What kind of booster for plane?

[klcason]

Just curious what types of boosters are ok for air travel. I have both the high back and the backless. We will probably be flying on Delta, maybe American. Do the individual airlines have different rules. My children are both over 30 lb and will be 3 and 5. We have never flown with them before so we are not sure what to do??

Thanks,

Kayla

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Recent testing and research have led the FAA to ban the use on aircraft of certain types of child restraints that may be harmful to a child in the event of an aviation emergency. These include booster seats, safety belt extensions (commonly referred to as "belly belts"), and vest or harness devices that attach to an adult or to the seatbelt of the child's own seat. Although some were manufactured before the FAA's ban may carry an insignia and/or language indicating they are approved for aircraft use, please understand that they are no longer permitted.

Delta does not permit the following types of car seats:

booster seats - even if they bear labels indicating they meet US, UN, or foreign government standards.
vest and harness-type child restraint devices. Do not confuse these with approved child safety seats having a harness-type closure for securing the child in the seat.

 

[BrerMama]

What you'll need to do is either gate check the boosters or check them with your baggage (this assumes you're renting a car, if you're not renting, don't worry about bringing them since you can't use them on the plane and towncar services will provide boosters on request). When I go, I'll be checking the booster in a large duffel bag. I've heard that some airlines provide special bags for booster seats, but I'm flying a budget airline and don't know if that will be true and don't want to chance it. I've heard that gate checking may cause damage to the booster because they just throw them on top of the other baggage. They won't let you take them on the plane, though. My 4 year old did fine without it last trip.

 

[Jestocost]

Our DS6 and DD9 have flown dozens of times without boosters. We've always checked our boosters/car seats and purchased special carrying bags for them. Gate checking would be a big pain in the neck and there's really no reason to do it.

 

[safetymom]

The safest place for a child on an airplane is in an apporved CRS based on the child's weight. While booster seats and harness vests enhance safety in automobiles, they are banned for use during taxi, take-off and landing. Although they are permissible for use during the cruise portion of flight, they do not afford the same level of protection as a hard-shell CRS.


http://www2.faa.gov/passengers/childsafetyseats.cfm

 

[disneymom3]

I would carry on a low back booster seat if you are going to be renting a car. On one of our trips, on the way home we had problem after problem and ended up driving home from Chicago. Thankfully I had decided not to pack DD booster in the suitcase as I had on the way down and instead had just stored it overhead on the flight. Therefore she was able to ride in safety. Going to FL, your luggage could be lost so that is the one thing I make sure we have with us--carseat and a change of undies.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by safetymom
The safest place for a child on an airplane is in an apporved CRS based on the child's weight. While booster seats and harness vests enhance safety in automobiles, they are banned for use during taxi, take-off and landing. Although they are permissible for use during the cruise portion of flight, they do not afford the same level of protection as a hard-shell CRS.


http://www2.faa.gov/passengers/childsafetyseats.cfm

Right you are, but, many airlines have expanded this policy to prohibit them entirely. Delta and SWA come to mind immediately.

 

[safetymom]

Seeing as how you can't use them during take off and landing I wouldn't bother taking them on the plane.

 

[klcason]

Thanks for all the info!! I guess it will be really weird NOT restraining the kids. You get so used to it. But if the airline won't allow it then I guess that is that. I guess we will just use the backless booster for the rides to and from the airport. Thanks again!!

Kayla

 

[mcnuss]

I would not let the 3 yo use the lapbelt in the airplane. They really need to weigh 40 lbs.

Please check to see if your high-back booster is ok with your airline. I know there have been lots of changes to the rules about boosters, and I cannot right now put my hands on the documentation, but last I heard, boosters with their own set of shoulder straps (like most of the high back boosters come with) are still ok. If not, I would really encourage you to get out the old car seat and put the 3 yo in it for the plane ride.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by mcnuss
I would not let the 3 yo use the lapbelt in the airplane. They really need to weigh 40 lbs.

Please check to see if your high-back booster is ok with your airline. I know there have been lots of changes to the rules about boosters, and I cannot right now put my hands on the documentation, but last I heard, boosters with their own set of shoulder straps (like most of the high back boosters come with) are still ok. If not, I would really encourage you to get out the old car seat and put the 3 yo in it for the plane ride.

Depends on the airline. Both Safety Mom and I quoted the FAA regs. on this. SWA and Delta do not allow booster seats at all.

But, your advice to check is great and I certainly would.
I also agree, totally, with the advice of findng a car seat for the little one.

 

[NotUrsula]

"SWA and Delta do not allow booster seats at all."

