What's fair?

[luv2nascar]

1/3 is yours to pay. If your brother loans you the money pay him back out of inheritence. Life isn't fair neither is expecting your brothers to pay your share.

 

[mrsklamc]

It is "fair" for you to pay 1/3, but why does the other brother care? I mean, if one brother chooses to pay your share, it's really none of the other brother's business.

 

[Minnie_me]

Lots of good and thoughtful responses, thank you!

Here are some answers to questions:

~ there is no inheritance, except for the money from the sale of the house which will only be about $40K. Brother #2 and I have already agreed to hand that all over to Brother #1 because he will be taking her in at some point. He has an inlaw apartment and lives close to good hospitals/doctors.

~ None of this is covered by insurance or Medicaid at this point

Not the answer that you want, but a fair answer: Each sibling should pay 1/3. Each of you has made choices, each of you has different salaries and resources. Your income isn't related to your family obligations.

I don't really consider being abandoned by one's spouse a "choice". I was in better financial condition before he left. This was unexpected, and I don't think that many people prepare themselves financially for abandonment.

If it's genuinely impossible for you to pay your share, perhaps you could look at moving in with her (couldn't you work in that area?) so that you could do "your share" in physical work rather than paying in cash. Or perhaps she could move in with you.

I can't move there. She lives almost 3 hours from here. I'd have to uproot my children and leave all of our friends. And, maybe you haven't heard, but it's VERY difficult to find teaching jobs these days! She can't move here, because she would be alone all day, I don't have the room, and we are at least 45 minutes from doctors/hospitals where she goes often.

 

[happygirl]

Lots of good and thoughtful responses, thank you!

Here are some answers to questions:

~ there is no inheritance, except for the money from the sale of the house which will only be about $40K. Brother #2 and I have already agreed to hand that all over to Brother #1 because he will be taking her in at some point. He has an inlaw apartment and lives close to good hospitals/doctors.

~ None of this is covered by insurance or Medicaid at this point



I don't really consider being abandoned by one's spouse a "choice". I was in better financial condition before he left. This was unexpected, and I don't think that many people prepare themselves financially for abandonment.



I can't move there. She lives almost 3 hours from here. I'd have to uproot my children and leave all of our friends. And, maybe you haven't heard, but it's VERY difficult to find teaching jobs these days! She can't move here, because she would be alone all day, I don't have the room, and we are at least 45 minutes from doctors/hospitals where she goes often.

No need to get defensive you asked for advice people are trying to help.

 

[MomToOne]

Well, there's "fair" and then there's "possible". They aren't always the same thing unfortunately.

Fair would be dividing it evenly 3 ways. But if you can't come up with that money somehow, well, then it's just not possible.

I would try my hardest to figure out something I could cut back on, or see if there was some way I could earn the extra cash, but as a fellow single parent I also know that neither of those are in the realm of possibility sometimes!

If you just can't raise the money and your brothers do end up carrying the load, then ANY estate that may be left upon your mother's eventual death (may that be quite awhile from now!) should first repay them their expenses and reasonable interest. Anything left after that is deducted should then be split evenly amongst you all.

 

[Minnie_me]

You and your one brother made a deal - you are doing what you can and your trying. Don't let your other brother get to you - its between you and your other brother.

Yeah, I have always let him get to me. He's always had a way of making me feel bad about myself, ever since we were kids. Brother #2 is telling me to ignore him as well.

I did call and talk to him (#1) tonight, and told him that I will go down to mom's house over Veteran's Day weekend and start going through all of her stuff. It's a task that my brothers both dread, but I'm really good at it and don't mind doing it. He won't let up on the 1/3 deal, but I'm trying to ignore him.

 

[happygirl]

Yeah, I have always let him get to me. He's always had a way of making me feel bad about myself, ever since we were kids. Brother #2 is telling me to ignore him as well.

I did call and talk to him (#1) tonight, and told him that I will go down to mom's house over Veteran's Day weekend and start going through all of her stuff. It's a task that my brothers both dread, but I'm really good at it and don't mind doing it. He won't let up on the 1/3 deal, but I'm trying to ignore him.

It nice of you to go up and take care of her stuff

 

[mrsklamc]

He won't let up on the 1/3 deal, but I'm trying to ignore him.

If your other brother is willing I would conspire with him. "Ok fine, I'll come up with the $200," then separately agree that your other brother could 'gift' you $200 a month, and the second transaction is just between you two.

