When in laws cause problems

[OceanAnnie]

It takes time.

Now that mom had put the burden on your dh, he is going to lose patience a lot and possibly will "up the ante" so to speak on YOU allowing BIL to move in trying to get you to cave. Just basic psychology.

Next order of business now or later will be "serious desperation" on the BIL's part coupled with MIL's pleas to allow him to move in with you.

A nice throw back on MIL is to say he needs to move in with you....lol. I would love to deliver that line.

Bottom line, you are dealing with someone who is manipulative and it takes some savvy and canned lines to navigate it. If you get good at it it becomes comical.

Reading up on manipulative people is probably something worthwhile for you to do. It is pretty textbook.

The thing about people who are manipulative is that they are easy to manipulate back. They are so "stuck" in their pattern that when you lob a ball of remanipulation they are a bit shocked and thrown off balance.

Good Luck, hang in there. Just expect it to escalate because that is textbook on what will happen next.

I agree. And good luck is right. Your BIL is skilled at manipulation and your MIL is too. You will have to be on your toes because it does appear the end game for them is your house. You did very well fending him off this time. Sounds like the relationships are so deeply entrenched you'll still have your work cut out for you. It's a special, skilled person that can handle manipulative people without losing it and lashing back at unrealistic expectations and the guilt trips. It can do a number on you, that's for sure. Stay strong.

Reading about how to navigate the waters with manipulative people and being ready for the other shoe(s) to drop will be so important for the future.

I wish you and your family well.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

Op I'm sorry you're going through all of this.
Last night I was up til 1am reading every page. (My alarm buzzes at 5:05am)
I was rooting for you the whole time and couldn't go to bed til I found out about how your trip went.

I just have to laugh at how your BIL complained about the apartment windows and internet. Of course it's not HIS fault, it's the apartment's fault that it just won't work out for him.

I just wanted to add there is NO WAY in a million years I'd let that BIL ever be around your young girls alone in the house or even just 1 night and with you home. I'm no expert but there HAS to be some mental illness there and God knows what he could do to them if he had access to their bedrooms. If he could easily manipulate adults; a child (especially a compassionate girl) would be like putty in his hands.
Don't be naïve.

Long story short, I work in breast imaging and one of our biopsy patients works in Phila. Child Protective Services. She was telling me how parents worry about "stranger danger" when they really should be worried about uncles, grandfathers, neighbors, etc. since this is how most cases of child molestation occur. She said family parties, BBQs are all "opportunities for access" to a sicko. Parents are often wrapped up with entertaining their guests.

Again, I'm no expert and don't know your BIL and what he's capable of but I would do everything in my power to limit him even laying eyes on them.

jmho. Maybe a crazy one but that's what first entered my mind. If they were 18 & 21 I don't think I'd worry so much.

 

[Grmnshplvr]

Op I'm sorry you're going through all of this.
Last night I was up til 1am reading every page. (My alarm buzzes at 5:05am)
I was rooting for you the whole time and couldn't go to bed til I found out about how your trip went.

I just have to laugh at how your BIL complained about the apartment windows and internet. Of course it's not HIS fault, it's the apartment's fault that it just won't work out for him.

I just wanted to add there is NO WAY in a million years I'd let that BIL ever be around your young girls alone in the house or even just 1 night and with you home. I'm no expert but there HAS to be some mental illness there and God knows what he could do to them if he had access to their bedrooms. If he could easily manipulate adults; a child (especially a compassionate girl) would be like putty in his hands.
Don't be naïve.

Long story short, I work in breast imaging and one of our biopsy patients works in Phila. Child Protective Services. She was telling me how parents worry about "stranger danger" when they really should be worried about uncles, grandfathers, neighbors, etc. since this is how most cases of child molestation occur. She said family parties, BBQs are all "opportunities for access" to a sicko. Parents are often wrapped up with entertaining their guests.

Again, I'm no expert and don't know your BIL and what he's capable of but I would do everything in my power to limit him even laying eyes on them.

jmho. Maybe a crazy one but that's what first entered my mind. If they were 18 & 21 I don't think I'd worry so much.

This was absolutely a worry of mine. Especially since my one daughter is 14, she is no longer a knees and elbows kind of kid. Truth is while I can read BIL very well, I don't know him or trust him. Hell, I don't really trust anyone but yes this was one of my concerns as well.

 

[nanienamou]

Op I'm sorry you're going through all of this.

I just wanted to add there is NO WAY in a million years I'd let that BIL ever be around your young girls alone in the house or even just 1 night and with you home. I'm no expert but there HAS to be some mental illness there and God knows what he could do to them if he had access to their bedrooms. If he could easily manipulate adults; a child (especially a compassionate girl) would be like putty in his hands.
Don't be naïve.