This depends on how you are defining booster seat. DS flew dozens of flights on both those airlines in his Cosco Eddie Bauer High-Back booster when he was still using it with the internal harness. (This is the older model without the armrests and molded cupholders: http://www.babygenie.com/product_details.asp?pid=854). He got too tall for the harness late last year, right around the time he hit 40 lbs. He was 5 at that time.

Certain seats that are convertible for eventual use as booster seats may be certified for aircraft use if the internal 5-pt. harness is still being used. As the FAA defines it, a highbacked carseat that secures the child by means of an internal 5-pt harness is *not* considered a booster seat, and thus may be certified for use on board an aircraft. (Notice I said may be, not will be; it isn't a guaranteed yes, but it is not a universal no, either.)

The bottom line is, if you have a hard-molded highback seat with a 5-pt. harness, read the sticker carefully. Even if the original packaging had the word "booster" on it, you may still be able to use the seat on a US domestic aircraft if your child weighs less than 40 lbs. and has not become too tall for the shoulder harness.

Also, regarding checking a carseat, someone posted above:

"I've heard that gate checking may cause damage to the booster because they just throw them on top of the other baggage."

If you think about it, that's not as likely to cause damage as the opposite scenario, which is having all the other baggage just thrown on top of the booster seat. Thousands of lbs. of baggage, sometimes. Gate-checking is generally less likely to result in damage for just that reason.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by NotUrsula
This depends on how you are defining booster seat. DS flew dozens of flights on both those airlines in his Cosco Eddie Bauer High-Back booster when he was still using it with the internal harness. (This is the older model without the armrests and molded cupholders: http://www.babygenie.com/product_details.asp?pid=854). He got too tall for the harness late last year, right around the time he hit 40 lbs. He was 5 at that time.

Certain seats that are convertible for eventual use as booster seats may be certified for aircraft use if the internal 5-pt. harness is still being used. As the FAA defines it, a highbacked carseat that secures the child by means of an internal 5-pt harness is *not* considered a booster seat, and thus may be certified for use on board an aircraft. (Notice I said may be, not will be; it isn't a guaranteed yes, but it is not a universal no, either.)

The bottom line is, if you have a hard-molded highback seat with a 5-pt. harness, read the sticker carefully. Even if the original packaging had the word "booster" on it, you may still be able to use the seat on a US domestic aircraft if your child weighs less than 40 lbs. and has not become too tall for the shoulder harness.

Also, regarding checking a carseat, someone posted above:


If you think about it, that's not as likely to cause damage as the opposite scenario, which is having all the other baggage just thrown on top of the booster seat. Thousands of lbs. of baggage, sometimes. Gate-checking is generally less likely to result in damage for just that reason.

this is a recent ruling.

From SWA:

Although one might think that any type of restraint device would provide at least some degree of flight safety enhancement, this is not the case. Some child restraints may do a good job of protecting children in automobiles or in other situations, but are not appropriate for aviation use. Recent testing and research have led the FAA to ban the use on aircraft of certain types of child restraints that may be harmful to a child in the event of an aviation emergency. These include booster seats, safety belt extensions (commonly referred to as "belly belts"), and vest or harness devices that attach to an adult or to the seatbelt of the child's own seat. Although some were manufactured before the FAA's ban may carry an insignia and/or language indicating they are approved for aircraft use, please understand that they are no longer permitted.

From Delta:
Delta does not permit the following types of car seats:

booster seats - even if they bear labels indicating they meet US, UN, or foreign government standards.
vest and harness-type child restraint devices. Do not confuse these with approved child safety seats having a harness-type closure for securing the child in the seat.
The child restraint must meet one of the following requirements to be approved:



Like I said, check with the airline.

 

[safetymom]

Checking with the airline is good but it comes down to the flight crew as to whether or not they will allow the booster seat to be used.

It has gotten better with them being educated about the different types but it used to be that each flight could be different because the flight att. didn't know enough about child restraints so they didn't let you use any of them.

If you know for a fact that your seat is certified mention that but in the case of the airlines banning all booster seats you are out of luck.

 

[NotUrsula]

By all means do ask the airline, but be careful just *how* you ask. Be sure that you not answer the question for them.

If you call up or send an email and say, "I have a high-back booster seat, can my 22 lb. child use it onboard the aircraft?" the airline will just parrot back that notice from the website that Gail just cited. Trust me, they won't look up the real regulation.

However, if you phrase the question as: "I would like to have my 22 lb. child use a carseat on board the aircraft. How do I determine if my seat is approved for use on a plane?" you will force them to tell you what their definition of an approved seat is.

