What's with the Jesus skywriting?

[salmoneous]

A christain has to accept all of Jesus' teachings,not just the ones they like.

Carrie - let me start off by saying I really appreaciate all your posts is this therad. I don't always agree with you 100%, but I really respect what you say.

But don't kid yourself. All Christians pick and choose which of Jesus' teaching they like. I've yet to meet a Christian who believes Christ's teaching about how its better to poke out an eye or chop off a hand than sin. Oh, Christians will *say* they believe all His teachings, but find loopholes to get around the ones they don't like.

 

[jimmiej]

Carrie - let me start off by saying I really appreaciate all your posts is this therad. I don't always agree with you 100%, but I really respect what you say.

But don't kid yourself. All Christians pick and choose which of Jesus' teaching they like. I've yet to meet a Christian who believes Christ's teaching about how its better to poke out an eye or chop off a hand than sin. Oh, Christians will *say* they believe all His teachings, but find loopholes to get around the ones they don't like.

I guess it's a good thing we live under grace & not the Law!

 

[KikiFan]

Im sorry if I sounded like I was judging,I wasnt.I really was just curious.

Apology accepted. and one of my own offered. In rereading your post I realized that your intention wasn't to be judgemental. But I am admittedly a bit prickly on the subject. For the last 20+ years I have been attending church and following my spiritual path. 2 years ago my BiL was "Born again" and found his way into a Church of Christ, because it happened to be the one closest to his house. That's how much though he put into their theology. He has now decided that I am not Christian enough. For 18 years I was in church practicing my faith while his happy **** was in bed and now I'm not Christian enough. Meanwhile he's turned into a pompass windbag, who is judgemental and hateful. So that whole "reborn" thing really chaps my hide. People treat is like a one time event that gives you a life time free pass. that bugs.

ETA: Isn't it funny that we spend so much time debating what a Christian is? When the fact is that Jesus never intended to start the whole new religion of Christianity. He intended to simply teach us to be better people.

 

[jimmiej]

Back on religions. Here's my test to tell how I feel about Christian religions.
The more you talk about Jesus and the less you talk about God, the more stubborn, judgmental, and offensively evangelizing you are. I prefer religion to be about a GOD, not his son. (And don't give me that whole "holy trinity" thing.) Keep me far away from the anti-evolution, speaking-in-tongues, hating-everyone-not-like-them folks! "Power and love"? Again, there's nothing that anyone has experienced that cannot be explained by natural causes.

Doesn't your Protestant church preach Jesus as Savior?

 

[carrie s]

Apology accepted. and one of my own offered. In rereading your post I realized that your intention wasn't to be judgemental. But I am admittedly a bit prickly on the subject. For the last 20+ years I have been attending church and following my spiritual path. 2 years ago my BiL was "Born again" and found his way into a Church of Christ, because it happened to be the one closest to his house. That's how much though he put into their theology. He has now decided that I am not Christian enough. For 18 years I was in church practicing my faith while his happy **** was in bed and now I'm not Christian enough. Meanwhile he's turned into a pompass windbag, who is judgemental and hateful. So that whole "reborn" thing really chaps my hide. People treat is like a one time event that gives you a life time free pass. that bugs.

Thanks for accepting the apology and I accept yours.I have to remember things may not always sound to others the way I mean them to sound.

The reason I was curious is I was raised that Jesus isnt God and that there is no hell.As I got older and spent some time reading the Bible those beliefs didnt seem right to me so I left the beliefs I was raised with.My mom was very upset that I left her faith and we had a few fights because she just didnt want to accept that I wanted to leave her church but she was never able to give me any real reason for her beliefs.So again,I am sorry that what I said came out wrong.

 

[aquinas]

John 8:57-58

So the Jews said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?"[d] 58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

John 10:22-30

22At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." 25Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."

John 17:6-11

6"I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. 10All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. 11And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.

It is interesting the Jews were getting ready to stone Jesus for claiming to be God in John 10:31-39

31The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?" 33The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God." 34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'? 35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came--and Scripture cannot be broken-- 36do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? 37If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father." 39Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.

Also check out:

http://www.probe.org/content/view/90/77/

C.S. Lewis in his classic, Mere Christianity:

I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept his claim to be God." That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic--on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg--or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God; or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon, or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come away with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.

