What happened to the WDW I knew and loved?

[Ryandb2]

Having gone through an MBA program recently I can pretty accurately say that the vibe in most management programs is actually a lot more employee and less profit centric. Picture Apple as a good model or Google, not Honeywell. I also agree with the poster above, MBAs who graduated in the last 5-10 years are just moving out of middle management. The CEO sets the tone for the company and that is where any blame should reside.

Having said that, you can find hundreds of threads on any forum about how things use to be better, but most of that is nostalgia and longing for the past. People cant accept change. Some changes have been bad, but if you have gone to Disney for 30+ years you are more apt to notice those minor changes and not notice fastpass, photopass, etc...

Most guests are not affected by the choice of napkins but I agree some amount of theming and attention to detail has been lost. Would Walt have done it? Probably not but if Disney needs to choose between napkins and putting more capital into a major expansion, they know which one will pay off.

 

[WedgieSock]

I love change but not all change is good. Case in point. Disney got rid of an excellent Pleasure Island for what? More stores with chinese junk? Oh let's not forget the empty buildings. yeah that was an excellent change, who doesn't love that. They put in Trex which is really Rainforest cafe with dinasours. sorry not a giant leap for imagination there.

They got rid of live performers. I remember (yes it nostaligia) before every show you use to have live acts so while you were sitting there for an hour you had entertainment. 4 for a dollar before beauty and the beast, Rosie the cleaning lady before fantasmic (which most times you have to get there an hour ahead). Now you simply sit. bored. for an hour. unless some thing has changed since August '011

EE. only coaster in the world that never ever worked correctly. It's now become an internet joke about fixing the Yeti.

And I totally admit yes I'm nostalgic for great food. don't know how you can say people "hate" change just because they feel that their food should not taste like crap. I must be weird for expecting good food when I go out to a restaurant.

And last but not least. STITCH The universal sign for what not to do for a ride.
So maybe it's we see the good and the bad

I wasn't pin-pointing that one example but the fact is, one bad bread bun isn't worth focusing on. If food across the board was bad then yes, you have every right to complain. I'm lucky, I've never had a bad meal at Disney but then I choose not to eat hot dogs *insert vomit smiley here*

I don't just go to Disney so I am able to compare and to be honest, yes, there are small things that aren't perfect but they don't impact my vacation in any way, I just move on.

And whats up with Stitch?

 

[eliza61]

I wasn't pin-pointing that one example but the fact is, one bad bread bun isn't worth focusing on. If food across the board was bad then yes, you have every right to complain. I'm lucky, I've never had a bad meal at Disney but then I choose not to eat hot dogs *insert vomit smiley here*

I don't just go to Disney so I am able to compare and to be honest, yes, there are small things that aren't perfect but they don't impact my vacation in any way, I just move on.

And whats up with Stitch?

Cool.

I've actually started to travel more globally now which truthfully makes wdw little defects all the more glaring. Want to see real customer service and a true deluxe, stay at the Waldorf 5 miles down the road. Oy vey. I don't eat hot dogs either but I find the ts restaurants mediocre at best. so yes imo the food across the board especially in the theme parks are lets just say mediore quality at best. Can you honestly say tony's is good? So for me food is not a small thing. I have had better food at the signatures but they double the points on them.

I will say also that a lot may have to do with my different "stages" of visiting.

For example Fantasyland expansion has absolutely no interest for me and my family since I don't have little kids anymore. The quality of the resort is more important since we tend to spend tons of time there, some trips we will be there 7 days and only go to the parks 3 or 4 days. Nothing really "impacts" my vacation but things do have an effect. If I use the resort bathroom and it stinks for 3 days straight and guest are complaining,no it doesn't ruin my vacation but hey, it does leave a bad impression and if I were to write a review I would definitely mention it (and on the dis I would get flamed for it) when describing the resort.

When my kids where small and we went commando, clean bathrooms and good food probably were not high on my list. we would run from dusk to dawn.

LOL I wasn't trying to pinpoint just give an overall feel that not every change the mouseworld has implemented has been a hit.

Aaah the old stitch ride. yep, it's bad.

Happy trails.

 

[mcd2745]

In my opinion, it's those MBA programs, teaching rightsizing "headcount" over effectively managing "employees," and managing processes instead of leading people...

