When in laws cause problems

oh PLEASE DO NOT GO THIS ROUTE. this guy won't stay anywhere he has to pay for, and even the places he's not being charged for (mom's) he won't stay at-he WANTS the op's home/lifestyle on the op's dime. the money for housing would be money in the toilet-first off he's probably got no decent credit or rental history (couch surfing, mooching and multiple jobs don't garner high credit scores) to get a place so he'll hit up the op's husband to co-sign and then they will be on the hook for all the unpaid rent, damages and legal proceedings that follow.

not trying to be a 'negative nelly' but a family member tried this w/my brother-THANK GOD they didn't associate their name w/his on the rental agreement. he NEVER paid rent after the family member paid the first month's payment. ran up tens of thousands in rent and utility bills while the landlord worked to evict him (he knew how to play free legal services just like he played certain family/friends). I don't even want to think what kind of damage the slob did to the place.


He has no credit, no work history, and no stable living arrangements he'd never get approved for an apartment in his own name and no he wouldn't pay for it - he never has, any apartment he has ever had ended in eviction and legal battles for the landlords.

MIL does not have high speed internet (the horror!!!!) and that is one of his biggest complaints...of course the logical thing to do would be to get it and pay for it himself...but again, I'm a cold hearted crazy person, what do I know.
 
not being sexist w/this statement BUT I strongly suspect the bil is likely also using the "P" card (and not talking about the op's actual cat) w/his brother. combining the "I'm a victim you as my only hero can save" line along w/ the "some man you are-you're letting your wife make the call-how whipped is THAT" is a powerful one two punch that the saavy couch surfing moocher knows well how to employ w/no regard to the marital damage it creates for others.


I dont know if BIL has come right out and said it, but yes I suspect this is part of my husbands issue. he doesn't want to come across as being weak.
 
OH MY GOD. My husband just responded to my "I already said no" and said you're being a blanking blank, I'm letting him stay. He has never in our all years of marriage talked to me like this.
Whoa. I am so sorry you are being put in this position. :(
 
The idea that the brothers grew up together in a difficult situation and therefore are close and want to have one another's backs is a nice idea. But BIL clearly has no interest in making sure his brother is happy. He's been told NO a hundred times. He's continued begging DH. I find it extremely difficult to believe that he is unaware of the strain this is putting on you and your marriage. But he's not concerned about his brother's marriage or his sister-in-law's feelings. All he's concerned about is getting what he wants, when he wants it, regardless of what it costs anyone else financially or emotionally.

He is not homeless. He will not die on the curb. He wants a vacation in your house and, like a child, if he's told no he'll throw a hissy-fit and sleep in his car. If he is pushing this hard just to stay there for a week, I see no reason to think he's not going to push even harder to stay for years.

You have a few days before vacation. If I were you, I'd try very hard to find a counselor who might be able to talk you two through this crisis. No one can fix a marriage in a session or two, but someone may be able to help you through the current disagreement.

You're worried about your home. You're worried about your pets. You're worried about your marriage. No one should be treating you this way. Talk to DH. But push aside the anger and let the fear, the disappointment, the pain and the stress show. He needs to understand that you need to be taken care of as much as his brother does. Another thing that maybe a counselor can help him see.
 

It really upsets me to know I've worked my butt off for our things, our home, our utilities etc...and this man just gets to swoop in and use it all ...for free??

I agree with your position, but arguments like the above DO make you seem very petty so I hope you don't go down that road with your husband. Because using that logic that you work for your home and utilities and no one gets to swoop in and use them, that sounds no one should ever host any guests in their home at all. I can see you have a long history of emotions and hurts and resentments here, but it won't do good to get so worked up you are resorting to arguments like that one.
 
10 pages of info. shows exactly how devastating a mark a master manipulator leaves on everyone who gets too close.

OP there are so many serious issues that are coming to the forefront with extended family and more importantly with your husband. This is not so much about BIL, who make no mistake is a master manipulator, but about the effects of not knowing how to deal in a healthy way with a master manipulator.

BIL is 39 yrs old and has set-up the life he is now 'comfortable' living. Masters at manipulation play-off the emotions of usually decent people who 'feel bad' for the person who 'just cant seem to get it together.' Good people care about others ~ master manipulators do not care about the people they manipulate and do not deserve the gut wrenching emotional efforts good people go through.

My concerns, in a general way anytime I hear these similar stories, are that people need to do all they can not to engage manipulators ~ you will never be a match for their ability to twist & distort life. They are incapable of being responsible for themselves as they have rarely had consequences to answer for as those around them enable their behaviors ~rescuing them doing them no favors.

Why would someone who has set their life up so they can be taken care of one day decide to care for themselves ~ what is their incentive? It's a lot less work if YOU do it for me.

