What is going on with Disney parks?

[dreynolds1982]

In HS, the only ride everyone can go on is TSMM. In MK, you can probably spend the better part of a day playing Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom as a marathon, and it's totally free. In Epcot, you can play Agent P and take in various entertainments around WS. In AK, go around and do the Wilderness Explorers game in addition to looking at the animals.

In HS, there is no equivalent, and if I want to do an 'experience' in GE, it will cost me $100-$200 (not happening).

To be fair, since you mentioned Sorcerers of the MK, SWGE has a pretty detailed/involved (and free) mobile game component where you use your phone as a "datapad" to translate languages throughout, hack control panels, uncover secret messages and missions, etc. It's actually something that was done to address the exact thing you're mentioning. It's free, it's easy, there are no lines or waits, and anyone of any age can do it. Now, whether it is of interest to everyone to do, that's a different story. Also, yes the build a droid and build a lightsaber aren't cheap, but a lot of the various shops and restaurants are incredibly themed and detailed, and are visual attractions unto themselves (and are free to explore). They even have a pretty impressive (when it works) animatronic in dok ondar's den of antiquities, and the creature stall has some very cool things to look at and interact with.

As for DHS in general, it is still a work in progress. I think Mickey's Runaway Railroad is an attraction designed specifically to address the issue of "attractions for all ages." And there are still several things in the works down the line for DHS as well.

Not saying there aren't issues with SWGE or DHS of course, there are, but I do think Disney is still trying to aim for the "something for everyone" ideal, bc above all else, it's just good business.

 

[kydisneyfans]

We are AP holders and DVC members at WDW in Orlando. My wife and I have done 1 trip this year, our son got married and he and his wife have done 2 trips. All 4 of us will be going back for a week later this month.

After this trip, it will be 2021 before we return to WDW. Cost is a big issue, the last price increase was big. Our son wants to visit DL in California and do a week on the west coast next year-the early cost is crazy expensive. We are low on DVC points and want to take a year to reload those also.

My wife and I visited DLP a few weeks ago. We lucked out with super cheap flights and, excluding food, found the DLP experience to be actually affordable. Rooms were cheaper, tickets were half the cost. I participated in the RunDisney event and entries were half the cost as it is to run the races stateside at WDW. Our total cost for 4-5 days at DLP including flights was well below what we would spend at WDW or DL for similar visits. Folks may be realizing this and are heading to Paris instead.

 

[Jrb1979]

What is up with Disney is they are pricing out the families that made them what they are. They are now trying to get the wealthy wine mom's and ignore the middle class family. Their obsession with Potion Purple and now Arendelle aqua which caters to the wealthy wine mom's. Disney is going after the demographic that rarely goes over the families who will go at least once a year.

As far as attendance goes, while Disney is down, my local park and a lot of other regional parks, their attendance has gone up.

 

[ClapYourHands]

To be fair, since you mentioned Sorcerers of the MK, SWGE has a pretty detailed/involved (and free) mobile game component where you use your phone as a "datapad" to translate languages throughout, hack control panels, uncover secret messages and missions, etc. It's actually something that was done to address the exact thing you're mentioning. It's free, it's easy, there are no lines or waits, and anyone of any age can do it. Now, whether it is of interest to everyone to do, that's a different story.

How much of what you interact with is only on your phone? Does playing the game change anything in the park? My DD is 4, so translating languages isn't something that's going to be of interest, as she can't even read in English yet. In Sorcerers of the MK, she can hold up a card, and make something happen in the park in front of her. Agent P is a little more advanced, but it seems like the missions are more interactive, either with CMs or with special effects you trigger in the pavilions themselves. It sounds to me like SWGE is basically a video game you play on your phone, and that's where the action stays.

 

[tink2424]

I'm definitely not arguing that there haven't been relative quality issues, budget cuts, etc. that can impact quality. I mean, I'm a born and raised Disney nerd. Even spent two years working at WDW, one year in the parks, the other year in marketing for Disney corporate. I've seen first-hand the cuts that occur (both FOH and BOH), and they are nothing new (I worked for Disney in 2002 and 2006 respectively) and because, much like a lot of us, I analyze and scrutinize all things Disney, I notice them when I'm at the parks as well. That being said, we will just have to agree to disagree on the idea that Disney is no longer providing good hospitality due to all of these cuts and issues. I am a theme park junkie in general and can say without a shadow of a doubt that disney is still lightyears ahead of all other parks, including Universal, in this regard. I just think that us that are passionate about Disney hold them to such high standards that we tend to be overly critical.

