What is the deal with the sizes of ladies clothing?--a vent

Hercules10 said:
Just imagine how us guys have to cope while trying to shop for a woman on her birthday or Xmas. :faint:
Thank gawd for gift receipts!

Thank God for jewelry!! :thumbsup2 . At least those sizes are standardized and they make wonderful presents. ;) Now, I wish women's clothing would come standardized like men's.

I'm 5'4" and that means some manfacturer's think I'm a petite and others think I'm average in pants. It's really frustrating. I've bought some pants that I can only wear some sort of heel with...probably should have returned them, but who wants to pay return shipping all the time?

I'm also big in the chest, which means I should have very long arms and a long torso according to some manufacturer's or that I enjoy my tops to be "busting at the bust." :rolleyes: Whoever said Dolly Parton should design clothes has the right idea!!!

And God forbid I decide to buy a dress...because then I have to get it to fit my chest and hips...and when that happens, it doesn't look like I have a waist because it's hidden in there somewhere!!

And every woman I know has a mutlitude of problems with clothing sizes from the XS to the XXXL. Just where are these "ideal" shapes that designers make clothes for? I'd like to meet her.
 
I'm totally right there with you! I am very short, so this presents a multitude of problems for me. Because of my height clothing manufacturers assume that you have a size 6 waist. I don't at all. Petite length clothes end up being too slim. Regular fit are too long. Maybe the clothing manufacturers should stop assuming things. A size should be a size and that size should be unilateral. I mean I just want it to be shorter not slimmer too! Why is that so hard to grasp?
 
Pants aren't always even the same size within brands. I found a pair of jeans that fit well once. So I bought 3 pairs of the SAME EXACT jeans. Same style number, same size, same color. I get home, and they don't all fit the same. One is an inch longer than the rest. Ones waist is bigger. The pockets on one pair are shorter than the others. I really don't get it.

I'm short. So I really need petite sizes. But a lot of the times the only petites I can find in stores are things my grandmother would wear. I'm sorry, I'm 23, and I'd still like to dress my age. I can't wear juniors because none of their "business" clothes are workplace appropriate. Most of the time I'm stuck buying misses and hemming them myself or wearing a shirt that doesn't fit right. Or I have to shop at Ann Taylor. Her clothes are nice but it's not in my budget to own an entire work appropriate wardrobe from Ann Taylor. Oh, and this is all prefaced with... If the store even still has a petite section.
 
With 25 years of experience in the garment industry, I can indeed confirm sizes are not created equally. Not only are they not equal from manufacturer to manufacturer - but even within a manufacturer's own labels the sizing can be and will be different.

Why?

A manufacturer fits to their "average" customer. So, everything starts out designed to a size medium (or a 6 or an 8) and everything is scaled up and down from there according to average measurement increments. A medium means nothing more than the middle of the size range offered by a given manufacturer for a particular line geared towards a particular customer.

One reason is demographics. For example, the higher end labels most definately have a scale that is geared small. Demographic research finds that the customer shopping at Banana and buying Ralph's Blue Label have more discresionary income, and those same demographics also say that those women are thinner. So, their medium (their average customer) is "smaller". Their size range is scaled accordingly.

Another reason is the target customer. Manufacturers fit to who they identify as their customer. If they are targeting a younger customer - that is who they are going to fit to. Gap, A&F, Hollister are good examples of someone targeting the youth....the teen/twentysomething customer. They haven't had babies (for the most part, lol) - they're not curvasious for the most part. These garments are not engineered for an older woman's body. Gap lost a lot of their older customers when they changed their fit...their response? They have a new line out - with different fittings - to reach the thirty and older crowd. Gap's Forthe & Towne size 6 is definately not equal to a Gap size 6. It's roomier and engineered to fit a body that has seen a little more gravity and life.

JJill is a favorite amongst older and non-Twiggy women because it is specifically designed for the 30something and up woman.

Lastly, sizing is evolutionary. It absolutely does change like people do. The average woman today in any market segment, is not the average woman of the 50's or 60's or 70's....now, (for the most part) we're taller, proportioned differently, and yes, weigh more. So, even though 10 years ago you were a size 8 (average), but are now 10 pounds heavier and still a size 8 - you're still average according to today's standards (as deemed by the specific manufacturer).


The denim dilemna....you could just be choosing the wrong fit or manufacturer. With jeans in particular - you need to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince. In addition to sizes getting mixed up in factories (on purpose and by accident, either because of sewing or shrinkage) denim designers have a specific niche when they build their product. You might find some jeans are are designed for women with thin thighs and long legs and some are specifically built for women with bigger hips and a rounder butt. This doesn't mean they are two entirely different sized women; they just have different builds. So, if a curvy woman happens to buy jeans engineered for a lean woman, then she's going to be forced to buy a bigger size and then deal with the gap in the waist. Conversely, if a thin woman buys curvy jeans, they won't fit in the right places, and will look awful....and, she'll complain about fit!

Manufacutuers rely heavily on feedback from customers....call their customer service dept or make a complaint at the store if you're adament about the sizes being messed up.

I know from experience, that with enough feedback, a manufacture will react. This happened with one of the lines we manufacture for Sears; when it was designed - they were aiming at one customer, but when (Sears) started getting all these calls about size issues - we and they realized they had totally missed the boat on who was buying the line! The size scale was changed accordingly!
 

