What should be done when people on welfare spend money on vacations?

[hentob]

I couldn't care less what people who are on welfare do.

Really? I care what they do Because whatever they are doing--Isn't working Generation after generation after generation. Welfare. We should really start caring MORE what they do with our money. Something is very broken

I think we spend way too much effort as a society being rotten to poor people.

Who are you calling rotten

We give them money. From OUR checks. We give their children Free Lunches. We give their children Federal Student Aid. We give them free day care. We give them housing. We give them free health care. The list goes on and on.

Doesn't sound too rotten to me

 

[cardaway]

We give them money. From OUR checks. We give their children Free Lunches. We give their children Federal Student Aid. We give them free day care. We give them housing. We give them free health care. The list goes on and on.

Doesn't sound too rotten to me

It's like people think that we are taking away everything just because we think the things you listed are enough to ask of us. I'm fully in support of cotinuing to provide everything else on the list.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

I don't think anything should be done with them.

I personally know LOTS of families on welfare. I teach in the inner city. Truthfully, the vast majority of them never go anywhere. The kids have never left the city and it's pretty sad in my opinion. A few kids have taken road trips, but it's almost always to see relatives.

Travel is a learning experience and can help to inspire children to grow up and raise themselves out of their current positions in life.

Travel can also be done extremely cheaply. One person's idea of a WDW vacation could be 5-7 grand. Another family could do it for less than a thousand.

We don't know people's individual stories. I don't think we should worry about who's taking a vacation or not. From the families I've met, I personally don't think people scamming the system by staying at Disney deluxe properties is that big of a problem.

My neighbor receives welfare and SSI and has been very open (for what reason, I don't know--I never asked!) about her income. She lives on less than $12K per year, and raises two children on that money (she also uses disposable diapers and used formula for both of them so those are huge expenses, too). She never goes anywhere. She doesn't even own a car (or know how to drive). I can't imagine how she'd ever have the money to go on vacation, unless a family member paid for it all. Her grandmother is considering taking the whole family to WDW in a year or so. There really isn't anything she can do about the gift of a vacation vs. a cash gift or money to pay the rent, other than turn it down. In fact, her relatives (mother and sister) are already paying some of her bills because she literally doesn't have anything leftover after paying rent and buying necessities (TP, the aforementioned diapers, etc.). IMO, she'd be stupid to turn down a gift of a vacation just because she's on welfare, because her kids literally never do anything. It's almost pathetic.
This is my opinion about anyone receiving any type of assistance, whether or not I approve of that program or that particular person receiving the money. What's done is done (income redistribution), and what's offered is offered (gifts from others). But I can tell you that there is NO WAY POSSIBLE she could afford a vacation of any kind on the income she receives. Maybe the OP was referring only to those who are scamming the system??

 

[MushyMushy]

My neighbor receives welfare and SSI and has been very open (for what reason, I don't know--I never asked!) about her income. She lives on less than $12K per year, and raises two children on that money (she also uses disposable diapers and used formula for both of them so those are huge expenses, too). She never goes anywhere. She doesn't even own a car (or know how to drive). I can't imagine how she'd ever have the money to go on vacation, unless a family member paid for it all. Her grandmother is considering taking the whole family to WDW in a year or so. There really isn't anything she can do about the gift of a vacation vs. a cash gift or money to pay the rent, other than turn it down. In fact, her relatives (mother and sister) are already paying some of her bills because she literally doesn't have anything leftover after paying rent and buying necessities (TP, the aforementioned diapers, etc.). IMO, she'd be stupid to turn down a gift of a vacation just because she's on welfare, because her kids literally never do anything. It's almost pathetic.
This is my opinion about anyone receiving any type of assistance, whether or not I approve of that program or that particular person receiving the money. What's done is done (income redistribution), and what's offered is offered (gifts from others). But I can tell you that there is NO WAY POSSIBLE she could afford a vacation of any kind on the income she receives. Maybe the OP was referring only to those who are scamming the system??

I've BEEN that poor, and trust me, if a family member had offered me that kind of vacation, I would have turned it down flat and maybe suggested that the money could be used for something else -- like clothing for the kids, new household items, some type of repair, etc. Basically anything that would normally be put off for bills.

When I was in that position, vacationing wasn't even on my radar. My kids survived for years without Disney until we made enough money to pay for it ourselves. I know it's almost sacrilege to say because we're all Disney freaks around here, but vacations to WDW aren't a right -- they're a privilege.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

I've BEEN that poor, and trust me, if a family member had offered me that kind of vacation, I would have turned it down flat and maybe suggested that the money could be used for something else -- like clothing for the kids, new household items, some type of repair, etc. Basically anything that would normally be put off for bills.

