What would you do? Help needed

[OceanAnnie]

I'm sorry to hear about your mom. I will keep her and you, in my thoughts and prayers.

You guys have been thrown a huge curve ball. You discussed children up front, it was on the table. You both were on the same page. Circumstances are not on your side. While you both agreed, your husband's issue was not foreseeable. It's a sad, tough predicament you are in.

Having children was (and is) very important to me. But then, so is my marriage. I don't know what I'd do. I like to think I wouldn't give up on either. But I'm certain I would read everything I could get my hands on. I'd want to know why your DH's sperm count is so low (after fathering 2 children) and what if anything can be done about it. How does he feel about having more children, aside from this problem? Is it possible he feels he is too old now and doesn't want to have any more children? That would change the landscape quite a bit, to me.

This book looks comforting:

http://www.amazon.com/Unsung-Lullab...r_1_36?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250308831&sr=1-36

I wish you the best. I hope you don't have to give up your dream of motherhood. And if it's not meant to be, I hope you find comfort knowing you did what you could.

 

[mjkacmom]

Did he by chance have a vasectomy before he met you and avoided disclosing it to marry you?

.[/B][/COLOR]

If he's a Catholic as the OP says, there is no way he had a vasectomy! That's a huge sin in the church. A PP mentioned embryo donation - I'm pretty sure that's a big no-no, too.

 

[TAKitty]

Did he by chance have a vasectomy before he met you and avoided disclosing it to marry you?

I did wonder this, especially when the nurse who gave me his "sample" results asked if he had a reversal. He said he didn't. The drs seem to think that he had an injury at some point. He doesn't remember having one. He has sperm, but anything under 10 million is considered infertile.

He isn't sad about not having kids with me because he has two kids. They are both boys, too. He says he is sad for me.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I did wonder this, especially when the nurse who gave me his "sample" results asked if he had a reversal. He said he didn't. The drs seem to think that he had an injury at some point. He doesn't remember having one. He has sperm, but anything under 10 million is considered infertile.

He isn't sad about not having kids with me because he has two kids. They are both boys, too. He says he is sad for me.

I guess the question is: how sad is he? Is he willing to work with a doctor to get to the bottom of his condition to help you? Knowing you had the conversations about children before you got married, I would want my husband to be on board with the goal of having children together. It doesn't sound right somehow with the perspective of him being happy that he has children so he is okay. To me, it sounds like he might be distanced from the equation because of his contentment (in addition to his medical condition). And that wasn't the agreement you two had in the beginning.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Edited to add: This delimia is bothering me, but i am a ret law enforcement and now a private investigator, also extremly intuative.
Last time a gal posted a charge on her credit card for expensive cosmetics when she does not wear them; dh went along with her thought she found her early Valentines present. However, it was the dh fooling around and eventually admitted it. I was on the target.

BUT, I know that unless he discloses to talk to his doctor, you can not get his information,
I do feel you should talk to your doctor about why dh fathered 2 children easily and now can not.
There are generally only a few things that affect that.
1. The children were not really his
2. That he had an injury or mumps...
3. That he is concealing a vasectomy
4? what ever doc can share

I would play a bit of detective if I were you. IF he is honest, ask if you can get the medical records back to way back.....See his reaction.
Also, could confront him that you would like to know if he had one done before you met.
Maybe go as far as to request any medical records and see what they show,

My husband had a dd 23 and he was 48 when our dd was born, we were not trying, I was on BC.
So he was still real fertile. as was I at 40.
I get an awful feeling about this one too. Sorry,
But really you must too if you are even considering ending the marriage. You must not have the marriage that is forever and ever.
Get him to fess up, I think he will.

It bothers me too. The situation doesn't add up to me either. Something is very fishy.

 

[december]

OP, I can't answer this from a Catholic viewpoint. There are very few Catholics in my area, and what I know about the faith I've learned from the dis!

For me, as a Baptist turned Methodist after marrying dh, this would be a huge dealbreaker. I've always wanted kids. Since I was in kindergarten, my goal in life was to marry and have my babies. I played with dolls, carried babies around the church, and made up names for my future kids. Since I was 15, that goal included marrying my dh and having kids. 21 years and 3 kids later, I love him very much. But he always knew that if I hadn't had kids by 30, I was starting the adoption process. There is no way I could live my life childless. Luckily for us, we didn't have a problem with fertility.