I agree 1000%

Your MBA graduates are not CEO and COO making big decisions...they are middle management and their decisions are being overseen by someone else.
And how does leadership versus business acumen lead one to keep napkins versus delete them? Leadership is moving people to action in a positive way and would be most evidence by service levels, quality product and internal employee engagement and retention...not Mickey shaped pasta staying or going. The business world is much more competitive, Wall Street is much more critical of stock value public companies are accountable for their net operating profit line...they have two levers to improve it which improves their stock value...price and operating costs. There isn't a big company out there right now that isn't trying to pull both levers to maintain their market share. If the way business are run is displeasing I wouldn't blame young MBAs, I'd blame the global economy and the trend for big businesses swallowing up family mom and pop style businesses

I agree about the pressures from Wall St. It's gotten ridiculous. Companies can not take measures that will improve their results long-termif it means some short-term pains. Two bad (or even just mediocre) quarters and the hedge fund and pension fund managers are calling for the CEO's head. Long-term, value-based investing has pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur. In today's climate, they are always forced to have too much of a short-term approach as they must be supremely focused on the next quartely earnings and not enough on the future. That's a problem in every business in every sector - Disney included. And many times this is what leads to a lot of the seemingly "silly" or "trivial" cutbacks. Some may be good business decisions - in Disney's case, I would consider generic napkins one. Some are bad decisions - generic merchandise across the board, or cutting performers such as the living statues in Epcot or the street performers in DHS I would categorize as poor decisions.


Management in just about all businesses these days have a terrible approach. They focus on all the wrong things. Many times, because those are the things that some management text book said they should be focusing on. They are obsessed with "metrics" (oh how I hate that word) and generally lack good old common sense.

 

[ttintagel]

I really can't get passed the whole 'nostaliga' thing. Mainly because those who complain about Disney taking things away either ignore or truly don't see all the new things that have been added. So it seems to me that the issue really is they don't like change.

Maybe they see the new things and just don't like them on their own merits?

It's like, I'd love it if a decorator came in and redecorated my house - IF he did it in a style that I like. If he did it in a style I didn't like, I wouldn't dislike it just because it's different. Different people like different things.

 

[Planogirl]

Maybe they see the new things and just don't like them on their own merits?

It's like, I'd love it if a decorator came in and redecorated my house - IF he did it in a style that I like. If he did it in a style I didn't like, I wouldn't dislike it just because it's different. Different people like different things.

Great post!

I see this so often on the boards. I don't mind what's going so you shouldn't either. I like that so you should too.

Like you said everyone has different tastes and expectations and it isn't all about nostalgia. When Disney builds something good I'm one of the first to sing its praises. If it's a bad replacement for something good I mention that too. Or if there is no replacement then that's just a shame.

 

[Galen_50]

I think one thing that we are forgetting when it comes to something like the napkins, mugs and other items specialized to the resturants is margin. We are looking at the company as a whole on there profit and profit margin. But the company is actually breaking it down into divisions when they look at the margins. When you are taking something such as napkins, they are looking at only what the restaurants profit margin is, so what we pay to get in and what we fork over for merchandise has no effect on this margin. And unfortantly right now, food cost are going up and up. The cost to produce the food, the cost to transport the food, etc, etc, all that then raises the cost of what Disney pays. The more they pay, the lower the profit margin for the restaurant division. So the division makes cuts where they can that have the lowest impact, then they raise the prices. The dinning plan also doesn't help with their margins.

Also I would not be surprised that within the division, they look at the profit margin for each restaurant seperately. With that, specialized napkins would hit all on the one restaurant instead of spread out over several. And these cost include the purchase of the napkins, the printing (if any), the transporting of them, the storage of them. As another poster said before, there are alot of costs you and I do not see or even think of.

And with Wall Street and the shareholders, Disney needs to look good there, if not, then their credit rating goes down. If it goes down, it is harder for them to get money for capital expenditures.

And as for Everst and being the only broken coaster in history, have you ever ridden Diaster Transport at Cedar Point? They spent millions to enclose and retheme a roller coaster and by the end of the first season half of the theming was broken or removed. It was torn down this year, but by the end none of the theming was left and it was just a dark roller coaster.

 

[Magpie]

Great post!

I see this so often on the boards. I don't mind what's going so you shouldn't either. I like that so you should too.

Like you said everyone has different tastes and expectations and it isn't all about nostalgia. When Disney builds something good I'm one of the first to sing its praises. If it's a bad replacement for something good I mention that too. Or if there is no replacement then that's just a shame.

The flip side, of course, is, "I'm upset about what's going, so you should be, too! I've got no interest in the new stuff, so you shouldn't be impressed by it, either!"

Anyway, I fully acknowledge that everyone has different tastes, and also that our tastes evolve over time. What appeals to young parents may not appeal to retirees.

