What do you think about the new school BMI questions?

[ilandrazdsw]

What is a school doctor? We consider ourselves lucky that we have a school nurse at every school - many schools here have to share the nurses. I don'thave a problem with the BMI thing - I'm guessing our schools do this, since the kids get weighed and measured each year. I think a lot of parents really don't realize how overweight their children actually are - "baby fat," "solid," "big boned" - many of these kids are overweight or obese. Once a woman referred to her 8 year old as "a little chubby." She wore a size 16! This woman herself must've weighed 300 pounds herself, so to her, her dd was only a little chubby. Ds10 is a little overweight (according to the Wii). Everyone tells me he's just solid - nope, if the belly is soft, it's fat. He's on 4 teams this spring, gets PLENTY of exercise, so we just make sure he eats healthy, with healthy portions.

So if it is not a washboard 6-pack the child is considered fat? Children need fat, not to be fat, for stored energy. Girls/women are designed to have some fat for pregnancy. We have been bombarded with unrealistic pictures of what people should look like. Now, I am not saying being a size 16 at 8 years old is in any way healthy or should be ignored. There is a reality that has been lost and is replaced by airbrushed ads, cosmetic surgery, and brainwashing tv shows and informercials.

 

[mom2princessj]

Well today we went to the dr for next year's kindergarten physical/5 year check up for dd and 4 year check up for ds. They actually wrote dd's BMI on her school sheet. It didn't ask for it though. DD is in 25th percentile for weight and 40th for height so no weight problems here. But how do you know when the BMI is too high?
My 4 yo is only 3lbs away from my 5 year old He's still in 25th percentile for weight and height (he's short) but it cracks me up that my kids are only 3lbs apart and 15 mos apart in age. I guess all that eating ds does is catching up with him

 

[Schmeck]

No need to be snarky. Yes. I do have that option and I do pack his lunch since he cannot eat just about anything on the menu because it is slathered in cheese. My point is though- so what if I can pack a lunch? The school sells lunch and they sell crap. Don't give parents a hard time about something that you don't even model!



It is not for the school to be involved in. Period. If the child doesn't have doctor's care then they would be getting their physical in school from the school doctor. Then that doctor can address it with those parents. The same way my doctor would address it with me. It is not the administration's job to worry about obesity. When they start modeling healthy living and don't have any overweight staff then maybe I might give them a listen. Until then they need to stay out of people's private business.

Oh- and an overweight child doesn't always mean they have inadequate parents.

Asking if you have the option to pack a healthy lunch is not snarky. If everyone packed their kids a healthy lunch, and no one bought the crap from the school, then it would be a good thing, right?

Our school system does not offer physicals by a doctor unless you have made a high school sports team. There is no school doctor. Some schools even share a nurse.

Not all school systems have the ideal family demographics - insurance, two parents, middle class, etc. Lots of kids get free lunch/breakfast because there is no food at home, no money, no adult supervision for hours at a time. The school steps in to help when it can, but free food has to come from somewhere, cafeterias have to show a profit now, if they are in the red then it's a big problem, and the government still hands out the surplus crap for free. I wish they gave healthier free foods, but they don't. If a child has to chose between being hungry and eating the free crap in the cafe, I'm guessing he would pick the crap.

Our school system offers a hot veggie or salad with every lunch - the high school kids either don't take it, or dump it in the trash. All the milk is either 1% or skim. The only soda machine is in the teacher's room.

If a child is obese, then yes, there is major inadequate parenting going on, as there are serious health issues to consider. Mildly overweight? Not sure if the studies show heart damage/cholesterol buildup for having a few extra pounds of fat on a child, but I don't think any good parent would want their child to develop health issues because of a weight problem.

 

[mumto3girls]

As someone who recalls being embarrassed during the dreaded weigh-ins in PE in junior high and high school, I have issues with this as well.

We were informed last year that our school district would start calculating BMI and sending the information home to parents. It did come through the mail--which was better than being passed out in school-- and was just a computer printout of a speadsheet type thing that showed height, weight and their calculation of the BMI. Last year my daughter didn't seem to have any issues with being weighed and measured, but this year she said all the girls were talking about who weighed what and who was "fat" and who wasn't. She is only in 2nd grade and it really brought back those old anxieties for me even though she said no one really said anything to her.