From what you have posted OP it is clear there are deep family of origin issues relating to manipulation and enabling behaviors ~ therapy can help with that but we can't force others to change or get help. At some point the decision needs to be made ~ will I save myself and allow the naturally occurring consequences that come from manipulators actions (or lack there of) to perhaps force a turning point for an adult individual.
It is often not easy to step away from self pitying master manipulators, to allow them to take charge of their own lives and learn to become responsible, but it is necessary.
 
If you want to save your marriage, yes it's unreasonable.

Please don't let a bunch of strangers on the DIS goad you into saying or doing something that will make this situation worse than it already is. {{hugs}}

I agree with this.

A lot of people are saying "this is the hill I'd die on." But, really? What does that mean to you? How far are you willing to take this? Up to divorce?

Your DH is not being nice & not taking your feelings into consideration & going back on what's he said. He's choosing his brother over you & your kids. I get that. I'd be ticked. I'd also feel incredibly hurt, especially after he called me a name. You absolutely need to discuss how he's treating you & making you feel, & you deserve an apology.

But, sometimes, you just need to take a step back & take a deep breath & realize, it is what it is. You can't change anyone else's actions and reactions - only your actions & reactions.

Your DH is not taking your feelings about this into consideration, but are you considering his feelings? Sometimes, it isn't about who's right & who's wrong. It just is - the situation is just the way it is. As much as your house is your house, it's your DH's house as well. You're partners. You're on the same team (even if doesn't feel like it right now.) He gets a say. You can't force him to say no to his brother. You can tell him how you feel. You can give him advice. You can tell him you strongly wish he'd consider what you're saying & how this situation affects you. But, at the end of the day, he has just as much right to let his brother stay as you do for saying he can't stay. It's his house too. So where does that leave you?

You can't change or cancel your vacation.
You don't want your kids to be sad while they're on vacation.

For the record, I think you're right, & I'm on your side. But I think it's a lot easier for us here on the internet to say, "I'd say no! There's NO WAY I'd let him stay at my house. I'd make my DH stay at home too!" than it is to actually be in the situation & be living it.

I know me, & I know I'd probably cave for the sake of my marriage & for the sake of the family vacation. However, I also know DH & I know that he wouldn't put me in this situation & he's never cursed at me either.

So I guess I don't really have any good advice... just don't let what is said here get in your head & end up making a bad situation worse.

The idea that the brothers grew up together in a difficult situation and therefore are close and want to have one another's backs is a nice idea. But BIL clearly has no interest in making sure his brother is happy. He's been told NO a hundred times. He's continued begging DH. I find it extremely difficult to believe that he is unaware of the strain this is putting on you and your marriage. But he's not concerned about his brother's marriage or his sister-in-law's feelings. All he's concerned about is getting what he wants, when he wants it, regardless of what it costs anyone else financially or emotionally.

He is not homeless. He will not die on the curb. He wants a vacation in your house and, like a child, if he's told no he'll throw a hissy-fit and sleep in his car. If he is pushing this hard just to stay there for a week, I see no reason to think he's not going to push even harder to stay for years.

You have a few days before vacation. If I were you, I'd try very hard to find a counselor who might be able to talk you two through this crisis. No one can fix a marriage in a session or two, but someone may be able to help you through the current disagreement.

You're worried about your home. You're worried about your pets. You're worried about your marriage. No one should be treating you this way. Talk to DH. But push aside the anger and let the fear, the disappointment, the pain and the stress show. He needs to understand that you need to be taken care of as much as his brother does. Another thing that maybe a counselor can help him see.

I also agree w/ this as well.

If you do decide to not push it any further & your brother-in-law ends up staying at your house, maybe you can try to make counseling one of your "conditions" - "I'll agree to this if you agree to counseling" kinda thing.
 
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If staying in my marriage meant that I am in a house with, and paying the expenses of, somebody like this BIL and his girlfriend.
If these kind of screwed up and manipulative moochers are invited into my marriage bed... And I am paying for this...
YES, my marriage could possibly be on the line.
No question.
(don't assume that those who are telling the OP to stand firm and fight this battle are not doing this without a lot of experience and fore-thought)

While the OP is very emotionally vested and involved, and might be having a hard time dealing with this in a calm and effective way... (yes, there have been 'words' and arguments) I do feel like, partially due to this thread, she is seeing things in a slightly different way, and is at least trying to understand her husband's issues here.

I do not feel in any way that she is just not seeing her husband's side, and not considering his feelings.
(and in fact, believe that any such statement is way, way, off.)

IMHO, he can feel the way he feels, and I can have tons of empathy, but that does not change the fact that these people would simply not be allowed into my home.

IMHO, that is a reasonable boundary.

And, I would not, knowing what they know about these people and their history, along with the husband's emotional situation, ever, recommend letting these people into the home, and then hoping to be able to, hopefully, thru counseling, deal with it later. Once you mix oil and water, it is mighty, mighty, hard to undue the deed. Not to even mention that this could possibly be mixing fuel and fire.

