What is going on with Disney parks?

[fatmanatee]

As for the economy being a reason where people aren’t going. Where is the idea that the economy is struggling coming from. I see hiring signs everywhere and some fields are even offering sign in bonuses again, which hasn’t happened for 10 years. My wife is a nurse and she gets offers from recruiters all the time for jobs with $5000 sign on bonuses.

The healthcare industry is very profitable. There is definitely some concern about other segments of the economy but it's prob too early to tell if it'll get bad.

 

[fatmanatee]

2) The Millennium Falcon ride. It's Star Tours, except, your in the Falcon. Same pig, different dress.

This is incredible because I think if you asked Star Wars fans what ride they would want in a Star Wars theme park, the first thing on nearly everyone's list would have been the Falcon. If they DIDN'T include a Falcon ride, you'd end up with thousands of angry Youtube videos about it. Obviously there are tons of ideas you could also come up with but I just think it's wild that after making this dream a reality, the reaction from a lot of people is disinterest. And a lot of the criticism is valid! But here we are.

 

[Salohcin83]

True. It's a good thing The Walt Disney Company, Inc. has all of that good will they've built up over the past several years with their most loyal base to fall back on during the hard times.

Right, because when **** hits the fan and the economy start hemorrhaging jobs, retirements get halved, and home values plummet, going to pay to see a fake castle is pretty high up on people's list of things to do.

Be careful what you wish for, even if it's upon a star.

I know you’re being sarcastic but escape is always a big part of what people save for and even go into debt to fund, particularly for the experience for their children.

Although prices have gone up a ton, Disney is ironically more accessible today than ever before because the price of the travel itself and availability of flights is significantly better when compared to average income

 

[mshanson3121]

A lot of the pressed penny machines have been replaced with machines that cost $1 per penny and only use bills or credit cards, no coins (they supply the penny - or, in some cases, just a penny-sized copper disk that was never money to begin with). Some of them also do the pressing part automatically, although some of the new ones still have a hand-crank.

Seriously Disney - leave the simple, fun stuff alone! $1 for a pressed penny? My kids LOVED doing the pressed pennies! But there's no way we're paying $1 a piece. And saving their pennies at home, cleaning them up etc... was part of the fun for them, something to do while they waited for the trip.

3) I think Disney fans prefer more real rides, not the animated rides. We have Universal for these.

This. We don't do these virtual or simulator rides (or whatever they call them). Largely because my family is dealing with either motion sickness or sensory issues, neither of which bode well for these type rides. But also just because, they're "meh". Give us a real ride. Don't just sit us in front of a screen.

 

[GlamMistress]

As for the economy being a reason where people aren’t going. Where is the idea that the economy is struggling coming from. I see hiring signs everywhere and some fields are even offering sign in bonuses again, which hasn’t happened for 10 years. My wife is a nurse and she gets offers from recruiters all the time for jobs with $5000 sign on bonuses.

Depends on the sector. Manufacturing is hurting. Look at ISM data. That's 10% of the economy. Retail is an apocalypse, that sector is in a technical recession. Farming is bad. The bond market is flashing warning signs. Hiring has slowed month over month for many months now. That doesn't mean we're in a recession - we certainly are not. But the cracks are there and if you work in manufacturing or services (another sector that is showing signs of slowing) you are probably pulling back on discretionary spending. Consumer spending was down in August. It's like people are tamping the breaks and waiting to see what will happen. Plus Christmas is coming so people will start to worry about that too.

I'm a big WDW fan. Going on another Disney cruise in February. We are childfree, mid-career and have good discretionary income. I think the prices are insane at this point. I don't know how younger folks with kids do it. I just don't and my hat is off to them.

 

[Tink-osophy]

What about the pressed pennies? What did I miss?

A lot of the pressed penny machines have been replaced with machines that cost $1 per penny and only use bills or credit cards, no coins (they supply the penny - or, in some cases, just a penny-sized copper disk that was never money to begin with). Some of them also do the pressing part automatically, although some of the new ones still have a hand-crank.

Seriously Disney - leave the simple, fun stuff alone! $1 for a pressed penny? My kids LOVED doing the pressed pennies! But there's no way we're paying $1 a piece. And saving their pennies at home, cleaning them up etc... was part of the fun for them, something to do while they waited for the trip.
...