We watch DD's diet and her weight very closely due to some other health issues she has. My family does eat very healthy food, in fact, DD's teacher often jokes that she would like to be adopted by me since the snacks and lunches I pack for DD are so healthy and that is the way she should be eating too. In spite of this, DD has been in the "at risk" of being overweight category for several years and just this year went slightly below and is now just within a "normal" range for her weight.

Obviously my child has concerned, involved parents and has regular medical treatment that addresses this issue and I guess that not all kids do. However, if the parents aren't involved and aren't concerned, is a note from the school nurse going to make a difference? It seems unlikely to me. I just don't get the point of it. It just seems to me to be completely none of their business.

And also, our school lunches are lousy too. DD gets to pick one day a week to buy and the rest of the time I pack her lunch. It's pizza three times a week, chicken patty, chicken nuggets, hamburgers, pancakes/french toast and nachos grande! Accompanied by french fries, tator tots and canned fruit--probably in syrup.

They do have outdoor recess fairly often and PE twice a week though.

 

[peytonsmomie]

Purchasing healthy food to pack from home is not always an option. Studies show that families who rely on foodstamps have the least ability to provide healthy options for their children. There's something seriously wrong when I can buy a box of twinkies for the same cost as a pound of fresh jonnagold apples.

The poorest families in the nation are also (statistically) the most obese. This is because it is a choiceless reliance on the free lunches/breakfasts in schools, small foodstamp budgets that must stretch to feed everyone in the family for a full month. Again, when a 10 dollars worth of frozen chicken patties, jarred spaghetti sauce, and dried pasta feed a family of 5 an entire meal, who can "splurge" on fresh free range chicken (7.99lb where I live), salad fixings (don't get me started on the cost of fresh veggies!), etc?

I stand by my early comment in this thread that I don't want my child's school fussing with their BMI. Perhaps a simple solution would be to allow medically supported opt outs, where my doctor can waive my child's participation in this type of program.

Bottom line, active and involved parents shouldn't be forced to overturn their parenting to the state just to satiate the state's desire to combat childhood obesity.

 

[Schmeck]

I stand by my early comment in this thread that I don't want my child's school fussing with their BMI. Perhaps a simple solution would be to allow medically supported opt outs, where my doctor can waive my child's participation in this type of program.

Bottom line, active and involved parents shouldn't be forced to overturn their parenting to the state just to satiate the state's desire to combat childhood obesity.

Very good idea - my daughter had just had a full physical right before the scoliosis screenings, so we used the 'show proof opt-out' part of the notice sent home. If parents submit a copy of the latest, up-to-date physical, with a BMI, the school could save time and money.

The second part I quoted though - it seems that most posters having a problem with having a BMI found talk about their own traumas with weight issues, not the child's problem. I'm just not seeing how taking a height and weight, then converting it into a BMI and sending it home privately, with info about it, is overturning a parent's right to parent. Morbid obesity in a child is pretty much child neglect and abuse - the parent has a responsibility to raise a child in a positive, healthy environment. Contributing to a leading cause of serious heart and artery issues, breathing issues, and even premature death, is abuse.

 

[ilandrazdsw]

Don't know about other parents, but I would rather my child take the PE/health period in which they spend the time in the locker room (or wherever) to, I don't know...exercise and play! Some programs that do this may call students in one at a time while another teacher supervises the kids in the gyom or on the field; however, the school I worked at, whenever they did anything in the locker room, the whole class was in the locker room and it was a wasted period...like one less period for the teachers to have to plan. I feel the same way if they are being taken out of academics. My child is in school to learn, not to have something done that is done at his Drs.

 

[Leajess99]

In our school district almost all of the students receive free breakfast/lunch. The point of that program is that they're supposed to be getting a nutritious meal(s) because they may not be eating anything healthy at home. My kids don't buy lunch because there is nothing on the menu that I would allow them to eat. (Yes, we occasionally have pizza or a burger, but we also eat fresh fruits and vegetables that day. Mozzarella sticks as an entree ) Once I let my DD get the pizza. The vegetable... french fries. The fruit... some sugary cherry cobler that she wouldn't touch.

