What should be cut first?

[waltsgirl]

My husband is on the school board and has had to make these types of decisions. Believe me the decisions are hard and there have been lots of sleepless nights.

Oh and by the way, my husband is paid $1500 a year. Not his only job although there are days when I think it is. Our district has 6000 children not as large as some of yours but not small.

 

[Hollywoodhaha]

At my school they got rid of the teachers planning period so they teach more classes and lowered their pay.

 

[LilyWDW]

Today, under P.L.102-119, all schools must offer special educational services to eligible 3-21 year old individuals with disabilities.

If the school system doesn't offer a quality education, not only do they have to send the child to a qualified school, they have to foot the bill.

I honestly cannot fathom that anyone believes that cutting special ed is the way to trim fat out of a budget. That is the most disgusting thing I've ever heard on this forum.

Cut it? No...

Start giving as much money to gifted/advanced programs? Yes...

Where do I think they can cut funding? Athletics is a good start. Most of the local High School football and basketball teams are able to go to away games and the like without having to pay anything themselves. It is fully covered. I think this sort of funding can be cut. Make them have to raise funds just like the marching band, math team, or debate team.

But seriously, they have to look everywhere and be sure they are using a realistic budget. This would include special ed, athletics, life sciences, ect. Does the budget match what the programs HAS to achieve? Or is it inflated compared to what is actually needed?

What should we NOT cut? Basic academics (though they should be sure they have no inflated budgets here too. If it can be covered by X amount without loss of performance, then why is it budgeted at Z amount?). Don't cut the computer and science labs...

 

[MM27]

They should start their cuts with non-essential jobs and activities. We have so many facilitators, coaches, etc. that are really not needed. There is a science coach in my school that probably makes about $80,000 and she literally does nothing but come into the classroom, asks the kids questions as they are working in their science groups and then gives me notes about what we did. Because I wouldn't know that otherwise

She is not an administrator so she is not allowed to evaluate teachers and she really doesn't coach at all. She doesn't help us plan, doesn't help during the lesson and her work after the lesson is just a summary. Those are the jobs where the people have to continually tell you how valuable they are because they know they are not and if they were cut nobody would miss them and the show would still go on.

Everyone automatically wants to lay off teachers or complain about our salaries. In my district they sent 4 board of ed members on an all expense paid trip to California to attend a workshop (from NJ). When teachers attend workshops we are only allowed to go one at a time and we must turnkey when we get back. But they send 4 people, pay for airfare, hotel and food as well as workshop fees. How does that help the students?

 

[Forevryoung]

Cut it? No...

Start giving as much money to gifted/advanced programs? Yes...

Actually, if you determine child is truly "gifted" (not just a "special snowflake") then under those same SPECIAL EDUCATION laws, the child is entitled to a free and appropriate education in the least restrictive environment. Even if it means sending them to a school for the gifted.

You know when many more advanced programs became necessary? When teachers were no longer allowed to group children according to ability (for reading, math...) because it was touted as unfair.

 

[Sparx]

Cut it? No...

Start giving as much money to gifted/advanced programs? Yes...

Where do I think they can cut funding? Athletics is a good start. Most of the local High School football and basketball teams are able to go to away games and the like without having to pay anything themselves. It is fully covered. I think this sort of funding can be cut. Make them have to raise funds just like the marching band, math team, or debate team.

But seriously, they have to look everywhere and be sure they are using a realistic budget. This would include special ed, athletics, life sciences, ect. Does the budget match what the programs HAS to achieve? Or is it inflated compared to what is actually needed?

What should we NOT cut? Basic academics (though they should be sure they have no inflated budgets here too. If it can be covered by X amount without loss of performance, then why is it budgeted at Z amount?). Don't cut the computer and science labs...

Gifted is special education. Gifted is protected under the same public laws and are treated the same way. They are funded with the same lump sum that is given to the school for "special ed"

 

[golfgal]

Today, under P.L.102-119, all schools must offer special educational services to eligible 3-21 year old individuals with disabilities.

If the school system doesn't offer a quality education, not only do they have to send the child to a qualified school, they have to foot the bill.

I honestly cannot fathom that anyone believes that cutting special ed is the way to trim fat out of a budget. That is the most disgusting thing I've ever heard on this forum.