What gets me are the folks who see something they don't like and jump to the conclusion that the entire park is going to heck in a handbasket. And some of these folks then go on to point to a general decline in everything from customer service to the fraying moral fabric of the entire society, and it's nothing but doom and gloom as far as the eye can see.

I think if Disney is making a person sad, maybe it's time that person found a different place to vacation. Somewhere that still has that "new vacation smell", where they can be happily ignorant of whether it was better last year, or ten years ago, and simply enjoy the present.

 

[WedgieSock]

The flip side, of course, is, "I'm upset about what's going, so you should be, too! I've got no interest in the new stuff, so you shouldn't be impressed by it, either!"

Anyway, I fully acknowledge that everyone has different tastes, and also that our tastes evolve over time. What appeals to young parents may not appeal to retirees.

What gets me are the folks who see something they don't like and jump to the conclusion that the entire park is going to heck in a handbasket. And some of these folks then go on to point to a general decline in everything from customer service to the fraying moral fabric of the entire society, and it's nothing but doom and gloom as far as the eye can see.

I think if Disney is making a person sad, maybe it's time that person found a different place to vacation. Somewhere that still has that "new vacation smell", where they can be happily ignorant of whether it was better last year, or ten years ago, and simply enjoy the present.

Exactly, great post.

I'm not talking about peoples different tastes either, I'm talking about those who think Disney is going to pot just because various things from their previous vacations aren't there anymore.

 

[sbell111]

We have gone to WDW (and the DLs) many times. This is what I have learned:

If you go to WDW with the intention to have fun, you will. If you go to WDW and try to look for reasons to be dissatisfied, you will be.

The thing that I love most about WDW has not changed. If I relax, I will find super cool fun things that I never noticed before. That hasn't changed.

The fact that they've changed a yumblat bun to accomodate a new menu item or that their napkins say 'Disney Parks' is not earth shaddering. Nor is the fact that I don't absolutely LURVE every ride/attraction that they create. (I'm looking at you Stitch!)

 

[bumbershoot]

In the old days, you had to go to a restaurant or attraction or hotel to buy their specific pin. It was fun, it was a hunt and a memory of getting it. Special as the OP said.

Some say special and fun, I say Hades on earth. But then, I really don't have the shopping gene, and special things to me aren't something that was mass-produced (no matter how well they hide it).

The Baby Boom generation spans from 1946 and 1964. I can assure you my husband is still working, and will be for a few years yet!

Me, a seventies baby, am definitely a Gen Xer.

Ayep. Right now you have 40-something BBs and 40-something X'ers (I'm an X'er) which can feel confusing to those who aren't either, but still, it's definitely not those who are 70! (70 is too old, obviously, until we get a few more years into the world)

 

[bumbershoot]

I am going to disagree with you with universal food. Hands down their CS are the nastiest food I ever tasted in theme parks. We were there in January and there was 5 of us. Not even one of us finish our food because it was that bad and DH is use to eating MRE's and he didn't even finish his food. My salad was not fresh it was just plain nasty I had two bites and I just couldn't eat anymore.

What did the TMs do when you complained about it?

When I asked a TM what had happened to the soup at 3Broomsticks, she was shocked that it tasted so bad and actually went back to check on it, and agreed that it even SMELLED wrong. She got me a whole new set of food, and was happy to do it.

I love love LOVE the veggie burgers from Richters and we just kept on going back each day, LOL. DS loved his cheese pizza from the place near Woody Woodpecker's Nuthouse Coaster and kept going back for more.

I think that's all the counter service we've had in our 3 trips, though. Maybe there are other places that were bad. (and while I don't recall any bad food that I personally have had at WDW in our 2 trips, my aunt and cousin are magnets for nasty food at WDW and nasty customer service from the CMs when they complain, righteously, about it!)

But if they were THAT bad, I'd talk to the TMs about it!

This is really offensive! I am not sure what generation you are from but age has very little to do with talent and competency.

I don't think they are blaming the actual people, but *what the people were taught*.

Interesting thread. All I know is that I hate amusement parks and I love Disney. I went to US last time and not one person along the way said hello to me, at Disney they wave and smile all the time. We were able to try wines from Africa and watch animals and our bus driver started singing on our way back from DTD. I'll take all this over "themed" napkins any day.

That's so weird! We've had FAR better interactions with the TMs at Universal vs the CMs at WDW.

 

[Magpie]

That's so weird! We've had FAR better interactions with the TMs at Universal vs the CMs at WDW.

I'm sure it's quite random, whether you have good experiences with CMs/TMs, or bad. The same people work at both parks (many literally have two jobs - one for each company!), and the customer service training is basically identical.

