Which DSLR

[DVC Jen]

Why not rise above the petty debates of the commoners and just start with a

? Seriously, if aren't willing to drop $32,000 to see if you are interested in photography, you probably aren't.

 

[KrazyPete]

I just switched from a Canon Rebel 2000 (35mm) to my first DSLR the Nikon D80.

I can't believe how much my old Canon feels like a toy next to the Nikon. You can read online reviews all day long but you simply have to go to a camera store and play with them both. If everything else were equal, The ergonomics of the Nikon alone would blow the Canon out of the water. And, everything else is NOT equal.

Believe me, I wanted the Canon XTI. I didn't want to switch brands. I ended up paying more money for the Nikon and I'm not looking back. In fact, I think I'm becoming a zealot.

 

[jann1033]

Why not rise above the petty debates of the commoners and just start with a

? Seriously, if aren't willing to drop $32,000 to see if you are interested in photography, you probably aren't.

so mark, are you implying if you buy this it might not be one of those "it's the photographer not the camera" type situations ?

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Direct comparisons between specific Nikon and Canon models can be difficult because the model lines don't really match very well. They sort of compare like this (prices from B&H):

Nikon D40/D50 ($450)
Canon Rebel XTi ($700)
Nikon D80 ($930)
Canon 30D ($1060)
Nikon D200 ($1,340)

Canon 5D ($2,500)

Canon 1D M2n ($3,500)
Nikon D2Xs ($4,250)

Canon 1Ds M2 ($6,800)

So comparing a D80 to a Rebel is sort of an apples to oranges comparison. Then again, the same goes for comparing a 30D to a D80 or a D200 to a 30D. Throw Pentax into the mix and it gets even more confusing.

If you look purely at the camera bodies and compare features and prices, the Pentax models look really good. Their biggest downsides are that they are far less established in the DSLR market and that they haven't made inroads into the pro market. That means that there is greater risk that they'll fail in the market and you'll be left orphaned (any coming from Minolta will know that feeling). It also means that if you want to move up to professional bodies and lenses, you'll hit a wall much earlier with Pentax.

There's not nearly as much difference between Nikon and Canon as many camp loyalists would lead you to believe. Probably the biggest is that Nikon has committed to smaller sensor sizes and Canon has committed to a range of sensor sizes. If you want to shoot with a larger sensor, you really don't have a choice but to go with Canon. On the flip side, Nikon is putting out more high end glass designed for small sensors while Canon is sticking with full frame lenses for their high end stuff. So if you want to shoot with a smaller sensor and use glass designed for it, you're better off with Nikon.

There are other differences, but they aren't quite so fundamental.

I would stay away from the Olympus and Sony (formerly Minolta) bodies. They might be OK for what they do, but the model line risks are enormous. Keeping up in the DSLR world is much, much harder for a company than keeping up in the film world was. It's unlikely that either of those brands will survive in that space. You'll wind up with orphaned gear after a while and if you want a new camera, you'll have to replace your lenses as well.

 

[Groucho]

If you look purely at the camera bodies and compare features and prices, the Pentax models look really good. Their biggest downsides are that they are far less established in the DSLR market and that they haven't made inroads into the pro market. That means that there is greater risk that they'll fail in the market and you'll be left orphaned (any coming from Minolta will know that feeling). It also means that if you want to move up to professional bodies and lenses, you'll hit a wall much earlier with Pentax.

I still have to disagree with this.

An amateur photographer is extremely unlikely to need anything more than a K10D, and they have more cameras coming. For lenses, the quality of the Pentax lenses can favorably compare with anything out there, especially once you get in to the "Limited" line.

If someone suddenly decides that they need all "pro" gear - chances are that their existing camera and lenses are going to be unsuitable anyway, so switching brands won't be very painful - and you'll have a lower investment, ESPECIALLY if you start looking at IS lenses for the C/N series. One of the high-end ones will pay for a K10D and a couple lenses.

And again, Pentax has more primes than anyone, and for quality, they'll beat any zooms out there.

 

[KrazyPete]

So comparing a D80 to a Rebel is sort of an apples to oranges comparison.

The XTi and the D80 are the two company's 10mp offerings. I think that's why they frequently get matched up in side-by-side reviews. I agree with you though. it's not an apples to apples comparison.

When I was shopping for a DSLR these are the two that it came down to for me.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I still have to disagree with this.

That's why it is so good to have you here. A variety of opinions is a very good thing to have.

If someone suddenly decides that they need all "pro" gear - chances are that their existing camera and lenses are going to be unsuitable anyway

This is quite possibly the case when someone decides to take up a career in photography. For some, however, photography becomes and increasingly hobby and they slowly evolve towards better gear. I have mostly pro-gear now and did so by steadily changing out consumer pieces for pro pieces.

