When does Disney stop letting you enter attraction lines?

[whiporee]

To answer both your questions, I don't know, but my first response would be to say they are trying to be nice and maximize everyone's experience. Pushing people out of the park goes against those ideas.

I know WDW has always had a policy of letting the last guest in line ride. But I also know that some people strategize to get into lines at the last possible second with the intent of being at the park after it closes. And I know some people wander and browse the stores despite the fact that operating hours are over. I understand WDW does not actively discourage this. But if they wanted to stay open later, they'd just stay open later.

And I also know that WDW has a tendency to identify behaviors like this and eventually look to curtail them. It's what happened with the disabled program. You could make the case it was the cause for EMM to be born. It could be the reason EMH's have been reduced by an hour at night because they know they have to filter late riders out.

Or not. I don't know, but I find it a valuable discussion.

 

[Cinderella94]

To answer both your questions, I don't know, but my first response would be to say they are trying to be nice and maximize everyone's experience. Pushing people out of the park goes against those ideas.

Sorry, but I disagree. Money. As long as people are using that time to buy enough and they're making enough money that they still profit after paying the employees and keeping the lights on for a little while after the official closing time, it's worth it to them. Disney is not letting anyone do something that Disney didn't intend to happen.

 

[mrzrich]

To answer both your questions, I don't know, but my first response would be to say they are trying to be nice and maximize everyone's experience. Pushing people out of the park goes against those ideas.

I know WDW has always had a policy of letting the last guest in line ride. But I also know that some people strategize to get into lines at the last possible second with the intent of being at the park after it closes. And I know some people wander and browse the stores despite the fact that operating hours are over. I understand WDW does not actively discourage this. But if they wanted to stay open later, they'd just stay open later.

And I also know that WDW has a tendency to identify behaviors like this and eventually look to curtail them. It's what happened with the disabled program. You could make the case it was the cause for EMM to be born. It could be the reason EMH's have been reduced by an hour at night because they know they have to filter late riders out.

Or not. I don't know, but I find it a valuable discussion.

Huh? If they wanted diners out of the restaurants at 9, ther wouldn't make ADR's past 8 pm, let alone 8:55. They expect diners to need at least an hour to eat. Then they have to close out the registers and clean up.

It isn't about guests behaving badly as you imply by comparing it to GAC abuse.

It is about Disney knowing how to make money.

As stated before by people who work retail, there is closing time and there is end of shift. Those two times are not necessarily the same.

Disney does close some shops and kiosks before park closing. They have no issue closing something and telling a guest "sorry we are closed". Main Street in particular is designed to invite people in as they approach the exit. The doors are all wide open. Inviting smells are artificially pumped out of the confectionary shop.

If they wanted people to leave quicker, they would shut the doors. The shoppers inside would be hovered over, and no one else would be allowed in.

Disney is paying their staff to be there. They would not put up with an added expense if they weren't making a TON OF MONEY in that last hour.

 

[AngiTN]

To answer both your questions, I don't know, but my first response would be to say they are trying to be nice and maximize everyone's experience. Pushing people out of the park goes against those ideas.

I know WDW has always had a policy of letting the last guest in line ride. But I also know that some people strategize to get into lines at the last possible second with the intent of being at the park after it closes. And I know some people wander and browse the stores despite the fact that operating hours are over. I understand WDW does not actively discourage this. But if they wanted to stay open later, they'd just stay open later.

And I also know that WDW has a tendency to identify behaviors like this and eventually look to curtail them. It's what happened with the disabled program. You could make the case it was the cause for EMM to be born. It could be the reason EMH's have been reduced by an hour at night because they know they have to filter late riders out.

Or not. I don't know, but I find it a valuable discussion.

No, there is no similarities between abusing GAC and shopping for an hour after the official park close. One is skirting the rules. The other is not. I can't explain why they put a closing time of X on the park and then allow people to remain but they do. Those who do are not breaking any rules. The stores are officially open 1 hour, at least, past posting closing. They do this specifically to allow guests to shop as they leave. Again, this is on purpose. Those who are shopping are not abusing anything.

And Disney seats guests for dinner right up to closing. This is their choice. A guest who books an ADR at closing is not abusing anything. It's actually very smart use of time, if you are ok eating that late. You aren't loosing any time in the park and it's no different than booking an ADR before the park opens. Don't see anyone saying people who do that are abusing Disney's generosity.

