What's with the Jesus skywriting?

[cardaway]

Why welcome an obvious troll? Because he says the right thing?

 

[LoraJ]

How exactly has it been proven that prayer doesnt work? Prayer has been proven time and time again to work.

My FFIL is dead. Prayers did not save him.

 

[KikiFan]

Consider that prayer has been proven OVER and OVER to be completely incapable of affecting anything, you're welcome to pray all you want... feel free to cross your fingers, not walk under ladders, throw spilled salt over your shoulder, and stay away from black cats, too!

eh I have to disagree with ya. the opposite is actually true. Prayer has actually been shown help people in times of illness/crisis.

I still think that the skywriter blows.

 

[jimmiej]

My FFIL is dead. Prayers did not save him.

I don't know if you're a parent or not, but consider this. Do you ALWAYS tell your child yes? Of course not! Parents see the big picture & know that sometimes the answer must be no, or wait, even though the child may not understand.

 

[cardaway]

eh I have to disagree with ya. the opposite is actually true. Prayer has actually been shown help people in times of illness/crisis.

Different ways of thinking have been proven to make a difference. Works just as well with people simply thinking happy thoughts with no higher power involved.

 

[LoraJ]

I don't know if you're a parent or not, but consider this. Do you ALWAYS tell your child yes? Of course not! Parents see the big picture & know that sometimes the answer must be no, or wait, even though the child may not understand.

So, if someone else gets cured, then their prayers were "answered" why does God/Jesus not care about the other people's whose prayers weren't answered?

It's all hogwash to me and has more to do with attitude than anything.

 

[Buckalew11]

Does prayer work? Not if you phrase it like that, IMO. God isn't a wish granter. You don't send Him your list and hope he fulfills it. If you pray like that, you are missing the point of GETTING to pray to God.

God didn't save my dad either. God allowed my dad to die last Friday. Sure, I would have loved to have had my dad healed or just less sick and here for awhile longer. Did I share that desire with God? You betcha. But I also prayed for His will to be done in our lives and that He would help me accept it. Think that's a cop-out to prove prayer doesn't work? Then I still think you don't understand what prayer really is. Going to God with a list of wants, desires and needs and then thinking prayer doesn't work if it all doesn't work out to your liking is absurd IMHO.

You are setting yourself up for disappointment. People die, it is a fact of life. People die too young, people suffer while dying, the list goes on and on. Situations happens...disease and tragedy. You want to blame God? Be my guest. You want to share your feelings of hurt, anger, disappoint, blame with God...then I think if you open your heart and mind, God will help you through some really tough times. Just MHO because I've been there.

 

[Saxsoon]

So, if someone else gets cured, then their prayers were "answered" why does God/Jesus not care about the other people's whose prayers weren't answered?

It's all hogwash to me and has more to do with attitude than anything.

I guess you didn't read that last sentence huh?

 

[LoraJ]

I only think prayer is there to comfort people. And if what they wish for happens, I don't believe the prayer had anything to do with it. It just happened.

I have seen several threads on these boards asking for prayers for their child's football team to win, or for little Jimmy to hit a home run. Why would people waste God's time with stuff like that when there is so much suffering in the world. So what happen's if Jimmy does nothing but strike out, does he get angry at God because the disboards prayed for him but nothing happened?

 

[Buckalew11]

I believe I've missed those threads. Personally, I don't think one should pray to win a ballgame or hit a homerun. There a lot that can be prayed for during a ballgame though... safety, attitudes, etc.
Some people would say not to bother God about little things. I disagree. I may be right about it or I might be wrong.
I believe God is big enough to hear ALL our prayers...whether it is about someone with sickness or about someone who might be sick with nervousness before a big game. Who should pray? Both, IMO. If it concerns you, then pray about it--that is my theory. Do I always do that? Nope, but I usually end up wishing I had.

I think we can share everything with God. My belief is "don't put limits on God". Just because I can't clearly hear 5 people talking to me at once doesn't mean God can't hear 5 million. God isn't human. He has no limits. JMHO.

 

[Groucho]

How exactly has it been proven that prayer doesnt work? Prayer has been proven time and time again to work.

Baloney. Find one.

The Columbia study, the only one that showed any effect whatsoever, was a sham - one of the three authors wasn't even a doctor and has since been indicted on various charges, and the other two refuse to comment on the article, essentially disowning it. Meanwhile, countless other ones have shown the fact that it's useless. (Except maybe as a mental aid to the person doing it.)

Most recently was in August, the results of a ten-year test were released, as written up here. It was "by far the most rigorous and comprehensive study on the effects of intercessory prayer on the health and recovery of patients ever conducted." The result?

"Results showed no statistically significant differences between the prayed-for and non-prayed-for groups. Although the following findings were not statistically significant, 59% of patients who knew that they were being prayed for suffered complications, compared with 51% of those who were uncertain whether they were being prayed for or not; and 18% in the uninformed prayer group suffered major complications such as heart attack or stroke, compared with 13% in the group that received no prayers."

If anything, it sounds like it hurts!

 

[jimmiej]

So, if someone else gets cured, then their prayers were "answered" why does God/Jesus not care about the other people's whose prayers weren't answered?

It's all hogwash to me and has more to do with attitude than anything.