I never said I thought it should be cut, I was just commenting on how everyone else wanted to trim the fat yet the 'fat' wasn't what was eating up the budget. Quite frankly I DO think that special education has gone so far overboard but that is a different thread. The problem is that the federal government mandated these programs with promises to fund them and now the burden lies on the individual districts to shoulder the costs. Also, why is it ok not to touch special ed but it is ok to cut programs for the regular students--THEY are the ones that suffer the most in all of this. I can't fathom that anyone would want to cut a school budget period but if it comes to cutting money from a program that services 100's of kids vs cutting a program that gives one on one ratios to kids that can't feed themselves, guess what, there HAS to be some give. If you support fully funding special ed you sure as heck better support fully funding the rest of the school too.

 

[golfgal]

Gifted is special education. Gifted is protected under the same public laws and are treated the same way. They are funded with the same lump sum that is given to the school for "special ed"

In theory this is correct, in practical application it is not. Advanced education is ALWAYS the first to go-and I won't call it "gifted" as very few kids in a "gifted" program are truly gifted, they are just very good students.

 

[cats mom]

How about addressing the sacred cow of government pension/retirement plans? Obviously this is an issue that extends beyond the field of education, but the educators' union in particular has worked some VERY sweet deals in my state.

How anyone thought these deals could possibly be sustainable long term, I have no idea. Yes, pensions are partially covered by pre-funding and investment returns...but not fully, and ongoing health and dental benefits (again, some very sweet deals) are all pay as you go plans here.

As of 11/2009 there were 3,090 retired educators collecting pensions in excess of $100,000 a year in my state. One superintendant is pulling in $235,224 a year. Really?

Teacher/administrator pay may not be fabulous, but I'd love to find anything even close to their retirement benefit packages in the private sector. It just doesn't happen.

 

[LilyWDW]

In theory this is correct, in practical application it is not. Advanced education is ALWAYS the first to go-and I won't call it "gifted" as very few kids in a "gifted" program are truly gifted, they are just very good students.

Sorry, bad choice of terms. I don't think I have ever seen a gifted program in the schools I attended. It almost seems to me that it is not something they want to diagnose (sorry, can't think of another word atm)... maybe because they would HAVE to use money there.

I really believe that the lack of funding for those students is what has been holding the US back in science and math. We need to strengthen our school system as a whole... from bottom to top.

You know, sometimes I hate the internet because it is so much harder to get a point across.

 

[Sparx]

In theory this is correct, in practical application it is not. Advanced education is ALWAYS the first to go-and I won't call it "gifted" as very few kids in a "gifted" program are truly gifted, they are just very good students.

This isn't true. There is an iq cap, and other requirements that have to be met to be labeled gifted, and the tests have to be administered every so often to assure that the students still meet the requirements for services. When I was in public school, the cap was 120, and the student was also evaluated in the classroom and their standardized test scores were taken into account. We were reevaluated every two years, and had an IEP meeting every year. We were mainstreamed, with pull out sessions, and had constant access to a lab to work, instead of being in a classroom, if we so wanted.

The gifted standards are set out by the public laws i cited, and by the IDEA plan, from 04.

 

[kaytieeldr]

If a married couple teach in the same district, only one should be eligible for benefits (family plan) and the other should NOT receive financial remuneration for the benefits

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to deny a worker benefits, or even to alter the benefits available, based on marital status.

The spouse of a fellow teacher gets $$$ for not taking benefits even though their husband/wife is in the same system and a family plan covers the family

As long as this same (payout) option is available to any employee - they can choose a benefits payout instead of the benefit - you can't deny it to an employee whose spouse works there, too.

Also, do people realize what a very small percentage of a school budget after school sports make up? In our district it is less then 5% of the budget. If you really want to look at money hog programs, start examining your district's special education budget then figure out how many students that dollar amount supports.

With Bicker's thinking, all special ed programs should be cut too.

No, on both counts. Five percent is still five percent. That money can be used to retain teachers. A local city's current (FY 2010) school system budget is $133,563,880. Five percent of that is $6,678,194.

tasha99 does a good job of explaining why cutting special education (especially instead of competititive sports?) makes little, if any, sense.

