What's with the Jesus skywriting?

[Zippa D Doodah]

For the record, caradway, I welcome your posts on this thread too. I say this because I believe in free speech and in difference of opinion.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

Stop ignoring the Old Testament.

You miss (as most members of that branch of Abrahamism do) why many find the story of Jesus ... unmoving.

Let's run down the story without the ... argumentative aspects to make it clearer, as a story:

-----------------------------------------------
A certain god/deity is omnipotent-- he controls the Whole Universe and can do absolutely anything he wants (even drowning and killing babies and children to get his will done, but let's leave that aspect alone for now).

So he sends down his son/scion/emissary (who also has magic powers and who even knows the Future) to Earth, where said being, in human form, is tortured and killed by the people in power... much like thousands of regular humans have been tortured and killed throughout history (Saddam's Iraq, Nazi Germany, Inquisition, Crusades, Caligula's Rome).

But the torture of the magic being is honestly not as bad as that suffered by most of the regular humans tortured throughout history, because the magic being knows the future, and thus knows that within days he will be back on Earth and then with his All-powerful Dad/Creator in (place of all-happiness--Heaven/Valhalla/Hogwart's, etc.), and he will still have all his magic powers, ruling the Universe with his dad, and can come back to Earth at any time he desires... and supposedly will, to kill millions of non-believers.
----------------------------------------------------

If the son/scion/emissary wanted to make a real point, he would have died and gone to Place-of-suffering (Hell/Hades/DMV)... forever.
Now THAT would have been a powerful story of sacrifice.

I can see that you have studied the Bible, at least the Old Testament. Yes the world has endured a lot of suffering and pain. Still all of this is for a purpose. Since you brought up the Old Testament, lets look at Isaiah:
Isaiah 53
1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

 

[orljustin]

Each one has to accept or reject that Jesus loved them so much, He chose to die a humiliating death, just to restore their relationship with God, His Father.

You're stating this like a fact, that someone can accept or reject, when in fact, the rest of say that this whole thing of yours is a non-issue that we don't have to deal with at all.

 

[nuke]

I meant that for those who may have questions about Jesus but dont want to ask them here,for obvious reasons.

Just because you were a Christian and were taught about Jesus doesnt mean that you knew Jesus.There is such a big difference between knowing about Him and knowing Him.Just like having Christian parents who take you to church doesnt make you a Christian.

Sorry I won't be pm'ing you. If I need to learn more about Jesus I'll just look to the skies over Disneyworld.

 

[phillybeth]

Did I tell you that my restaurant is the best? Really it is! Even if you choose not to dine in my restaurant, it is always there for you, open 24/7- just waiting for you to realize its greatness.
And it has the best cheese fries! Much better than those 'crackers' other restaurants serve.
I'm not ashamed of loving my restaurant. Are you ashamed of your restaurant? Is it lacking something? Maybe the TP in the restrooms is a little rough, or the napkins are paper and not cloth? Or the salt shaker is not always full? Well, those things don't happen at my restaurant! My restaurant's staff is personally chosen by the owner for their dedication to the restaurant. They are full of that restaurant spirit!
I love my restaurant! Please try my restaurant, you'll love it, I promise!

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

You're stating this like a fact, that someone can accept or reject, when in fact, the rest of say that this whole thing of yours is a non-issue that we don't have to deal with at all.

That is true. You do not have to deal with it. I am referring to your not dealing with it as rejection. If I ignore my electric bill they will turn off the electicity, if I ignore the fact my car needs gas, I will run out of gas, I guess I am just saying the time will come when you will have to face this, I care enough to tell you, one day you stand in front of God. You can believe it is fantasy or not real, that is your right.

 

[Heidict]

I have to admit I was really shocked at the anger some people have against the Christian religion in the other thread. I was very saddened that some folks have such negative views on Christianity.

If I looked up in the sky and saw "Jesus Loves You" I would smile. I never thought that such a message would cause the opposite affect in so many people. I guess I live a sheltered life, most people I know are Christians (the ones who are not are not offended by my choice in religion), you kind of take it for granted. I would never want my actions as a Christian to cause pain or invoke anger. Christ's life was about serving and loving others, and not about harrasing or being intrusive in the lives of non-believers.

