When do you start to save money?

[Goofgoof]

Exactly. Also, don't forget there are many other options besides just owning DVC. The off property timeshare options is actually a better choice for many, including many that would never consider it.

We did look at off site. We stayed at Hilton Grand Vacation Club Next to Sea World twice before we bought at BLT but we really wanted to be able to walk or monorail to 2 parks and have all of the Disney bells and whistles. We really liked the Hilton place but location won out.

I may have overlooked the point rental aspect in terms of cost.

 

[ELMC]

...There is a way to save money but most people won't because they will go longer or stay in larger rooms....

This is a huge hidden cost of DVC and it mirrors the way casinos get you to gamble your money. A lot of people wouldn't randomly walk up to a table and place down a $100 bill and have a couple of cards dealt to them. If you lost, you would be upset that you lost $100. It is commonplace, however, to place a little black clay chip on the table and get some cards dealt to you. If you lose, it's no big deal...it's not money. It's only a little clay chip.

The psychology at work with DVC is the same. When people purchase they (hopefully) analyze their predicted vacation needs and base their decisions on those needs. But once the contract is paid for and booking rooms is all about points, the game changes. All of a sudden that week long stay at a BLT Grand Villa that you would never see yourself paying cash for is not such a bad idea, because it's only 648 points. "I can swing that," you tell yourself. What you don't realize is that the cash equivalent of that stay (assuming your next best use for the points is to rent them at $11 per point) is $7,128. People who would normally balk at writing a check for seven grrr would probably very easily book that room for 648 points, despite the fact that at the time of the decision making purchase, staying at a Grand Villa was never an option.

This is just one more of the many ways that it is difficult to save money with DVC. But maybe that's ok.

 

[Dean]

We did look at off site. We stayed at Hilton Grand Vacation Club Next to Sea World twice before we bought at BLT but we really wanted to be able to walk or monorail to 2 parks and have all of the Disney bells and whistles. We really liked the Hilton place but location won out.

I may have overlooked the point rental aspect in terms of cost.

There are many angels and variations that don't get looked at for many. Even just experiencing the Hilton system on a one time basis is not enough to make a truly informed decision as there are some many variables and options.

 

[crisi]

Another one is how you budget for a trip when you use a timeshare. This isn't true for everyone, but this is how the psychology plays out.

DVC members have no hotel bill when they are checking out. Their dues and any loan payments are often a monthly operational cost, paid automatically so they don't even see it. So the psychology for the trip is that the room is "free" - and the budget for the trip excludes the room costs - you almost never see anyone costing out their DVC trip and including original purchase price, and only a few people even include dues - and that's over on the budget board, where people think about and challenge these things. So you used to spend $1500 on a room - and now you have spend $1500 on nicer meals, drinks, Cirque tickets, Mickey antenna toppers and pins. Maybe you are disciplined and you are getting a deal on your room - a DVC studio vs. a room at the Contemporary, so you are really saving yourself $500 on the room - and you've still spent $1000 more than you would have without DVC.

 

[JimMIA]

In 29 trips by three families over a seven-year period, I have never felt we saved money with DVC.

I felt we enhanced the quality of our vacations, but at least in our case, there is no doubt that we spent MORE money on WDW vacations using DVC than we had prior.

In fact, for their WDW trips, my adult daughters families (co-owners of the account) have stayed offsite the last several trips. The only places they've used DVC the last 3-4 years have been VB and HHI.

And with the exploding prices at WDW, they have pretty much stopped going. It's not that the kids don't love Disney, but they're getting a little older and their interests have changed. This summer, for example, our big vacation is to the Great Smokys.

 

[DougEMG]

Another one is how you budget for a trip when you use a timeshare. This isn't true for everyone, but this is how the psychology plays out.

