What is going on with Disney parks?

[Searc]

And that's mostly due to the HP author - who retained full creative rights and stayed on UO nonstop to make sure the new lands met her vision and high standards - they wanted to cheap out, cut corners, or take liberties with storylines and characters many times and she shot them down. That's why HP blows people away and Pandora and GE, while thematically and visually beautiful, are still lacking in many ways. WDW didn't have a gatekeeper like that to hold their corporate/non-creative execs' feet to the fire integrity and quality-wise.

That's why Rowling passed on letting Disney bring her books to life. They wouldn't give her creative control and look at the differences between Pandora and the Potter areas at Universal.

 

[SaintsManiac]

That's why Rowling passed on letting Disney bring her books to life. They wouldn't give her creative control and look at the differences between Pandora and the Potter areas at Universal.

And I thank her for this.

 

[Searc]

And I thank her for this.

I am not a Potter fan and have never read any of the books, but I am glad she stuck to her guns and was able to see her books come to life the way *she* wanted them to be, not what Disney wanted to make them.

 

[shh]

I am not a Potter fan and have never read any of the books, but I am glad she stuck to her guns and was able to see her books come to life the way *she* wanted them to be, not what Disney wanted to make them.

Can you imagine if Rowling did succumb to WDW's offer? What a huge loss it would have been - the parks would be nothing like Universal's.

 

[Fanboy]

Can you imagine if Rowling did succumb to WDW's offer? What a huge loss it would have been - the parks would be nothing like Universal's.

And THAT might be the saddest and most telling post in this thread. I, like many here, grew up with Disney Imagineering leading the way in theme park attractions. They didn't go for fastest, highest, wildest but they focused instead on immersive and memorable, giving you a reason outside of adrenaline to want to revisit a ride or attraction.

I can understand a new, hungry group challenging them at their own game - creating the Wizarding World and "out-Disney-ing Disney" as many have put it.

But, truly, that's when DI needs to regroup and focus on the essentials, innovate and come back stronger and better. They have the talent. They certainly have the financial backing. Do they have the leadership and the will?

I mean, really we should be saying "Wizarding World is great, but imagine if Disney had the license! They could have done amazing work with Rowling!" and it's a shame that's not the reality (even if it's only perceived reality).

 

[Alynw]

I got a co-worker buddy currently at MK and he just sent me a pic of the park with the castle and asked me if noticed anything different. I was looking at the castle and told him no and he said look again and count how many people are in the picture. Wow, I can't believe it, there were literally only a few people. He is a DVC member and has been over 10yr and he said he hasn't seen it this dead since he was going with his parents years ago, unbelievable how slow it is. He goes the same time every year and would always come back to work and complain how crowded it was and how he wished it use to be like it was years ago, well he got his wish this trip.

 

[adam.adbe]

But, truly, that's when DI needs to regroup and focus on the essentials, innovate and come back stronger and better. They have the talent. They certainly have the financial backing. Do they have the leadership and the will?

I don't think it's fair to blame imagineering. Compare "The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh" to "Pooh's Hunny Hunt". The two are operating on a wholly different level despite being, at a casual glance, the same ride. The key difference is Tokyo's management wanted a great ride, and WDWs wanted something cheap to jam in the box vacated by TWR. The is a US management issue that affects both coasts, but is especially apparent in Florida.

 

[Moliphino]

I don't think it's fair to blame imagineering. Compare "The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh" to "Pooh's Hunny Hunt". The two are operating on a wholly different level despite being, at a casual glance, the same ride. The key difference is Tokyo's management wanted a great ride, and WDWs wanted something cheap to jam in the box vacated by TWR. The is a US management issue that affects both coasts, but is especially apparent in Florida.

The one in Disneyland is even worse, if I'm remembering correctly. The ride vehicle doesn't float or bounce like the one in WDW.

 

[Chrizwald]

I was thinking about this last night and what I thought of was this-

How many Star Wars fans do you think said "Oh cool, let's go to Disney and check out Galaxy's Edge!", but are not regular park visitors (or have maybe been once or twice as a child) and received a hefty case of sticker shock when they priced out a Disney vacation?

I bet it's quite a few.

This guy right here, minus the sticker shock

 

[TDSAXX]

And THAT might be the saddest and most telling post in this thread. I, like many here, grew up with Disney Imagineering leading the way in theme park attractions. They didn't go for fastest, highest, wildest but they focused instead on immersive and memorable, giving you a reason outside of adrenaline to want to revisit a ride or attraction.

I can understand a new, hungry group challenging them at their own game - creating the Wizarding World and "out-Disney-ing Disney" as many have put it.

For years Avis Rent a Car used the tag line “We’re number 2, we try harder.” Right now Universal is number 2 and they seem to be trying harder than Disney.

