What would you recommend DS19 do?

[NHdisneylover]

Unless there is some very specific educational reason for him to take some classes abroad (a teacher spending a semester studying how early childhood education is handled in a different country, an engineer studying the "green" engineering initiatives in Scandinavia, etc),which it does not sound like there is, I think I will go against the grain and recommend AGAINST the semester in London.

From what I can tell, a huge percentage of students study abroad now--so it will not stand out as exceptional or interesting on an application (and writing about it is probably something so many students do in grad school aps that the readers of those applications roll their eyes when they see yet another one ). Add in that London is minimally different culturally and has no language difference and would seem like a "vacation" more than a serious cultural experience to many hiring managers, and I just can't see how that would be a huge benefit in his future.

For a LOT less money than that extra semester, he could plan on taking a semester after he graduates and spending it living or visiting London, or somewhere else in Europe. Or he could do the same in the summer and not even lose the time.

 

[Cindy B]

Unless there is some very specific educational reason for him to take some classes abroad (a teacher spending a semester studying how early childhood education is handled in a different country, an engineer studying the "green" engineering initiatives in Scandinavia, etc),which it does not sound like there is, I think I will go against the grain and recommend AGAINST the semester in London.

From what I can tell, a huge percentage of students study abroad now--so it will not stand out as exceptional or interesting on an application (and writing about it is probably something so many students do in grad school aps that the readers of those applications roll their eyes when they see yet another one ). Add in that London is minimally different culturally and has no language difference and would seem like a "vacation" more than a serious cultural experience to many hiring managers, and I just can't see how that would be a huge benefit in his future.

For a LOT less money than that extra semester, he could plan on taking a semester after he graduates and spending it living or visiting London, or somewhere else in Europe. Or he could do the same in the summer and not even lose the time.

I completely agree. I would spend more time completing the education and visit some other time.

As for psychology and sociology major, unless there is a graduate school opportunity- I would just change both majors as well.

 

[thedonduck]

I would totally let him go. I went to London for a semester for school (secondary teacher and English major) and it was the most amazing experience of my life.

One of my reasons for suggesting people use a study aboard program is that you will NEVER be able to travel as cheaply to Europe (or any country) as you can as a student. While I was in school i was able to travel to 5 countries for much cheaper than most would spend on a two week vacation. Those experience I carry with me and helped me to become a much more well-rounded person. The culture difference from London and my home town was drastic and it was awesome to be presented with different situations.

Taking classes abroad is an amazing learning experience as well and just being in a new country far away from my parents (and their ability to help if a problem arose) helped me greatly.

If he is expressing an interest in going, have him do the research and let him decide. It is his future and he should really think about if he will regret not going!

 

[violetrose]

I think he should go to London. These kinds of opportunities may not be available to him again. He has no debt so far, a losing 6 months in the workforce when he is still years away from getting a job should not hold him back. I think he will always look back and wish he has gone.

I agree. My DD studied in Madrid in her junior year, the experience was invaluable.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Taking your son's situation into account exclusively....

1) Who is paying for grad school?

2) I would not go abroad and mess up his school because he does have to go to grad school.

3) If he indeed wants to study abroad then he needs to find a solution that works WITH his career path and not against it.

4) Final answer from me is no.

5) I have a dd who should be graduating this yr and is now living at home figuring things out. She did go to China with a research group.

6) What if he does change his major when he gets back? How are the grandparents and you going to feel about that? My nephew did the same thing and now he is not in school. Family is upset that they helped him financially and now he is not in school.

Maybe that won't happen to your son but maybe it will.

Good Luck with your decisions!!! I know how hard it is.

 

[MrsDuck]

Definitely London.

 

[onelilspark]

Go to London.

I was going to do the DCP until I realized I would have to take a few summer classes to graduate on time. So I didn't do it. It is the only thing that I have any regrets about.

 

[ZephyrHawk]

Hoo boy. Okay, some background. In school I concentrated in Behavioral Ecology (which, for the most part, is Animal Behavior). I ended up with a triple major: Biology, Biopsychology and Anthropology-Zoology. After graduating I worked for a year in a behavior lab, then went to law school (bit of a diversion, I know). I'm telling you all of this so that you know I have a similar background to your son's. I was interested in basically the same things he is (although I'm not into sociology so much, I prefer a harder edge to my sciences). I also have experience with multiple majors and how they look on your resume.

The answer to your questions is another question: What does he want to do for a living?