 

[kaytieeldr]

They should start their cuts with non-essential jobs and activities. We have so many facilitators, coaches, etc. that are really not needed. There is a science coach in my school that probably makes about $80,000 and she literally does nothing but come into the classroom, asks the kids questions as they are working in their science groups and then gives me notes about what we did. Because I wouldn't know that otherwise

I'll do it for $40,000! Heck, if I can be out by 1 PM every day, I'll do it for $20,000 - and NO BENEFITS! How's that? Um, where are you? I may have to add transportation costs

 

[OceanAnnie]

How about addressing the sacred cow of government pension/retirement plans? Obviously this is an issue that extends beyond the field of education, but the educators' union in particular has worked some VERY sweet deals in my state.

How anyone thought these deals could possibly be sustainable long term, I have no idea. Yes, pensions are partially covered by pre-funding and investment returns...but not fully, and ongoing health and dental benefits (again, some very sweet deals) are all pay as you go plans here.

As of 11/2009 there were 3,090 retired educators collecting pensions in excess of $100,000 a year in my state. One superintendant is pulling in $235,224 a year. Really?

Teacher/administrator pay may not be fabulous, but I'd love to find anything even close to their retirement benefit packages in the private sector. It just doesn't happen.

I have heard this issue brought up. I think it's valid. I also believe our representatives should have their packages looked into as well.

 

[bicker]

Is there some reason why it would be considered good to disincentivize quality people from pursuing the jobs wherein the most important decisions in our society are made? Is there some glut of fantastic legislators out there, so many fine people interested in doing that job, that there aren't enough such positions for all of them?

 

[OceanAnnie]

Is there some reason why it would be considered good to disincentivize quality people from pursuing the jobs wherein the most important decisions in our society are made? Is there some glut of fantastic legislators out there, so many fine people interested in doing that job, that there aren't enough such positions for all of them?

Yes. People in the service industry are making more (packages) than the people they serve, that's a systemic, non sustainable problem.

 

[bicker]

I was referring to "jobs wherein the most important decisions in our society are made". What were you referring to?

My pulmonologist makes more than me. Is that a problem?

 

[OceanAnnie]

I was referring to "jobs wherein the most important decisions in our society are made". What were you referring to?

My pulmonologist makes more than me. Is that a problem?

Well, I wasn't referring to that sector.

Do the math. We aren't taking in the money to pay those packages. Somethings got to give. We as employers of the service industry are taking a large hit. Lost jobs. Why is it so much to ask of the service industry to do the same? It may save their jobs.

 

[shortbun]

I would cut all the inservice days for the teachers that require them to leave the classroom for the day. The students watch movies, waste time and it really wastes money to pay for the sub. Then they load them up with homework to make up the work. This happened to several classes this week, teachers out for 2 days.

I agree totally with this. Nothing irritates me more than finding out my son has had a sub for 2 days so his teacher can go to a meeting. These meetings can happen before school starts or after it ends-for kids, I mean.

I also think high school sports could be made 'pay to play' with scholarships for kids who qualify.

There seem to be some administrators who could clearly lose their jobs without much detriment to at least the larger school systems.

Start the school day later so teachers could meet in the mornings and cut a period from the class day in high school making electives an after school activity and not for credit.

 

[golfgal]

I agree totally with this. Nothing irritates me more than finding out my son has had a sub for 2 days so his teacher can go to a meeting. These meetings can happen before school starts or after it ends-for kids, I mean.

I also think high school sports could be made 'pay to play' with scholarships for kids who qualify.

There seem to be some administrators who could clearly lose their jobs without much detriment to at least the larger school systems.

Start the school day later so teachers could meet in the mornings and cut a period from the class day in high school making electives an after school activity and not for credit.

So, you want to extend the teacher's school day for meetings, yet they are cutting so they would be expected to do this for free?

Exactly which administrators do you suggest cutting? Who is going to take on their duties and are you going to allow a pay increase for those that now have more responsibilities?

Which electives do you suggest happen after school, advanced biology, AP History??? Again, are you going to allow for more teacher pay to cover those elective times?

Unfortunately people are sadly ignorant about what really goes on in schools. I suggest for all those that think schools are such a waste of money go spend a week shadowing a teacher and find out what REALLY goes on during a typical school day and all the BS teachers put up with and THEN come back here and tell us how easy their job is and how overpaid they are.

For all those that want to cut everything out of schools, you better not post again about how ill-prepared your employees are or how horrible kids are these days as well. You can't have it both ways.