 

[disneyofcourse]

I think its very fair. Why would one person have to pay more just because he makes a better living?


Would you be saying anything if you all made the same lifestyle , had the same money as yourself? Sometimes those with fancy cars and mansions may have debt up to their eyeballs.


If you really can't fit this in your budget then something has to change. If your brothers have to pay for your share then expect the money from selling off your mothers items to go towards paying them back first. (Once that time comes)

 

[kamik86]

I'm going to answer a bit from the other side of things.

I'm 25 and the youngest of 4 kids. Yet if my parents need help financially, I'm going to bet an unequal amount will come from me because

Sibling 1 - no ambition. She had great grades in school went to a 4 year college when times were still good in most areas but her industry tanked around here. She wasn'twilling to move away so she just didn't work and lived with mom and Dad. She now works retail but has lived with both my other sisters for a while and now is back living with mom and dad.

Sibling 2 - Well 2 weeks ago she was homeless. Technically now she has a small apartment but she never has any money as she is too busy buying booze and drugs (literally she had a party with plenty of alcohol and drugs less a month before she became homeless...) She doesn't want to be alone so she gets loser jobs that bring her into this spiral. Then she'll clean up a bit when the guy leaves and start it all over again.

Sibling 3 - She is the best off of the bunch but she is working 2 jobs to afford the luxuries she does have with her family (included 2 kids 1 of which is a senior in high school now).

Then there is me. I will be finishing my masters degree this year and already make more then anyone else in the family. I don't have kids yet but I will and have quite a few luxuries for my husband and I, including DVC, vacations, video games and systems, heck my husband has spent over $300 in comics in the last two months.

If mom needs help I'll pay. However I will fully expect the others to help out in other ways. To an extent this is already how it works. The oldest lives with them and does help them out with day to day stuff, espeically now that mom is on disability. The third sister is generally able to get out of work and help with driving them to appointments and doesn't mind spending time with them when they have to go to the hospital and stuff.

Me I'm bad at the people stuff. When mom had her surgery I did go up and be with her and help her out a few times when she shouldn't be alone yet but honestly it made me really uncomfortable and I wasn't as good at it as my sisters are. So honestly if something were to happen and Dad couldn't work I would be sending the checks and just going to visit, they would be doing the work.

This type of arrangement is ok in my mind. But if they weren't willing to do the work I would honestly be bothered. I would pay because I wouldn't let my parents suffer for my sisters fault but it would bother me because they made their choices if anything my siblings should all be much more financially stable as they have had much longer to get there stuff in order (the youngest after me is 35 btw) why should I be penalized for that, even if all I would be giving up is the extra vacation that year?

So after my long rant. I really think you need to find some way to do something to help out. Maybe look at it this way. Imagine for a moment you didn't have your brothers you were an only child. What would you do then?

 

[RachaelA]

As long as brother #1 isn't paying more than a third, ignore him. He can complain all her wants, but technically it is "fair" for him because he's not paying anymore than he would be if #2 wasn't helping you.

 

[danabalana]

Life isn't fair. You can't make money appear where there is none. I'm so sorry to hear about your mother. It's a terrible thing to see someone lose their thinking ability.

I don't know about where you live but here in OR she could definitely get aid.
We've been through something similar with my grandmother.
She needs a social worker to assess her needs and see what's available.
There are hoops to jump through but if your mom has no substantial amount to $$ then help should be available. The home my grandmother owned did not count against her.

I looked online at my county's website and found where to go for help through family services.

I hope things go as well as they can, considering the circumstances, for you and your family.

 

[mistysue]

You say brother #1 doesn't do vacations or have luxury items... so he is probably sitting back going "I'm in the same position she is in, why doesn't she have to pay too?" Possibly even posting this on some other forum getting support for his sister who has a good income and two kids she gets child support for... His wife getting disability is probably about the same as your child support (those payments are usually crappy) and kids are less expensive than adults.

I'm not saying you have the money, just imagine his shoes and think about it. It doesn't sound like he is living life with tons of frills either.

Everybody should give equally, whether your part comes in cash, time or favors for your brothers even.

 

[C.Ann]

You can't give what you don't have.. Just do the best you can - as you have been doing - with the checks you've been sending..

 

[Sarah_Rose]

Honestly, if you and your other brother have worked it out between yourselves, I wouldn't worry about it what your brother thinks or says.