When I was in that position, vacationing wasn't even on my radar. My kids survived for years without Disney until we made enough money to pay for it ourselves. I know it's almost sacrilege to say because we're all Disney freaks around here, but vacations to WDW aren't a right -- they're a privilege.

Well, I can't argue with your reasoning. You sound like a very responsible person--and apparently you have worked your way out of the position you were in and are now in a much better place. This woman does not have household repairs (she rents an apartment), does not have much in her apartment (but what she does have, her family bought for her), and gets free hand-me-down clothing from people she knows (including me--hey, I'm not using it anymore!). Trust me when I say her kids will NEVER have better lives. She is NEVER going to get a job or get off welfare/SSI. She has flatly stated as much. She will go on being a burden to society (BY CHOICE) as long as she can get away with it, and then she will be a burden on her family. I guess I was thinking of it from her children's perspective. Their lives are pretty bleak. They will never have anything more, and her family is TOTALLY SCREWED UP and I know if they offered the vacation, that would be it. The vacation or nothing. Yes, I agree that the truly noble thing to do would be to turn it down. However, she is never going to be in a better place, so I don't see how refusing to accept such a gift would really be noble, after all. It's not like she's working towards independence or the day when she can take her kids on her own dime. There is no such thing as her dime! (She has never worked a single day in her life.) I suppose having grown up "poor" colors my thinking about this. I cannot stand income redistribution programs as they currently function, but I do know that there are kids out there suffering through no fault of their own. As angry as I am with my neighbor, I can't help but feel sorry for her children. They haven't done anything wrong, yet their lives suck. My son, although wonderful, never did anything to "deserve" the great life he has, either. He just got lucky. I honestly think that if I were in that situation, I WOULD accept the trip, but pay it forward when I was able. The huge difference is that I would be actively working towards that goal. I don't believe in handouts, but neither would I deny my child his one chance at something like this, if it truly were his only chance. JMO.

 

[JoyG]

. I don't believe in handouts, but neither would I deny my child his one chance at something like this, if it truly were his only chance. JMO.

Yup. I know it's hard to speculate since I've never been in that situation... But I have to think if I was on welfare and someone offered me a vacation, I'd accept it in a heartbeat. My poverty stricken butt would be going to Disneyworld! .

I wouldn't ask the giver for the cash instead b/c I actually think that's rude. If they wanted to give you cash, they would have just offered it. Especially since someone who offers you a WDW vacation would probably already know you well enough to realize you can't pay your rent. You don't look a gift horse in the mouth, ya' know?

 

[DisneyFreak72]

I enjoy my disney trip too much to worry about how and why other people are there.

I'd rather provide help to more people who need it, then let someone go hungry because of my paranoia. I feel so lucky to have food, clothing and shelter, a good job and a loving family. It doesn't bother me to share. Judgement doesn't belong to me. My job is to love those around me, and let the big guy upstairs take care of the rest.

 

[DisneyFreak72]

Totally prevent... no way that will ever happen. But the improvement is exactly what you posted.

In the cases I saw personally the people helping them were doing it because the money that was coming in as cash was an incentive to the person helping out with expenses and helping scam the system. If that money was never seen by anybody in the household, my hope is that much of the scamming will go away.

On a side note I just thought of because of a post about single moms and child support, I think shild support should work the same way. Money goes to part of the bills for esentials. No more shopping trips for mom while the kid wears the same clothes for years.

Ummmm.. . Usually it is the mom in the same clothes for years, busting her rear to feed her kids and get them through college all while sacrificing EVERYTHING because her husband couldn't keep his pants on and ran off with someone else.

It steams me when people rip on women who expect father's to pay child support. As if that is some sort of gift!!! That is BASIC responsibility!

 

[Mamu]

I live in a town of some 35,000 people, most of the homes are privately owned, very little apartment housing.

I don't really know anyone on welfare. I do know a few people on SSI who are injured or too sick to work. I also know they have a difficult time making end meet. There sure isn't any money left over for vacations.

 

[Mamu]

It steams me to think a father or mother would turn their backs on their own and not support them. There are NO! circumstances or excuses for not paying child support. If you choose not to except the responsibility of supporting your child then you belong locked behind bar's. Plain and Simple.

 

[MushyMushy]

Yup. I know it's hard to speculate since I've never been in that situation... But I have to think if I was on welfare and someone offered me a vacation, I'd accept it in a heartbeat. My poverty stricken butt would be going to Disneyworld! .