Very well said. It's said to see the anger.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

phillybeth, don't you agree that everybody should eat SOMETHING? Even if they can't/won't eat at your restaurant, don't you think they should have a sandwich at home, a pack of crackers from a vending machine... SOMETHING? Everyone has to eat, don't they?

 

[salmoneous]

What about the ones who have said "good job" and "thanks" do they not count,

One thing you may want to consider... those folks saying "good job" and "thanks" have all been Christians. Some of the folks who aren't Christians have said you are actually making them less likely to turn to Christ. And here's the kicker - none of the non-Christians have said that your words have motivated them to seek out Christ.

There's a lesson here - the same one the skywriter needs to understand. It's one thing to want to spread the "Good News" about Jesus to the unsaved. But there are good and bad ways of spreading that news. And I don't mean good and bad in a moral sense, but in an effectiveness sense.

There are some Christians out there "spreading the news" in a way that is totally counterproductive. That isn't a good thing from a Christian standpoint, or a non-Christian standpoint.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

Did I tell you that my restaurant is the best? Really it is! Even if you choose not to dine in my restaurant, it is always there for you, open 24/7- just waiting for you to realize its greatness.
And it has the best cheese fries! Much better than those 'crackers' other restaurants serve.
I'm not ashamed of loving my restaurant. Are you ashamed of your restaurant? Is it lacking something? Maybe the TP in the restrooms is a little rough, or the napkins are paper and not cloth? Or the salt shaker is not always full? Well, those things don't happen at my restaurant! My restaurant's staff is personally chosen by the owner for their dedication to the restaurant. They are full of that restaurant spirit!
I love my restaurant! Please try my restaurant, you'll love it, I promise!

You know, I might try your restaurant! Thanks for helping me make a point!

 

[phillybeth]

phillybeth, don't you agree that everybody should eat SOMETHING? Even if they can't/won't eat at your restaurant, don't you think they should have a sandwich at home, a pack of crackers from a vending machine... SOMETHING? Everyone has to eat, don't they?

Nope. Only the food from my restaurant will fill that gaping hunger you have- the hunger that no other food will satisfy. The hunger you don't even know you have until you come to MY restaurant.

You think those other restaurants are serving you food, but they are not- it's all fake food, all artificial and full of chemicals. Only my restaurant has the ONE TRUE FOOD that will fill your hunger!

You will only be hungry for the food from my restaurant if you only eat there once! The power of my restaurant's food will convince you there is no other food.

I love my restaurant!

 

[BurkeTribe]

I can see that you have studied the Bible, at least the Old Testament. Yes the world has endured a lot of suffering and pain. Still all of this is for a purpose.

1 Samuel 15 (New International Version)

1 Samuel 15
1 Samuel said to Saul, "I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

One thing you may want to consider... those folks saying "good job" and "thanks" have all been Christians. Some of the folks who aren't Christians have said you are actually making them less likely to turn to Christ. And here's the kicker - none of the non-Christians have said that your words have motivated them to seek out Christ.

There's a lesson here - the same one the skywriter needs to understand. It's one thing to want to spread the "Good News" about Jesus to the unsaved. But there are good and bad ways of spreading that news. And I don't mean good and bad in a moral sense, but in an effectiveness sense.

There are some Christians out there "spreading the news" in a way that is totally counterproductive. That isn't a good thing from a Christian standpoint, or a non-Christian standpoint.

How would you share the good news?

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

Nope. Only the food from my restaurant will fill that gaping hunger you have- the hunger that no other food will satisfy. The hunger you don't even know you have until you come to MY restaurant.

You think those other restaurants are serving you food, but they are not- it's all fake food, all artificial and full of chemicals. Only my restaurant has the ONE TRUE FOOD that will fill your hunger!

You will only be hungry for the food from my restaurant if you only eat there once! The power of my restaurant's food will convince you there is no other food.

I love my restaurant!

Now I must say... I have never heard of a restaurant like that. I thought I was making a sensible analogy. My bad. I should not have interrupted yours.