They did slightly increase their gym this year to 3 times a week instead of every other day and they have recess every day.

Wow, our school district serves fruits and vegetables EVERYday and they are real fruits and veggies and not the fries. our school may serve sherbert once a month but no ice cream or extra junk. The teach the kids in PE about health as well as do exercise, etc. Our PE teacher is wonderful and has even started an after school program for families. I guess we just have a good school but even when I was in school and we were allowed to buy junk the obesity rates were not as high as they are now. The problem is not the schools but parents allowing kids to sit in front of the television and video games for hours on end. We used to love to play outside and ride bikes and so many kids do not have that opportunity anymore. My kids play sports and are very active.

 

[Leajess99]

But that's my whole point.
In my case, apparently I could be reported to Children's Aid over a suspected cavity. When I asked my dentist he said that it's not an empty threat - children's aid does follow up and there are repercussions.
And, there's no way those resources should be wasted on that.
But I guarantee you that the next time I'm told about a dental screening at the school I will opt out.

If you start threatening families of overweight kids what will the outcome be? And how much weight is too much?

But do you know how many people don't take their children to the dentist even though they are made aware of a problem?? The damage to permanent teeth can happen and the pain some kids feel from cavities that are ignored is unreal. I was at a dental specialist's office last year for a root canal and these parents decided they did not want to put out the money to have 3 root canals done on their child. He was about 10 and when he left the staff was just shocked. The child had been complaining of the pain and here the parents decided it was not worth it to them to have the root canals. At that age you can't really pull permanent teeth.

In our district, dental screenings will be required for newly enrolled students next school year. My kids see the dentist every 6 months as well as the older ones seeing the orthodontist and the youngest will see the orthodontist this year just to check and see how her teeth are.

 

[Leajess99]

It is not for the school to be involved in. Period. If the child doesn't have doctor's care then they would be getting their physical in school from the school doctor. Then that doctor can address it with those parents. The same way my doctor would address it with me. It is not the administration's job to worry about obesity. When they start modeling healthy living and don't have any overweight staff then maybe I might give them a listen. Until then they need to stay out of people's private business.

Oh- and an overweight child doesn't always mean they have inadequate parents.

Our schools do NOT have school doctors for kids to have physicals done and most kids are not getting physicals every year. Many school districts only require them in Kindergarteners or newly transferred students and then for entrance into 6th grade and sports physicals.

 

[mjkacmom]

So if it is not a washboard 6-pack the child is considered fat? Children need fat, not to be fat, for stored energy. Girls/women are designed to have some fat for pregnancy. We have been bombarded with unrealistic pictures of what people should look like. Now, I am not saying being a size 16 at 8 years old is in any way healthy or should be ignored. There is a reality that has been lost and is replaced by airbrushed ads, cosmetic surgery, and brainwashing tv shows and informercials.

Since when do kids need to have a jiggily belly for energy? Three of my kids do have washboards, and they seem to have plenty of energy! Belly fat is NOT a good thing - maybe if you are trying to survive in the wild? Trust me - my 6 and 8 year olds are not influenced by airbrushed magazines - at this age, they really don't notice their bodies. Dd12 has a little belly fat - she's a "woman" now, and that's natural. Women are softer than girls. Ds10 has yet to reach puberty - the last thing he needs is those "man ****s" that so many young men seems to be sporting.

That said, it does bother me that when they measure the kids, they tell them how much they weigh, and their height. They are peer pressured into sharing this information with their peers, which is hard for not only the heavy kids, but the skinny kids, and short kids. They should just mail the information home.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Our schools do NOT have school doctors for kids to have physicals done and most kids are not getting physicals every year. Many school districts only require them in Kindergarteners or newly transferred students and then for entrance into 6th grade and sports physicals.

Our schools do. If you do not have your ped do a physical the school will provide a doctor (during school) to give the physical. There is no charge for this and it is scheduled during the child's school time. Our schools require a physical every 2 years or you cannot attend.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Since when do kids need to have a jiggily belly for energy? Three of my kids do have washboards, and they seem to have plenty of energy! Belly fat is NOT a good thing - maybe if you are trying to survive in the wild? Trust me - my 6 and 8 year olds are not influenced by airbrushed magazines - at this age, they really don't notice their bodies. Dd12 has a little belly fat - she's a "woman" now, and that's natural. Women are softer than girls. Ds10 has yet to reach puberty - the last thing he needs is those "man ****s" that so many young men seems to be sporting.