 

[Melodious]

The flip side, of course, is, "I'm upset about what's going, so you should be, too! I've got no interest in the new stuff, so you shouldn't be impressed by it, either!"

Anyway, I fully acknowledge that everyone has different tastes, and also that our tastes evolve over time. What appeals to young parents may not appeal to retirees.

What gets me are the folks who see something they don't like and jump to the conclusion that the entire park is going to heck in a handbasket. And some of these folks then go on to point to a general decline in everything from customer service to the fraying moral fabric of the entire society, and it's nothing but doom and gloom as far as the eye can see.

I think if Disney is making a person sad, maybe it's time that person found a different place to vacation. Somewhere that still has that "new vacation smell", where they can be happily ignorant of whether it was better last year, or ten years ago, and simply enjoy the present.

THe thing about opinions is that everybody's got one I personally quite enjoy the food at Disney World. However, I recognize that the CS pizza isn't perfect. My mom LOVES it When I told her that Pinocchio House changed their pizza, she was first upset and then decided we'd have to eat at Pizzafari in hopes they don't change it soon.

What I'm saying is that Disney can't make 100% of people happy 100% of the time. For every person complaining about the pizza there's another who loves it. For every person who complains about the hotdogs, there's another person like me who enjoys them. For every person who thinks every store has the same merchandise, there's someone like me who spent two days searching through two parks to discover the mickey ear headband that I had to have on my last trip was only sold in ONE store in Frontierland.

The only real fact here is that when I hand over my money for that cheeseburger, TS meal, or tshirt that I'm happy to do it

 

[larryz]

Your MBA graduates are not CEO and COO making big decisions...they are middle management and their decisions are being overseen by someone else.

Perhaps, but I rather doubt it's the CEO/CFO deciding to save a few pennies per hundred by eliminating custom logos on the napkins at the parks and resorts. I expect it was on someone's annual appraisal -- the middle managers at the Parks and Resorts division level -- "Look, boss, I saved a coupla thousand last year by switching to logo-less napkins!"

And how does leadership versus business acumen lead one to keep napkins versus delete them? Leadership is moving people to action in a positive way and would be most evidence by service levels, quality product and internal employee engagement and retention...not Mickey shaped pasta staying or going. The business world is much more competitive, Wall Street is much more critical of stock value public companies are accountable for their net operating profit line...they have two levers to improve it which improves their stock value...price and operating costs.

Two sides of the same coin.
I see it as old school vs new school -- the old schoolers still believed in the enhanced guest experience (when being a CM was more than just being "headcount") while the new schoolers are more about the stock analyst assessment -- it's just a theme park -- and are willing to settle on an "OK" guest experience while dredging up those few extra cents.

There isn't a big company out there right now that isn't trying to pull both levers to maintain their market share. If the way business are run is displeasing I wouldn't blame young MBAs, I'd blame the global economy and the trend for big businesses swallowing up family mom and pop style businesses

I'd agree more about market share if Disney wasn't raising prices every year while cutting out some of the distinctive touches that differentiated them from their (admittedly sparse) competition. After all, and many here agree, it's still Disney, right? What difference does a logo on a napkin make?

Obviously, they're having no problem holding market share despite the "little thing" reductions, so the shareholder side of me is happy. But the Disney lover in me is sad, for I can remember the glory days of the 70's and 80's.

Someone owes me two cents...

 

[Waltgirl]

Having said that, you can find hundreds of threads on any forum about how things use to be better, but most of that is nostalgia and longing for the past. People cant accept change. Some changes have been bad, but if you have gone to Disney for 30+ years you are more apt to notice those minor changes and not notice fastpass, photopass, etc...

Most guests are not affected by the choice of napkins but I agree some amount of theming and attention to detail has been lost. Would Walt have done it? Probably not but if Disney needs to choose between napkins and putting more capital into a major expansion, they know which one will pay off.

There is a difference between accepting change and accepting change for the worse. Just because people are complaining about something, doesn't mean they can't accept change. You admit that yourself above, some changes have been bad and some amount of theming and detail have been lost. It would be nicer if people just ignore a complaint post over attempting to delegitimize it, or dismiss it as nostalgia. It is disrespectful and it demeans the opinion of the complainer.

Ahh forget it. No one gives a rat's patootie about civility.

 

[Magpie]

Two sides of the same coin.
I see it as old school vs new school -- the old schoolers still believed in the enhanced guest experience (when being a CM was more than just being "headcount") while the new schoolers are more about the stock analyst assessment -- it's just a theme park -- and are willing to settle on an "OK" guest experience while dredging up those few extra cents.