Frankly, I wish all the manufacturers would scrap the whole size thing and just use measurements in inches. My DH's clothes are not a random size. The shirts have neck, sleeve, and chest measurements, and the pants have waist and inseam measurements printed right on the label. Why can't they do this for women? I really don't think that assigning an aribtrary size number fools women about how much they weigh. We all know EXACTLY how much we weigh.
 
I got so mad about this the other day! I was at the Gap, and found a perfect paid of Bermuda shorts. I tried them on in green, and they were on sale, so I grabbed another pair in pink (Both a size 6!!!) on the way out. So I get home, wear the green ones, and then a week later wanted to wear the pink ones. They barely buttoned closed!! The waist must have been at least a full inch smaller than the green shorts! Luckily they were cheap, because I didn't want to make the drive down again! It's really annoying to have those size differences though.
 
/
Griggle said:
Conversely, if a thin woman buys curvy jeans, they won't fit in the right places, and will look awful....and, she'll complain about fit!

Manufacutuers rely heavily on feedback from customers....call their customer service dept or make a complaint at the store if you're adament about the sizes being messed up.

I know from experience, that with enough feedback, a manufacture will react. This happened with one of the lines we manufacture for Sears; when it was designed - they were aiming at one customer, but when (Sears) started getting all these calls about size issues - we and they realized they had totally missed the boat on who was buying the line! The size scale was changed accordingly!

Thank you so much for this explanation! I guess my main problem is I have more of a thin, boyish shape AND I'm too long legged. Sounds like I just need to start spending more money on clothes to fit the correct demographic. :teeth:

Again, thanks so much for taking the time to write such a great response!
 
I know how you feel!! I'm 5'3". They think if your petite you're tiny too. I'm not tiny (anymore), but not heavy either (125#)... I also wear a 6 or 8, depending on the brand.
 
on a recent shopping trip, in a plus size store, I purchased a pair of jean shorts, a khaki skirt, and 2 pairs of khaki shorts. I bought 3 different sizes. Shirts, the size I wear varies between brands, but at least they are consistent within the brand. Pants - no way.

I order most of DH's clothes on line from a couple different retailers, and look for the same brands NWT on ebay. I can get things for the girls online because the brands I buy online are pretty consistent. But for me? not a chance.
 
I'm another petite (4'10 1/2", and yes, that 1/2" is important! :teeth: ), and I hate shopping, too. Pants are the worst! If I need new black dress pants, I don't even bother looking for the style I prefer. I have to just walk into a store, look through the petites rack, and try on every size 0 to size 6 in hopes of finding something that fits in the hips, rise, waist, butt, and the cut of the legs is okay so that when they get hemmed it won't look rediculous. And when I gained 30 lbs from medication it was nearly impossible to find anything that fit right. I was up to a size 8 or 10 in the waist and hips, but adding 30 lbs didn't make me grow in height! (I wish!!) Ugh. It was a nightmare. (I've lost 20 of the 30 lbs since getting off the meds.)

Petite Sophisticate was the only place where I could regularly find clothing that was resized for petites, not just "shorter", and now they're going out of business!! :sad: Yeah, PS was pricey (at least for my budget), but at least I knew it would fit, so if I really needed something I could save up and get it there. Not that I usually liked the styles (a little old/business-y for me), but it was great for getting a few basics (like black dress pants).
 
liamsaunt said:
Frankly, I wish all the manufacturers would scrap the whole size thing and just use measurements in inches. My DH's clothes are not a random size. The shirts have neck, sleeve, and chest measurements, and the pants have waist and inseam measurements printed right on the label. Why can't they do this for women? I really don't think that assigning an aribtrary size number fools women about how much they weigh. We all know EXACTLY how much we weigh.

I agree 100%. I have a long torso, longish legs and long arms. I can never find long sleeve shirts or jackets with arms that are long enough. Why don't they understand that we have different arm lengths just like the guys. So frustrating. Until a few years ago it was almost impossible to get pants in an inseam longer than 30 inches. They finally wised up on that one. Maybe they'll get the rest of it eventually. I would buy more clothes if they would fit better!
 
helenabear said:
I'm a very curvy 5' size 2 wearing gal. Thanks to vanity sizing as well as misses not going to down to 0 in most stores, I can hardly find a thing to wear. I don't fit in the Juniors department (the hips are too narrow for the waist size... thus giving me a HUGE gap in the back if I get the hips to fit) so I am mostly screwed.

Oh Elaine! :grouphug:
I could have written this EXACT thing! Vanity sizing is the WORST! I finally gave up and found a good tailor. I found that the Ann Taylor Loft petite XS and 0/2 are almost always a good fit, but in pants I buy the regular size 0 and have them hemmed and sometimes have the rise taken up. It's as close as I can get.

As for jeans, yes some of the higher end brands are doing waist sizes now, but the "waist" actually fits around the hips due to the low rise, so while your waist may be 25 inches, you may or may not fit in a 25. I have everything from a 24 to a 28.

It also depends a great deal whether the material is stretch or not. Darker washes tend NOT to be stretch (usually 1 or 2% spandex) and will fit smaller/tighter.
 

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