What is going on with Disney parks?

[LizzyS]

for the thread but you'd have to think about how a tourist does Vegas.

Hoover Dam, Red Rock Canyon and Valley of Fire are all located off the Strip. Hoover Dam isn't technically in Vegas nor is Valley of Fire. Those would require a rental car or booking a tour. Now absolutely you can do that but most tourists going to Vegas for Vegas are going for the Strip. Hoover Dam, Red Rock Canyon and Valley of Fire are also all 3 nature/conservation/history related. Different type of tourist than one going to Vegas for the Strip. If you're not into that stuff you probably wouldn't even think to look for stuff to do.

Now some museums are located quite close to the Strip like the Mob Museum and Neon Boneyard and don't present too much of a hassle to get to and I would argue that the Neon Bonyard is history but presented in a way different way but still.

I think in terms of fantasy, escapism, ability to suspend belief as well as ignore kinda the obvious in terms of what you're paying for isn't something everyone can do or is willing to do. That's ok IMO so long as the person is respectful when sharing their opinions on it because I know sometimes people get a certain way about it.

None of the places I or you have mentioned are very far outside of town (the ones that are, obviously). If you're not into the casino/resort stuff, it's kinda pointless to come here and not leave the Strip, is what I'm saying as the area offers a lot more than the strip.

 

[DLgal]

Just a guess but I'd bet my lunch money on this conversation:
A Bob: Daily guest spending needs to set a record high.
Minion: OK. Water will be $4 a bottle and $20 for a case in the lobby. Call the burgers "American Wagyu" and charge $20. Shall I keep going?
A Bob: People renting or driving their own cars already spend less per day than other guests. They'll skip out on $4 water too >:-(
Minion: $100+ parking fee per stay. Solved!

Accurate.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

None of the places I or you have mentioned are very far outside of town (the ones that are, obviously). If you're not into the casino/resort stuff, it's kinda pointless to come here and not leave the Strip, is what I'm saying as the area offers a lot more than the strip.

You would need a rental car or a tour booked to see them aside from Mob Museum and Neon Boneyard mentioned because they are close enough to the Strip you can more easily get a taxi/rideshare though you still have to be interested in seeing those. I don't imagine the numbers for rental cars are very high for leisure travelers when their main reason is the Strip.

People go to Vegas for a variety of reasons though the Strip is a main component.

Maybe they are there for a bachelor/bachelorette party, a conference, celebrating someone's birthday, and many other reasons and sometimes they don't get much of a choice either; Vegas is often a quick trip not a longer vacation too. Maybe they are there because their spouse likes even if they aren't into it. Who knows. And even though there are other things around people have to be interested in that stuff too to plan to go to those other places.

Anyways kinda a different topic entirely than this thread so I'll just leave it at that for me personally

 

[Alynw]

It's not that Disney has finally out priced lower to middle income families or that they care more about the dollar than its guests cause it's not just the prices of Disney alone that have increased. It's the combined prices of the entire trip that are hurting folks. I thinks it's what, something like 80% travelers that visit Disney annually. The airlines aren't stupid, they know Disney is opening new lands and like everyone else they thought the masses were going to flock to Disney and they have raised their prices as well. Whether people believe it or not, Disney has a huge impact on the cost of everything around it from bread to plain tickets. Honestly, if all we had to do was pay for tickets to get in the park we would all be talking about how cheap it is. It's when u add in the cost of travel and rooms that it starts to get really expensive. So even if people were willing to pay the price increases on tickets it's the cost of travel, hotel and food that they either can't afford or just refuse to pay.

 

[JoeA]

I'm typing this response as I'm sitting at work here in Las Vegas and I'm always so peeved when I see comments like this. (No offense to you, btw.) There are some amazing things to see and places to visit in the Las Vegas area that have zero to do with the Strip, if that's not your thing. I grew up in the South, but I've lived here in the Las Vegas area for 12 years now and it's a great community. Most folks don't leave the Strip when they come and think that's all there is to this place. What about our wonderful museums, Hoover Dam, Red Rock Canyon, the Valley of Fire, etc., etc., etc. Our weather is amazing 9 months of the year, also.

Disney's a business, yes, but it's a lot more than that. It's a company that provides entertainment and actual joy to a lot of people. It's a part of our childhoods, it's a part of our cherished vacations, etc. It's special to millions. How many businesses can say that?

Your husband needs to lighten up, for your sake.