DVC members have no hotel bill when they are checking out. Their dues and any loan payments are often a monthly operational cost, paid automatically so they don't even see it. So the psychology for the trip is that the room is "free" - and the budget for the trip excludes the room costs - you almost never see anyone costing out their DVC trip and including original purchase price, and only a few people even include dues - and that's over on the budget board, where people think about and challenge these things. So you used to spend $1500 on a room - and now you have spend $1500 on nicer meals, drinks, Cirque tickets, Mickey antenna toppers and pins. Maybe you are disciplined and you are getting a deal on your room - a DVC studio vs. a room at the Contemporary, so you are really saving yourself $500 on the room - and you've still spent $1000 more than you would have without DVC.

I agree with you that I think that is how most people treat/use their DVC.

Not us though. We have an annual vacation budget and when we use our points that is considered a $10/point charge against the vacation budget. And yes, we do record all our expenses and incomes in MS Money.

 

[Dean]

I agree with you that I think that is how most people treat/use their DVC.

Not us though. We have an annual vacation budget and when we use our points that is considered a $10/point charge against the vacation budget. And yes, we do record all our expenses and incomes in MS Money.

I think there are very few people who fit into the situation you describe but even then, would you make the same trips as often if you were only paying cash? I think for most in your situation the answer is still no.

 

[Goofgoof]

Another one is how you budget for a trip when you use a timeshare. This isn't true for everyone, but this is how the psychology plays out.

DVC members have no hotel bill when they are checking out. Their dues and any loan payments are often a monthly operational cost, paid automatically so they don't even see it. So the psychology for the trip is that the room is "free" - and the budget for the trip excludes the room costs - you almost never see anyone costing out their DVC trip and including original purchase price, and only a few people even include dues - and that's over on the budget board, where people think about and challenge these things. So you used to spend $1500 on a room - and now you have spend $1500 on nicer meals, drinks, Cirque tickets, Mickey antenna toppers and pins. Maybe you are disciplined and you are getting a deal on your room - a DVC studio vs. a room at the Contemporary, so you are really saving yourself $500 on the room - and you've still spent $1000 more than you would have without DVC.

This is an interesting perspective I never considered. Is this really the way most people who own DVC think? I guess I am unusual. I track everything on spreadsheets including my vacations. To assign no cost to your room just because you prepaid seems pretty foolish.

 

[Deb & Bill]

This is an interesting perspective I never considered. Is this really the way most people who own DVC think? I guess I am unusual. I track everything on spreadsheets including my vacations. To assign no cost to your room just because you prepaid seems pretty foolish.

Unfortunately, that is what a lot of family members and guests who get invited along with the DVC member for a trip to WDW think. There has got to be plenty of stories about members who got burned by family and friends who backed out at the last minute because Bobby had to play T-Ball this summer or some such story.

 

[Goofgoof]

This has been a very interesting discussion for me. I apologize to the original poster for hijacking his thread. To get back on topic. It seems like there are a number of DVC owners on here who have been owners for a lot longer than me and don't feel like it was a good decision. I have already bought in so it's too late for me For the original poster and others who ask me the same question, what in your opinion is the best alternative to buying DVC and why:

1) renting points
2) paying cash with discounts/free dining
3) buying offsite timeshare
4) you are crazy, DVC is the best alternative

 

[crisi]

This is an interesting perspective I never considered. Is this really the way most people who own DVC think? I guess I am unusual. I track everything on spreadsheets including my vacations. To assign no cost to your room just because you prepaid seems pretty foolish.

Some people do. Some don't. Some do when they start out, but over time - ten years in, your original purchase paid for, and your dues taken out monthly as they have been for years, it becomes sort of a baseline cost that you might not "forget" about - but you don't meticulously track. Not everyone has a great grasp on finances.

If you do track this sort of thing, you'll have a MUCH better idea over time if DVC turned out to have actually saved you money, cost you something - but provided value, or if you weren't a great candidate.

Until the market crashed in 2008 these sorts of discussions were different, since until that point in time DVC was an appreciating asset - we knew (well, Dean kept pointing out) that at some point with a termination date, the party would end. There were people who not only saved money with DVC, but made money when they sold their contract - their cost for accommodations were less than the dues during their period of ownership. Some folks here are still in a position to sell for what they bought it for (or even a little more).