I do have a sister with no kids. She and her dh both have fertility issues. And she had issues that prevented her from carrying a child even if she could become pregnant. I offered to be a surrogate, but she and her dh decided that it wasn't such a big deal for them to be parents. And that is fine since they BOTH made that decision together. It works for them, but it never could have worked for me.

I was a National Merit Scholar, have a degree in Math, and I'm working on a masters, so it wasn't a matter of not having any other goals. Being a mother was just always the most important one. Again I can't see this from your religious viewpt, but if my dh wasn't open to exploring all options, as much as I love him, I don't think I could have stayed.

I don't fully understand why the Catholic Church is against IVF, but what in the world does it have against adopting a frozen embryo that would be destroyed otherwise????? I don't want a religious debate, but that one has me curious.

 

[nuke]

OP, I can't answer this from a Catholic viewpoint. There are very few Catholics in my area, and what I know about the faith I've learned from the dis!

For me, as a Baptist turned Methodist after marrying dh, this would be a huge dealbreaker.

A dealbreaker? over something the guy has no control over? That doesn't say much for your marriage vows. You know for better for worse, in sickness in health?
I'm so glad my husband didn't find my lack of ability to carry a baby a "dealbreaker" for our first 5 years of marriage. I had multiple miscarriages and he was nothing but loving and supportive even though he wanted children as much as I did. It was my problem and he never once blamed me for my lack of staying pregnant.
I married my husband to be married to him...to spend the rest of my life with him..because I loved him. Having children was something that we both wanted but it was not the be all end all of marriage.

I'm shocked at the attitude that you would leave your life partner, the man you love because he can't produce sperm.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I did wonder this, especially when the nurse who gave me his "sample" results asked if he had a reversal. He said he didn't. The drs seem to think that he had an injury at some point. He doesn't remember having one. He has sperm, but anything under 10 million is considered infertile.

He isn't sad about not having kids with me because he has two kids. They are both boys, too. He says he is sad for me.

OP, where did you get the idea that he was too old to adopt? It wasn't from your DH, was it? Just trying to sort all this out.

 

[Liberty Belle]

A dealbreaker? over something the guy has no control over? That doesn't say much for your marriage vows. You know for better for worse, in sickness in health?
I'm so glad my husband didn't find my lack of ability to carry a baby a "dealbreaker" for our first 5 years of marriage. I had multiple miscarriages and he was nothing but loving and supportive even though he wanted children as much as I did. It was my problem and he never once blamed me for my lack of staying pregnant.
I married my husband to be married to him...to spend the rest of my life with him..because I loved him. Having children was something that we both wanted but it was not the be all end all of marriage.

I'm shocked at the attitude that you would leave your life partner, the man you love because he can't produce sperm.

I would guess that she feels as I do - the inability to produce sperm is not his fault and certainly not a dealbreaker. The fact that he refuses to do IVF might be.

 

[Laura]

If he's a Catholic as the OP says, there is no way he had a vasectomy! That's a huge sin in the church. A PP mentioned embryo donation - I'm pretty sure that's a big no-no, too.

Plenty of Catholics use birth control methods that aren't approved by the Vatican. Not all Catholics feel the same way about vasectomies as they do about IVF and abortion; in essence, to them, wasting sperm isn't like destroying leftover blastocysts or terminating a pregnancy. Case in point--my father is a practicing Catholic and has been his whole life. After he and my mom had their third kid, he got snipped. Pregnancy #3 was tough on her and he considered her health a greater priority.

Not to mention in the OP's case it's entirely possible that if he's lying about a vasectomy, he wouldn't want to do IVF because obviously he doesn't want more children. Thus, he is just using Catholicism as an excuse.




TAKitty, I know there are a lot of people posting things that may make you think the worst about your husband. But people are just speculating. It's hard for me personally to understand why a person would leave his/her spouse because of infertility. But assuming your husband does want kids, just not with IVF, there are options that may be available to you to have biological children. AllyandJack certainly mentioned a few avenues that could work with Catholic beliefs.

Also, you both are certainly not too old to adopt a child. I don't know much about Michigan's adoption laws, I'm in Ohio. Laws differ across states and countries. Some places may have cutoff ages, some not, and you don't have to adopt in Michigan if you go the domestic route. I know when I worked briefly at a private adoption agency, we didn't have a cutoff, but we did limit the number of adoptive couples over 40. Mind you, this was for white newborns; at one point we had to turn away birth mothers who were black because we ran out of couples who wanted black or bi-racial children.