Off topic so I apologize...

I have friends who have been in Vegas since the 70’s and I’ve seen and done what you described but Vegas doesn’t exactly market themselves as “bring your hiking boots”.

That isn’t what pays their bills!

 

[Jhoyer5150]

Unfortunately, the current leadership at Disney views the Parks division as a "cash cow"...i.e. a mature, low growth, low margin business with little ability to "impress" Wall Street. However, despite high labor and capital costs, the park churns out impressive and, importantly, fairly consistent cash flow. This cash stream can then be deployed by Disney to reinvest in higher margin business (media/networks), mergers and acquisitions (a key pillar to Bob Iger's main focus), and lastly to dividends and share repurchases to placate shareholders. Sadly, Iger and Chapek have shown little interest and creativity in anything more than that. I'll grant that Iger inherited some disasters from his predecessor: namely, three gates opened on the cheap in California Adventure, WD Park Studios Paris, and Hong Kong Disneyland. All three required reinvestment larger than the parks original cost within a decade of their opening. Unfortunately, by performing open surgery on these three, other parks that were in better shape were left largely untouched, resulting in Epcot most dramatically and even the MK and DL needing heavy investment belatedly.

So Iger has been - sometimes - willing to spend money - and some of it has been spent well. But too often, Disney has opted for the "cheap fix" or the most generic, IP-laden tie-ins. True originality has been noticeably scarce in the additions of the past decade. And of course Disney has attempted to monetize much of the experience by catering to the very well-off. Look no further than the preponderance of hard ticket events and tie-ins and "premium" experiences. I don't necessarily object to ALL surcharge events or premium tickets - but you have to be careful to show corresponding value for these, and also not cheapen or diminish the non-upcharge guest experience. That's a fine line to walk, and Disney has occasionally stumbled on both sides of this.

Sadly, the haphazard and inconsistent deployment of capital to the parks has shown an increasing divergence the past 20 years between Walt Disney-owned parks vs. the Oriental Land Company's Tokyo Disney Resort, which is the gold standard for a well run and well maintained Disney Park not subject to quarterly budget constraints of Anaheim. The difference today is stark, and growing. Iger is intent on winning each and every quarter....but that narrow vision ends up hurting the Parks division, where a longer term focus can create a timeless guest experience for generations (and, ultimately, a higher company valuation). One can only hope that the next leadership at Disney takes a longer view with respect to the Parks division.

 

[mshanson3121]

Something I have often wondered - does Disney have anyone of "importance" monitoring these boards, so they can get first hand feedback/insight into how their guests feel?

 

[Q-man]

Something I have often wondered - does Disney have anyone of "importance" monitoring these boards, so they can get first hand feedback/insight into how their guests feel?

They locked a good percentage of regular repeat guests into DVCs before cutting everything. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to sell Riviera.

 

[JoeA]

They locked a good percentage of regular repeat guests into DVCs before cutting everything. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to sell Riviera.

We are DVC but find ourselves spending more and more time at Universal. We do Magic Express to the resort and then Uber back and forth.

 

[snappy]

We are DVC but find ourselves spending more and more time at Universal. We do Magic Express to the resort and then Uber back and forth.

Sounds like our next trip.

 

[Candlelady]

We are DVC but find ourselves spending more and more time at Universal. We do Magic Express to the resort and then Uber back and forth.

We are spending less time in the parks and more time exploring other areas. Our DVC only costs the maintenance fees and if I'm paying them, I'm going to use them whether we go to the parks or not. Can spend our days at the pool, go out for a nice dinner at DS, then drinks at one of the many resorts. Rinse and repeat for a relaxing vacation.

 

[Matrix21]

It's not that Disney has finally out priced lower to middle income families or that they care more about the dollar than its guests cause it's not just the prices of Disney alone that have increased. It's the combined prices of the entire trip that are hurting folks. I thinks it's what, something like 80% travelers that visit Disney annually. The airlines aren't stupid, they know Disney is opening new lands and like everyone else they thought the masses were going to flock to Disney and they have raised their prices as well. Whether people believe it or not, Disney has a huge impact on the cost of everything around it from bread to plain tickets. Honestly, if all we had to do was pay for tickets to get in the park we would all be talking about how cheap it is. It's when u add in the cost of travel and rooms that it starts to get really expensive. So even if people were willing to pay the price increases on tickets it's the cost of travel, hotel and food that they either can't afford or just refuse to pay.