 

[DarthGallifrey]

Quite frankly, the ST haters can stay home, as far as I'm concerned. There's something in SW for everyone and no one is trying to force anyone to like all of it if they don't want to. It's ridiculous the amount of time some folks invest in hating on the newer SW stuff since Disney acquired LF and it's pathetic. When the PT came out, I was nowhere near a SW fan and remember the disgruntled folks back in 1999. There was no social media then for them to get out their attitude, but it was a thing then, too.

What they've misjudged, if anything, is that SW fans are fickle and hard to please.

However, their SW stories are still making them money, so there is a large audience that's still more than interested.

100%

I am a Star Wars fan and though the ST may not be my favorites I have far from hated them and had no issue with the land being set during that period.

 

[Mome Rath]

Just to add to the Disney vs. Universal discussions as far as "what's going on with Disney Parks"... I don't want Disney to become Universal in any way shape or form. I understand the comparisons as far as detail, etc... but from my perspective, I don't like Universal, specifically the rides, and that includes the HP rides, except for the Hogwarts Express.

I like Disney for being Disney, not Universal. So, if they "fix" whatever is broken at Disney, I hope they do it like the Imagineers of old. Disney was, and still is in many ways, so different than anywhere else, that's what needs to be (re)focused on; the CM's and how they are trained and interact, the fireworks, the parades and shows, the cleanliness of parks and hotels, etc...

 

[Waiting2goback]

And that's mostly due to the HP author - who retained full creative rights and stayed on UO nonstop to make sure the new lands met her vision and high standards - they wanted to cheap out, cut corners, or take liberties with storylines and characters many times and she shot them down. That's why HP blows people away and Pandora and GE, while thematically and visually beautiful, are still lacking in many ways. WDW didn't have a gatekeeper like that to hold their corporate/non-creative execs' feet to the fire integrity and quality-wise.

James Cameron oversaw Pandora and that was before Disney bought Fox so they had no control over him. I have never seen Avatar. I have no interest in Avatar. As a Star Wars fan I would say Avatar is even more interesting to walk through the GE. I have walked through Avatar a few times and I am sure there are little shops here and there but I can’t remember them. GE just felt like a fancy looking outdoor mall as it is designed for shopping IMO. And let’s talk about the hotel too. I can’t see how that will possibly succeed at the rumored $1000/night charge for that hotel when nobody is coming to see that land itself. I am dying to see how that plays out.

To me it just seems Disney (Chapek) got a little too cocky thinking people can’t live without Disney and have made so huge strategic mistakes on pricing and GE.

As for the economy being a reason where people aren’t going. Where is the idea that the economy is struggling coming from. I see hiring signs everywhere and some fields are even offering sign in bonuses again, which hasn’t happened for 10 years. My wife is a nurse and she gets offers from recruiters all the time for jobs with $5000 sign on bonuses.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Just to add to the Disney vs. Universal discussions as far as "what's going on with Disney Parks"... I don't want Disney to become Universal in any way shape or form. I understand the comparisons as far as detail, etc... but from my perspective, I don't like Universal, specifically the rides, and that includes the HP rides, except for the Hogwarts Express.

I like Disney for being Disney, not Universal. So, if they "fix" whatever is broken at Disney, I hope they do it like the Imagineers of old. Disney was, and still is in many ways, so different than anywhere else, that's what needs to be (re)focused on; the CM's and how they are trained and interact, the fireworks, the parades and shows, the cleanliness of parks and hotels, etc...

I think that's all people have been comparing in terms of Universal and Disney is how they did Harry Potter because I think most of us agree Harry Potter was how Universal reinvented how the public saw them. I'm not sure people were saying they want Disney parks to be Universal parks or vice versa.

You don't have to like Universal as a whole nor do you have to like Disney as a whole. I do think there is merit towards how Universal did Harry Potter. And personally when I look at Star Wars I was also comparing how Disney did Pandora (which I thought overall was done better) and the end result, personally speaking, of Star Wars.

I think it Star Wars had come before Pandora where people didn't have that land to compare and I think if Disney maybe hadn't hyped it up as far as how epic they thought it would be and I think if they had both rides open from day 1 the impressions from some of us that were underwhelmed in one way or another maybe would have had a different impression. I also think if they hadn't made 3 things require reservations in SWGE it may have gone over better from the "what to do in the land" standpoint.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

And THAT might be the saddest and most telling post in this thread. I, like many here, grew up with Disney Imagineering leading the way in theme park attractions. They didn't go for fastest, highest, wildest but they focused instead on immersive and memorable, giving you a reason outside of adrenaline to want to revisit a ride or attraction.

I can understand a new, hungry group challenging them at their own game - creating the Wizarding World and "out-Disney-ing Disney" as many have put it.

But, truly, that's when DI needs to regroup and focus on the essentials, innovate and come back stronger and better. They have the talent. They certainly have the financial backing. Do they have the leadership and the will?