I'm thinking about DH's family and his two sisters, and if (when?) we end up in a similar situation, we would be the family that ended up paying DH's sister's portion of the bills. She is single, lives in an expensive area, and doesn't make a lot of money. She also has debt issues and will likely never own her own house..... I can't imagine trying to ask her to to cough up extra money, when we could easily pay her share without hardship. It would just feel "unfair" to put family in a financial bind when it's not necessary. We believe that family helps each other out, and sometimes that means that life isn't always "fair" and "even". It's not worth causing conflict with siblings for something as trivial as money, particularly when the conflict could be completely avoided.

 

[Sagginit]

i would first focusing on finding the funds from another source. 40K is not a lot in assets and she should qualify for assistance. if she does not qualify for any sort of medicaid (which i would really challenge that with them and find out exactly why) she may qualify for assistance from a grant. see agencies get govt. grants to provide healthcare to people in situations like this. if you need just a few hours a week it may be even easier to get. i would find agencies in the area that specialize in home care, even private ones and reach out to them. they often have social workers that will talk you thru it and help you with what they are able to offer based on the situation. they need to use this money or they lose it, but they can get tapped out at certain times of the year so you may want to ask nicely if they do not have the funds at that time would they suggest calling back in the next year. i also have to be blunt and point out that when you deal with the elderly you are constantly losing clients so things for an agency can change quickly.

also if she does have 40K in the house a reverse mortgage is always an option. brother that is inheriting the house may not like this and she may outlive the money though. however if she has too much in assets and you spend a bit of them you may then qualify her for future aide.

i do applaud you for having a plan though. it can be very difficult to handle these type of situations and making the hard decisions now will make it easier in the future.

 

[nunzia]

I understand where your brother is coming from. Just because they make more does not mean that they should have to pay more. She is all of your mothers.

What surprised me is that the richer brother is not paying both his and your share. He agrees that you should not pay but he wants to dictate what your brother pays.

That was my first thought..I'd say each of you has a $200 responsibility for the care and and it would be nice if the wealthy brother just gave you say, $100 a month toward your share.

 

[nunzia]

Yeah, I have always let him get to me. He's always had a way of making me feel bad about myself, ever since we were kids. Brother #2 is telling me to ignore him as well.

I did call and talk to him (#1) tonight, and told him that I will go down to mom's house over Veteran's Day weekend and start going through all of her stuff. It's a task that my brothers both dread, but I'm really good at it and don't mind doing it. He won't let up on the 1/3 deal, but I'm trying to ignore him.

It sounds like the bigger problem you have is with one of your brothers. OK, so a brother is helping and that's great and you are doing extra things to help out that others don't want to do. If brother #1 realizes he will have to take Mom in at some point then he is probably a bit resentful that he is in line for contributing much more than the other 2 in upcoming years. Having face to face daily responsibility is MUCH more taxing then coming up with cash for care. My Mom and her husband live here. My Mom's husband's 4 kids live far away. I have 1 brother who is bi-polar with paranoid schizophrenia that raises up once in awhile. So..it's me..for both of them. Right now they don't need any honme care or daily things but I know that since I'm the only one here it will fall to me. Fair? No..reality? Yes. You said you were a teacher..how about a summer job or evening tutoring or something to bring in extra cash so you can pay your brother back at some point? Really..the brother that is complaining is just pinging you so I'd ignore him and then deal with how to make things equitable with the brother that is paying your share.

 

[lizabu]

I think the only fair thing would be to divide the expense evenly 3 ways. Its unfair to expect your brothers to contribute more to make up for you. They obviously had to work hard and make hard choices to get where they are today. They shouldn't be penalized just because they have more money.

 

[seashoreCM]

I too would make a distinction between fair and practical.

I would say (for today October 13, 2011) is not to put hardship on your family to make possible paying your fair share.

I would say (for today October 13, 2011) is not to take out a loan with a commercial source (like a credit card company or a bank).

I would say (for today October 13, 200) is not to withdraw money from a penalty account such as an IRA.

If the three of you want to use a scrip system such as IOU's amongst yourselves that is fine.

For now I vote for contributing in proportion to income. Also seeking outside assistance.

OT: When spouses both work earning different amounts I say that, while they might have separate bank accounts, the amounts each puts in a common account towards living expenses should be in proportion to income.

Family hints: http://www.cockam.com/family.htm