 

[Tink-osophy]

And that's mostly due to the HP author - who retained full creative rights and stayed on UO nonstop to make sure the new lands met her vision and high standards - they wanted to cheap out, cut corners, or take liberties with storylines and characters many times and she shot them down. That's why HP blows people away and Pandora and GE, while thematically and visually beautiful, are still lacking in many ways...

Can you imagine if Rowling did succumb to WDW's offer? What a huge loss it would have been - the parks would be nothing like Universal's.

And THAT might be the saddest and most telling post in this thread. I, like many here, grew up with Disney Imagineering leading the way in theme park attractions. They didn't go for fastest, highest, wildest but they focused instead on immersive and memorable, giving you a reason outside of adrenaline to want to revisit a ride or attraction.

I can understand a new, hungry group challenging them at their own game - creating the Wizarding World and "out-Disney-ing Disney" as many have put it.

But, truly, that's when DI needs to regroup and focus on the essentials, innovate and come back stronger and better. They have the talent. They certainly have the financial backing. Do they have the leadership and the will?

I mean, really we should be saying "Wizarding World is great, but imagine if Disney had the license! They could have done amazing work with Rowling!" and it's a shame that's not the reality (even if it's only perceived reality).

Disney, take note. ...Please!

...I like Disney for being Disney, not Universal. So, if they "fix" whatever is broken at Disney, I hope they do it like the Imagineers of old. Disney was, and still is in many ways, so different than anywhere else, that's what needs to be (re)focused on; the CM's and how they are trained and interact, the fireworks, the parades and shows, the cleanliness of parks and hotels, etc...

Yes! We want them to be inspired by the quality and detail of HP at Universal and apply it to unique Disney in their, previously, unique Disney way!

...I feel like a broken record but I think attractions like Haunted Mansion, POTC, BTMRR, and Splash are the gold standard for Disney attractions. Those exemplify what made Disney the innovators. They didn’t need popular IP or mind blowing ride systems to draw people in. They thrive purely on the creativity, storytelling, and attention to detail that put Disney at the top.

I want that back.

Me, too. They can evolve and, at the same time, respect the angle that has always made Disney great.

I agree! And the value to stay onsite is dwindling. I remember when there were multiple extra magic hours both in the morning and in the evening. Now I see barely any and some paid timeslots. You can definitely get more for your money at Universal. Which is a shame as it shouldn't be that hard for Disney to get it right.

They need to reconsider their current paradigm. ...But will they? Have they not considered where this all this corner-cutting of the Disney experience will eventually lead?

 

[shh]

I don't think it's fair to blame imagineering. Compare "The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh" to "Pooh's Hunny Hunt". The two are operating on a wholly different level despite being, at a casual glance, the same ride. The key difference is Tokyo's management wanted a great ride, and WDWs wanted something cheap to jam in the box vacated by TWR. The is a US management issue that affects both coasts, but is especially apparent in Florida.

Yeah - trust me - it's got nothing to do with imagineering teams who are almost assuredly cringing at the constant compromises and corner cutting they are ordered to do. I work in the creative field and the brilliance writers and designers come up with - vs what the public actually sees after tone-deaf leaders and clients dumb down the work - is truly eye opening and disheartening. Strong, original concepts rarely see the light of day - unless the leaders and decision makers want what's best for the brand and the customers vs their own bonuses.

 

[Tink-osophy]

 

[Tinh]

I found this forum while planning my first trip to Disney World. I have been a Disneyland annual passholder since 1994 when I was in middle school. I have experienced all the ups and downs of the DLR. The opening of the Indiana Jones ride and the memories of the Lion King parade are will always be with me as well as the new Tomorrowland with the Rocket Rods unfortunately. There was the first farewell season for the MSEP with all the great energy from fans saying their goodbyes which in turn became anger and disgust with Light Magic. The 50th anniversary brought the magic of the Remember...Dreams Come True fireworks spectacle only to turn sour with the opening of DCA. As passionate fans of the parks, we are made to endure some really awful decisions from those in charge, but we are also blessed to have these places to escape to. Everything seems to be cyclical and there is always the hope that Disney sees the mistakes and rectifies them. I will always have my complaints and I love hearing all of yours; I will still continue to find my happy place when I visit then think about the negatives once I leave the parks. I will not let my annoyance with the high prices, that I still voluntarily pay, ruin my time there.

 

[MichelinMan]

I don't buy all this 'SWGE has been a flop' argument. Far too early to say that yet.