I wouldn't ask the giver for the cash instead b/c I actually think that's rude. If they wanted to give you cash, they would have just offered it. Especially since someone who offers you a WDW vacation would probably already know you well enough to realize you can't pay your rent. You don't look a gift horse in the mouth, ya' know?

I don't know, I don't see it as asking for cash, but rather saying (after an enormous show of gratitude) "Hey, this trip is an awfully big thing, and I can't justify taking it when we're missing out on some basic necessities at home... would it be too much to ask for you to spend that money instead on school clothes for Jimmy and Susie?" I would think that anybody close enough to be giving a person a whole vacation wouldn't find that rude.

Thankfully I was never in that position, so I don't know how awkward it would have really been. I am certain I would NOT have taken that vacation when I had needs at home. Whether I would have asked for those needs to be met in place of the trip, I honestly don't know.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

I have clients who live in public housing (south florida housing is expensive), work hard (full time) and take care of several kids by themselves with no child support from vacant fathers. Anyway, they get food stamps and medicaid but work HARD at jobs that pay little (no education, etc). When they get a little back from their income tax they take their kids to disney for three days (value hotels, packed food, etc) and treat their kids to a little joy. It confounds me when other social workers moan and complain about this. They say things like "they get cheap housing and manage to take their kids to disney and I work hard and can't afford it". I just don't feel that it is wrong. They work hard and use the system to help themselves and their kids. A little vacation is not a big deal. Now if they sat at home and did not work I might feel differently, but even then, I don't know their circumstances (health, abuse, etc) and try not to judge them.

Um, yo do understand that this isn't a "real" tax refund? It's EITC--The earned Income Tax Credit. That would be cash money handed to them by the government. And they're using it to go to WDW rather than other necessities for their children. the reason the social workers can't do this is because they're not getting checks from the government! If they get a tax refund, it's because they actually paid some taxes!

BTW, cardaway, I like your idea of paying companies directly, like the phone or utilities and so forth. Although I'm sure there would be a way to scam that, especially if you didn't live in public housing (i.e., your boyfriend is your "landlord", so the check is paid to him).

We were real poor growing up--my dad had a low paying job, and got laid off a few times when we were actually on food stamps and free lunches. Believe me, it was a temporary thing, not something we were proud of, but you do what you have to do, right? We would never consider a vacation. In fact, my dad would choose to work his vacation time so he would get an extra check.

 

[Alicnwondrln]

Um, yo do understand that this isn't a "real" tax refund? It's EITC--The earned Income Tax Credit. That would be cash money handed to them by the government. And they're using it to go to WDW rather than other necessities for their children. the reason the social workers can't do this is because they're not getting checks from the government! If they get a tax refund, it's because they actually paid some taxes!

BTW, cardaway, I like your idea of paying companies directly, like the phone or utilities and so forth. Although I'm sure there would be a way to scam that, especially if you didn't live in public housing (i.e., your boyfriend is your "landlord", so the check is paid to him).

We were real poor growing up--my dad had a low paying job, and got laid off a few times when we were actually on food stamps and free lunches. Believe me, it was a temporary thing, not something we were proud of, but you do what you have to do, right? We would never consider a vacation. In fact, my dad would choose to work his vacation time so he would get an extra check.

someone on my family got this years. They would just waste it. Instead of using it to better there lives. I used to get so mad she would get it. Thinking who thousands of dollars for doing nothing all year.Nice

 

[MushyMushy]

Um, yo do understand that this isn't a "real" tax refund? It's EITC--The earned Income Tax Credit. That would be cash money handed to them by the government. And they're using it to go to WDW rather than other necessities for their children. the reason the social workers can't do this is because they're not getting checks from the government! If they get a tax refund, it's because they actually paid some taxes!

BTW, cardaway, I like your idea of paying companies directly, like the phone or utilities and so forth. Although I'm sure there would be a way to scam that, especially if you didn't live in public housing (i.e., your boyfriend is your "landlord", so the check is paid to him).

We were real poor growing up--my dad had a low paying job, and got laid off a few times when we were actually on food stamps and free lunches. Believe me, it was a temporary thing, not something we were proud of, but you do what you have to do, right? We would never consider a vacation. In fact, my dad would choose to work his vacation time so he would get an extra check.

Oh heck, yeah! My DH worked through five years of vacation time for the money. That was rough, because I grew up going on vacations (not luxury, but still decent) every summer and I really missed them. But again, DH and I felt they were a privilege and not a right.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Um, yo do understand that this isn't a "real" tax refund? It's EITC--The earned Income Tax Credit. That would be cash money handed to them by the government. And they're using it to go to WDW rather than other necessities for their children. the reason the social workers can't do this is because they're not getting checks from the government! If they get a tax refund, it's because they actually paid some taxes!