I will admit that this consideration is pretty small. Very few Rebel XTi buyers are going to wind up with 1 series cameras. For those on that path, however, I still believe that extra breadth and depth Canon and Nikon's offerings is a benefit.

Even for those that aren't interested in buying high end gear, the ability to borrow or rent is another factor that should be considered. I often tell people that are struggling to choose between Canon and Nikon to pick the one that their most hard-core photographer friend uses so that they can borrow their cool stuff when needed.

 

[foto202]

The Canon/Nikon debate has been going on forever. You will find it's pretty well even. However if you going to get "into" photography it better to go with either Canon/Nikon because if you ever need/want to sell your equipment, there is a huge used market for both and because of their name regonition they hold their value pretty well. I have seen that it is much easier to resell used Canon/Nikon over the other brands, espically in the digital age.

 

[Master Mason]

People can argue brand loyalties till they are blue in the face....

Statistically, Nikon and Canon lead the pack. They both have things they do better than others and things they don't do as well. Pentax is making some good products for those that want an alternative at a good price. I agree with Mark that Olympus and Sony are wild cards right now.

One thing on the lens/camera combo that Mark was talking about for Nikon, is they have commited to the sensor size. Canon is making full size sensors, so if they released a bunch of lenses based on smaller sensors, and the full sensors become the rage, then they have cost their consumers a bunch of money. I know, I for one, look at the 5D and say that's a possiblity, so If I bought a bunch of lenses with the smaller opening, I wouldn't be able to use them later...

 

[handicap18]

I agree with Marks statements. Though I think comparing a Nikon model to a Canon model is more like comparing a Fuji apple to a Gala apple. Some like sweet some like tart, but they're apples. You really can't go wrong with either Nikon or Canon or Pentax for that matter. Pentax been very impressive lately with their line of dSLR's and give the Nikon and Canon entry level bodies a run for their money.

So for me I've found it best to give the latest entry level body for each of the 3 companies as a starting place for someone to look. They are each fairly comparable, yet are different in size and will give a different feel to each persons hands. What is to small for me is perfect for someone else. In the end that is one of the biggest factors in purchase. If your not comfortable holding the camera, then you probably wont use it a lot.

I also think that the majority of people coming here probably wont be looking down the road enough or would even ever need to consider a camera like Marks or a high end Nikon like the D2Xs.

This forum is probably one of the better ones for initial information. As much as each of us love our brand we do have the respect for the other brands. That says a lot about ourselves and each other. We have a good core group of regulars who come across as knowledgable and willing to help in many different situations. Fortunately with photography a lot of the "behind the sceens" stuff is the same for all brands. An f/2.8 lens is an f/2.8. Light is light.

Ok I'm rambling and heading off topic somewhat so I'll leave it at that and get back to the Patriots game. I think I made my point.

 

[Groucho]

That's why it is so good to have you here. A variety of opinions is a very good thing to have.

Why thank you, I appreciate that. I enjoy being here and try to be fair in my comments on matters like this.

This is quite possibly the case when someone decides to take up a career in photography. For some, however, photography becomes and increasingly hobby and they slowly evolve towards better gear. I have mostly pro-gear now and did so by steadily changing out consumer pieces for pro pieces.

I will admit that this consideration is pretty small. Very few Rebel XTi buyers are going to wind up with 1 series cameras. For those on that path, however, I still believe that extra breadth and depth Canon and Nikon's offerings is a benefit.

Well, I think there are enough other variables that make it a fairly even playing field (or even tilted towards Pentax, as I unsurprisingly feel. )

Two big ones:
1. Primes. Pentax has a line-up of primes that can't be beat. And as anyone who has used primes versus zooms can tell you, primes can almost always beat zooms for image quality, as well as being relatively small and fast.

2. Image stabilization. A C/N owner who decides that they want image stabilization is looking at a very significant investment in cost to do so, and they'll only get it on one single lens, and they better hope that they don't end up not liking the lens for whatever reason, or not using it much. The Pentax owner either already has it or can upgrade for a reasonable price. I could buy an actual K100D camera for, I believe, less than the cheapest C/N IS lens, still have my existing camera body, and have IS on every lens I own and every lens I ever put on the camera.

Those are important features, IMHO - the first to the more serious photographer who is interested in image quality (let's face it - a prime is built for image quality, an 18-200mm or 28-300mm is built for convenience) and the latter to just about everyone. IS is really the key technical differentiator right now, I feel - other than that, most DSLRs don't have anything significantly different than the competition.

Even for those that aren't interested in buying high end gear, the ability to borrow or rent is another factor that should be considered. I often tell people that are struggling to choose between Canon and Nikon to pick the one that their most hard-core photographer friend uses so that they can borrow their cool stuff when needed.

This is a very good point, if you know someone who'd be willing to loan you their good lens when you ask, that skews things dramatically, just like having an existing investment in lenses does.