Speaking personally, as a Brit and a massive Star Wars fan, I'm waiting until next year to visit, when the land will be completed. Also, after our last trip, the wife said she wouldn't ever go back again,due to the cost. But because me and my son are such big SW fans, we managed to convince her to go back one last time - so it has certainly attracted one family it otherwise wouldn't have. And I know lots of other Brits doing the same. So no surprise to me that numbers are down at the moment, but wouldn't surprise me to see numbers next year well up.

However, one big disappointment to us was finding out that the nighttime parade has been scrapped. We used to love that, and can only presume that is part of the cost-cutting, which if true is a real shame.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I don't buy all this 'SWGE has been a flop' argument. Far too early to say that yet.

Speaking personally, as a Brit and a massive Star Wars fan, I'm waiting until next year to visit, when the land will be completed. Also, after our last trip, the wife said she wouldn't ever go back again,due to the cost. But because me and my son are such big SW fans, we managed to convince her to go back one last time - so it has certainly attracted one family it otherwise wouldn't have. And I know lots of other Brits doing the same. So no surprise to me that numbers are down at the moment, but wouldn't surprise me to see numbers next year well up.

However, one big disappointment to us was finding out that the nighttime parade has been scrapped. We used to love that, and can only presume that is part of the cost-cutting, which if true is a real shame.

Many people blame cost cutting for MSEP going away, but I have no idea how they could pull it off with HEA crowds being what they are.

 

[Turksmom]

Yep and those are NOT $300+ a night rooms. For that price I’d like a bathroom that doesn’t feel like I’m in a motel 6. We spent a night there after a beach club stay last year and it felt like the bathroom at the all stars we’d stayed in on our arrival night. I’m sure it was slightly larger but the feel of the quality was the same.

We tacked a CBR night on after YC in June and had a toilet that wasn't bolted to the floor! Sounds like we had the same room.

 

[Mikey15]

I don't buy all this 'SWGE has been a flop' argument. Far too early to say that yet.

Speaking personally, as a Brit and a massive Star Wars fan, I'm waiting until next year to visit, when the land will be completed. Also, after our last trip, the wife said she wouldn't ever go back again,due to the cost. But because me and my son are such big SW fans, we managed to convince her to go back one last time - so it has certainly attracted one family it otherwise wouldn't have. And I know lots of other Brits doing the same. So no surprise to me that numbers are down at the moment, but wouldn't surprise me to see numbers next year well up.

However, one big disappointment to us was finding out that the nighttime parade has been scrapped. We used to love that, and can only presume that is part of the cost-cutting, which if true is a real shame.

I was there today and, while it is a Saturday, I certainly wouldn’t call SWGE a flop today. The land was full of people. MFSR started at 60 minute wait after offsite guests were allowed in and got as high as 85 (maybe 90?) during the day. Tons of droid packages being carried through the park. Long line out the cantina.

I’ll compare and contrast when I’m back in a few days but it was definitely busy and popular. A good 25% of park guests seemed to be wearing Star Wars themed shirts (probably would have been more if not for the 20% wearing their college team shirts for gameday). That doesn’t mean they’re people who wouldn’t have come if not for SWGE (it’s part of a larger Disney vacation for me too) but it definitely shows enthusiasm!

 

[ClapYourHands]

In short, I think it's probably all more the result of cyclical economics, trends, etc. and less to do with the more clickbaity reasons like "automated photopass machines" or "missing character interactions in SWGE." The casual guest, most likely, don't notice, care or even know much at all about those things, and it most certainly doesn't likely impact their decision to visit Disney.

The casual guest might not know about missing experiences (live photo pass photographers, character interactions, etc.). However, when they go, they'll experience the crowds and lines of WDW without experiencing the extra touches that set (or used to set) WDW apart. It's so much more likely to be a one-and-done kind of experience rather than an experience that makes people want to come back as soon as their budget allows.

If they haven't experienced the extra touches, like stumbling upon the Citizens of Hollywood doing an improv show, those new guests won't know to ask for services or entertainment that has been cut, but their trip won't be the standout experience that is going to make them repeat guests. After returning home, they won't look at that awesome candid shot a photo pass photographer snapped, and think, "what a magic moment - I want to go back," because that photo will never exist.

