What do you think about the new school BMI questions?

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

I don't think you need to "gather data" about obesity. Next time you're in Disney, take a look around.

People are frickin' HUGE.

But I don't think it's my job or the government's job to fix them.

 

[Colleen27]

It would bother me if they started doing that here, simply because of the failure of BMI as an accurate measure of what is a healthy weight. I was an athlete as a child/teen. I played many sports, but competitive swimming was my passion and I was working out 6 days a week and competiting on a state level. I spent most of my teen years in better shape than many people will ever be, but I AGONIZED over my weight because by the standards that don't take into account the relative densities of muscle vs fat, I was about 10lbs overweight. I really don't see the value in putting more girls in that position by putting such importance on such a flawed measure.

The other problem I have with kids' BMI measurements is how they are interpreted. Rather than having objective standards of what is underweight/normal/overweight, it is percentile-based. So for a kid like my DS11, if he were an adult man with his build he'd be at a healthy weight, but because he's big in relation to other kids his age he's considered overweight. That just doesn't make sense to me at ALL.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I don't think you need to "gather data" about obesity. Next time you're in Disney, take a look around.

People are frickin' HUGE.

But I don't think it's my job or the government's job to fix them.

Thank you! How many threads have we had on here about overweight adults in ECVs? People complain that they are just fat so they should stop eating then people say they all have medical issues etc. (I am not commenting just stating the basics of those threads) You can gather all the stats you want but the majority of those adults are not going to care. Sorry but there is rarely a person who is 500lbs that knows, cares, or isn't in denial. Those people will have children and unfortunately those children will learn the same things. Maybe if everyone was offered healthcare? Maybe if healthcare actually covered preventive medicine like certified nutritionists and family health club memberships? Maybe if they offered an incentive to stay healthy? Maybe if the food manufacturers didn't put tons of chemicals in everything from juice to meat? This problem will not be even close to being solved by calculating a 7 year old's BMI. That in itself is a joke.

 

[crisi]

I don't think you need to "gather data" about obesity. Next time you're in Disney, take a look around.

People are frickin' HUGE.

But I don't think it's my job or the government's job to fix them.

The perhaps gets into the dreaded political debate, but I sort of think since its my tax dollars paying for medicare/medicaid and my insurance premiums going up to cover the related illnesses - it is society's job. If I got to live in a bubble with "go ahead and kill yourself, what do I care" I would perhaps not care. But I don't have that luxury of separating myself for society as a whole.

 

[Colleen27]

As for the schools and excersize, they need to stop playing dodge ball and start teaching kids REAL excersizes and making it fun early enough in life so that as they grow up it WILL become a good, daily habit and one they enjoy and keep. Give them 30 minutes to speed walk, or jog, or do light aerobics. Light weights for the boys would be a wonderful idea and there are a lot of girls who would enjoy it too.

That would be a great start, wouldn't it? Gym class is just an exercise in humiliation for the non-athletic in so many schools and I think that actually DISCOURAGES a lifelong interest in physical activity in some kids. Rather than focusing on competitive team sports, PE should be a time to teach aerobic exercise, light/safe weightlifting (for older kids), and the kinds of activities that contribute to adult fitness. Most people won't ever play baseball or basketball or dodgeball again after graduation. Why not change PE to focus on activities like walking, running, biking, aerobics, swimming, and other individual pursuits that can continue as healthful habits in adulthood?

 

[geishagirl81]

This just in. My son had his 2 year check-up yesterday. He is 37 inches and 37 pounds. Above 97% percentiles in heighth, weight, and BMI. My doctor told me to not blink an eye at his BMI. The little guy has very little body weight. He is just a big boy and has a lot of muscle. He is not fat at all. So it goes to show how bad BMI is at calculating real fat issues.

If schools are going to monitor weight issues in their students, then their percentage of body weight should be taken. The only accurate measurement to determine a risk.


But my mind goes to this- Somewhere in the future, as a teacher, would it be my duty to report overweight kids to social services like child abuse cases? Is this going to be deciphered as neglect by the parents now? Just something to think about...

