What happened to Pirates?

[Angel Ariel]

The only reason I would say FP+ is the culprit is because of the fact that one side of the Pirates line is now dedicated to FP+. That will make the SB line appear to be longer, even if it isn't, because 1/2 of the queue that was used before is now for FP+.

 

[kmc]

Actually, I'm still blaming the decline in food quality on Free Dining.

That's an entirely other topic that has been making me like I said I haven't been in several years and have always loved the quality of food at disney inside the parks especially compared to universal( food at universals hotels is but inside the parts and all I have been reading is how the food/service has gone downhill at disney.

I appreciate reading about everyone's experiences as it helps me make more informed decisions but man these boards use to get me excited about my up coming trips and now they are thoroughly bumming me out.

 

[davedmaine]

Actually, I'm still blaming the decline in food quality on Free Dining.

Yep

 

[magicbob]

You lost me. You think that Disney wants fewer people walking around (where they spend money), and more people standing in lines (where they can't spend money, even if they wish to do so)?

Disney doesn't want anyone in line - ever. If they could, they would shut down every ride and make every park like DTD. Once they get their money at the gates, Disney starts losing money as guests ride the rides.

ETA - It is my belief that Disney wants to more evenly distribute guests throughout the parks to encourage more spending and allow Disney management to more easily plan and manage park resources.

I agree. But I think they've sorely underestimated how big a role the rides play in the WDW experience. No matter how hard they try, people are not going to WDW and spending that much to get in just to visit gift shops.

 

[vette79]

Same amount of people in every line every day. Hmmmmm sounds like Socialism....

 

[haPevraftr]

I thought by this point, someone might have mentioned this....
The other factor contributing to POTC lines is the fact that the ride is shut down so often lately. On multiple trips this past year and at multiple times on each of those trips, we watched them evacuate the ride and everyone waiting. The longer the ride is down, the longer the lines are when it is finally up and running. We would see the lines at 20 minutes simply b/c people saw it was running and hoped to get to ride it while it was running.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I agree. But I think they've sorely underestimated how big a role the rides play in the WDW experience. No matter how hard they try, people are not going to WDW and spending that much to get in just to visit gift shops.

i agree with this. Our souvenir budget is what it is...spending less time on rides isn't going to change it. If anything, less ride time will likely mean I leave the park sooner, which is more likely to lead to less spending rather than more.

Plus, a lot of the quality of what's available in the gift shops has seriously deteriorated. Maybe if they offered more unique and quality items, we'd up our souvenir budget accordingly, but the rides have little effect on what we'll spend.

 

[bcrook]

You lost me. You think that Disney wants fewer people walking around (where they spend money), and more people standing in lines (where they can't spend money, even if they wish to do so)?

Disney doesn't want anyone in line - ever. If they could, they would shut down every ride and make every park like DTD. Once they get their money at the gates, Disney starts losing money as guests ride the rides.

But! it is a mathematical possibility.

And those three rides are FP lines. So let's say that 25% of the guests skipped the rides in the past. But now that population is popping in for three quick FP rides throughout the day - because they don't want to waste their fp+.

Those three quick rides will add volume and slow down the standby.

I saw it happen with my travel group in October. The people in my group, who never rode rides, would not waste a scheduled fastpass time.

And for the most part everyone was thrilled they took the time to ride. The wait wasn't long and they chose mild rides.

We used ours for star tours, maelstrom, little mermaid, dinosaur, tough to be a bug, etc. we made all of our appointments. These are not rides that typically need the FP, and we probably would have skipped, but we jumped in. It didn't keep us out of the restaurants or bars or stores or FW kiosks, because we only rode three rides.

Combine that with all the stories of people who finally get to ride the headliners because of FP+. All those people who simply skipped TSMM, soarin, Safari, space mountain, RnRC, and splash are now grabbing ride capacity slots that was out of reach before.

So overall, I think ride demand is skyrocketing now, and lines will increase across the boards.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

But! it is a mathematical possibility.

And those three rides are FP lines. So let's say that 25% of the guests skipped the rides in the past. But now that population is popping in for three quick FP rides throughout the day - because they don't want to waste their fp+.

Those three quick rides will add volume and slow down the standby.

I saw it happen with my travel group in October. The people in my group, who never rode rides, would not waste a scheduled fastpass time.

And for the most part everyone was thrilled they took the time to ride. The wait wasn't long and they chose mild rides.

We used ours for star tours, maelstrom, little mermaid, dinosaur, tough to be a bug, etc. we made all of our appointments. These are not rides that typically need the FP, and we probably would have skipped, but we jumped in. It didn't keep us out of the restaurants or bars or stores or FW kiosks, because we only rode three rides.

Combine that with all the stories of people who finally get to ride the headliners because of FP+. All those people who simply skipped TSMM, soarin, Safari, space mountain, RnRC, and splash are now grabbing ride capacity slots that was out of reach before.

So overall, I think ride demand is skyrocketing now, and lines will increase across the boards.

Possible, but I tend to follow Occam's Razor type thinking about these things. People are a lot more like cows than you think.

 

[Jennasis]

Possible, but I tend to follow Occam's Razor type thinking about these things. People are a lot more like cows than you think.