I believe Disney sets their closing times early (like at Epcot for instance) so that guests can enjoy shopping and dining without taking away from their park hours. They could opt to close at 10:00, or 11:00 and sho everyone out at once but instead they opt to close at 9:00 and offer their guests time to eat or shop, if they want, still ending up with a closing time of 10:00 or 11:00. But with fewer guests to sho out. Same end results and the make more money from those shopping/eating.

But in no way are those guests abusing anything or going to be the cause of Disney doing away with allowing it

 

[AngiTN]

It could be the reason EMH's have been reduced by an hour at night because they know they have to filter late riders out.

Also, the guests that linger on rides, dining and shopping is not just an EMH thing. That's every day. It's probably not going on during EMH nearly as long as it does on a regular park hour day. EMH was reduced because of the very reason folks here went. No one was there. It wasn't cost effective.

I'll go back to their doing the Kiss Goodnight, not once but twice most nights. They don't have to do that. People stay because they do it. There is no reason at all for them to do a Kiss Goodnight other than for the guests there. If they truly wanted the guests out they wouldn't put on a small show for those guests remaining. They do nothing and use CM to direct guests to the front instead of encouraging them to linger by offering a show.

 

[Missyrose]

They can't clean up and get closed until people leave. Get out and let them do their job. Just because they don't sweep you out doesn't mean that they don't want you too. It's not just those that are still there, the crew that comes in and does the necessary maintenance and overnight set up can't start in earnest until everyone is out of the park.

Guests don't dictate anything to Disney. Disney keeps Main Street shops and restaurants open an hour past closing, they also keep a fully staffed band of Photopass photographers out for most of that hour and, like @AngiTN said, Disney runs the Kiss Goodnight an hour and again at 90 minutes past closing. What part of ANY of that indicates Disney doesn't want guests in the park?

But using this logic explain to me why they take ADR's 5 minutes before a park closes?

Bingo, we've had late ADRs and MK and ended up finishing dinner after the Kiss Goodnight at MK and more than 90 minutes after closing at Epcot. CMs said this was the normal schedule of their day.

To answer both your questions, I don't know, but my first response would be to say they are trying to be nice and maximize everyone's experience. Pushing people out of the park goes against those ideas.

I know WDW has always had a policy of letting the last guest in line ride. But I also know that some people strategize to get into lines at the last possible second with the intent of being at the park after it closes. And I know some people wander and browse the stores despite the fact that operating hours are over. I understand WDW does not actively discourage this. But if they wanted to stay open later, they'd just stay open later.

And I also know that WDW has a tendency to identify behaviors like this and eventually look to curtail them. It's what happened with the disabled program. You could make the case it was the cause for EMM to be born. It could be the reason EMH's have been reduced by an hour at night because they know they have to filter late riders out.

Or not. I don't know, but I find it a valuable discussion.

This is nothing like abusing a GAC. Disney has never had a rule that says guests must immediately exit the park as soon as the park "closes." Willfully scamming a system is very different from enjoying what Disney is offering.

Also, the guests that linger on rides, dining and shopping is not just an EMH thing. That's every day. It's probably not going on during EMH nearly as long as it does on a regular park hour day. EMH was reduced because of the very reason folks here went. No one was there. It wasn't cost effective.

I'll go back to their doing the Kiss Goodnight, not once but twice most nights. They don't have to do that. People stay because they do it. There is no reason at all for them to do a Kiss Goodnight other than for the guests there. If they truly wanted the guests out they wouldn't put on a small show for those guests remaining. They do nothing and use CM to direct guests to the front instead of encouraging them to linger by offering a show.

THIS. Disney cut EMH because the third hour was (more times than not) a ghost town. While that is a fantastic experience for guests, it isn't very cost effective for Disney to keep the park fully staffed for that last hour.

Also, it's not like people are hanging out deep in the parks after park close. The sweeping of guests starts fairly soon after park closing to funnel guests to the park's main thoroughfare. The cleaning and maintenance of the park starts at the back and moves forward, so Main Street (for example) is the last to be cleaned for the night. Again, no guests are getting in the way of workers, Disney designed a system that allows everything to happen exactly on schedule.

 

[Nancyg56]

They can't clean up and get closed until people leave. Get out and let them do their job. Just because they don't sweep you out doesn't mean that they don't want you too. It's not just those that are still there, the crew that comes in and does the necessary maintenance and overnight set up can't start in earnest until everyone is out of the park.