That said, it does bother me that when they measure the kids, they tell them how much they weigh, and their height. They are peer pressured into sharing this information with their peers, which is hard for not only the heavy kids, but the skinny kids, and short kids. They should just mail the information home.

I understand what you are saying and on some level I agree with you but not totally. People come in all different sizes and shapes. I grew up in the same house as my sister. We ate the same foods. Very little junk food if any. Mostly whole foods. No processed junk. I struggle with my weight while she is a waif. We did not have inadequate parenting. We were not lazy kids who sat watching tv. We were very active. I will never look like her. I will always have to struggle to maintain some kind of healthy weight. Should I go live in the wild?

 

[crisi]

I understand what you are saying and on some level I agree with you but not totally. People come in all different sizes and shapes. I grew up in the same house as my sister. We ate the same foods. Very little junk food if any. Mostly whole foods. No processed junk. I struggle with my weight while she is a waif. We did not have inadequate parenting. We were not lazy kids who sat watching tv. We were very active. I will never look like her. I will always have to struggle to maintain some kind of healthy weight. Should I go live in the wild?

But you were not morbidly obese....at least your description of yourself is that you are an endomorph.

There are kids in my kids' classrooms who are morbidly obese - who have major health issues at ten and eleven due to having been overweight the vast majority of their young lives, and whose parents ARE guilty of inadequate parenting.

Maybe a school district that can afford doctors can afford an army of social workers to address kids who 'could stand to loose five pounds' and your concerns are valid. But I suspect for most districts and states, the resources are stretched so tight that schools - should they even be tackling anything on an individual level which no one has provided a cite for and not addressing the obesity epidemic among kids at a population level - are only going to be able to address the egregious cases.

Kids are measured constantly in school - and constantly compare each others measurements. Whether its the score on the spelling test on the number of jump rope skips you can do without missing or the number of times you need to go to the time out corner. Everyone knows who goes to which special ed group. And the socio-economic variation is well understood by elementary school kids as well - who lives in a big house, who doesn't have fashionable clothes, whose parents are divorced, who is on free lunch. By junior high the understanding of what these things mean becomes second nature to most kids. One of the things I'm struggling with is why weight/height should be protected from measurement when almost nothing else is. Moreover, what difference does it make to put numbers on something everyone can see. Do overweight kids not feel pressure or get teased if we don't weigh them?

 

[mjkacmom]

I understand what you are saying and on some level I agree with you but not totally. People come in all different sizes and shapes. I grew up in the same house as my sister. We ate the same foods. Very little junk food if any. Mostly whole foods. No processed junk. I struggle with my weight while she is a waif. We did not have inadequate parenting. We were not lazy kids who sat watching tv. We were very active. I will never look like her. I will always have to struggle to maintain some kind of healthy weight. Should I go live in the wild?

I have the worst metabolism, like everyone in my family. I've struggled with my weight my entire life, as has my mom, dad, and sister. DH's family has a really fast metabolism. Four of my kids are truly blessed with his, one is cursed with mine. The kids are aware of this. Ds doesn't eat any more than his siblings, and is more active, and yet he's the overweight one. Food is fuel, and his body need less fuel than his siblings. Luckily, he's not a couch potato, and has a lot of energy, and loves sports. He's also just as content with an apple as with a cookie. I'm not worried about him, as long as he stays within the "at risk of being overweight" area (he's been over). Dd12 is thin, but eats when she's tired, bored, cranky, etc. Even though she's thin, I worry about her, because that's not healthy. She also gets little physical activity, besides walking to school (not into sports -choirs and theater are her thing).

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

The second part I quoted though - it seems that most posters having a problem with having a BMI found talk about their own traumas with weight issues, not the child's problem. I'm just not seeing how taking a height and weight, then converting it into a BMI and sending it home privately, with info about it, is overturning a parent's right to parent. Morbid obesity in a child is pretty much child neglect and abuse - the parent has a responsibility to raise a child in a positive, healthy environment. Contributing to a leading cause of serious heart and artery issues, breathing issues, and even premature death, is abuse.