 

[Miss LD]

But do you know how many people don't take their children to the dentist even though they are made aware of a problem?? The damage to permanent teeth can happen and the pain some kids feel from cavities that are ignored is unreal. I was at a dental specialist's office last year for a root canal and these parents decided they did not want to put out the money to have 3 root canals done on their child. He was about 10 and when he left the staff was just shocked. The child had been complaining of the pain and here the parents decided it was not worth it to them to have the root canals. At that age you can't really pull permanent teeth.

In our district, dental screenings will be required for newly enrolled students next school year. My kids see the dentist every 6 months as well as the older ones seeing the orthodontist and the youngest will see the orthodontist this year just to check and see how her teeth are.

I am totally aware of these statistics. And I don't disagree with you at all. In fact I agree. If my son had come into school needing root canals and having hurting teeth, etc then by all means that should have been dealt with.
Sending a threatening letter to me because the back of my child's tooth had a stain was silly.

And, that is what i'm getting at. What limits are in place for these programs and what will they do with the information? If they are using the info for statistical analysis to get better programs in schools or healthy foods that's one thing.

Before I'd ever let my child have a BMI test I would want to know what numbers they worked with and what happens if my child "failed" the test.

 

[SharkyGoddess]

But my mind goes to this- Somewhere in the future, as a teacher, would it be my duty to report overweight kids to social services like child abuse cases? Is this going to be deciphered as neglect by the parents now? Just something to think about...

What about those kids who's parents smoke? You know. The ones who come in smelling strongly like an ashtray. Who are always sick. Who have weekly ear infections, upper respiratory infections and suffer from asthma. What about these kids? They contribute to the rising costs to tax payers (medicaid/medicare) and our increases in private insurances rates as well. Do we report their parents for child abuse and call them inadequate?

Not disputing your thought, just adding a "what if" to it.

 

[SharkyGoddess]

That would be a great start, wouldn't it? Gym class is just an exercise in humiliation for the non-athletic in so many schools and I think that actually DISCOURAGES a lifelong interest in physical activity in some kids. Rather than focusing on competitive team sports, PE should be a time to teach aerobic exercise, light/safe weightlifting (for older kids), and the kinds of activities that contribute to adult fitness. Most people won't ever play baseball or basketball or dodgeball again after graduation. Why not change PE to focus on activities like walking, running, biking, aerobics, swimming, and other individual pursuits that can continue as healthful habits in adulthood?

I can remember my oldest getting beside himself excited when in elementary school they began playing golf. They have a huge 'yard' and the PE teacher asked for help marking a course and creating holes and such and the kids had a ball. They got some really great excersize out of it too walking for the 30 minutes. He would also teach tennis, volley ball, and do his best to take the kids swimming. Middle school I was sooooo hopeful with all of the real excersize equipement they have they would actually, ohhh I don't know, EXCERSIZE???? No. Both of my kids have said they never used it, only the sports teams did.
High school so far my oldest seems tro be getting some real excersize again. Plus he walks all over the neighborhood to friends houses. He loves to walk, and always has since I got them all in the habits of going for walks with me. Something I REALLY need to get back in the habit again myself

 

[ilandrazdsw]

That would be a great start, wouldn't it? Gym class is just an exercise in humiliation for the non-athletic in so many schools and I think that actually DISCOURAGES a lifelong interest in physical activity in some kids. Rather than focusing on competitive team sports, PE should be a time to teach aerobic exercise, light/safe weightlifting (for older kids), and the kinds of activities that contribute to adult fitness. Most people won't ever play baseball or basketball or dodgeball again after graduation. Why not change PE to focus on activities like walking, running, biking, aerobics, swimming, and other individual pursuits that can continue as healthful habits in adulthood?

I agree and diss agree with you comment.
Agree--PE can often be the humiliating aspec of school. Throughout elementary/middle school our PE teacher did nothing! She would sit in her A/C office and tell us to go out and run...if it was raining we rand laps aroung the basketball court and joined the boys class for a game of PE. Dodgeball turned into the boys pegging the girls and hogging the balls. When I ran I couldn't breathe, no asthma or anything, just didn't know how and she never took the time to run with and teach us. It wasn't until HS (where we only had to take 3 semeseters of PE) that I learned getting exercise could be fun. And the idea of individual activities is great because then it is teaching the children to compete against themselves rather than comparing themselves to others.
Disagree--learning and playing sports like basketball, volleyball, etc does belong in PE classes. It teaches the kids that they can get exercise in fun ways without have to have to go out and run 3 miles. Yes, adults have to actively go in search of teams, but there are often church or rec leagues that meet a few times a week to practice and play...one when season ends another begins.