I get why people are upset for sure, 1000%, and everyone is entitled to their opinions on the matter. But I just see right now Disney investing an unprecedented amount of money into their parks, not just in big high profile attractions, but also doing these small hospitality things to make the guest's experiences better (expanding walkways, better organizing security checkpoints, etc may seem boring and obvious, but the whole point of these things is to help crowd-flow better, which in turn helps the guest experience). They aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and there is 10000 times room for improvement, but I also don't think it's the sky is falling situation that some portray it as.

I do think you have a point that they are still the best around. The problem is that I think other companies (Universal included) are stepping up their game and may one day overtake Disney if Disney continues on the trajectory that they are currently on. I think that most of us expect that Disney would not be cutting back on the signature service that they have given in the past and actually doing more to make things better for the guests. The company is definitely putting profits first (which I get in a capitalistic environment) but what they fail to understand is that if they put the customer first then the profits will DEFINITELY come.

I really don't have a problem with the ticket price increases as clearly the amount of people coming to the parks was increasing rapidly and affecting guest enjoyment. What I do have a problem with is the cutting back on all the extras - the street performers, number of shows in each of the parks, severely reducing the number of EMHs and the time the EMHs would last, the paying for parking at resorts (let's face it the parking lots were never too full to make this necessary) & all the other "extras" that used to be included in your ticket or your stay at one of the Disney resorts. This is where other companies will be able to come in and do more for their guests and maybe overtake Disney someday.

At the end of the day Disney is still a good vacation but is it as GREAT as it could be? Probably not. The reason we all expect the higher level of service is because Disney told us this is what to expect. So if people are turned off and decide to go elsewhere Disney will have done it to themselves.

 

[LizzyS]

This guy right here, minus the sticker shock

So... I'm not following your reasoning, then.

 

[Chrizwald]

So... I'm not following your reasoning, then.

Unless you replied to the wrong post, i was just saying that i haven't been to Disney before, saw Galaxy's Edge and said "Yeah lets go!", but i did not have sticker shock at the price.

 

[LizzyS]

Just to add to the Disney vs. Universal discussions as far as "what's going on with Disney Parks"... I don't want Disney to become Universal in any way shape or form. I understand the comparisons as far as detail, etc... but from my perspective, I don't like Universal, specifically the rides, and that includes the HP rides, except for the Hogwarts Express.

I like Disney for being Disney, not Universal. So, if they "fix" whatever is broken at Disney, I hope they do it like the Imagineers of old. Disney was, and still is in many ways, so different than anywhere else, that's what needs to be (re)focused on; the CM's and how they are trained and interact, the fireworks, the parades and shows, the cleanliness of parks and hotels, etc...

YES

I know Universal has changed a lot since I went as a child, but I want Disney to stay Disney and not try to replicate Universal.

 

[LizzyS]

Unless you replied to the wrong post, i was just saying that i haven't been to Disney before, saw Galaxy's Edge and said "Yeah lets go!", but i did not have sticker shock at the price.

Oh, ok!

I thought you were implying you had a different problem, haha.

 

[Disxuni]

What is up with Disney is they are pricing out the families that made them what they are. They are now trying to get the wealthy wine mom's and ignore the middle class family. Their obsession with Potion Purple and now Arendelle aqua which caters to the wealthy wine mom's. Disney is going after the demographic that rarely goes over the families who will go at least once a year.

As far as attendance goes, while Disney is down, my local park and a lot of other regional parks, their attendance has gone up.

I kind of concur. The top three "guests" I feel that are typically at the parks: "Once in a life time" savers (maybe twice, but you get the idea), the elite (part of that group being "wealthy wine moms" as you put it ), and people willing to go into debt. Of course there is a few exceptions, but I believe that Disney at this point is aiming for the first two, while also happening to snag the third category, due to people's love, nostalgia, and need for Disney. While "need" may is a bold word. However, I'm sure there are plenty of Disney's audience that feel they "need" to go to, whether for themselves, or their children for many reasons.