 
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I just text my husband and gave in. I can't do this any more. My sister is going to stop by and check on things (mostly my cat) while I am gone and that helps a little. I have a lump in my throat as I type this. I'm really upset that I was blindsided into this by someone that is suppose to put me and our marriage first. Something I have always done for him.

when i get back I have every intention of telling his brother and him what I think of both of them...for the sake of my children's trip and my mom and aunts I will suck it up buttercup for today.
 
I agree with this.

A lot of people are saying "this is the hill I'd die on." But, really? What does that mean to you? How far are you willing to take this? Up to divorce?

Your DH is not being nice & not taking your feelings into consideration & going back on what's he said. He's choosing his brother over you & your kids. I get that. I'd be ticked. I'd also feel incredibly hurt, especially after he called me a name. You absolutely need to discuss how he's treating you & making you feel, & you deserve an apology.

But, sometimes, you just need to take a step back & take a deep breath & realize, it is what it is. You can't change anyone else's actions and reactions - only your actions & reactions.

Your DH is not taking your feelings about this into consideration, but are you considering his feelings? Sometimes, it isn't about who's right & who's wrong. It just is - the situation is just the way it is. As much as your house is your house, it's your DH's house as well. You're partners. You're on the same team (even if doesn't feel like it right now.) He gets a say. You can't force him to say no to his brother. You can tell him how you feel. You can give him advice. You can tell him you strongly wish he'd consider what you're saying & how this situation affects you. But, at the end of the day, he has just as much right to let his brother stay as you do for saying he can't stay. It's his house too. So where does that leave you?

You can't change or cancel your vacation.
You don't want your kids to be sad while they're on vacation.

For the record, I think you're right, & I'm on your side. But I think it's a lot easier for us here on the internet to say, "I'd say no! There's NO WAY I'd let him stay at my house. I'd make my DH stay at home too!" than it is to actually be in the situation & be living it.

I know me, & I know I'd probably cave for the sake of my marriage & for the sake of the family vacation. However, I also know DH & I know that he wouldn't put me in this situation & he's never cursed at me either.

So I guess I don't really have any good advice... just don't let what is said here get in your head & end up making a bad situation worse.



I also agree w/ this as well.

If you do decide to not push it any further & your brother-in-law ends up staying at your house, maybe you can try to make counseling one of your "conditions" - "I'll agree to this if you agree to counseling" kinda thing.


i agree with mostly everything you're saying but do you think my husband has the right to tell someone they can have ...relations...on our bed?
 
I just text my husband and gave in. I can't do this any more. My sister is going to stop by and check on things (mostly my cat) while I am gone and that helps a little. I have a lump in my throat as I type this. I'm really upset that I was blindsided into this by someone that is suppose to put me and our marriage first. Something I have always done for him.

when i get back I have every intention of telling his brother and him what I think of both of them...for the sake of my children's trip and my mom and aunts I will suck it up buttercup for today.

do what's best for you and the kids. protect yourself though-you said you were worried bil would steal and hock items. any jewelry, kids video game consuls/games and other easily taken items might be better stored at your sister's. likewise-just make sure anything w/your social security number (AND KID's), credit card numbers...are out of the house. I'm sad to say that I wouldn't put it past your bil to grab what info he could to try to gain lines of credit (happened to my dh, came close w/my kids but fortunately we caught on before the family member was successful).
 
I truly feel for you OP. Any chance they can sleep anywhere besides your bed? One of the kid's rooms maybe? That way your cat can stay in your room.
 
do what's best for you and the kids. protect yourself though-you said you were worried bil would steal and hock items. any jewelry, kids video game consuls/games and other easily taken items might be better stored at your sister's. likewise-just make sure anything w/your social security number (AND KID's), credit card numbers...are out of the house. I'm sad to say that I wouldn't put it past your bil to grab what info he could to try to gain lines of credit (happened to my dh, came close w/my kids but fortunately we caught on before the family member was successful).


Thank you for mentioning this because I wouldn't have even thought about it. I dont have much of anything of value really but our social security numbers are accessible so I will be storing them in a safe spot before we go.
 
Once the name calling started, I would have said "oh really we are going there" and probably would have called my DH and BIL some "fancy" names too.

But you probably received better advice from others. I could not do what you are doing.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you can have a nice trip
 
I truly feel for you OP. Any chance they can sleep anywhere besides your bed? One of the kid's rooms maybe? That way your cat can stay in your room.


I do have an air mattress but I'm not stupid I know he will be in our bed. The only two rooms with air conditioning are my room and the girls room. I'd rather him be in my bed than my couch or my kids beds. I'm not sure why, the idea of him on the couch grosses me out even more.
 
Before caving completely, I would suggest to your husband that the brother can stay on certain conditions:

All valuables leave the house and go to a safe location.
Your bedroom is locked as well as all the kids bedrooms.
Brother is completely gone along with all traces before you get back.
And the biggest, that the two of you pursue couples counseling so you can be a team again. I fear if you don't the resentment and anger will grow and eat away at your marriage.

Honestly, I would be so angry right now, I would not be able to speak to my husband if he treated me like this.
 

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