Whomever had the idea of schools offering fitness programs ! Dh and I used to go to the gym until it just got too expensive...and we miss it (not that we *need* a gym to exercise). Fortunately when we move we will be joining the local Y which will benefit not only us, but the children with activity programs and the pool .

 

[Mouse House Mama]

The perhaps gets into the dreaded political debate, but I sort of think since its my tax dollars paying for medicare/medicaid and my insurance premiums going up to cover the related illnesses - it is society's job. If I got to live in a bubble with "go ahead and kill yourself, what do I care" I would perhaps not care. But I don't have that luxury of separating myself for society as a whole.

Okay then every person must get weighed and if they say you are a fatty then you need to be chained to a treadmill until you slim down. My point is, why do children have to be singled out when it is the ADULT that usually is causing the problem? I know a whole family of obese people. They think they can't lose weight because of genetics. While some of that is true and I agree, the other half is that they inhale everything they see! Why not single those types of people out? Why do the children have to be punished because of the stupidness of the adults?

What about those kids who's parents smoke? You know. The ones who come in smelling strongly like an ashtray. Who are always sick. Who have weekly ear infections, upper respiratory infections and suffer from asthma. What about these kids? They contribute to the rising costs to tax payers (medicaid/medicare) and our increases in private insurances rates as well. Do we report their parents for child abuse and call them inadequate?

Not disputing your thought, just adding a "what if" to it.

Exactly! I have met the family that is perplexed that their child "keeps getting sick" and has a "cough he can't get rid of." Meanwhile the kid (when he was 3!) stinks like an ashtray. I know the child wasn't smoking. When you pull up to school you get to see her and her husband puffing away in the car with the window open a crack with the child inside. COME ON!!!!!! How stupid can you be?!

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

The perhaps gets into the dreaded political debate, but I sort of think since its my tax dollars paying for medicare/medicaid and my insurance premiums going up to cover the related illnesses - it is society's job. If I got to live in a bubble with "go ahead and kill yourself, what do I care" I would perhaps not care. But I don't have that luxury of separating myself for society as a whole.

Something's gonna kill you.

It doesn't matter to me whether you eat yourself to death, catch cancer, etc, SOMETHING is going to drive up my premiums, and SOMETHING's going to eventually kill you.

Life has a 100% mortality rate.

Look, the healthy person who comes down with breast and bone cancer is going to have a very long, expensive road to recovery, if she makes it.

On the other hand, that five hundred pound guy on the ecv may just wake up one morning dead of a coronary. Before then he was perfectly happy going from buffet to buffet, and then boom, dead.

He's going to cost my premiums a lot less than the woman with cancer.

And I have no problem with that.

Although I do confess I get really cranky about somebody who smokes for 30 years and then comes down with lung cancer, those people should pay more for their insurance to start out with.

 

[taitai]

Something's gonna kill you.

It doesn't matter to me whether you eat yourself to death, catch cancer, etc, SOMETHING is going to drive up my premiums, and SOMETHING's going to eventually kill you.

Life has a 100% mortality rate.

Look, the healthy person who comes down with breast and bone cancer is going to have a very long, expensive road to recovery, if she makes it.

On the other hand, that five hundred pound guy on the ecv may just wake up one morning dead of a coronary. Before then he was perfectly happy going from buffet to buffet, and then boom, dead.

He's going to cost my premiums a lot less than the woman with cancer.

And I have no problem with that.

Although I do confess I get really cranky about somebody who smokes for 30 years and then comes down with lung cancer, those people should pay more for their insurance to start out with.

Yes, but is rare that a person goes straight from 500lbs to dead.

First they go through diabetes with all the associated costs of insulin and ER visits for insulin over doses or underdoses and surgery to amputate limbs due to complications. Then they have their first heart attack and so it is the huge cost of that hospitalization plus the meds plus the stent they had to put in or the bypass plus all the cardiac rehab. Then all the medical equiptment needed because of the weight, the joints are shot and so they need a scooter to get around and a special car.

In the end, the breast cancer patient is much, much cheaper.