One thing that Disney know how to do is how to make money. Most folks hold their shopping until the end of their day, and Disney knows this. There would not be one door open if management felt that they made no money. I don't understand why you think that guests who are doing exactly what DIsney intended they do are taking advantage of the folks working in the Main Street shops. Those folks are scheduled their hours, and those hours include after park close. Just try getting a burger after closing time and see how that works for you. It is next to impossible to walk in at park close and dine in a CS restaurant.

This is why we can't have nice things. People push the limits as far as they can be pushed, and then it becomes standard, and then it becomes strategized for, and eventually WDW ends up feeling as though they have to take something away in order to operate the way they feel they need to.

Of course you CAN get into line up until they say you can't. I do think the question of SHOULD is reasonable to ask -- should one, knowing the published hours of an establishment, actively work to stay in the establishment beyond those published hours? I'm of the opinion that getting into a line knowing and planning that you'll be there beyond park hours is an abuse of a kindness WDW shows it's guest by not rushing them out. I'm part of a very small minority, I know, but I'm tossing it out just to let the opposite opinion be heard.

But in this case your opinion is based on your own thoughts of how businesses should be run, not by how they actually do run. If Disney did not find it to be viable to allow guests in line up to park close, that practice would stop. If Disney felt that guests were not making enough purchases to justify paying cast members to remain in shops after the posted closing of the park those doors would close.

If you take the time to look around you at park close, you would see that the park is still going strong. People are shopping, photographers are still snapping pictures, and the lights are all still on. In my opinion, this is when the attractions are no longer the draw, and when Disney gets down to making its last run at the cash.

To answer both your questions, I don't know, but my first response would be to say they are trying to be nice and maximize everyone's experience. Pushing people out of the park goes against those ideas.

I know WDW has always had a policy of letting the last guest in line ride. But I also know that some people strategize to get into lines at the last possible second with the intent of being at the park after it closes. And I know some people wander and browse the stores despite the fact that operating hours are over. I understand WDW does not actively discourage this. But if they wanted to stay open later, they'd just stay open later.

And I also know that WDW has a tendency to identify behaviors like this and eventually look to curtail them. It's what happened with the disabled program. You could make the case it was the cause for EMM to be born. It could be the reason EMH's have been reduced by an hour at night because they know they have to filter late riders out.

Or not. I don't know, but I find it a valuable discussion.

DIsney is NOT nice, DIsney is a business, and one thing we all have seen is that as a business Disney didentifues behavior that is not financially viable and stops it. They know how to manage those last minute strategizers, and honestly, they want them. Can you imagine what the exodus woudl be like if the park had a hard close at the posted time? No. Disney has learned how to manage the guest behavior, and if you stay late one night you will see the CM's in action. The CS restaurants in the furthest reaches of the parks are closed, so no access there. CM's gradually push guests toward the exits, where they have the opportunity to wander into the shops that remain open. Transportation would be a mess if this did not happen. I think it is brilliant, to be honest. I knwo I make most of my purchases as I am leaving the park, and that does not matter if I leave before the afternoon parade or after Wishes. I am not alone in this practice.

 

[biondagirl]

Be aware of GROSSLY inflated wait times posted near closing. They'll post 45 minutes when the wait is actually 10 minutes as a tactic to discourage you from getting in the line

That's very interesting. I never gave that much thought on our past trips. I will definitely keep that in mind in August.

 

[BudgieMama]

I'll go back to their doing the Kiss Goodnight, not once but twice most nights. They don't have to do that. People stay because they do it. There is no reason at all for them to do a Kiss Goodnight other than for the guests there. If they truly wanted the guests out they wouldn't put on a small show for those guests remaining. They do nothing and use CM to direct guests to the front instead of encouraging them to linger by offering a show.