I really don't have a problem with the ticket price increases as clearly the amount of people coming to the parks was increasing rapidly and affecting guest enjoyment. What I do have a problem with is the cutting back on all the extras - the street performers, number of shows in each of the parks, severely reducing the number of EMHs and the time the EMHs would last, the paying for parking at resorts (let's face it the parking lots were never too full to make this necessary) & all the other "extras" that used to be included in your ticket or your stay at one of the Disney resorts. This is where other companies will be able to come in and do more for their guests and maybe overtake Disney someday.

While I'm obviously a tiny fish in a big pond and not that important, this is one of many reasons why I'm getting a Universal pass starting this Fall and not renewing my WDW. Even if I plan to go to Disney in the future, I do not know if it'll be just a visit, or another pass in the future, as it feels I'm getting less and less in return.

As for any park, or parks taking over Disney, that will be a very difficult task, but I feel they're getting more competition. Not only the benefits for APs are great for Universal, but with the new park arriving within a few years there will definitely be a decision needing to be made on fans who enjoy both on whether they'll move onto one over the other, whether that's AP, or their yearly trips, or end up splitting their time more and spending less time at Disney and dedicating more time to Universal. Of course this is only one example of competition.

Will they take over? I do not know. Will they be sharing more of the spotlight? Yes.

 

[LizzyS]

I think you've just described my husband. I'm the fan. He's the critic.

He and I have...spirited...discussions about WDW's place in our culture. His view is that it's a "fake" place designed to suck as much money from you in as short a time as possible. He sees it as akin to Vegas. And he hates Vegas.

I'm typing this response as I'm sitting at work here in Las Vegas and I'm always so peeved when I see comments like this. (No offense to you, btw.) There are some amazing things to see and places to visit in the Las Vegas area that have zero to do with the Strip, if that's not your thing. I grew up in the South, but I've lived here in the Las Vegas area for 12 years now and it's a great community. Most folks don't leave the Strip when they come and think that's all there is to this place. What about our wonderful museums, Hoover Dam, Red Rock Canyon, the Valley of Fire, etc., etc., etc. Our weather is amazing 9 months of the year, also.

Disney's a business, yes, but it's a lot more than that. It's a company that provides entertainment and actual joy to a lot of people. It's a part of our childhoods, it's a part of our cherished vacations, etc. It's special to millions. How many businesses can say that?

Your husband needs to lighten up, for your sake.

 

[dreynolds1982]

How much of what you interact with is only on your phone? Does playing the game change anything in the park? My DD is 4, so translating languages isn't something that's going to be of interest, as she can't even read in English yet. In Sorcerers of the MK, she can hold up a card, and make something happen in the park in front of her. Agent P is a little more advanced, but it seems like the missions are more interactive, either with CMs or with special effects you trigger in the pavilions themselves. It sounds to me like SWGE is basically a video game you play on your phone, and that's where the action stays.

I'm not 100% sure TBH as I haven't been yet (going in a few weeks). Even when I go, I'm not likely to play the datapad thing. Might give it a try, but also considering how the MDE app already is a phone batter drain, I'll probably give it a pass. But then again, I'm not the target audience for the Play Disney things or the in park games. I have read reviews that it is fun and a neat interactive element, but beyond that, not sure.

 

[dreynolds1982]

I do think you have a point that they are still the best around. The problem is that I think other companies (Universal included) are stepping up their game and may one day overtake Disney if Disney continues on the trajectory that they are currently on. I think that most of us expect that Disney would not be cutting back on the signature service that they have given in the past and actually doing more to make things better for the guests. The company is definitely putting profits first (which I get in a capitalistic environment) but what they fail to understand is that if they put the customer first then the profits will DEFINITELY come.

I really don't have a problem with the ticket price increases as clearly the amount of people coming to the parks was increasing rapidly and affecting guest enjoyment. What I do have a problem with is the cutting back on all the extras - the street performers, number of shows in each of the parks, severely reducing the number of EMHs and the time the EMHs would last, the paying for parking at resorts (let's face it the parking lots were never too full to make this necessary) & all the other "extras" that used to be included in your ticket or your stay at one of the Disney resorts. This is where other companies will be able to come in and do more for their guests and maybe overtake Disney someday.