That's like your kid saying, "But Billy's mom lets him (whatever)!" You know what's best for your child. You believe your decision is best for your child.

I'll ask you directly this time. Do YOU always say yes to your children?

 

[Buckalew11]

Baloney. Find one.

The Columbia study, the only one that showed any effect whatsoever, was a sham - one of the three authors wasn't even a doctor and has since been indicted on various charges, and the other two refuse to comment on the article, essentially disowning it. Meanwhile, countless other ones have shown the fact that it's useless. (Except maybe as a mental aid to the person doing it.)

Most recently was in August, the results of a ten-year test were released, as written up here. It was "by far the most rigorous and comprehensive study on the effects of intercessory prayer on the health and recovery of patients ever conducted." The result?

"Results showed no statistically significant differences between the prayed-for and non-prayed-for groups. Although the following findings were not statistically significant, 59% of patients who knew that they were being prayed for suffered complications, compared with 51% of those who were uncertain whether they were being prayed for or not; and 18% in the uninformed prayer group suffered major complications such as heart attack or stroke, compared with 13% in the group that received no prayers."

If anything, it sounds like it hurts!

See, I think they're looking at it all wrong.

For instance, someone with cancer who has no one praying for them might go into remission. for them!!

But someone, like my dad, who had people all over the USA praying for him, had an agressive cancer that spread to his bones, his lymph nodes, his kidneys, his liver etc.

Now, did the prayers not "work"? Well, my dad certainly wasn't healed. In fact, it seemed like if he had 10 tests run, 7 of them would come back with negative results. Now does that mean the prayers weren't "working"? Well, if God was in the wish granting business than, no, it wasn't working. But my belief is that He isn't granting wishes. It wasn't God's plan for my dad's life to survive this cancer nor be healed of it. If you pray for help in accepting what comes your way in life (which is often death), I think you'll find prayer much more effective.

My prayers were answered. I shared my desire for dad to be healed or given more time OR to help me get through his downhill decline and death. God has indeed helped me through it.

And of course, it is all a matter of opinion, or experience or whatever. But I do believe that God does answer prayers. Answers aren't always in agreement with what we want or "wish" for.

 

[LoraJ]

That's like your kid saying, "But Billy's mom lets him (whatever)!" You know what's best for your child. You believe your decision is best for your child.

I'll ask you directly this time. Do YOU always say yes to your children?

I don't have kids.

And if I did, saying "no" if Billy wants a cookie is not the same as praying for someone who is very ill. Your reasoning as to why God only answers certain prayers is for your comfort when things don't go your way. It's the only explanation you have to keep you believing.

I think prayer can be comforting. People were praying for FFIL, it didn't help him physically, but it gave him comfort in knowing people were "thinking" about him.

 

[catycatcat4]

im in florida it happens all the time i dont see the big deal this happend last year
when juses loves U was writen


"mr #$#$# out side some one wrote juses (sp?) you"

"did you know its true?" he said



thats why i like that teacher

 

[jimmiej]

I don't have kids.

And if I did, saying "no" if Billy wants a cookie is not the same as praying for someone who is very ill. Your reasoning as to why God only answers certain prayers is for your comfort when things don't go your way. It's the only explanation you have to keep you believing.

I think prayer can be comforting. People were praying for FFIL, it didn't help him physically, but it gave him comfort in knowing people were "thinking" about him.

You act as if Christians pray for nothing but new cars & fancy houses!

You didn't answer my question. I'll rephrase it: Would you ALWAYS say yes to your child?

 

[LoraJ]

You act as if Christians pray for nothing but new cars & fancy houses!

You didn't answer my question. I'll rephrase it: Would you ALWAYS say yes to your child?

I did answer your question. You just don't like my answer.

 

[BurkeTribe]

I don't know if you're a parent or not, but consider this. Do you ALWAYS tell your child yes? Of course not! Parents see the big picture & know that sometimes the answer must be no, or wait, even though the child may not understand.

Oh please, not that old can't-lose saw. Yes-no-wait is just a cop-out used by religious apologists when confronted by the facts.


Prayer of all kinds, to many deities, has been shown to have no effect, in many scientific studies.


If I pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster then does the "yes, no, or wait" apply? How about if I pray to the Cosmic Pink Elephants whose antimatter f*rts created the Universe? The religious apologist usually answers "no, that won't work"... because to him only HIS deity can answer prayers. Therein lies the root of the problem.

If people want to use it as mind balm, that's great... as long as they don't hurt anyone. But we see, nearly every day now, situations where religious nuts are hurting people, while "praying" for the destruction of those who don't believe the way they do.

 

[ducklite]

They do it every week or so. no biggie, most people just ignore it for the few minutes it takes until it blows away. I can't believe it's remarkable enough to turn into an umpteen page thread.

I believe that the no-fly zone over WDW has been lifted--although I"m not sure about that.

Anne

 

[cardaway]

So, if someone else gets cured, then their prayers were "answered" why does God/Jesus not care about the other people's whose prayers weren't answered?

It's all hogwash to me and has more to do with attitude than anything.

IMO the "prayer" element is the sugar pill part of the study, the part that doesn't really have an effect on the end result. The attitude is the key.