Good hospitality is knowing what the guest wants and providing it before the guest even knows that he or she wants it. That's why Disney has traditionally excelled. It gave the guest, not just what the guest requested, but delightful touches the guest didn't even expect. Now it seems like Disney's thinking is to chip away until they find the bare minimum that guests will tolerate.

 

[jkohmi]

I thing WDWs discounts are a lot like Gap/Old Navy’s, Gap/Old Navy even occurring more. Yet still when I talk to people about where I buy my kids clothing, they often talk about how expensive Gap is and are surprised when I say it’s almost always 40% off.

I think WDW is similar. It might seem obvious, but there are still people not getting discounts. There are also large number of people who travel during holidays where the rooms are at their most expensive and also without discounts. I wouldn’t do it, but someone out there is paying these rates.

I think this is a good analogy. Someone is paying rack rates, and I don't think it's even just people going at peak non-discounted times.

Let's look at this from the view of a random first-timer who doesn't really follow Disney stuff at all. Let's say that have this level of background knowledge: 1) Disney is expensive. 2) People book Disney trip plans waaaaaaay far in advance. It's a year in advance, they've saved up, and they're looking for rooms, but discounts aren't out yet. So they book at rack rate. (Which also really, really reinforces the "Disney is expensive" perception.) They don't know they're supposed to go back and look a few/several months before the trip to see if there's a discount. They don't know that even if there is a discount released, there could be a better discount released later. They don't hang out on Disney forums, they stream commercial-free TV, and they don't even go to the WDW website at all once their room is booked and tickets are purchased because they do their ADRs and FPs from the app (if they even know to book those things at all), so they don't see the ads there.

I don't think this is an uncommon scenario. I have two friends who booked rack rate rooms very far in advance for this past summer and had no idea discounts could be released and applied until I offhandedly asked them if they had gotten good discounts long after summer discounts had been released. Luckily they managed to switch some things around to get discounts, but they definitely would have paid rack rate had I not happened to mention it.

 

[Alynw]

I was there today and, while it is a Saturday, I certainly wouldn’t call SWGE a flop today. The land was full of people. MFSR started at 60 minute wait after offsite guests were allowed in and got as high as 85 (maybe 90?) during the day. Tons of droid packages being carried through the park. Long line out the cantina.

I’ll compare and contrast when I’m back in a few days but it was definitely busy and popular. A good 25% of park guests seemed to be wearing Star Wars themed shirts (probably would have been more if not for the 20% wearing their college team shirts for gameday). That doesn’t mean they’re people who wouldn’t have come if not for SWGE (it’s part of a larger Disney vacation for me too) but it definitely shows enthusiasm!

Your quoting wait times that are normal for some of the basic rides. That is hardly considered busy. The average wait time for ge is under 50 min. Slinky dog that has now been open for a year keeps a longer wait than ge, pandora fop that has been open for years now stays double the wait than ge, mine train, Peter pan all have higher wait times than ge. Swge was expected to start off with these 6-8 hrs waits and Disney designed a specific strategy to control crowds because they were going to be so many people and the wait times so long. The fact is, it just didn't happen. They don't even need to use their crowd control procedures, it's open gate walk ins welcome. So yea, there is people visiting and it is busy but it's no where even close, not even in the realm of what it was supposed to be. At this point, Disney would probably be happy just to see it become comparable to mine train. Blame it on botched opening or whatever u like but bottom line is swge is underperforming and could absolutely be considered a flop when compared to what it was expected to perform. Maybe it gets better once ROTR is open, time will tell.

 

[NickC]

The casual guest might not know about missing experiences (live photo pass photographers, character interactions, etc.). However, when they go, they'll experience the crowds and lines of WDW without experiencing the extra touches that set (or used to set) WDW apart. It's so much more likely to be a one-and-done kind of experience rather than an experience that makes people want to come back as soon as their budget allows.

If they haven't experienced the extra touches, like stumbling upon the Citizens of Hollywood doing an improv show, those new guests won't know to ask for services or entertainment that has been cut, but their trip won't be the standout experience that is going to make them repeat guests. After returning home, they won't look at that awesome candid shot a photo pass photographer snapped, and think, "what a magic moment - I want to go back," because that photo will never exist.

Good hospitality is knowing what the guest wants and providing it before the guest even knows that he or she wants it. That's why Disney has traditionally excelled. It gave the guest, not just what the guest requested, but delightful touches the guest didn't even expect. Now it seems like Disney's thinking is to chip away until they find the bare minimum that guests will tolerate.