Please do not link mental illness with sexual abuse. While your concerns are valid, it is false to link both and it adds to the stigma that people struggling with mental health issues face each day. Statistically, people with mental illness are mostly victim than perpetrator. His brother-in-law is a manipulator and that has nothing to do with mental illness. I should add that people should stop trying to diagnose mental illnesses based on some posts on a public board. It's just plain wrong.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

This was absolutely a worry of mine. Especially since my one daughter is 14, she is no longer a knees and elbows kind of kid. Truth is while I can read BIL very well, I don't know him or trust him. Hell, I don't really trust anyone but yes this was one of my concerns as well.

I don't know if I am reading this correctly.

Are you saying that your BIL sexually abusing your child is a "worry" of yours, and "one of your concerns"?

For the love of God, if that is the case, are you seriously still in contact with this man? Is your husband continuing to help someone that you have "worries" and "concerns" about being around your child?

Is this all for real? I just can't believe anyone would even associate with a person that they have sexual abuse concerns about.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

I think my husband is agreeing with me only to keep the peace, I do think if I were ok with it BIL would already be living with us.

And you have "concerns" and "worries" about him sexually abusing your daughter?

Is your husband also mentally ill? I am not being mean in asking this question. I am serious. Something is wrong with this situation.

 

[Grmnshplvr]

And you have "concerns" and "worries" about him sexually abusing your daughter?

Is your husband also mentally ill? I am not being mean in asking this question. I am serious. Something is wrong with this situation.

No my husband is not mentally ill. As I stated, I don't know BIL that much. I have worries and concerns about any man I don't know.

 

[Grmnshplvr]

I don't know if I am reading this correctly.

Are you saying that your BIL sexually abusing your child is a "worry" of yours, and "one of your concerns"?

For the love of God, if that is the case, are you seriously still in contact with this man? Is your husband continuing to help someone that you have "worries" and "concerns" about being around your child?

Is this all for real? I just can't believe anyone would even associate with a person that they have sexual abuse concerns about.

No. You are not reading this correctly. My concern is only because I don't know him that well. I have no reason to believe he has abused children or would. My husband trusts him 100%, he knows him. I do not.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

My concern is only because I don't know him that well. I have no reason to believe he has abused children or would. My husband trusts him 100%, he knows him. I do not.

Well, then have a talk with your husband. He can choose his brother or his wife and kids. I am sorry, but if you don't trust someone and are concerned that they will sexually abuse your kids, that is a MAJOR issue. That man can't be in your house. Ever.

Most people don't look at every stranger as a potential sexual abuser. But your BIL is not a stranger. He is your husband's brother. You know him well enough to view an apartment with him.

You went as far as saying that your daughter is maturing and is no longer "all knees and elbows" and that concerns you when your BIL is around.

No. Just no. This is getting a bit weird.

 

[robinb]

No my husband is not mentally ill. As I stated, I don't know BIL that much. I have worries and concerns about any man I don't know.

That was how I read it: that you know you don't like him but you also you don't know him well enough to know what else he may be capable of doing. Since you don't like him, it's easy to attribute the worst to him. FWIW, I don't really see a connection between being a couch surfer and a child abuser.

 

[Grmnshplvr]

Well, then have a talk with your husband. He can choose his brother or his wife and kids. I am sorry, but if you don't trust someone and are concerned that they will sexually abuse your kids, that is a MAJOR issue. That man can't be in your house. Ever.

Most people don't look at every stranger as a potential sexual abuser. But your BIL is not a stranger. He is your husband's brother. You know him well enough to view an apartment with him.

You went as far as saying that your daughter is maturing and is no longer "all knees and elbows" and that concerns you when your BIL is around.

No. Just no. This is getting a bit weird.

1 in 4 girls will be sexually assaulted before they turn 18 in this country. Most by someone they know. Having a man move in to your home that you don't know that well would be a concern with anyone with daughters. It is not a concern of my husbands, because he does know him and trust him.

I didn't view an apartment with him, I rode along with my husband because we were going to the same neighborhood which is an hour away from our house, and DH had to help me clean MILs house. I would consider BIL a stranger. I don't talk to him, associate with him, celebrate holidays with him etc. In the combined 25 birthdays our daughters have had he's been to exactly 1.

I just don't want him living with us. It would make all of us uncomfortable.

He isn't moving in.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

Yesterday he TOLD me he was thinking about house sitting for us while we are in Disney at the end of the month. He totally put me on the spot in front of their family and mine at our daughters birthday party.

He was at your daughter's birthday party and your mind has worries and concerns that he may be a sexual abuser? He is comfortable to tell you that he is going to stay at your house, yet you don't know him very well? And your husband is ok with this? He still caters to this man? You have a marriage problem.

