dolezal has shown that she identifies with the race that suits her needs the best, suing Howard University when it suits her to be white, and being black when it suits her to get a job. That is not identifying with a race, that is conning people.

 

[Wishing on a star]

The human brain is a huge and complex mystery.

There are people who have suffered some kind of brain trauma, like an accident or life threatening incident during a surgery, and have come-to speaking a very heavy and very very true foreign accent.

But, in the end, they are NOT that nationality/race/ethnicity.

This woman is bona-fide insane.
Criminally insane.
There is simply no justification here, at all.

 

[lauradis]

I don't the issue is what race she identifies with if she really does identify with one race or another.

Unfortunately, Dolezal has shown that she identifies with the race that suits her needs the best, suing Howard University when it suits her to be white, and being black when it suits her to get a job. That is not identifying with a race, that is conning people.

I agree with you. There is some mental illness going on with her. Still she did some good work.

 

[MickeySP]

In regards to the bolded - DNA makes up a cell's chromosomes. Also, I would really LOVE to see a DNA/chromosomal test done. I'm not going to believe you just because your "betting" on it.

didn't ask you to. You still can't change your ethnicity which is the point - you is what you is!

 

[Hrhpd]

I agree with you. There is some mental illness going on with her. Still she did some good work.

I agree that she did some good work.
However, some of that is suspect too. Fabricating 8 hate crimes is inciting reverse hatred. That is not helpful at all.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Here we go...

From Ebony

"Dolezal’s deception, which should be credited to both decent quality hair weaves and the privilege Black folks often afford to light-skinned women (even those that are intellectually and physically mediocre,) is at once an insult to Black women everywhere and a gift to the comedy gods. Yet, Dave Chappelle, known for his brilliant insight on race and racism, has stated that he’s holding off on joking about the now-former NAACP chapter president: “I’m sure her rebuttal will be illuminating. Like, once she’s had time to process it and kind of get her wind back and get her message together.” In a rare interview, he offers a take on Dolezal that is not sympathetic, but thoughtful and nuanced in ways we rarely see when the conversation is centered on an actual Black woman.

Worse than Chappelle’s "gotta hear both sides"-esque commentary, however, have been comments from folks on social media who think that “the work” Dolezal has done affords her some sort of pass or greater consideration. This is despite the fact that she has allegedly lived in Blackface for years and has occupied some of the few spaces of leadership afforded to Black people (NAACP chapter president, Africana studies professor.) I do not believe for a minute that this sort of consideration would be afforded to a White man who did what this woman has. Yet folks like Keri Hilson, and a lot of Twitter’s infamous “Hotep brothers” felt the need to suggest we "thank" her, or at least wait until we hear her side.

What else do we need to hear? We watched her tell a reporter she was “Black” and family has made it pretty obvious that she’s been lying, not suffering from some sort of race-based psychosis.

The most painful conversation I have observed on the whole mess took place on Melissa Harris Perry this weekend. I expected the host, who I consider to be a personal hero and important champion of Black women, to be personally offended by the existence of Dolezal—someone who has dressed herself up to physically resemble Harris Perry and occupy a space in the academy, something many actual Black women struggle to do. Yet, our girl wants to at least consider the possibility of “racial mis-assignment at birth,” and I’m pretty unable to cope with that.

The handwringing, the nuance, the idea that we should be grateful that this woman wanted to occupy space in our community, the inability to hold White women accountable for their racist misdeeds…it’s enough to make an actual Black woman mad. Rachel Dolezal is not an ally; she is not a champion of Blackness. And, reinvented as a light-skinned, light-eyed Black woman with a Howard degree, she was able to gain more access to Black cultural spaces than she would as a White lady who simply likes Black culture and Black men—and those women get a LOT of access.

Dolezal parodied Black womanhood for her own benefit, while allegedly telling other Whites they didn’t have space in the Black Lives Matter movement and, according a few folks claiming to be former students, had a curious way of addressing Black females and pale-skinned Latinos in her classes. Pretending to have our experiences and using them for her personal/professional gain is not “doing the work” and as far as I am concerned, it is unforgiveable anti-Blackness.

White women are human and fallible. They are not standard bearers for femininity, they are not in need of our protection and many of them have willingly participated in the systems of racism that lead to educational disenfranchisement of "unteachable" Black children and overpolicing of Black "superpredators." Our torrid love affair with Whiteness and White supremacy often make it hard for us to hold White folks accountable, but I’d be willing to bet you that the brothers hollering about Rachel Dolezal doing work wouldn’t be as easy on Ronald Dolezal showing up in an Afro- toupee. And considering that mentally-ill Black women are routinely sentenced to prison and discarded by society, I’m disinterested in a lengthy psychoanalysis of Dolezal that can be used to give her a pass. She will be just fine, wherever she imagines herself next.

Do not forget the loudmouthed, bigoted woman who refused to allow a group of teens to enjoy a day in the sun without racialized violence, and do not forget how Rachel Dolezal's deception took space from Black women who need it. Do not keep up the White Female Fragility Complex by silence or complicity."

Read more at EBONY http://www.ebony.com/news-views/last-rachel-dolezal-thinkpiece-ever-065#ixzz3dFbZkgIW

 

[AddictedtoDoleWhip]

I remember people being outraged when Michael started looking more and more Caucasian. They said he was bleaching his skin. Michael denied it and did an interview where he claimed he has that skin condition that famous super model has where the colour fade to white in blotches and he said he used makeup to even it out. His diehard fans believed him but no one else did and it was just one more of the many weird things about MJ.