FYI: The real regulation (for US-based carriers only) is 14CFR135.128. You can look up the most current revision for yourself, and print your own copy if you like, by going to http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cfr/retrieve.html and typing in the citation in the search windows. (Once you pull up the regulation, you'll note that for the definition of a booster seat, they refer to 49CFR571.213. You'll want to look at that one, too.)

According to the 14CFR135.128, no US carrier can forbid the use of an FAA-approved CRS for a child who meets the weight recommendation, so long as that child is a fare-paid passenger, and so long as the seat can be properly secured.

It has been my experience that most airline ground personnel and reservations agents have never laid eyes on 14CFR135.128; only flight attendants will know the details without looking it up, and they have been known to get it wrong sometimes, too, if they don't normally work a lot of flights with children on board. If you ask as an open-ended question, the customer-service rep will have to look it up to give you an answer. Don't settle for being told what sort of seat cannot be used, keep at them until they tell you the requirements for a seat that CAN be used.

And yes, PITA that I am, I carried a current copy of 14CFR135.128 with me whenever we flew w/ a carseat. I kept it in a plastic envelope taped to the back of the carseat. Somehow y'all just knew that, didn't you?

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by NotUrsula
By all means do ask the airline, but be careful just *how* you ask. Be sure that you not answer the question for them.

If you call up or send an email and say, "I have a high-back booster seat, can my 22 lb. child use it onboard the aircraft?" the airline will just parrot back that notice from the website that Gail just cited. Trust me, they won't look up the real regulation.

However, if you phrase the question as: "I would like to have my 22 lb. child use a carseat on board the aircraft. How do I determine if my seat is approved for use on a plane?" you will force them to tell you what their definition of an approved seat is.

FYI: The real regulation (for US-based carriers only) is 14CFR135.128. You can look up the most current revision for yourself, and print your own copy if you like, by going to http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cfr/retrieve.html and typing in the citation in the search windows. (Once you pull up the regulation, you'll note that for the definition of a booster seat, they refer to 49CFR571.213. You'll want to look at that one, too.)

According to the 14CFR135.128, no US carrier can forbid the use of an FAA-approved CRS for a child who meets the weight recommendation, so long as that child is a fare-paid passenger, and so long as the seat can be properly secured.

It has been my experience that most airline ground personnel and reservations agents have never laid eyes on 14CFR135.128; only flight attendants will know the details without looking it up, and they have been known to get it wrong sometimes, too, if they don't normally work a lot of flights with children on board. If you ask as an open-ended question, the customer-service rep will have to look it up to give you an answer. Don't settle for being told what sort of seat cannot be used, keep at them until they tell you the requirements for a seat that CAN be used.

And yes, PITA that I am, I carried a current copy of 14CFR135.128 with me whenever we flew w/ a carseat. I kept it in a plastic envelope taped to the back of the carseat. Somehow y'all just knew that, didn't you?

I can be a PITA too,
From your link for 14CFR135.128
[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 14, Volume 2]
[Revised as of January 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 14CFR135.128]



(D) Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, booster-
type child restraint systems (as defined in Federal Motor Vehicle
Standard No. 213 (49 CFR 571.213)), vest- and harness-type child
restraint systems, and lap held child restraints are not approved for
use in aircraft

NotUrsula,
SWA is not allowing them, neither is Delta and they refer right back to the TSA and their recent (how recent, I don't know) .

Things change, as we all know. I believe this is very recent as this question has been asked a number of times in the past and I have never seen them banned until the other day.

I have enjoyed this banter and I do thank you for being nice, it is appreciated. I also have a wicked headache from reading those regulations LOL, BUT, the TSA has the final word on it and according to their site, they have banned them from take off and landing and the airlines I quoted have taken it a step further.

Even United has this to say: The following child restraint devices may not be used on board the aircraft: booster seats, belly belts which attach to adult seat belts only, and vests or harnesses which hold the infant to the chest of the adult.

I would be interested to read anything else you may find on the topic.

 

[NotUrsula]

OK, well you *did* ask for it! ;-) This is going to be long, folks!

Gail, the FAA-imposed ban on "booster seats" (quotes intentional) has been explicitly stated in 14CFR135.128 since at least 1998, which is when I first had occasion to look it up. I'm not contending at all that "booster seats" are not banned by all US-based carriers; it is clear that "booster seats" are banned, and they have been for some time. (Darned if I know what SWA means by ''Recent testing and research".) What I'm contending is that the FAA definition of 'booster seat' is very specific, and that a seat that is sold in packaging marked "booster seat" may not always fit that specific definition.

You'll note that the paragraph from 14CFR135.128 that you cited, specifies a definition of what a booster seat is, "... booster-
type child restraint systems (as defined in Federal Motor Vehicle
Standard No. 213 (49 CFR 571.213)) ..."