At the end of the day Disney is still a good vacation but is it as GREAT as it could be? Probably not. The reason we all expect the higher level of service is because Disney told us this is what to expect. So if people are turned off and decide to go elsewhere Disney will have done it to themselves.

Agree with your points here, especially the shows and street performers. I always loved the streetmosphere people at DHS especially, and I hated to hear about all of the recent entertainment cuts.

For the pay-to-park thing, I'm not as bothered by that. It stinks because it used to be free, for sure, but looking at the grand scheme of it all, Universal, for example, has been having guests pay to park at their on-site resorts from day 1. But I get it though, it stings more because it feels more and more like Disney is nickel and diming guests, even if some of that is more perception than reality (tho I work in PR/marketing so I know ALL too well that perception is EVERYTHING when it comes to a business).

I will say, I love Disney and don't want to see them fail at anything (plus I'm a shareholder so def don't want my stock hurt haha), but as a consumer, if numbers/profits start dipping, it's good for us. It will likely (if past cycles that Disney has gone through are any indication) get their attention and force (hopefully positive) changes. We've seen issues with the parks over the years (some of the Eisner-era insanity comes to mind) that ultimately led to a positive cycle, so if the guests continue to show Disney that "this ain't gonna cut it anymore" then I think we will see things turn around.

 

[wnwardii]

Universal, for example, has been having guests pay to park at their on-site resorts from day 1

I can't comment about from day 1, but as of right now all of the Universal resorts are actually owned by Lowe's Hotels. So they are the ones that are implementing this parking fee. It is not Universal. This is similar to the Swan and Dolphin that have traditionally charged for parking and had a resort fee. They are managed by Marriott/Starwoods.

 

[DLgal]

What is up with Disney is they are pricing out the families that made them what they are. They are now trying to get the wealthy wine mom's and ignore the middle class family. Their obsession with Potion Purple and now Arendelle aqua which caters to the wealthy wine mom's. Disney is going after the demographic that rarely goes over the families who will go at least once a year.

As far as attendance goes, while Disney is down, my local park and a lot of other regional parks, their attendance has gone up.

The "color themed" merchandise is NOT being marketed to upper class moms. Please. It's being marketed to Millennials and younger generations and IG influencers that the these age groups base their purchases on.

I'm a mom, don't drink wine (vodka or gin, please!) and according to the latest Pew research numbers, we just make the cutoff for "upper class", apparently (news to me). I wouldn't be caught dead buying any of that gaudy color themed stuff, save for maybe the basic v neck tee shirts featuring Mickey. Nobody in my peer group buys it either. My sister bought some sparkly ears for her 5 year old daughter, but she wouldn't be caught dead in any of it either.

I will agree that they are pricing a huge group of middle class households out of trips, though. The price increases on everything are starting to be insulting and excessive. I have reigned in my spending on snacks and treats significantly. I just won't pay $6 for a Mickey Bar. I go to Disneyland every week and have been spending less and less on food and merch lately.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm typing this response as I'm sitting at work here in Las Vegas and I'm always so peeved when I see comments like this. (No offense to you, btw.) There are some amazing things to see and places to visit in the Las Vegas area that have zero to do with the Strip, if that's not your thing. I grew up in the South, but I've lived here in the Las Vegas area for 12 years now and it's a great community. Most folks don't leave the Strip when they come and think that's all there is to this place. What about our wonderful museums, Hoover Dam, Red Rock Canyon, the Valley of Fire, etc., etc., etc. Our weather is amazing 9 months of the year, also.

Disney's a business, yes, but it's a lot more than that. It's a company that provides entertainment and actual joy to a lot of people. It's a part of our childhoods, it's a part of our cherished vacations, etc. It's special to millions. How many businesses can say that?

Your husband needs to lighten up, for your sake.

for the thread but you'd have to think about how a tourist does Vegas.