And in 30 years time, assuming we haven't moved on from the Internet as a means of communication, I suspect people will be posting about the good ol' days of the early twenty-teens, when the guest experience actually meant something and it wasn't all about the almighty dollar. Or perhaps by then the almighty gold-pressed latinum.

There is a difference between accepting change and accepting change for the worse. Just because people are complaining about something, doesn't mean they can't accept change. You admit that yourself above, some changes have been bad and some amount of theming and detail have been lost. It would be nicer if people just ignore a complaint post over attempting to delegitimize it, or dismiss it as nostalgia. It is disrespectful and it demeans the opinion of the complainer.

Ahh forget it. No one gives a rat's patootie about civility.

Actually people have been quite civilized. It's not rude to have a different opinion, or even to argue that someone is wrong. Internet bulletin boards are not the place for, "If you can't say something nice, then don't say nothin' at all."

Otherwise we'd all just be talking to ourselves with an occasional, "You're so right!" tossed in.

 

[minnie mum]

There is a difference between accepting change and accepting change for the worse. Just because people are complaining about something, doesn't mean they can't accept change. You admit that yourself above, some changes have been bad and some amount of theming and detail have been lost. It would be nicer if people just ignore a complaint post over attempting to delegitimize it, or dismiss it as nostalgia. It is disrespectful and it demeans the opinion of the complainer.

Ahh forget it. No one gives a rat's patootie about civility.

What would be the point of having a DISCUSSION BOARD, then, if one isn't allowed to have a discussion? An opinion can be discussed- as in airing opposing views on a given subject- and still be completely civil.

What is disrespectful, uncivil, and demeaning, is to have all opposing views summarily dismissed in this matter. Really.

 

[Ryandb2]

There is a difference between accepting change and accepting change for the worse. Just because people are complaining about something, doesn't mean they can't accept change. You admit that yourself above, some changes have been bad and some amount of theming and detail have been lost. It would be nicer if people just ignore a complaint post over attempting to delegitimize it, or dismiss it as nostalgia. It is disrespectful and it demeans the opinion of the complainer.

Ahh forget it. No one gives a rat's patootie about civility.

I'm pretty sure it is legitimate to surmise that complaints about choice of napkins could be attributed to nostalgia. It is such a common element of the human condition it is a joke in and of itself. Many small changes can amount to a large change, but taken by itself the original topic does seem to come across as someone wistfully reminiscing. I'm not saying he can't discuss it, or that it is wrong, just that it was stated as a series of small minor rants that most people who visit Walt Disney World wouldn't notice. If they did they are just as likely to consider them good changes (i.e. not having to hunt through hundreds of gift shops for that one gift).

I guess my point was that for those of us who visit Disney often these changes add up, but for the general guest a new ride means a lot more to their experience than a new napkin design. I'm not talking in absolutes here, but general. There are always going to be people who are fascinated with the little details, and I don't think those touches should be lost but there were decisions made throughout Disney's history, even when Walt was running the parks, that put return on investment over experience. It is a fine line, and if you don't think Disney is on the right side of it then it is open season on a forum to discuss it.

... eh I had more to say but I'm tired. So

TLDR - I'm sorry if I offended, as I didn't mean to, but please don't ignore the effect of nostalgia on how you view the events of today

Also not all people with MBAs are bad, although I doubt I made that point, and perhaps made things even worse. I tend to do that when I talk.

 

[xipotec]

I agree 1000%

I agree about the pressures from Wall St. It's gotten ridiculous. Companies can not take measures that will improve their results long-termif it means some short-term pains. Two bad (or even just mediocre) quarters and the hedge fund and pension fund managers are calling for the CEO's head. Long-term, value-based investing has pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur. In today's climate, they are always forced to have too much of a short-term approach as they must be supremely focused on the next quartely earnings and not enough on the future. That's a problem in every business in every sector - Disney included. And many times this is what leads to a lot of the seemingly "silly" or "trivial" cutbacks. Some may be good business decisions - in Disney's case, I would consider generic napkins one. Some are bad decisions - generic merchandise across the board, or cutting performers such as the living statues in Epcot or the street performers in DHS I would categorize as poor decisions.

Management in just about all businesses these days have a terrible approach. They focus on all the wrong things. Many times, because those are the things that some management text book said they should be focusing on. They are obsessed with "metrics" (oh how I hate that word) and generally lack good old common sense.

This is the truth in so many ways. Thank you for writing exactly whats in my mind.