 

[jimmiej]

One thing you may want to consider... those folks saying "good job" and "thanks" have all been Christians. Some of the folks who aren't Christians have said you are actually making them less likely to turn to Christ. And here's the kicker - none of the non-Christians have said that your words have motivated them to seek out Christ.

There's a lesson here - the same one the skywriter needs to understand. It's one thing to want to spread the "Good News" about Jesus to the unsaved. But there are good and bad ways of spreading that news. And I don't mean good and bad in a moral sense, but in an effectiveness sense.

There are some Christians out there "spreading the news" in a way that is totally counterproductive. That isn't a good thing from a Christian standpoint, or a non-Christian standpoint.

I've had posters ask me about becoming a Christian (via PM) due to my postings on religious threads.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

1 Samuel 15 (New International Version)

1 Samuel 15
1 Samuel said to Saul, "I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "

Yes, God told Samuel to kill everyone, even the animals. Did you know Samuel was one of the only men in the Bible that there is no record of his doing any thing wrong? The world will still pay for what it has done and will do to Israel. That debt has not been settled yet. And not a debate I wish to enter on this forum. To all Judaic posters, I pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

 

[Independent]

But are you sure you don't want to try my restaurant? I promise it will be your best restaurant experience ever!
I love my restaurant! And my restaurant loves you- and will wait for you to come and experience its wonderful cuisine!
My restaurant was built for your dining pleasure- why can't you see that! I love my restaurant!
The Bill of Rights guarantees all Americans Freedom of Dining! See Zagat p 54, paragraph 3 for proof on how wonderful my restaurant is!
85% of Americans have gone to my restaurant at least once, that should tell you how great it is!

AH, but Phillybeth - they wouldn't be caught dead in your restaurant. They want everybody to come try their restaurant, but would never even consider spending anytime enjoying your restaurant.

They would only pray that the health department shuts down your (and all the other restaurants) so that everybody would be forced to go to their restaurant.

But go to yours? And admit it might be just as good as their restaurant?

It will be a cold day in hell before that happens.

 

[phillybeth]

Now I must say... I have never heard of a restaurant like that. I thought I was making a sensible analogy. My bad. I should not have interrupted yours.

Really? You have never heard of a restaurant that claims only it has the ONE TRUE FOOD? I know of several restaurants that claim that only they have the right way to satisfy your hunger. I must hang around the wrong restaurants!

 

[aquinas]

One thing you may want to consider... those folks saying "good job" and "thanks" have all been Christians. Some of the folks who aren't Christians have said you are actually making them less likely to turn to Christ. And here's the kicker - none of the non-Christians have said that your words have motivated them to seek out Christ.

There's a lesson here - the same one the skywriter needs to understand. It's one thing to want to spread the "Good News" about Jesus to the unsaved. But there are good and bad ways of spreading that news. And I don't mean good and bad in a moral sense, but in an effectiveness sense.

There are some Christians out there "spreading the news" in a way that is totally counterproductive. That isn't a good thing from a Christian standpoint, or a non-Christian standpoint.

This is the part where you would not understand. The results of our spreading the Gospel are not up to us. We are just commanded to spread the gospel. You say its counterproductive and therefore you deny any chance that our Sovereign God can draw any of those people that have heard it proclaimed to Him. The results many not be immediate and we may never see the effect our proclaiming produces. This could lead some readers to really evaluate their life. For others this could be a first step on the journey. We are accountable for what God calls us to do. We leave the rest in His capable hands.

Who are you to say what is counterproductive? You can not see into the hearts of anybody nor can you see into the future. Nor can I. God can use whatever man does for good. Joseph is an example.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

Really? You have never heard of a restaurant that claims only it has the ONE TRUE FOOD? I know of several restaurants that claim that only they have the right way to satisfy your hunger. I must hang around the wrong restaurants!

I may be missing something, but I can only think of restaurants that advertise that they have great food. BUt sometimes we know they're dead wrong. For example, I like a good philly cheesesteak sandwich. BUt you and I both know that the one they advertise as "the best" at the mall food court here in NC is nowhere near as good as what I can get in Philly.