BTW, cardaway, I like your idea of paying companies directly, like the phone or utilities and so forth. Although I'm sure there would be a way to scam that, especially if you didn't live in public housing (i.e., your boyfriend is your "landlord", so the check is paid to him).

We were real poor growing up--my dad had a low paying job, and got laid off a few times when we were actually on food stamps and free lunches. Believe me, it was a temporary thing, not something we were proud of, but you do what you have to do, right? We would never consider a vacation. In fact, my dad would choose to work his vacation time so he would get an extra check.

Our church does the pay directly thing, the money comes out of our weekly donations. If you need your electric bill paid, bring the bill to the church and it will get paid. Bring the phone bill to the church and it will get paid-heck, we even pay for basic cable. No questions asked. Sometimes it's just a one time thing, the family is having a rough month and they just need one or two bills to go away. Some folks are repeat visitors. We want to make sure that our parishioners have heat, lights, phone service and access to information. Food stamps help a lot, but they don't cover everything. I don't know how they handle it if someone is clearly abusing the system. I can imagine walking in with that bill or bills is not an easy thing for most people, so perhaps we don't have a high rate of abusers. However, I'm pretty sure bringing the bill in for a week at WDW might raise some issues....

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

Fitswimmer, I think it's fabulous that your church does such a thing--not only are they helping people right there in your community, but the pastor knows the people have a genuine need. I'm sure it's tougher to look a friend/fellow churchgoer in the eye and ask, but I think the community thing is more helpful--for example, if the church knows you can't pay the light bill, they may also be able to arrange a scholarship for your child for summer camp.

When we were kids, my mom would always, ALWAYS donate to the church canned food--they would collect weekly. More than once, the recipient of the canned goods was--us. We kids liked that, because the box would have Spaghetti-O's and things my mom would never buy us. But my mother wouldn't think to NOT donate, just because we had little. Someone else had less, was the argument.

And I think that mentality is what is lacking in the type of welfare people being discussed.

 

[cardaway]

Yup. I know it's hard to speculate since I've never been in that situation... But I have to think if I was on welfare and someone offered me a vacation, I'd accept it in a heartbeat. My poverty stricken butt would be going to Disneyworld! .

I wouldn't ask the giver for the cash instead b/c I actually think that's rude. If they wanted to give you cash, they would have just offered it. Especially since someone who offers you a WDW vacation would probably already know you well enough to realize you can't pay your rent. You don't look a gift horse in the mouth, ya' know?

Who says it has to be cash? Could be groceries or even the rent.

IMO taking a vacation over the essentials is pointing to somebody ready to come off assistance.

 

[cardaway]

Um, yo do understand that this isn't a "real" tax refund? It's EITC--The earned Income Tax Credit. That would be cash money handed to them by the government. And they're using it to go to WDW rather than other necessities for their children. the reason the social workers can't do this is because they're not getting checks from the government! If they get a tax refund, it's because they actually paid some taxes!

BTW, cardaway, I like your idea of paying companies directly, like the phone or utilities and so forth. Although I'm sure there would be a way to scam that, especially if you didn't live in public housing (i.e., your boyfriend is your "landlord", so the check is paid to him).

We were real poor growing up--my dad had a low paying job, and got laid off a few times when we were actually on food stamps and free lunches. Believe me, it was a temporary thing, not something we were proud of, but you do what you have to do, right? We would never consider a vacation. In fact, my dad would choose to work his vacation time so he would get an extra check.

ITA with all of it. When my mom was in that position she would work on weekends so we would have more money for essentials and could off assistance sooner. Not one vacation during those years, but of course that was not the goal. Getting off assitance was the goal.

 

[cardaway]

Double post.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Who says it has to be cash? Could be groceries or even the rent.

IMO taking a vacation over the essentials is pointing to somebody ready to come off assistance.

The sad thing is, we have a society full of folks who spend FIRST on pleasure and SECOND on essentials. How many people are behind on their bills because they HAD to have the iPhone, the plasma TV or the vacation? They may not be on public assistance, but they're still stretched to the limit. I saw on Oprah show once where she said that a MAJORITY of American families are one lost job or one serious illness away from being homeless.

Now, I don't have as much saved as I should, and I'll admit to being a gadget and WDW junkie. However, my mortgage is NEVER late, my utilities are always paid (even when the electric co rips me off for $200 a month!!) and I've only been unemployed for 3 months in my entire working life. If $$ gets tight, I cut what I can and if I run out of stuff to cut-I get another job!