 

[DougEMG]

I think there are very few people who fit into the situation you describe but even then, would you make the same trips as often if you were only paying cash? I think for most in your situation the answer is still no.

I agree with you that there are probably very few people as anal as I am when it comes to budgeting and sticking to the budget.

What I like about DVC is that it lets me stay longer in the location I want then just about any other way. So DVC let's me stay longer than paying cash, but I still don't spend more than I budget for on vacations.

So you can save money by staying for the length of time you use to or you can stay for a longer time for the same amount of money. DVC gives you a lower cost per day for a room. The number of days you spend is totally up to the individual.

 

[DougEMG]

This has been a very interesting discussion for me. I apologize to the original poster for hijacking his thread. To get back on topic. It seems like there are a number of DVC owners on here who have been owners for a lot longer than me and don't feel like it was a good decision. I have already bought in so it's too late for me For the original poster and others who ask me the same question, what in your opinion is the best alternative to buying DVC and why:

1) renting points
2) paying cash with discounts/free dining
3) buying offsite timeshare
4) you are crazy, DVC is the best alternative

1,2,and 3 are all very good options for those people who don't want to make a long term commitment to DVC.

A friend of mine Rented points from me and loved her stay at SSR. She's already planning her next trip back, could easily afford to buy(and has been thinking about it), but has decided she prefers to rent and not make that commitment.

DVC is definitely not for everyone.

I've stayed off site, have had the free dining discount, but I only bought DVC when I was comfortable with making that commitment.

 

[Dean]

This is an interesting perspective I never considered. Is this really the way most people who own DVC think? I guess I am unusual. I track everything on spreadsheets including my vacations. To assign no cost to your room just because you prepaid seems pretty foolish.

I think a lot do. Personally when I spend my points, I think about the value I'm getting for them. I do try not to micromanage the situation though. Unfortunately Deb is right, many people have the sense that once owned, a timeshare is free. For those people, no amount of trying is likely to change their perspective. It's best not to invite those people on your trips if this bothers one.

I agree with you that there are probably very few people as anal as I am when it comes to budgeting and sticking to the budget.

What I like about DVC is that it lets me stay longer in the location I want then just about any other way. So DVC let's me stay longer than paying cash, but I still don't spend more than I budget for on vacations.

So you can save money by staying for the length of time you use to or you can stay for a longer time for the same amount of money. DVC gives you a lower cost per day for a room. The number of days you spend is totally up to the individual.

I'll be the first to tell you that DVC HAS changed my vacation habits. For the better from a lifestyle standpoint but worse from a cost standpoint. Before we bought into DVC, our usual vacation was a couple of extra days around a meeting and a long weekend at either Xmas or Thanksgiving. Of course buying DVC wasn't the only factor, our hard work in planning and saving was starting to yield dividends such that we could afford to do a little more traveling. Even then, we bought resale and I suspect we were one of the first (if not the first) resale buyer on the open market. We actually bought out of the USA today back when they had ads. All I knew of timeshares at the time was what I learned from the DVC tour and subsequent investigation. This was before the internet when there was Prodigy, AOL, and the like. Had I known then what I know now, I likely would not have bought DVC option for non DVC options and trading in to DVC. I still bet there's an example in your own situation where you would have settled for less or different without DVC.

 

[DougEMG]

My goal is to spend anywhere from 1-2 months a year at WDW once we retire (5-6 years hopefully). So my points are just for staying at WDW and maybe DL if i can ever get in there. For what I want, DVC seems to be the best option.

Without DVC I probably would have looked into renting a house for 1-2 months and renting a car. Not sure how much I would have liked being off site though.

 

[Dean]

My goal is to spend anywhere from 1-2 months a year at WDW once we retire (5-6 years hopefully). So my points are just for staying at WDW and maybe DL if i can ever get in there. For what I want, DVC seems to be the best option.