Hey! You callin' me fat?

 

[bcrook]

Possible, but I tend to follow Occam's Razor type thinking about these things. People are a lot more like cows than you think.

A lot of posters think that human behavior won't change, and people won't log in to book the rides in advance, 50% of guests will continue to skip FP or rides in general! and everything will shake out like before. FP+ will be very similar to fastpass because attendance won't increase because of this, and the capacity is the same. If this happened, I would agree, everything will be about the same (and the tiers would be relaxed and the ride number would increase. Hopping could be allowed).

But that would be a huge failure for Disney, because they are betting 1.5 billion on beating Occams razor. They fully plan on changing guest behavior. They want the rides booked up in advance, they want a higher percentage of guests excited about their three FP per day. And if they are successful, line length will increase. Which is why they are building interactive queues and even touting them as attractions.

This is Disney's stated plan. I have confidence that Disney will be successful in their plan. And that makes me sad.

 

[JimmyV]

There are a lot of variables, but it would be naive, (or just plain stubborn) to assert that FP+ isn't one of them. Or a major one. Another would be time of day. Beyond all the complaints about FP+, one has to look at how touring will change. Before FP+, when the rope dropped at the MK, people sprinted to one of the following:

• Space Mountain
• Splash Mountain
• BTMRR
• Belle
• Dumbo
• Certain Meet-n-Greets

Yes, there were other choices as well, but the above list probably accounted for 80% of all guests. You could pretty much follow the wave of people as they went to SM, then to Buzz, then over to Splash and BTMRR, and by the time people had three or four rides unde their belts, the crowd had dispersed all over the place. Very few people began their day by sprinting to PoTC, then to the Haunted Mansion, then to the Jungle Cruise. With FP+, the attractions that used to be "sprint-to" attractions will be pre-reserved by the cognescenti, and they will head to those areas later in the day. So where do they begin their day? It's still up in the air. But one thing is certain. People will be altering their 9:00-10:30 strategies. Not everyone. There will still be people sprinting to SM to get in an early ride even though they have a FP+ for it later in the day. But many others will skip the sprint and head to attractions that, previously, were never first on their list. Obvious candidates for early attractions now are "next tier" rides like PoTC and HM. So expect to see longer lines there earlier in the day.

A year ago, the typical wait time at PoTC at 10:00 a.m. was probably 10 minutes. I can see this growing to 20-30 minutes under FP+. The net effect of all of this (if my hunch is correct), is that the people who used to sprint to top tier attractions and now head to next tier attractions because they have FP+ for the biggies will cause the lines at the top tier attractions to decline slightly while the lines for the next tier attractions will grow. So instead of having an immediate 40 minute wait at Space Mountain and virtually no line at PoTC, you might have a 30 minute wait at SM and a 10-15 minute wait at PoTC. This "crowd spread" is exactly what FP+ is intended to do. So please don't say that FP+ has nothing to do with this. This is its expected result.

 

[larryz]

Possible, but I tend to follow Occam's Razor type thinking about these things. People are a lot more like cows than you think.

I think Walt had it right when they did that movie with the lemmings...

 

[kittyab]

Oh boy! I can see it now, everything is going to be blamed on fp+ no matter the issue for the next year or so. I haven't been to disney for 6 years but can assure you I have seen long lines for pirates, haunted mansion, and small world at various times. it really depends on how you hit it. Each and every time I would comment wow this is usually a walk on, but like I said our last trip was October and we encountered this. Then later in the day they were walk ons, sometimes its just bad timing.

I hear you! We were there in Nov before FP+ took affect as we were testers. The lines were bad for this ride. We got to ride it twice once with a fast pass, the other at the xmas party since there were fewer people.

 

[Colleen27]

Yes, the spill out during moderate times is a result of FP+. One queue is now dedicated to FP+. However, the line will not take as long as you might think because the FP+ queue is empty almost up to the loading gates, and the CMs let stand by riders go into the FP+ queue upstream.

Are they doing this consistently now? When the FP+ line first opened we saw it going both ways - sometimes standby guests were being moved over to fill the excess capacity when there weren't many FP returns and sometimes the FP boats were running half-empty while the SB line crawled along filling only half the ride capacity.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

How is this related to fp+? I have seen the pirates ride with lines filling up the entire lobby and down toward jungle cruise. That was lllloooonnnngggg before fp+ was a gleam in the eye of the imagineer who thought it up.

Fp+ is not to be blamed for every little thing.

 

[skilesare]

Now...on our last visit, the line was out in the entrance lobby, and they had set up ropes anticipating a long line snaking back and forth outside.

When was your last trip? Time of year could have as much to do with it as anything else.

 

[skilesare]

So overall, I think ride demand is skyrocketing now, and lines will increase across the boards.

Ride demand is irrelevant. All rides are constrained by capacity. It's mathematically possible for every ride in the park to have a 180 minute posted weight but 99% of the people wait for less than five minutes.

 

[NHTikiBeckie]

We walked on it with no wait this past Wednesday and Friday.

 

[OKW Lover]

We walked on it with no wait this past Wednesday and Friday.

I'm sure somebody will attribute that to FP+.