The skin disorder is called Vitiligo and it was proven that he had that condition after he died because there had to be an autopsy report for his trial. I know quite a few people with Vitiligo, and it does make different areas of your skin lighter than the rest. He did not bleach his skin, he did not become white and never claimed to be. And btw, I'm not a diehard MJ fan, I just find it funny that people want to believe he did not have a skin condition when you could clearly see he did in his way earlier years.

 

[DizBelle]

Here we go...

From Ebony

"Dolezal’s deception, which should be credited to both decent quality hair weaves and the privilege Black folks often afford to light-skinned women (even those that are intellectually and physically mediocre,) is at once an insult to Black women everywhere and a gift to the comedy gods. Yet, Dave Chappelle, known for his brilliant insight on race and racism, has stated that he’s holding off on joking about the now-former NAACP chapter president: “I’m sure her rebuttal will be illuminating. Like, once she’s had time to process it and kind of get her wind back and get her message together.” In a rare interview, he offers a take on Dolezal that is not sympathetic, but thoughtful and nuanced in ways we rarely see when the conversation is centered on an actual Black woman.

Worse than Chappelle’s "gotta hear both sides"-esque commentary, however, have been comments from folks on social media who think that “the work” Dolezal has done affords her some sort of pass or greater consideration. This is despite the fact that she has allegedly lived in Blackface for years and has occupied some of the few spaces of leadership afforded to Black people (NAACP chapter president, Africana studies professor.) I do not believe for a minute that this sort of consideration would be afforded to a White man who did what this woman has. Yet folks like Keri Hilson, and a lot of Twitter’s infamous “Hotep brothers” felt the need to suggest we "thank" her, or at least wait until we hear her side.

What else do we need to hear? We watched her tell a reporter she was “Black” and family has made it pretty obvious that she’s been lying, not suffering from some sort of race-based psychosis.

The most painful conversation I have observed on the whole mess took place on Melissa Harris Perry this weekend. I expected the host, who I consider to be a personal hero and important champion of Black women, to be personally offended by the existence of Dolezal—someone who has dressed herself up to physically resemble Harris Perry and occupy a space in the academy, something many actual Black women struggle to do. Yet, our girl wants to at least consider the possibility of “racial mis-assignment at birth,” and I’m pretty unable to cope with that.

The handwringing, the nuance, the idea that we should be grateful that this woman wanted to occupy space in our community, the inability to hold White women accountable for their racist misdeeds…it’s enough to make an actual Black woman mad. Rachel Dolezal is not an ally; she is not a champion of Blackness. And, reinvented as a light-skinned, light-eyed Black woman with a Howard degree, she was able to gain more access to Black cultural spaces than she would as a White lady who simply likes Black culture and Black men—and those women get a LOT of access.

Dolezal parodied Black womanhood for her own benefit, while allegedly telling other Whites they didn’t have space in the Black Lives Matter movement and, according a few folks claiming to be former students, had a curious way of addressing Black females and pale-skinned Latinos in her classes. Pretending to have our experiences and using them for her personal/professional gain is not “doing the work” and as far as I am concerned, it is unforgiveable anti-Blackness.

White women are human and fallible. They are not standard bearers for femininity, they are not in need of our protection and many of them have willingly participated in the systems of racism that lead to educational disenfranchisement of "unteachable" Black children and overpolicing of Black "superpredators." Our torrid love affair with Whiteness and White supremacy often make it hard for us to hold White folks accountable, but I’d be willing to bet you that the brothers hollering about Rachel Dolezal doing work wouldn’t be as easy on Ronald Dolezal showing up in an Afro- toupee. And considering that mentally-ill Black women are routinely sentenced to prison and discarded by society, I’m disinterested in a lengthy psychoanalysis of Dolezal that can be used to give her a pass. She will be just fine, wherever she imagines herself next.

Do not forget the loudmouthed, bigoted woman who refused to allow a group of teens to enjoy a day in the sun without racialized violence, and do not forget how Rachel Dolezal's deception took space from Black women who need it. Do not keep up the White Female Fragility Complex by silence or complicity."

Read more at EBONY http://www.ebony.com/news-views/last-rachel-dolezal-thinkpiece-ever-065#ixzz3dFbZkgIW

Wow.... does this whole diatribe sound racist to anyone else?

 

[Jedana]

My issue isn't that she identifies herself as being black. My issue is that she completely fabricated BEING black.

Bingo.
I don't care if she thinks she's a man, black, a cat or a push up bra.
Just don't lie and say "Yes, I'm a cat" when you're not----you can say "I feel as thought I'm a cat; I identify with being a cat."
Don't take money for being a push up bra if you're not. Don't take a job where the main reason you're hired is because you are a push up bra.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Wow.... does this whole diatribe sound racist to anyone else?

How so?

 

[Wishing on a star]

I identify as a billionaire, but those jerks at the bank keep denying my true self

Funny!

 

[lizabu]

The skin disorder is called Vitiligo and it was proven that he had that condition after he died because there had to be an autopsy report for his trial. I know quite a few people with Vitiligo, and it does make different areas of your skin lighter than the rest. He did not bleach his skin, he did not become white and never claimed to be. And btw, I'm not a diehard MJ fan, I just find it funny that people want to believe he did not have a skin condition when you could clearly see he did in his way earlier years.

Thank you. That is what it is called. I've known a couple people with it too but it was more like a white blotch here and there rather than the entire face, neck, chest etc and whatever else Michael Jackson showed in photos and videos. I was always of a non-opinion on what was going on with him...however like I said, in the court of public opinion it seemed as though the public aside from MJ fans did not believe him when he said he had vitiligo.

I've thought about the idea a little more since I initially responded and wonder if the poster I quoted may have had something there. People are fairly upset that a white women passed as black. But if it were the reverse and it were a black woman passing as white would people be quite as upset? I really don't know. It's a complicated issue.