I mean, really we should be saying "Wizarding World is great, but imagine if Disney had the license! They could have done amazing work with Rowling!" and it's a shame that's not the reality (even if it's only perceived reality).

I so strongly agree with this.

I feel like a broken record but I think attractions like Haunted Mansion, POTC, BTMRR, and Splash are the gold standard for Disney attractions. Those exemplify what made Disney the innovators. They didn’t need popular IP or mind blowing ride systems to draw people in. They thrive purely on the creativity, storytelling, and attention to detail that put Disney at the top.

I want that back.

 

[tink2424]

I think we're starting to see the result of the Instagram generation on the economy.

Most people now seem to believe they must present this fake image of themselves being far more successful than they really are. They must over stretch themselves to have a better car, better phone, better house than they can really afford - all on monthly payments. Many people simply have nothing left at the end of each month to save for holidays like they did a few years ago.

On top of this disney is offering less value than ever for more money than ever. Most parades are gone. Evening shows just aren't like they used to be. Dining prices going up for lower quality and less choice.

Then there is universal who have seriously upped their game in the last 10 years.

I agree! And the value to stay onsite is dwindling. I remember when there were multiple extra magic hours both in the morning and in the evening. Now I see barely any and some paid timeslots. You can definitely get more for your money at Universal. Which is a shame as it shouldn't be that hard for Disney to get it right.

 

[MeridaAnn]

What about the pressed pennies? What did I miss?

A lot of the pressed penny machines have been replaced with machines that cost $1 per penny and only use bills or credit cards, no coins (they supply the penny - or, in some cases, just a penny-sized copper disk that was never money to begin with). Some of them also do the pressing part automatically, although some of the new ones still have a hand-crank.



As for Galaxy's Edge, I do think it's visually excellent. It does feel like you have entered another world, and the two times I have visited, I found it strange to remind myself that the Muppets and Toy Story and the rest of DHS were so nearby - it really did feel like I had been transported to somewhere completely different.

The interactive elements on the Datapad game were somewhat interesting - I played through several missions and scanned a lot of crates, where I "found" some fun virtual items that I recognized from the movies, which was fun. Unfortunately, the Datapad was also pretty un-intuitive, and I sometimes struggled with how to progress to the next step of the mission (hint: you have to click the ? button once you have reached the mission location in order to confirm that you're there). I spent about 20-30 minutes playing with the Datapad before I ran out of missions that I was interested in. I do wish the game had more real-world elements, like the Agent P missions in Epcot, instead of only giving in-game responses.

I did have some frustration with the pacing of the game in the line for the Millenium Falcon, as the line moved faster than the game in some points. I'm assuming the timing will line up better once FP is operational, but for the time being, it was frustrating for the game to continue referencing areas that I had already passed, sometimes without giving the option to skip ahead. (Interestingly, this sort of matched my feelings about The Last Jedi - I enjoyed all the individual parts, but thought the overall pacing was off and it was hard to tell what the ultimate goal for the plot was, so you had no idea how much time was left or what to look forward to. )

I actually really liked the shops. They had some really cool items for sale - I thought the toy shop was suuuuper cute, I was amused by the Batuu-themed water spray bottle fans, and the authentic-looking Jedi robes and tunics were really tempting to me as a cosplayer. The only problem for me was that the stalls were so small that I felt like I couldn't just stand and look around as long as I would have liked, because I felt like I was blocking other guests. And I was on my own - I'm not sure how you could even fit in there with multiple people and try to show each other different items, etc. Even Dok Ondar's was smaller than I expected, though maybe I had just overhyped it in my own mind - there were some really cool items on display there, but it was still basically set up for one loop around and then exiting, rather than spending any time exploring.

I did have good interactions with all the CMs in the land. On my first visit, I brought my shoulder banshee from Pandora and got a lot of great reactions. On my second, I was wearing a rebel alliance T-shirt and was "caught" by Kylo Ren and some stormtroopers while I was paying attention to the Datapad game, so I got some grief from Kylo to "be careful where you place your loyalties", etc., which was great. And I enjoyed seeing Vi Moradi running around pursued by the stormtroopers a couple times on both visits.

I think once they open RotR, if they just also add a stage show of some kind with a couple performances and the march of the stormtroopers or some other sort of mini-parade, and fix a couple little issues with the Datapad game, it could be a really excellent area to spend a good chunk of time. Opening without RotR was definitely a mistake, though, at least at WDW. They created a situation where a lot of people wanted to avoid this timeframe because they were worried about opening crowds and a lot of other people wanted to delay their trip until the second ride opened, so instead of drawing people rushing in, they created two huge reasons to avoid the land for a couple months, on top of all the construction and other issues in the other parks. Just not good timing, and it's showing.