We had a late ride on SDMT one evening and stayed back for the Kiss Goodnight last summer (having not seen it before), and asked a PhotoPass CM before getting into their line if we were OK or if she had to go - I think they ran them early back in August, because we weren't expecting it until 12.30am, but I think the first Kiss Goodnight appeared at 12.15am). She cheerfully welcomed us and told us she was due to be here for a while yet and we were no bother by wanting a picture. She even took extra time with us because she wanted to wait for a particular colour wash on the castle for our photo. We then strolled down Main Street and went to Main Street Confectionery, to grab a snack for the bus queue, and again, were welcomed enthusiastically in through the doors when we enquired to a nearby CM if they were closing up, or if we had time to pop in and choose a snack. At no point did the CM give the impression they needed us to leave immediately (in stark contrast to my experience in themes parks here in the UK, where I've been in a queue for 20 minutes only to have them dump the queue as soon as the park shut). Even heading for the buses, we saw one waiting and started to hurry, and a CM told us not to run, and shouted down to another CM to ask the bus to wait for us. Never have I been rushed!

 

[Missyrose]

We had a late ride on SDMT one evening and stayed back for the Kiss Goodnight last summer (having not seen it before), and asked a PhotoPass CM before getting into their line if we were OK or if she had to go - I think they ran them early back in August, because we weren't expecting it until 12.30am, but I think the first Kiss Goodnight appeared at 12.15am). She cheerfully welcomed us and told us she was due to be here for a while yet and we were no bother by wanting a picture. She even took extra time with us because she wanted to wait for a particular colour wash on the castle for our photo. We then strolled down Main Street and went to Main Street Confectionery, to grab a snack for the bus queue, and again, were welcomed enthusiastically in through the doors when we enquired to a nearby CM if they were closing up, or if we had time to pop in and choose a snack. At no point did the CM give the impression they needed us to leave immediately (in stark contrast to my experience in themes parks here in the UK, where I've been in a queue for 20 minutes only to have them dump the queue as soon as the park shut). Even heading for the buses, we saw one waiting and started to hurry, and a CM told us not to run, and shouted down to another CM to ask the bus to wait for us. Never have I been rushed!

It's my favorite time of day at MK. The CMs are so wonderful and you don't feel like you're being clobbered by other guests.

 

[scrapquitler]

This is why we can't have nice things. People push the limits as far as they can be pushed, and then it becomes standard, and then it becomes strategized for, and eventually WDW ends up feeling as though they have to take something away in order to operate the way they feel they need to.

Of course you CAN get into line up until they say you can't. I do think the question of SHOULD is reasonable to ask -- should one, knowing the published hours of an establishment, actively work to stay in the establishment beyond those published hours? I'm of the opinion that getting into a line knowing and planning that you'll be there beyond park hours is an abuse of a kindness WDW shows it's guest by not rushing them out. I'm part of a very small minority, I know, but I'm tossing it out just to let the opposite opinion be heard.

By that logic, if you go to a restaurant, and the restaurant closes at 10, do you think that means you should arrive early enough so that you meal is served, eaten, paid for, table cleared, dishes done before 10? No. The restaurant closes at 10 means the kitchen stops serving at 10. But if you ordered at 9:55, they are still going to cook your meal and serve it to you. They plan for that, they expect it.

 

[Nancyg56]

By that logic, if you go to a restaurant, and the restaurant closes at 10, do you think that means you should arrive early enough so that you meal is served, eaten, paid for, table cleared, dishes done before 10? No. The restaurant closes at 10 means the kitchen stops serving at 10. But if you ordered at 9:55, they are still going to cook your meal and serve it to you. They plan for that, they expect it.

The problem with the logic some folks present here is that they look at WDW parks as their neighborhood grocery store. Closing time is closing time. The doors lock, you finish your shopping if you are in the store and you gallop out while a store employee gaurds teh door, unlocking it for every shoppper as they leave, and then locking it up again.

WDW is not a grocery store or a bank with a hard opening time and closing time, all in and out according to the clock. The logistics of an enterprise the size of WDW trying to run like a store in a mall is unthinkable. If the current system was not cost effective and did nto run according to a plan in place to manage crowds exiting and transportation concerns, it would change.

 

[HopperFan]

The problem with the logic some folks present here is that they look at WDW parks as their neighborhood grocery store. Closing time is closing time. The doors lock, you finish your shopping if you are in the store and you gallop out while a store employee gaurds teh door, unlocking it for every shoppper as they leave, and then locking it up again.

WDW is not a grocery store or a bank with a hard opening time and closing time, all in and out according to the clock. The logistics of an enterprise the size of WDW trying to run like a store in a mall is unthinkable. If the current system was not cost effective and did nto run according to a plan in place to manage crowds exiting and transportation concerns, it would change.