Please note that "going to grad school" does not count. It is a means to an end. That end may be "accademia", but grad school is not a lifetime job. It's what you do to (supposedly) find a better job at the end of it all. Please note that this does not always happen.

Does he want to teach what he studies at the college level? Does he want to get into research? Does he want to become a counselor/psychologist? In all honesty, there's not all that many options open for someone with a biopsych degree; there's even fewer for someone with sociology. Heck the reason I was able to get a fairly well paying research job right out of college I attribute entirely to my Biology (hard science) major. The other two were basically fluff I picked up for the fun of it.

Like it or not, he's got to start focusing not on studies, but on what his studies are for. Getting him a job. Once he has some concept of future employment options, then he can start to ask himself "will a second major in sociology help me get this job?" and "would a sociology major help me get this job more than a minor" (my personal opinion would be no). And then there's other considerations. "Will my experience overseas look good on my resume" (usually) and "will there be more opportunities for me to find gainful employment with my background in the UK" (possibly).

I get that he may not have any firm direction about a career yet. I didn't (hence the law school). Okay, that's not entirely true. I wanted to be Jane Goodall. But sometime in my senior year of college I came to the sad conclusion that there already was a Jane Goodall (I even have a signed copy of one of her books) and that they really didn't need another. Basically, getting into the really interesting research positions in your son's field is really hard. I won't say it's impossible, I'll just say that if that's his goal he needs to expect to work unpaid interships (where he'll have to front his travel and lodging costs) for years to work his way into that world. If he's not willing to do that, then he has to think more practically. He needs to think about what his major can get him. Whether a second major or minor would get him any more. Whether the slightly better prospects he might have with a second major are worth years of paying off even moderate student loans.

Sorry if I'm a Debbie Downer.

 

[HannaBelle]

Hoo boy. Okay, some background. In school I concentrated in Behavioral Ecology (which, for the most part, is Animal Behavior). I ended up with a triple major: Biology, Biopsychology and Anthropology-Zoology. After graduating I worked for a year in a behavior lab, then went to law school (bit of a diversion, I know). I'm telling you all of this so that you know I have a similar background to your son's. I was interested in basically the same things he is (although I'm not into sociology so much, I prefer a harder edge to my sciences). I also have experience with multiple majors and how they look on your resume.

The answer to your questions is another question: What does he want to do for a living?

Please note that "going to grad school" does not count. It is a means to an end. That end may be "accademia", but grad school is not a lifetime job. It's what you do to (supposedly) find a better job at the end of it all. Please note that this does not always happen.

Does he want to teach what he studies at the college level? Does he want to get into research? Does he want to become a counselor/psychologist? In all honesty, there's not all that many options open for someone with a biopsych degree; there's even fewer for someone with sociology. Heck the reason I was able to get a fairly well paying research job right out of college I attribute entirely to my Biology (hard science) major. The other two were basically fluff I picked up for the fun of it.

Like it or not, he's got to start focusing not on studies, but on what his studies are for. Getting him a job. Once he has some concept of future employment options, then he can start to ask himself "will a second major in sociology help me get this job?" and "would a sociology major help me get this job more than a minor" (my personal opinion would be no). And then there's other considerations. "Will my experience overseas look good on my resume" (usually) and "will there be more opportunities for me to find gainful employment with my background in the UK" (possibly).

I get that he may not have any firm direction about a career yet. I didn't (hence the law school). Okay, that's not entirely true. I wanted to be Jane Goodall. But sometime in my senior year of college I came to the sad conclusion that there already was a Jane Goodall (I even have a signed copy of one of her books) and that they really didn't need another. Basically, getting into the really interesting research positions in your son's field is really hard. I won't say it's impossible, I'll just say that if that's his goal he needs to expect to work unpaid interships (where he'll have to front his travel and lodging costs) for years to work his way into that world. If he's not willing to do that, then he has to think more practically. He needs to think about what his major can get him. Whether a second major or minor would get him any more. Whether the slightly better prospects he might have with a second major are worth years of paying off even moderate student loans.

Sorry if I'm a Debbie Downer.

Absolutely not a Debbie Downer and all things he needs to consider. TY for all of your insight!

I firmly believe he will need to go to graduate school to further his education, but that is something he is going to have to choose for himself. I regret not going to grad school, but he is not me. I voted for him to be a veterinarian and then a therapist/psychologist but I keep getting out voted by the only vote that counts, his.