 

[Skywalker]

Well I know this is nowhere as "deep" as a child issue, but, I had a slightly similar kind of thing with my husband.

I love dogs, I want to breed them, show them, train them, board them...everything. I adore dogs! My husband knew that when we got married. Then a couple of years after we were married he started complaining about dog hair, the work involved, the cost of boarding if we wanted to go away. Then, he said he was putting his foot down and no more dogs. To make a long story short, yes I would have considered leaving him had he remained firm on that stance. He realized that knowing the person I am (and I was very clear from the beginning) that was unfair to me and he relented.

But...I would NOT have considered leaving my husband if it was not his fault, like if he'd developed a severe allergy or something. Those are the types of things married couples just have to deal with together.

 

[ksjayhawks]

I would check more adoption agencies. You are 35 and he is 42. There are agencies who work with people your age. You might want to check state adoptions/foster care system as well. You might need to adopt a toddler versus a baby.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Well I know this is nowhere as "deep" as a child issue, but, I had a slightly similar kind of thing with my husband.

I love dogs, I want to breed them, show them, train them, board them...everything. I adore dogs! My husband knew that when we got married. Then a couple of years after we were married he started complaining about dog hair, the work involved, the cost of boarding if we wanted to go away. Then, he said he was putting his foot down and no more dogs. To make a long story short, yes I would have considered leaving him had he remained firm on that stance. He realized that knowing the person I am (and I was very clear from the beginning) that was unfair to me and he relented.

But...I would NOT have considered leaving my husband if it was not his fault, like if he'd developed a severe allergy or something. Those are the types of things married couples just have to deal with together.

In the OP's case, the DH doesn't appear to be willing to work it out. That would be a fault IMO, and it would hurt pretty deep. His being content while she is unhappy would hurt. It doesn't appear that the DH is invested in a solution other than to be sad for her. That wouldn't work for me.

Also, there is a realm of possibilities as to why a man that fathered 2 children has fertility problems. It seems odd to me. I'd want to explore it see if there is something that could be done about it.

 

[Scurvy]

Well I know this is nowhere as "deep" as a child issue, but, I had a slightly similar kind of thing with my husband.

I love dogs, I want to breed them, show them, train them, board them...everything. I adore dogs! My husband knew that when we got married. Then a couple of years after we were married he started complaining about dog hair, the work involved, the cost of boarding if we wanted to go away. Then, he said he was putting his foot down and no more dogs. To make a long story short, yes I would have considered leaving him had he remained firm on that stance. He realized that knowing the person I am (and I was very clear from the beginning) that was unfair to me and he relented.

But...I would NOT have considered leaving my husband if it was not his fault, like if he'd developed a severe allergy or something. Those are the types of things married couples just have to deal with together.

Oddly, I was thinking about this exact type of scenerio while reading this thread.

OP, I can understand why you'd consider leaving. I would never have left my husband if he's been unable to have kids, but I certainly would have considered it if he'd been unwilling to have kids. You don't have to answer these questions on here, but is your husband actively pursuing solutions to this problem? Is he going back to a doctor to see if there's anything that can be done to fix his injury? Is he researching adoption laws to find someplace that would let the two of you adopt? If so, then if I were you I would help him with all of that and try to find an option that won't go against his religious beliefs but will help you end up with a child. If you are unable to find a solution that will work, then you have to decide whether you care more about the marriage or about having kids.

If he isn't doing that, I'd be questioning my relationship with him. Did he seem surprised to discover he wasn't likely to father more kids? Or did he seem to take it in stride? Is he the one who told you that you two wouldn't be allowed to adopt? If he seems like he doesn't care and doesn't want to explore your options, that might be a dealbreaker for me. Even if you researched and found someplace that you could adopt, would you want to be a parent with an unwilling or uninvolved partner? I think it's important to sort out where his feelings lie in all of this before you make a decision about bringing another child into the family. Once you do that, you should decide how you want to proceed.

 

[december]

A dealbreaker? over something the guy has no control over? That doesn't say much for your marriage vows. You know for better for worse, in sickness in health?
I'm so glad my husband didn't find my lack of ability to carry a baby a "dealbreaker" for our first 5 years of marriage. I had multiple miscarriages and he was nothing but loving and supportive even though he wanted children as much as I did. It was my problem and he never once blamed me for my lack of staying pregnant.
I married my husband to be married to him...to spend the rest of my life with him..because I loved him. Having children was something that we both wanted but it was not the be all end all of marriage.