So, if you go to 49CFR571.213, subsection (4):
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 49, Volume 5]
[Revised as of October 1, 2002]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 49CFR571.213]

[Page 582-621]

S4. Definitions.
Add-on child restraint system means any portable child restraint
system.

Backless child restraint system means a child restraint, other than
a belt-positioning seat, that consists of a seating platform that does not extend up to provide a cushion for the child's back or head and has a structural element designed to restrain forward motion of the child's torso in a forward impact.

Belt-positioning seat means a child restraint system that positions a child on a vehicle seat to improve the fit of a vehicle Type II belt system on the child and that lacks any component, such as a belt system or a structural element, designed to restrain forward movement of the child's torso in a forward impact.

[[Page 583]]

Booster seat means either a backless child restraint system or a
belt-positioning seat.

Child restraint system means any device except Type I or Type II
seat belts, designed for use in a motor vehicle or aircraft to restrain, seat, or position children who weigh 50 pounds or less.
Contactable surface means any child restraint system surface (other than that of a belt, belt buckle, or belt adjustment hardware) that may contact any part of the head or torso of the appropriate test dummy, specified in S7, when a child restraint system is tested in accordance with S6.1.

...
Representative aircraft passenger seat means either a Federal
Aviation Administration approved production aircraft passenger seat or a simulated aircraft passenger seat conforming to Figure 6.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Whew! The elipses refer to subsections I did not paste in, as they are not specifically relevant to this discussion.)

A large part of this particular regulation consists of the requirements for the weight/size of crash-test dummies and the forces they must be subjected to during testing. Elsewhere in this title, it specifies that a Type I vehicle belt system is a lap-only belt, a Type II belt system is a lap-shoulder belt.

According to these definitions, a seat such as the one I used (and linked a photo of), is *not* a booster seat, as long as the integral shoulder harness of the CRS is in place and in use. The key is in the definition of a belt-positioning seat, "and that lacks any component, such as a belt system or a structural element, designed to restrain forward movement of the child's torso in a forward impact."

Now then, the reason that I didn't quote this definition directly in my previous posts is that it is, like any govt. regulation, subject to change. Any parent wishing to fly with a child in a CRS, and willing to argue with an airline about the details, should re-check both of these laws for him/her-self right before the flight date, preferably on the day of departure. Parts of 49CFR571.213 were revised as of last October, but the latest changes have not been published as of today (Jan. 6, 2004). Checking through the hearings on the subject, it looks like the changes refer primarily to the testing standards, but you can't be absolutely sure until the newest revisions are actually published.

One more thing: elsewhere in 14CFR135.128, the stickers that will be on an FAA-approved CRS are very specifically described, right down to the color of the text and the exact wording. If the approval of the seat is conditional based on the presence/absence of the integral 5-pt. harness, the sticker of a new (mfr'd after 1985) seat should say so quite specifically.

 

[mcnuss]

NotUrsula and GailHayden - you are my personal heroes today. There is nothing I like better than a civil disagreement that is backed up with facts. Quoting the CFR has given me shivers! (The lawyer in me is very amused by the darnedest of things...) Your research skills are impressive!

Like most things in the law, it all turns on the definitions. "Booster seat" has become a generic term, but clearly there was a very specific product in mind when they wrote the regs. (FYI - I was denied use of one back in 1999 when stupidly I borrowed one for a flight thinking it would be ok.)

Thank you both so much for providing everyone with this detailed, factual information. Let's keep a link to this thread for future reference since the search function never works!

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by mcnuss
NotUrsula and GailHayden - you are my personal heroes today. There is nothing I like better than a civil disagreement that is backed up with facts. Quoting the CFR has given me shivers! (The lawyer in me is very amused by the darnedest of things...) Your research skills are impressive!

Like most things in the law, it all turns on the definitions. "Booster seat" has become a generic term, but clearly there was a very specific product in mind when they wrote the regs. (FYI - I was denied use of one back in 1999 when stupidly I borrowed one for a flight thinking it would be ok.)

Thank you both so much for providing everyone with this detailed, factual information. Let's keep a link to this thread for future reference since the search function never works!

Thank you!!!! I like NotUrsula and she provides a lot of great info, this latest has been entertaining and informative to say the least, and once this headache goes away, I will be reading more. It amuses me that the government cannot find a simple way to say things.

Bottom line, for me anyway, is call your specific airline or write to them and ask what, if any, boosters are allowed and ask them to site the regulation.

 

[NotUrsula]

Wow, thanks, guys. Pretty soon I won't need an airplane to get to WDW anymore, the swelling in my head will float me there!



I too, love a good civilized debate.