I became a public school art teacher and decided I had made an EPIC mistake about 6 weeks into my first year teaching.

He is only 19 and does not know what he wants himself. He has a couple of years to figure it out.

TY you all again for your insight! I appreciate it.

emma'smom, what do you if you do not mind asking?

P.S. FWIW, I have a bachelor's, master's, and doctorate in Sociology--so clearly it's something I value--but I'd still say go to London and settle for the minor.

 

[NotUrsula]

Go to London. Quite frankly, if he's planning on majoring in sociology, he is not likely to ever be able to afford much overseas travel once he starts working full time.

In a recent survey, Sociology was listed as one of the top 10 worst degrees for ROI. That degree won't give him a lot of discretionary income for travel. (And I'm not knocking the field; I'm speaking from the experience of being in a similar boat, in a field that requires a Masters but pays very poorly.)

BTW, one of the interesting ironies re: majoring in sociology is that you are apparently likely to earn LESS if you pursue a Master's in it. According to Salary.com, the average salary of someone with an MS in Sociology is ~$33K, whereas the average salary of someone with only a BS is ~$42K. Presumably that is because people who lack the masters end up working outside the field.

 

[emma'smom]

emma'smom, what do you if you do not mind asking?

I work at a Sociology Factory!


Kidding---I teach at the college level.

P.S. Many of our Soc majors go into education, social work, law, counseling, seminary, lobbying, and research tanks.

 

[DeaverTex]

Stay in school, here. Even if he's studying in London, it's not the same, and in my experience people who "take a break" from school very often don't come back. He has the rest of his life to travel. Now it's time to take care of business -- stick to the plan.

 

[bluesaturn]

He should definitely go to London, continue with psych and take the soc minor. He should not stay in school for an extra semester just to get the soc major, not worth it if he could easily get the minor.

I'm in grad school for psychology. I would discourage any undergrad from going to grad school in this area unless he really, really, really, really loves it and just can't imagine not going. And even then I'd probably still discourage it.

If I were him I'd actually start getting as many internships or as much work experience as possible at various business/companies. Psych is a nice degree to have for jobs where you just need a degree in something, and you do learn a lot of general and widely-applicable skills. But then I'd take that degree and work outside the field.

If he does go to grad, depending on what type of degree he might not have to pay anything. PhD programs usually waive tuition and pay a stipend for their students to work as teaching assistants or research assistants. You usually still need some student loans because the stipend is like minimum wage (or less than that). But it's nowhere near the cost of law school or med school or the like. But you also make less after you graduate than graduates of those other programs do.

 

[mhsjax]

I completely agree. I would spend more time completing the education and visit some other time.

As for psychology and sociology major, unless there is a graduate school opportunity- I would just change both majors as well.

Totally agree. Now if your son is footing the bill for college expenses and the trip to London, I would say it is totally up to him. If it were my child, I would do my best to make him or her change the major, drop the London trip and get on with what needs to be done in life.

 

[Disney Doll]

I think he should go to London. These kinds of opportunities may not be available to him again. He has no debt so far, a losing 6 months in the workforce when he is still years away from getting a job should not hold him back. I think he will always look back and wish he has gone.

I agree with this.
My niece went to Italy for a the 2nd semester of her junior year of college and it was a MARVELOUS experience for her.
She then came back to finish her BS in Psychology/minor in biochemistry and went on to grad school to become a Physician's Assistant.

Going to Italy did not cause her to forget the rest of college or anything like that. However, my niece had always been very driven and school-focused so her parents were pretty certain that she would not come home and be a "failure to launch". You know your child best to be able to determine if that would be something you needed to be concerned about.

What benefit does a double major vs. a major/minor scenario give him? Is it worth losing the opportunity of London to do the double major instead of the major/minor?

Realistically, with psychology/sociology, most careers are going to require him to have a graduate degree anyhow so he's still looking at more school after the initial thing.

Life experience counts as education too.....

I remember when I graduated from Nursing school, I couldn't find a job. There was no Nursing shortage at that time. I literally applied to EVERY health care institution within an hour's drive of my house. So I worked at what had been my part-time job all through high school and college...that being an ice cream store. I can remember saying to my father "I can't believe I'm an RN and working at an ice cream store for the summer". My father, wise man that he is, said "You'll have your whole life to work. Enjoy this last summer", so I did. I ended up getting called for a job in September that year and have worked as a nurse ever since. So he was right.