1 in 4 girls will be sexually assaulted before they turn 18 in this country. Most by someone they know. Having a man move in to your home that you don't know that well would be a concern with anyone with daughters. It is not a concern of my husbands, because he does know him and trust him.

I usually trust the people that my husband trusts. And vice-versa. Especially when it comes to people we expose our children to.

But, I do feel YOU are the right one here. I feel YOU know what your gut tells you. I guess the frustrating part for me would be that your husband trusts someone that you consider to be a potential threat to your daughters.

Best of luck.

 

[Dawnlight]

Most people don't look at every stranger as a potential sexual abuser.

What world do you live in? It can't possibly be the same one I live in, as it seems EVERYONE is concerned with people being potential abusers. Look at schools and their procedures for volunteering parents, look at camps, sports, scouts, and any other activity that centers around children- all of them are hyper-sensitive to anyone and everyone being a potential abuser.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

That was how I read it: that you know you don't like him but you also you don't know him well enough to know what else he may be capable of doing. Since you don't like him, it's easy to attribute the worst to him. FWIW, I don't really see a connection between being a couch surfer and a child abuser.

There are people I don't like. I don't worry or have concerns about them being a potential sexual abuser to my children, though. That is just a huge leap that would involve some kind of gut feeling.

And the minute I had "that feeling" the man in question would never, ever step foot in my home again no matter what my husband said or felt. If you have "concerns" or "worries" over anyone sexually violating your children, they can't be around said children. Period.

 

[Grmnshplvr]

He was at your daughter's birthday party and your mind has worries and concerns that he may be a sexual abuser? He is comfortable to tell you that he is going to stay at your house, yet you don't know him very well? And your husband is ok with this? He still caters to this man? You have a marriage problem.



I usually trust the people that my husband trusts. And vice-versa. Especially when it comes to people we expose our children to.

But, I do feel YOU are the right one here. I feel YOU know what your gut tells you. I guess the frustrating part for me would be that your husband trusts someone that you consider to be a potential threat to your daughters.

Best of luck.

You think this man has boundaries? He wouldn't hesitate to ask YOU if he could sleep on your couch and you don't know the man from joe bag of donuts.

The sexual abuse comment is being taken too far. I am absolutely fine with him coming for birthday parties. I have no reason to believe he is a threat, I am just not comfortable with him living with us. Being comfortable with someone coming for cake, compared to living with you are two different things. I would not be comfortable with any man living with us obviously other than my husband.

Do I have issues with this particular subject? yes. I do. Does it affect who I allow to be alone with my children? Absolutely.

My husband trusts everyone, he sees the good in everybody. I do not.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

What world do you live in? It can't possibly be the same one I live in, as it seems EVERYONE is concerned with people being potential abusers. Look at schools and their procedures for volunteering parents, look at camps, sports, scouts, and any other activity that centers around children- all of them are hyper-sensitive to anyone and everyone being a potential abuser.

I really don't look at every man (or woman) as a potential abuser. I just don't. And certainly not someone my husband trusts.

But, the OP is adding a different aspect to this story now. And, if she has "worries" or "concerns" about this man now that her daughter is "not all knees and elbows", she has thought it out quite thoroughly.

Surely she shared her concerns with her husband. And he continues to associate with a man that his wife "worries" about being around their daughters.

Just plain weird to me.

 

[Dawnlight]

I really don't look at every man (or woman) as a potential abuser. I just don't. And certainly not someone my husband trusts.

But, the OP is adding a different aspect to this story now. And, if she has "worries" or "concerns" about this man now that her daughter is "not all knees and elbows", she has thought it out quite thoroughly.

Surely she shared her concerns with her husband. And he continues to associate with a man that his wife "worries" about being around their daughters.

Just plain weird to me.

I think you read way too much into her concerns and worries. It's a worry that many people have in general, not always aimed at a specific individual. I read it as a general concern, not necessarily due to anything that would cause her to believe that BIL, in particular, was capable of that.

 

[Grmnshplvr]

I think you read way too much into her concerns and worries. It's a worry that many people have in general, not always aimed at a specific individual. I read it as a general concern, not necessarily due to anything that would cause her to believe that BIL, in particular, was capable of that.

Thank you. The man would not be stepping foot in my house if I truly believed he is a sex offender. I just have a general distrust for men. I am more on edge when it comes to this particular topic than my husband. He just generally trusts people. I have very good reasons not to and having two daughters probably doesn't help those fears.

 

[HM]

FWIW, I don't really see a connection between being a couch surfer and a child abuser.

I know. How did this even get into the conversation?

 

[Grmnshplvr]

I know. How did this even get into the conversation?

someone reading too much into a simple comment and running with it!