Agreed. If my first trip was like my trip in 2018, I would have had a great time for sure....but I probably wouldn't be a once a year visitor.

 

[ClapYourHands]

Mouse hatred is definitely a thing, and justified or not, I'm hearing that more and more, too.

First, people like to root for the underdog, and while I don't think Disney has ever really been the underdog (at least not anytime recently), as they acquire more and more and more of the movie industry, etc, it becomes really obvious how much power they have, and they start looking a little more "evil empire taking over the world" and a little less "wholesome family fun yay"...and I think the people who feel that way probably extend those feelings toward the parks, too, since they're a really prominent part of the Disney brand.

Second, I know at least some of my friends are turned off by the marketing of WDW vacations being a quintessential part of growing up. It's a marketing campaign based on a guilt trip, and I know a couple of people who say they won't ever go because they don't want to reward that. Do I think that's a driving force in decreasing attendance? No. But it's far from ideal.

I think you've just described my husband. I'm the fan. He's the critic.

He and I have...spirited...discussions about WDW's place in our culture. His view is that it's a "fake" place designed to suck as much money from you in as short a time as possible. He sees it as akin to Vegas. And he hates Vegas.

I argue that rather than being fake, it's imagineered. Rather than trying to look for the authentic, I take joy in discovering the small touches and attention to detail that show the art of the creators.

Sadly, though, the new builds seem more about monetization than imagination. I love MK. It's classic and built for the whole family. Even if you can't or won't ride anything wild, or even anything at all, there's plenty for you to do. I remember the first time I rode the train in MK and saw the details on the backs of rides that were not neglected just because people whipping past on BTMRR wouldn't see. Anyone can ride the carousel or people mover. In HS, the only ride everyone can go on is TSMM. In MK, you can probably spend the better part of a day playing Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom as a marathon, and it's totally free. In Epcot, you can play Agent P and take in various entertainments around WS. In AK, go around and do the Wilderness Explorers game in addition to looking at the animals.

In HS, there is no equivalent, and if I want to do an 'experience' in GE, it will cost me $100-$200 (not happening). DD is 4, and while she meets the height requirement (barely) for MFSR, I think it might be a bit too intense, especially as I cannot sit next to her. So while there are definitely cool details to look at in GE, there's not really anything for us to DO there, and some of the coolest things to see aren't accessible to us. Even if I set aside my opinion that Oga's Cantina is ridiculously overpriced for drinks, without guaranteed places to sit, I can't reasonably go with DD. I am actually willing to shell out $7 for a glass of blue milk for her, just to take in the ambience of the place, but I won't because my kid is too short to stand at the bar. Maybe my opinion will change when I see SWGE, but from what I've seen and read about it, I think I might have to concede the argument to my husband on this one. It makes me sad.

 

[dreynolds1982]

Good hospitality is knowing what the guest wants and providing it before the guest even knows that he or she wants it. That's why Disney has traditionally excelled. It gave the guest, not just what the guest requested, but delightful touches the guest didn't even expect. Now it seems like Disney's thinking is to chip away until they find the bare minimum that guests will tolerate.

I'm definitely not arguing that there haven't been relative quality issues, budget cuts, etc. that can impact quality. I mean, I'm a born and raised Disney nerd. Even spent two years working at WDW, one year in the parks, the other year in marketing for Disney corporate. I've seen first-hand the cuts that occur (both FOH and BOH), and they are nothing new (I worked for Disney in 2002 and 2006 respectively) and because, much like a lot of us, I analyze and scrutinize all things Disney, I notice them when I'm at the parks as well. That being said, we will just have to agree to disagree on the idea that Disney is no longer providing good hospitality due to all of these cuts and issues. I am a theme park junkie in general and can say without a shadow of a doubt that disney is still lightyears ahead of all other parks, including Universal, in this regard. I just think that us that are passionate about Disney hold them to such high standards that we tend to be overly critical.

I get why people are upset for sure, 1000%, and everyone is entitled to their opinions on the matter. But I just see right now Disney investing an unprecedented amount of money into their parks, not just in big high profile attractions, but also doing these small hospitality things to make the guest's experiences better (expanding walkways, better organizing security checkpoints, etc may seem boring and obvious, but the whole point of these things is to help crowd-flow better, which in turn helps the guest experience). They aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and there is 10000 times room for improvement, but I also don't think it's the sky is falling situation that some portray it as.