Without DVC I probably would have looked into renting a house for 1-2 months and renting a car. Not sure how much I would have liked being off site though.

I know a number of people who use timeshares as a second home in retirement. I know of 2 families that use it as their home and don't own anything else. I've positioned myself to use timeshares as my retirement home for travel but do also own a beach condo so I can take the dog.

 

[Goofgoof]

I think a lot do. Personally when I spend my points, I think about the value I'm getting for them. I do try not to micromanage the situation though. Unfortunately Deb is right, many people have the sense that once owned, a timeshare is free. For those people, no amount of trying is likely to change their perspective. It's best not to invite those people on your trips if this bothers one.

I'll be the first to tell you that DVC HAS changed my vacation habits. For the better from a lifestyle standpoint but worse from a cost standpoint. Before we bought into DVC, our usual vacation was a couple of extra days around a meeting and a long weekend at either Xmas or Thanksgiving. Of course buying DVC wasn't the only factor, our hard work in planning and saving was starting to yield dividends such that we could afford to do a little more traveling. Even then, we bought resale and I suspect we were one of the first (if not the first) resale buyer on the open market. We actually bought out of the USA today back when they had ads. All I knew of timeshares at the time was what I learned from the DVC tour and subsequent investigation. This was before the internet when there was Prodigy, AOL, and the like. Had I known then what I know now, I likely would not have bought DVC option for non DVC options and trading in to DVC. I still bet there's an example in your own situation where you would have settled for less or different without DVC.

My own situation is probably a little different. I love WDW but I also like to travel to other places. For the past 10+ years my wife and I have been traveling to different locations primarily using timeshares traded in through RCI. We are very fortunate to have an uncle who owns 4 or 5 weeks of timeshare in several locations and has been willing to trade in and send us places. Before kids we were probably going on at least 2 trips a year. After kids we became addicted to staying in a condo vs a studio. We had a few trips to Orlando in non- Disney timeshares which were great. We really wanted to stay on property, but couldn't give up the condo. BLT looked amazing and it has the best location for us. We looked into DVC and I ran some numbers. We only plan on using DVC every other year but we will be using our points for a 1 or 2 bedroom villa. Most likely on the years we don't go to WDW we will be going somewhere through RCI. For me it was never about saving money. I just wanted a more affordable way to stay in villas. Depending on what assumptions you use you can come close to breaking even when compared to a studio at CR. In my original post about saving money I was just laying out an example of how it can be done but not the way I am using it. I am still not sure if renting points would have worked better for me.

 

[Goofgoof]

I know a number of people who use timeshares as a second home in retirement. I know of 2 families that use it as their home and don't own anything else. I've positioned myself to use timeshares as my retirement home for travel but do also own a beach condo so I can take the dog.

That was my uncle's plan too. Lucky for us he got a job offer he couldn't refuse. He has been saying he is going to retire for years now but keeps putting it off. In the meantime he can't use all his timeshare weeks. He doesn't want to sell them since he will use them some time soon when he retires and the market for selling is pretty bad anyway so he is holding them and offering them to friends and family members rather than waste the points or pay to roll them over.

 

[crisi]

Unfortunately, that is what a lot of family members and guests who get invited along with the DVC member for a trip to WDW think. There has got to be plenty of stories about members who got burned by family and friends who backed out at the last minute because Bobby had to play T-Ball this summer or some such story.

And who among us (I know SOME would) would be splurging for a hotel room for our husband's sister and her good for nothing husband because their children have never been to Disney? Yet DVCers do this all the time

 

[ELMC]

...but over time - ten years in, your original purchase paid for, and your dues taken out monthly as they have been for years, it becomes sort of a baseline cost that you might not "forget" about - but you don't meticulously track....

Personally, I can't get past the fact that every point I use is "costing" me the $11 I could have rented it for had I decided not to use it. This kind of thinking makes me more judicious about how and when I choose to use my points. I know that's not everybody's point of view, but it's what helps me not go crazy and book a million vacations just because I have the points.