I would disagree. I'm tall and skinny, my kids are tall and skinny. I have issues with this because I feel it is yet another invasion of government into our lives. I am perfectly capable of taking care of my children without the government's assistance, thank you.

And here's the flip side of the coin-my children and I have no problems staying skinny, and it's not (according to my DH) because of our fabulous eating habits (not always) or our stringent exercising (not always). It's because we have killer metabolisms. And on the genetic roulette, we came up tall and skinny.

So when my tall skinny kids are standing next to regular kids or kids that are probably taking in the same amount of calories that they are and yet are storing those calories as fat rather than burning them off, I don't want those other kids to feel bad about themselves. It's not their fault! I (and my kids) are not doing anything "special" or "better", given the same # of calories and same amount of exercise as a "regular" person, we just end up skinnier.

Again, I don't think it's the government's place to decide who's fit, who's fat, and who needs "monitoring."

 

[Mouse House Mama]

But you were not morbidly obese....at least your description of yourself is that you are an endomorph.

There are kids in my kids' classrooms who are morbidly obese - who have major health issues at ten and eleven due to having been overweight the vast majority of their young lives, and whose parents ARE guilty of inadequate parenting.

Maybe a school district that can afford doctors can afford an army of social workers to address kids who 'could stand to loose five pounds' and your concerns are valid. But I suspect for most districts and states, the resources are stretched so tight that schools - should they even be tackling anything on an individual level which no one has provided a cite for and not addressing the obesity epidemic among kids at a population level - are only going to be able to address the egregious cases.

Kids are measured constantly in school - and constantly compare each others measurements. Whether its the score on the spelling test on the number of jump rope skips you can do without missing or the number of times you need to go to the time out corner. Everyone knows who goes to which special ed group. And the socio-economic variation is well understood by elementary school kids as well - who lives in a big house, who doesn't have fashionable clothes, whose parents are divorced, who is on free lunch. By junior high the understanding of what these things mean becomes second nature to most kids. One of the things I'm struggling with is why weight/height should be protected from measurement when almost nothing else is. Moreover, what difference does it make to put numbers on something everyone can see. Do overweight kids not feel pressure or get teased if we don't weigh them?

I have the worst metabolism, like everyone in my family. I've struggled with my weight my entire life, as has my mom, dad, and sister. DH's family has a really fast metabolism. Four of my kids are truly blessed with his, one is cursed with mine. The kids are aware of this. Ds doesn't eat any more than his siblings, and is more active, and yet he's the overweight one. Food is fuel, and his body need less fuel than his siblings. Luckily, he's not a couch potato, and has a lot of energy, and loves sports. He's also just as content with an apple as with a cookie. I'm not worried about him, as long as he stays within the "at risk of being overweight" area (he's been over). Dd12 is thin, but eats when she's tired, bored, cranky, etc. Even though she's thin, I worry about her, because that's not healthy. She also gets little physical activity, besides walking to school (not into sports -choirs and theater are her thing).

I think that for the most part we actually agree. No I am not morbidly obese nor is anyone in my family. (Thank God!) I do however have to watch everything I eat. I swear if I look at food my butt grows! I do understand that weighing a child will not all of a sudden bring the fact that they are so overweight into view. I am sure that they know they are overweight and so do the other kids. My concerns though is that since this is brought to everyone's attention in a spotlight so to speak it becomes fodder for the children's gossip.
Here is an example. I know a child that is very very overweight. I feel so bad for this child. The mother feeds the child crap. She says that is all he likes. (bull) She is a lazy parent in this department. She makes sure she exercises every day etc. She is not overweight. No amount of anything from the school will change her thinking. She is confrontational and would not take to their advice very kindly. Should someone advocate for that child? Absolutely. Will it matter to this particular parent. Absolutely not. So no matter how much of a big deal that the school makes this parent will tell the school to F off. I would wager that many people are like that. So now the school has made such an issue of this that this child's home life is listening to his parents rant about how annoyed they are with the school. The parents either berate the child because it can't possibly be the parent's fault, or the tell the child that the school is a bunch of idiots. Either way the seed is planted and the child's self esteem starts to erode away. In this world where we give everyone a trophy for nothing this child is being picked on for something that he cannot control. He is a child. He does not bring the food into the house. He doesn't prepare it. What is the solution for this child? BMI? Weekly weigh ins? I don't agree. If the schools had an after school or evening family workout program I think it would be better received by all. Parents would go. They could even charge for it but charge drastically less than the local gyms. Have fun activities that get you moving. Jump rope contests, hula hooping, obstacle course, basketball etc. Telling a parent that their child is obese without REALLY offering REAL help is doing nothing but fanning the flames of a fire imo.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Very good idea - my daughter had just had a full physical right before the scoliosis screenings, so we used the 'show proof opt-out' part of the notice sent home. If parents submit a copy of the latest, up-to-date physical, with a BMI, the school could save time and money.