True!
They raised prices on everything at once. That made a 2000$ back in the days worth now 5000$.

I still remember in 2012, i paid 1900$ (CAD) /pp for a Suite in AoA, Deluxe Dining plan + 7day /w Park Hopper + Airplane tickets from YUL.

The same trip today would cost me between 3000$-3500$ (CAD) /pp for the same room without the DDP (normal DP) and Airplane ticket. That's steep.

 

[dreynolds1982]

The difference and the reason for people being upset is that Universal has been that way for quite sometime, while Disney "thought it was important" to start charging guests to stay on their on property. Free parking was never (more than likely, as I do not know how things were from day one) a benefit on staying at Universal, where as after many decades Disney decided to take that benefit away, while raising prices and taking other benefits away too. That is why a lot of guests are livid about the new parking charges.

I totally, 10000% get while people aren't happy about it. I wasn't super pleased about it myself. People don't like change, especially if that change hits em where it hurts (i.e. the wallet). Didn't meant to spin this thread off on a tangent about Disney charging for parking tho. I think we can all agree that it stinks and move on from there!

 

[Mikey15]

Your quoting wait times that are normal for some of the basic rides. That is hardly considered busy. The average wait time for ge is under 50 min. Slinky dog that has now been open for a year keeps a longer wait than ge, pandora fop that has been open for years now stays double the wait than ge, mine train, Peter pan all have higher wait times than ge. Swge was expected to start off with these 6-8 hrs waits and Disney designed a specific strategy to control crowds because they were going to be so many people and the wait times so long. The fact is, it just didn't happen. They don't even need to use their crowd control procedures, it's open gate walk ins welcome. So yea, there is people visiting and it is busy but it's no where even close, not even in the realm of what it was supposed to be. At this point, Disney would probably be happy just to see it become comparable to mine train. Blame it on botched opening or whatever u like but bottom line is swge is underperforming and could absolutely be considered a flop when compared to what it was expected to perform. Maybe it gets better once ROTR is open, time will tell.

Sounds like you’re the one waittime jockeying; I’m sharing my observations on the ground of a crowded park full of people enjoying SWGE.

I pose again my question earlier in the thread, just how high does a MFSR wait time have to be before it’s no longer ‘underperforming’? It seems extremely efficient at moving people through and getting them out shopping, drinking, and building.

Will report back for contrast after I’m there again Thursday, but on Saturday it was definitely hopping.

 

[makthompson]

We went to Disneyland in August which is usually a very busy time. There was hardly no one there. It took us less than 5 minutes to get through the turnstiles, which was kind of nice. We only went for one day which was really expensive. There was 5 of us and it was $149.00 per ticket. Luckily I had my chase Disney points and only paid $36 out of pocket, but still not the point. We wont be doing 1 day trips anymore. With the changes that they made all at once I believe is what is killing their attendance. Higher prices, no smoking, stroller restrictions. It did get busier in the late afternoon, but still nothing compared to the crowds they use to have.

 

[dreynolds1982]

However, charging the overnight guests but not the ones parking during the day taking up the space when it's arguably more needed rubs people the wrong way and makes you think more about getting as much profits as possible rather than a logical/sensible reason.

Not sure I follow. I know that Disney describes their parking fees for "overnight hotel guests" but....what other kind of hotel guest is there? I know that security will sometimes let you hotel hop and park at a hotel during the day, especially if you have an ADR, but my guess is anyone parking at a hotel that isn't staying there is a VERY small percentage, and at the ones that people (including myself) used to do that to, like the monorail loop hotels or the boardwalk, are VERY strict typically about not letting day-guests park there. Otherwise, people just parking for the day at the theme parks are still charged (and more than..except for those staying in the deluxe hotels...those paying the overnight fees at the hotels). And, if you're not bringing a car to the resort, like if you took the ME or uber'd from the airport or whatever, you aren't paying any parking fees at all. I get people being upset that they weren't charging but now are. That makes total sense. But also, the way Disney does their paid parking now, when compared to other hotels all around the country that charge for parking, is pretty consistent with industry standards and actually still decently fair.

 

[fatmanatee]

Something I have often wondered - does Disney have anyone of "importance" monitoring these boards, so they can get first hand feedback/insight into how their guests feel?

I would imagine someone is keeping an eye on here every so often, but it's probably not necessary since they get tons of feedback through other channels. They have to be well aware of the stuff people are bringing up here.