There is no way to do a hard close, get all the folks out of the gate and then ......... transportation nightmare like we've never seen. The trickle effect while getting folks to spend their money is a perfect solution.

 

[disnut8]

When we are staying onsite (very often in over 60 trips), we will, on one night, stay for Illuminations, the only nighttime show we will watch. It's just my husband and me and we watch from the back of Epcot, away from Future World. The show starts at 9, ends around 9:20 or so, we need a bathroom break on the way out and there are a lot of people moving quickly towards the exit. My husband and I are not fast movers so we just walk, take our bathroom break, and then head for the exit. We are not purposely dawdling but just doing our normal walk style. When we get to the bus stop, there is usually a long line but the hustle bustle people and "have to leave NOW" people have already boarded fully loaded buses and probably had to stand. We just join the line in the back, get on the next available bus, have a seat and are back to the resort before 10:30.

And along the way in Epcot, there are plenty of Cast Members who are waving goodbye with their Mickey hands. Truly, a very nice way to end a day. None of the "GET OUT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!" stuff.

 

[robinb]

There is no way to do a hard close, get all the folks out of the gate and then ......... transportation nightmare like we've never seen. The trickle effect while getting folks to spend their money is a perfect solution.

I've been at the MK for a hard close the day that Hurricane Charley was arriving. Transportation was a bit of a problem but not crazy because the park was not that busy. Most sane people stayed home that day, LOL.

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

That's very interesting. I never gave that much thought on our past trips. I will definitely keep that in mind in August.

You can generally expect the posted wait times to be about 4x the actual wait during the last hour or so of operation. This is definitely intentional and has been going on for years.

We first read about Line Stacking and other line manipulation techniques in the 1999 Unofficial Guide.

 

[MoonFaerie]

Look at how quickly Disney emptied the parks for a non scheduled closing on 9/11. They could and would get guests out faster after closing if they wanted to.

 

[Lothlórien]

That's not correct. Do none of the Disney regulars on here not know where those times come from? The cast member at the beginning of the line scans a card (usually red) on lanyard and and gives it to a guest with instructions to give it to the cast member at the end of the line. The 2nd cast member scans it and the wait time pops up on the screen at the beginning of the ride (and in places like hub at Epcot where it shows current wait times).

So...at 11:50 pm, if it's saying the Space Mountain line is 120 minutes, that is how long it took someone getting in line at 9:50 to make it through. The times posted are only as accurate as the latest time they sent a card on a lanyard through...and they have no reason to mess with that within the last hour of park closing, it will be inaccurate as soon as posted.

Most of us are fully aware of how it works. However, the part you misunderstanding is that the system is manipulated. That is what the previous members are commenting about. I can validate first-hand.

Having said that, often the inflated times also come from CMs not scanning the card to the reader (happens quite a bit at the end of the night) and guests pocketing them, which happens A LOT.

 

[Lothlórien]

You can generally expect the posted wait times to be about 4x the actual wait during the last hour or so of operation. This is definitely intentional and has been going on for years.

We first read about Line Stacking and other line manipulation techniques in the 1999 Unofficial Guide.

It is true, mostly for headliners.

 

[Lothlórien]

This is why we can't have nice things. People push the limits as far as they can be pushed, and then it becomes standard, and then it becomes strategized for, and eventually WDW ends up feeling as though they have to take something away in order to operate the way they feel they need to.

Of course you CAN get into line up until they say you can't. I do think the question of SHOULD is reasonable to ask -- should one, knowing the published hours of an establishment, actively work to stay in the establishment beyond those published hours? I'm of the opinion that getting into a line knowing and planning that you'll be there beyond park hours is an abuse of a kindness WDW shows it's guest by not rushing them out. I'm part of a very small minority, I know, but I'm tossing it out just to let the opposite opinion be heard.

This is just plain silly.

Guests are not being rude and taking advantage of anybody. Nobody is pushing the limits. This is how Disney runs their business. You are not showing them any special courtesy and being a kind minority. LOL

Disney has the expectation that guests will shop at closing, linger to take photos at closing, schedule meals late, etc. Their employees are scheduled based upon this.
Disney is fully aware of what they are doing when a park closes at 9 and CMs are scheduled to come into work at 5 or 6.

Why do you think they have dining reservations available up to 5 minutes before park closing? Surely you do not think Disney expects guests to have a meal in a matter of 5 minutes?