 

[Q-man]

I got a co-worker buddy currently at MK and he just sent me a pic of the park with the castle and asked me if noticed anything different. I was looking at the castle and told him no and he said look again and count how many people are in the picture. Wow, I can't believe it, there were literally only a few people. He is a DVC member and has been over 10yr and he said he hasn't seen it this dead since he was going with his parents years ago, unbelievable how slow it is. He goes the same time every year and would always come back to work and complain how crowded it was and how he wished it use to be like it was years ago, well he got his wish this trip.

There is a MNSSHP tonight which causes low morning crowds at MK. I love going to RD on a MK party night. Many non party ticket holders avoid MK because of the reduced hours and party ticket holders are in no rush to get to the park.

 

[Disxuni]

As someone who is a fan of both Disney and Universal (hence the name), I have decided to retire my AP pass and go back to Universal for the time being this Fall and here are some reasons categorized.

Personal - Miss it. It's been awhile since I've been to Universal and originally, I was thinking about doing both APs, but...

Financial / Value - Disney announced it's price AP hike and Universal is more affordable. For about the same price I am paying for a Gold pass (prior to the price hike) I can get the highest tier pass at Universal for essentially the same price. While no, I do not get four theme parks, but two parks, however, any time I visit I get early entry and express pass after 4pm, free any kind of free parking (reg, preferred, valet), a free HHN ticket, and while Disney has it's perks and there are other Universal perks, I wanted to focus on the ones that typically would cost extra for other Universal guests and/or I do not get out of my already Disney pass. That being said, I was originally going to do a Gold pass and just a regular AP, but after the announcement, I decided to drop Disney and treat myself to the highest tier Universal pass instead. Also, Universal has been building more reasonably, but lovely hotels, as well as, their top tier three resorts have unlimited EP included with their stay for all guests, for all other hotels early entry. While Disney has legendary resorts it just seems to be getting higher and higher (on top of now paying for parking). Most of the time you can't even get a inexpensive tent camp site at the Fort anymore. Now I'm going to stop writing a novel about the pricing (because I can get into the Disney pricing for work shops / events too).

Entertainment / Crowd - Going back to the subject... Yes, Harry Potter. Huge Harry Potter fan, but I was going to Universal well before that and was a fan prior to that. However, I've noticed that since that point that Universal has definitely turned the tides in terms of being more innovative, creative, and creating unique attractions (but let's forget Fast and Furious). While they're using an IP they definitely delivered where Disney clearly did not. The full history on how Disney dropped the ball and how many times in terms of getting JK is astoundingly disappointing considering what they offered her. It's a long story. Not going to get into the GE / Pandora debate, because then this post would just be even longer than it already is. Anywho, putting that off to the side, I like Universal's attractions and like Disney, there is a nostalgia factor to them (for me at least) believe it, or not. The crowds are chill compared to Disney and guests will not take you out during a rope drop. The crowds are light in the morning, where it seems that no matter what there is a herd it seems in no time in the Disney parks. Also, their resorts are lovely, Hard Rock for example is just a brief walk to Universal, the hotels have free transportation to the park and can be boat, or bus.

In conclusion, most of it is about money, but even if I took that out of the equation, I'd choose Universal (for now). Disney was a good run, but a lot of times I feel like I am coming for the nostalgia and magic at Disney and I haven't done Universal in a couple of years. Crowds are getting heavy and I feel Disney is not delivering on their new concepts and while sometimes it's better to be slow than to win the race, it's an issue when Disney is not delivering innovative attractions. GE isn't technically finished (so I won't get into SR), but for Toy Story Land for example, they had a roller coaster and... bumper cars. All in all, it's time to see what Universal has done since I've been there and I'll go back to Disney one day, however as a AP? I don't know yet. Sorry this ended up longer than I intended..

 

[BabiesDaddy]

Here are my opinions....
1) They opened a park and it only has two new rides, one of which isn't open yet.
2) The Millennium Falcon ride. It's Star Tours, except, your in the Falcon. Same pig, different dress.
3) I think Disney fans prefer more real rides, not the animated rides. We have Universal for these.
4) The cost. Disney has been way overboard on prices, people are starting to get tired of it.
5) The new Star Wars movies aren't great for the older generation, that grew up watching the originals ( myself). The only one I like is Solo, and everyone else didn't like it.
6) Most younger people who like the new Star Wars, can't afford to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on a vacation to disney. They head to six flags for the day if they want a vacation.
7) Disney can learns a few things from Universal, Harry Potter land is leaps and bounds above just about anything Disney. I'm not a Harry Potter nut, but I've been twice, and its impressive even to a non-fan. The new Haggard's roller coaster seems very impressive.
8) I may be repeating myself, but really, what does the New star Wars land really offer. A few shops, and duplicate ride that wasn't very good to begin with. If they thought this was going to draw people, they've been use to disney fans eating up everything that is thrown at them. People are starting to realize, it isn't as great as it used to be.