 

[cranbiz]

I am also tired of hearing how they are screwing the front line cast members on wages. Some of these people can't afford to live off their pay. A bus driver at WDW makes less than $9/hr, at least they did the last time I looked as Disney posts the wages in their job postings.

I'm not going to defend Disney but it must have been a really long time ago when you looked at bus driver wages. When I started as a bus driver in 2006, I earned almost $13 an hour once I completed training and when I left 5 years later I was at almost $15 an hour.

Are those living wages? No. Should they have been more? Yes. Were they good wages for Florida in general in 2006-2011? Yes, they were. Florida as a state has always been on the low end of the pay scale in the country. Housekeepers and attractions hosts got screwed and I always felt that the company should have paid better but bus drivers did decent.

I will say that all CM's had the ability to get health insurance back then, Disney had low cost health facilities available and had just finished a new facility near Epcot. If you were a good CM, I found that management would do what it could to help you out.

When I was laid off from my FT job with the Orange County Govt IT Department, Disney stepped up and made a FT slot available for me with a simple visit to the transportation VP, who by the way, was approachable, accessible and really meant it when he said he had an open door policy. When later on I found another FT position in my field, I was able to go back to CR status with no stigma's attached. I left to move to NC as part of a new IT job and when I left, I asked if my file could be marked eligible for rehire and that manager had absolutely no problems doing so. I'm not sure if I would do it now but back then, I would have gone back in a heartbeat. The recent changes in fees, cost, etc. don't sit well with me.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Not sure I follow. I know that Disney describes their parking fees for "overnight hotel guests" but....what other kind of hotel guest is there? I know that security will sometimes let you hotel hop and park at a hotel during the day, especially if you have an ADR, but my guess is anyone parking at a hotel that isn't staying there is a VERY small percentage, and at the ones that people (including myself) used to do that to, like the monorail loop hotels or the boardwalk, are VERY strict typically about not letting day-guests park there. Otherwise, people just parking for the day at the theme parks are still charged (and more than..except for those staying in the deluxe hotels...those paying the overnight fees at the hotels). And, if you're not bringing a car to the resort, like if you took the ME or uber'd from the airport or whatever, you aren't paying any parking fees at all. I get people being upset that they weren't charging but now are. That makes total sense. But also, the way Disney does their paid parking now, when compared to other hotels all around the country that charge for parking, is pretty consistent with industry standards and actually still decently fair.

The day guest...

The one coming in for ADRs, shopping and perusing and unfortunately there are guests that overstay their ADRs, shopping and perusing and park there to avoid parking fees for the theme parks or don't move their vehicles once they are done with those activities and just go onto the theme parks. You only have to read various threads to realize that people have a harder time finding parking during the day for certain resorts but voila at night when the parks are closed there's more parking to be had.

They have been getting stricter but it's all over the place there day by day CM by CM--no consistent policy there.

Of course you wouldn't be paying the parking fees if you didn't have a car as a matter of policy although certainly people can be irritated based on principle. However, The parking fee also has been literally all over the place in who is charged and who isn't and even people without vehicles have been charged for parking in error it's honestly a bit laughable how they call it industry standard but can't seem to charge people consistently and accurately something of which hotels in the industry can figure out.

And lol on the industry standard bit..ever since Disney used that line people now use that line. I think we kinda know Disney isn't industry standard on some things. Overnight parking is hardly new but why Disney started charging and how they are charging are not condusive for what they are.

But TBH it's not about adjusting to change. It's easy to use that to explain away people's frustrations but it's more than that

Anyways you mentioned you didn't intend to create a tangent on the parking fee and wanted to leave it at that for another poster and move on so in the interest of that let's just leave it at that as well

 

[RogueX]

I haven't been to SWGE, so I can't say anything regarding that.

In the eternal Disney vs. Universal debate, here's my experience:

Disney is better on the customer service side, atleast in my experiences over the years.

Disney and Universal have both had technical issues with rides, which happens, and it's been a mixed bag on how both parks have handled them.

Theming: Disney is great in terms of Belle's castle, and the general ambience of what's around the rides. I personally like the rides at Disney better.

However, the Harry Potter areas of Universal are incredible. Even before it was expanded, it felt like stepping into the books. The addition just expands onto to that feeling. The Hogwarts Express is a great way to connect the two area and it looks just like the Jacobite Steam Train, which was used in the Harry Potter movies.