Hoover Dam, Red Rock Canyon and Valley of Fire are all located off the Strip. Hoover Dam isn't technically in Vegas nor is Valley of Fire. Those would require a rental car or booking a tour. Now absolutely you can do that but most tourists going to Vegas for Vegas are going for the Strip. Hoover Dam, Red Rock Canyon and Valley of Fire are also all 3 nature/conservation/history related. Different type of tourist than one going to Vegas for the Strip. If you're not into that stuff you probably wouldn't even think to look for stuff to do.

Now some museums are located quite close to the Strip like the Mob Museum and Neon Boneyard and don't present too much of a hassle to get to and I would argue that the Neon Bonyard is history but presented in a way different way but still.

I think in terms of fantasy, escapism, ability to suspend belief as well as ignore kinda the obvious in terms of what you're paying for isn't something everyone can do or is willing to do. That's ok IMO so long as the person is respectful when sharing their opinions on it because I know sometimes people get a certain way about it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

For the pay-to-park thing, I'm not as bothered by that. It stinks because it used to be free, for sure, but looking at the grand scheme of it all, Universal, for example, has been having guests pay to park at their on-site resorts from day 1. But I get it though, it stings more because it feels more and more like Disney is nickel and diming guests, even if some of that is more perception than reality (tho I work in PR/marketing so I know ALL too well that perception is EVERYTHING when it comes to a business).

Most people with the parking thing is that space is not an issue at Disney. Lack of consistent available parking at the resorts is more of an issue presented for a few nicely located resorts.

However, charging the overnight guests but not the ones parking during the day taking up the space when it's arguably more needed rubs people the wrong way and makes you think more about getting as much profits as possible rather than a logical/sensible reason.

Even with Universal hotels being operated by a different company it is more understandable, perception-wise that is, to charge for parking in their very landlocked area. People don't see that with Disney because of all the land they actually own.

 

[dreynolds1982]

Yeah I totally get the perception issue when it comes to the parking. Whenever you've had something for free and then all of a sudden have to pay for it, there's going to definitely be issues regardless of if the reasons are valid or not. I don't have access to the ins and outs of why Disney made the decision to charge for parking, so I'm not going to try and guess. That being said, I doubt it was made without some form of valid reasoning. But again, perception matters, and it definitely doesn't help in that regard.

 

[Disxuni]

While technically that's true, if UO thought it was important for guests staying at one of these Universal branded hotels to have free parking, they could make it happen, I'm sure. My point wasn't to put down UO or anything for that though, just to say that it's a fairly common practice in general. Sort of like when you stay at a hotel in the downtown of a city. Whether you like it or not, you're going to pay for parking, sometimes insane amounts ($39/nt for mandatory valet in one place I stayed near ATL!).

The "If Universal thought it was important..." argument about parking is not an accurate claim. A business cannot make another business do things without negotiates, contracts, and with willing to compromise. While we do not know if Universal feels it's important, or not, but one thing we know is, no, Universal cannot make them do anything. Loews owns it. It doesn't matter how much a company wants something. If another company has it, they can kiss up, or argue until their blue in the face and nothing will change unless that other party is willing to give it, or change. Whether it's been discussed, or not, we don't know.

The difference and the reason for people being upset is that Universal has been that way for quite sometime, while Disney "thought it was important" to start charging guests to stay on their on property. Free parking was never (more than likely, as I do not know how things were from day one) a benefit on staying at Universal, where as after many decades Disney decided to take that benefit away, while raising prices and taking other benefits away too. That is why a lot of guests are livid about the new parking charges.

 

[Heather07438]

Yeah I totally get the perception issue when it comes to the parking. Whenever you've had something for free and then all of a sudden have to pay for it, there's going to definitely be issues regardless of if the reasons are valid or not. I don't have access to the ins and outs of why Disney made the decision to charge for parking, so I'm not going to try and guess. That being said, I doubt it was made without some form of valid reasoning. But again, perception matters, and it definitely doesn't help in that regard.

Just a guess but I'd bet my lunch money on this conversation:
A Bob: Daily guest spending needs to set a record high.
Minion: OK. Water will be $4 a bottle and $20 for a case in the lobby. Call the burgers "American Wagyu" and charge $20. Shall I keep going?
A Bob: People renting or driving their own cars already spend less per day than other guests. They'll skip out on $4 water too >:-(
Minion: $100+ parking fee per stay. Solved!