The second part I quoted though - it seems that most posters having a problem with having a BMI found talk about their own traumas with weight issues, not the child's problem. I'm just not seeing how taking a height and weight, then converting it into a BMI and sending it home privately, with info about it, is overturning a parent's right to parent. Morbid obesity in a child is pretty much child neglect and abuse - the parent has a responsibility to raise a child in a positive, healthy environment. Contributing to a leading cause of serious heart and artery issues, breathing issues, and even premature death, is abuse.

You are correct! The reason I am talking about my trauma is because when this happened in school it started a lifetime of food issues for me where I never had them before. I won't bore you with the details but let's just say that it didn't have any positive effect at all. I will not let my children be subjected to that.

 

[SharkyGoddess]

What you all are not realizing is that many, many children in the US are not seen regularly, or at all, by a doctor. They don't have health insurance, or a way to get to the doctor, or the parent doesn't have the luxury of a day off from work for the appointment, etc. The schools have been stuck taking up the slack for parenting children who have inadequate parents.

I want to make sure I understand you correctly. You think parents who work and may not be able to take off from work are inadequate? I've noticed several of your posts are very negative against children in general, but now it seems you're very negative towards families as a whole. There are a great many families who are very hard working who's employers do not provide adequate insurance, leaving the family most often to fend for themselves medically. Not all families have the luxury of state funded medical insurance or claiming some disability on their child and receiving free insurance and are paying 100% out of pocket and doing the very best they can.

As for the schools and excersize, they need to stop playing dodge ball and start teaching kids REAL excersizes and making it fun early enough in life so that as they grow up it WILL become a good, daily habit and one they enjoy and keep. Give them 30 minutes to speed walk, or jog, or do light aerobics. Light weights for the boys would be a wonderful idea and there are a lot of girls who would enjoy it too.

The lunches are crap! But here's a secret (at least for my area). I have a friend who works for a food distribution company and I helped out during one of the "food fairs". The local schools all attended to see what was new and make some orders for the upcoming year. I was sick to see what they actually had to choose from and what they chose and AT THE SAME PRICE!!! They made comments like "Oh, we'll never get kids to eat XYZ" Of course you won't if you never offer it to them! So the foods your school serves aren't necessarily cheaper than healthier options. Just junkier.

 

[crisi]

My concerns though is that since this is brought to everyone's attention in a spotlight so to speak it becomes fodder for the children's gossip.

My feeling is that the gossip is going to happen anyway, and the data gathered and tracked over time may be key in helping solve a health crisis. One of the issues in public health is getting data on scale - another is reaching the populations you need to reach. Schools provide easy access to both the data and the conduit to information.

It is so sad to see young people - kids and teens - who are morbidly obese. I'm one of those 'lucky thin' people (my husband is not and my daughter got his body type - so I'm familiar with the struggles) - and even us 'lucky thin' people struggle more and more as our body slows down to maintain a healthy weight - just losing the occasional ten after the holidays are a struggle. People entering their 20s carrying a hundred extra pounds or more - its like we've given them almost no chance to lose it - or to hope for a normal lifespan.

We were in Disney last week, and there was a little boy about three - and overweight. Little kids shouldn't be skinny - but this kid was well beyond 'baby fat.' And he was sitting in stroller, with a huge bag of Cheetos in his hand, moving the Cheetos methodically from bag into mouth - unaware he was eating, waiting for a parade.