 

[ford family]

The Nicene Creed, the earliest recorded attempt to determine exactly what one should believe to be considered a Christian (and remember there was only one flavor back then, Martin Luther was about 1200 years away from being born!). It's pretty much the gold standard.

[/i]

On the contrary, there were several attempts at reaching this "gold standard" and many variants exist today. Its main purpose was to denigrate and isolate other versions of Christianity that were gaining converts at the time.

ford family

 

[salmoneous]

I find it ironic that you picked a quote from CS Lewis to help explain what must be believed in order to be a real Christian. Many evangelicals - including, I suspect, one of the main posters in this discussion - don't believe Lewis is a real Christian because of his doctrinal beliefs. From the same book you quote above:

"There are people who do not accept the full Christian doctrine about Christ but who are so strongly attracted by Him that they are His in a much deeper sense than they themselves understand. There are people in other religions who are being led by God’s secret influence to concentrate on those parts of their religion which are in agreement with Christianity, and who thus belong to Christ without knowing it."

 

[cardaway]

And here I thought C.S. Lewis was a smart guy. Guess not. That quoted rant about a madman reads like it came from a madman.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

And here I thought C.S. Lewis was a smart guy. Guess not. That quoted rant about a madman reads like it came from a madman.

Not smart? Because he doesn't agree with you? That's what you accuse me of saying on almost a daily basis

 

[jimmiej]

So that whole "reborn" thing really chaps my hide. People treat is like a one time event that gives you a life time free pass. that bugs.

"Born again" is a Biblical term.

John 3
Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

ETA: Isn't it funny that we spend so much time debating what a Christian is? When the fact is that Jesus never intended to start the whole new religion of Christianity. He intended to simply teach us to be better people.

I disagree, especially with your last sentence. Jesus came as a blood sacrifice to reunite mankind with God. Why do you think He was willing to die on the cross?

Luke 22

19And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. 21But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table.

Mark 2:16-18

16And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?

17When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mark 8:34-36

34Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 35For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?

Why did Jesus tell his disciples to spread the gospel (good news)? Why did He reject the religion of the religious leaders?

 

[cardaway]

Not smart? Because he doesn't agree with you? That's what you accuse me of saying on almost a daily basis

Just my opinion, just like yours. Pick one of your favorite holier than thou responses and pretend I *posted it here*. If they are good enough to post to me, they are good enough for you to accept.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

cardaway... no problem, man. Just saw an obvious chance to point something out.

Y'all may now continue the thread

 

[Honu]

Does anyone else zoom over the posts containing bible quotes? Just curious. I think most of us are familiar with the bible and the only people reading them are the people that have the same POV as the poster.

It would be nice if people used their own words to explain their position. Just a thought. Carry on.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Does anyone else zoom over the posts containing bible quotes? Just curious. I think most of us are familiar with the bible and the only people reading them are the people that have the same POV as the poster.

It would be nice if people used their own words to explain their position. Just a thought. Carry on.

Stop readin' my mind

 

[Amity 3]

Does anyone else zoom over the posts containing bible quotes? Just curious. I think most of us are familiar with the bible and the only people reading them are the people that have the same POV as the poster.

It would be nice if people used their own words to explain their position. Just a thought. Carry on.

my brain has trained itself to ignore them, much like the sound of my wife's voice.

 

[cardaway]

Does anyone else zoom over the posts containing bible quotes? Just curious. I think most of us are familiar with the bible and the only people reading them are the people that have the same POV as the poster.

It would be nice if people used their own words to explain their position. Just a thought. Carry on.

Amen!!!

 

[Aidensmom]

I've yet to meet a Christian who believes Christ's teaching about how its better to poke out an eye or chop off a hand than sin. Oh, Christians will *say* they believe all His teachings, but find loopholes to get around the ones they don't like.

You've met one now. Poking out your eye or chopping off a hand would be ways of preventing particular sins. It would indeed be better to find a way to prevent committing sin than to commit sin. Actually, to be honest, I don't know any Christians who would disagree with that.

I'd quote the scriptures that tell us that is what it means, but of course you all would then ignore my post.

 

[Amity 3]

I'd quote the scriptures that tell us that is what it means, but of course you all would then ignore my post.

just that part of it.

 

[Uncle Remus]

This might get good.