I'm shocked at the attitude that you would leave your life partner, the man you love because he can't produce sperm.

You conveniently cut off most of my post. I did not say him being infertile would be a dealbreaker. I specifically stated that we had discussed adoption if we couldn't concieve naturally. I was just a kid (15) when we got together, but always knew kids would be a part of my life. He understood that, and wanted them as much as me. The dealbreaker would be if he REFUSED to consider other options. That is why I pointed out that as a nonCatholic, we wouldn't have the same religious opposition to infertility options that the OP had. Had I not been able to conceive children naturally, his refusal to explore other options would have definitely soured me on our relationship.

I would guess that she feels as I do - the inability to produce sperm is not his fault and certainly not a dealbreaker. The fact that he refuses to do IVF might be.

Exactly!

 

[nuke]

I would guess that she feels as I do - the inability to produce sperm is not his fault and certainly not a dealbreaker. The fact that he refuses to do IVF might be.

It's against his beliefs. The Catholic church believes that every zygot/embroyo is a sacred life. To create that life and then only have a slim chance of sustaining that life is against the entire pro-life stance. Then there is the whole "what to do with the other embryos that we aren't using" thing.
I don't necessarily follow that thinking but I do get what they are saying. If it is against his religious convictions then that is just the way it is. OP knew going into this marriage that he was a Catholic so this should not come as a surprise to her.

I feel for you OP I really do. It's heartbreaking but if your marriage is strong and you believe in the reason you got married you should work this out together.

 

[Disney Doll]

It sounds like you and your DH aren't in the same book, let alone same page about this. And from some of the posts seems like there is a lot of other things going on. You really need to think about your marriage and what you really want. Does your desire to have children out weigh your wanting to stay married to him? And just because he already has children, are you always going to hold that against him?

Im glad you are going to talk to someone. You need to figure out what you need in your life and go from there. Having children may or may not be the answer for you. I hope you do find the answer that is right.

I know you didn't ask for an opinion on this, but I really have issue with someone who gets an annullment like this. I get the ones where someone impulsivly gets married like in Vegas or on a whim. Mistakes like that happen. Should they happen, no, but they do. But for someone who went through the sarcament of marriage in a Catholic Church and then gets an annullment years later bothers me. You practically have to jump through hoops to get married in the church, its not a quick decision. And no matter what you call it in the end, its still a divorce. Just another word for it. It in effect treats it as if it didn't happen. So where does that put his kids? Are they now considered born out of wedlock since his marriage "never happened"?

Please do some real research on annullments prior to discussing something you clearly don't understand. I fear going in to great detail as to turn this post into a religious one.

 

[Liberty Belle]

It's against his beliefs. The Catholic church believes that every zygot/embroyo is a sacred life. To create that life and then only have a slim chance of sustaining that life is against the entire pro-life stance. Then there is the whole "what to do with the other embryos that we aren't using" thing.
I don't necessarily follow that thinking but I do get what they are saying. If it is against his religious convictions then that is just the way it is. OP knew going into this marriage that he was a Catholic so this should not come as a surprise to her.

I feel for you OP I really do. It's heartbreaking but if your marriage is strong and you believe in the reason you got married you should work this out together.

And that's why I said "might." I do not believe as the Catholic church does, so it's hard for me to completely understand, but if my spouse desperately wanted a child (and told me that when we got married) I would do whatever it took to make that happen. The way OP wrote it, made me think he just refuses and that's that. It's hard for me to understand his way of thinking.

 

[lil mermaid]

I would guess that she feels as I do - the inability to produce sperm is not his fault and certainly not a dealbreaker. The fact that he refuses to do IVF might be.

But she knew going into the marriage that he was against IVF, and at the time, she was too. She is only okay with it now because she's been told she needs it to get pregnant.

I guess I can't imagine leaving my husband because of something that was out of his control. Unless, of course, there was something else going on.

I am glad that my DH didn't feel that way and leave me when I had multiple miscarriages.

 

[Disney Doll]

I don't fully understand why the Catholic Church is against IVF, but what in the world does it have against adopting a frozen embryo that would be destroyed otherwise????? I don't want a religious debate, but that one has me curious.

And since we can't do religious discussions here on the DIS, I would recommend that if you are that interested in finding out the answers to your questions about Catholicism, that you do a google search.