 

[RMulieri]

Yes, but is rare that a person goes straight from 500lbs to dead.

First they go through diabetes with all the associated costs of insulin and ER visits for insulin over doses or underdoses and surgery to amputate limbs due to complications. Then they have their first heart attack and so it is the huge cost of that hospitalization plus the meds plus the stent they had to put in or the bypass plus all the cardiac rehab. Then all the medical equiptment needed because of the weight, the joints are shot and so they need a scooter to get around and a special car.

In the end, the breast cancer patient is much, much cheaper.

I agree with you.Seriously I can';t believe we are comparing cancer to obesity.... Obesity by quite a far margin can cost the medical system more not less( I am not downplaying cancer either since I am an oncology nurse now) Obesity is a slippery slope. I have worked in all areas of nursing since I started over 12 years ago.No one just goes from being a walking talking obese person with no health issues to just dropping dead instantly.I have spent hours on patient education and helping patients that are morbidly obese learn to take care of the chronic health issues they have only to have the same patients return to the hospital over and over again with the same issues and expect the Drs and nurses to patch them up till the next time around.In return, huge medical costs for the patients, increase in hospital costs because equipment is no longer large enough, and nurses have an increase of work related injuries because of trying to lift and care for the bedridden obese patient. We have the same number of nurses to staff our units, but the patients sometimes require more than one nurse at times.It is a bad situation all around. SO far the government as well as everyone else seems to think if we pretend it isn't happening than it isn't.Something somewhere needs to be done.If we need to start in the schools, so be it.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

I hear what you're saying (or rather, see).

I wish there was an insurance adjuster who could tell us which was the costlier disease, morbid obesity or cancer, in general.

Not that any of us would like to have either one...

I guess the people I see in Disney don't look sick, just fat.

But if what you're saying is accurate, then it's certainly more of a public health issue vs what I would consider unhealthy (but personal) behavior...

 

[crisi]

Most types of cancer are linked to obesity. So it isn't a clear cut anyway. Not that thin people don't get cancer, but their rates are a lot lower for many types of cancer.

 

[DawnM]

This thread is reminding me of another reason we haven't done free dining!


Dawn

 

[Aristomommy]

Our school district has the same question and it doesn't bother me one bit. I have studied public health for years and it has changed the way I view health overall. Schools must do certain units on nutrition, exercise and other healthy lifestyles and I know DD has receive many units on this topic. They often look for at risk children as well for different programs from the government as well to help overwight children from becoming obese. BMI while not always accurate does serve as a quick screener for this purpose.

Obesity epidemic will be a costly problem for my generation and my children's generation. Not just because of obesity but all related diseases such as diabetes, stroke, joint replacements, pressure sores etc. When an obese person loses their mobility it becomes a difficult situation that can lead a person into a nursing home. Our children need all the help they can get, school is a big part of the solution.

 

[fussymonkey]

Even if obtaining a child's BMI is a screener for obesity and used to determine if the child/parent is a candidate for additional nutritional education, isn't simply viewing the child as, or possibly more, effective? A child who appears fat is likely fat, where a child with an above normal bmi may or may not be fat.

In any case, all the cirrculum on nutritional information and healthy living should be provided across the board to all children regardless of the child's bmi. The only reasons to "need" a child's bmi is either for simply gather data across a school, district and/or state - or- to catch children for intervention. Its singling children out for intervention that makes me uncomfortable.

 

[taitai]

Even if obtaining a child's BMI is a screener for obesity and used to determine if the child/parent is a candidate for additional nutritional education, isn't simply viewing the child as, or possibly more, effective? A child who appears fat is likely fat, where a child with an above normal bmi may or may not be fat.

In any case, all the cirrculum on nutritional information and healthy living should be provided across the board to all children regardless of the child's bmi. The only reasons to "need" a child's bmi is either for simply gather data across a school, district and/or state - or- to catch children for intervention. Its singling children out for intervention that makes me uncomfortable.

I couldn't agree more that nutrition education and healthy lifestyle education should be across the board. However, I have no problems singling children out for intervention. In every other area, schools single children out for intervention. Super gifted...go to that program. Struggling a bit...go to that program. Have special needs...here is a program for you. Behavioral problems...here is your program. I don't see why this is any different.