What do you think about the new school BMI questions?

[smkiya]

As a cardiac nurse and parent, I’m baffled by some of the responses. I sincerely respect everyone’s opinion on the topic, but I think that the health of the nation is at risk and like another poster stated, there should be some type of reform. Obesity is an epidemic, it is a public health issue and it is getting much worse. A decrease in physical activity and an increase in convenient processed foods, as well as a lack of education about overall health is what is helping to increase this epidemic. Just recently I had a patient diagnosed with a condition that requires a decrease in sodium and fluids. He was on a diuretic to get rid of the excess fluid in his lungs. After educating the patient and his family and having them verbalize that they understood, I later walk into the room and a family member had just refilled his water pitcher and another brought him a big plate of French fries. I’m sad to say that this is not as unusual as you might think.

I’m surprised to read that some people don’t believe that health and wellness are academic subjects? Why then do MD’s have to spend 4 years in med school and then an additional 4 years in residency (minimum) to study this very subject. Obesity in children is at dangerous levels, and is in no way a vanity or self perception issue, it is a major health issue. Unhealthy weights related to eating habits and physical activity have created a huge increase in type 2 diabetes, increased cholesterol, and hypertension. Those other academic subjects won’t mean much when children spend most of their adult life in the emergency room or morgue (sorry to be frank, but this should not be sugar-coated). These are serious, serious, serious health concerns and can hugely impact the future of our nation, not only in medical costs but in a decrease in the human lifespan.

I do not however believe that BMI is an adequate indicator of overall health, especially in children. Perhaps they are choosing to use it to document the necessity of an increase in PE and school dietary changes. As we all know, healthy food is expensive and many districts do not have adequate funding to cover the cost. If they could show documented evidence that it should be required, then perhaps it will be. I think they need to find an alternative means to get the information they need though.

I also want to end with the fact that I do not believe that all overweight children or adults are unhealthy. If you eat a healthy well balanced diet, are regularly physically active, have routine physical examinations and have a higher than average BMI, you are definitely more healthy than the person with a normal BMI who eats junk and sits in front of the computer all day. Your overall health risks would be very low in comparison, and therefore you should not be compared based on BMI alone.

I just needed to say that health and wellness are academic subjects and the increase in childhood obesity (due to diet and inadequate physical activity) is a public health issue.

Added:
I also want to say that I don't believe that the gathering of the information should be done in front of other children. I personally know what it's like to be on the receiving end of harrassment from other kids and it can be a blow to self-esteem, especially in our society. Children should be taught to make healthy choices, but also to respect everyone for who they are, not what they look like.

 

[holly7347]

The only way I could possibly feel supportive of this is if it incites the schools to increase the amount of PE and active time kids get. I know in some states/districts kids only get 1 day of PE per week, and it's not even an hour on those days!

I agree. My Dd is in kindergarten this year and they only get gym once a week and recess once a week. And the stuff they serve for lunch in the cafeteria isn't healthy unless you just get a salad. So if they are going to start telling these kids they are overweight they need to make some changes to how much physical activity the kids get and the types of foods they serve for lunch. I also would have a problem with a gym teacher or someone just blurting out infront of the rest of the class your BMI is too high lose weight. I haven't seen them ask for BMI's that yet on DD's school paperwork.

 

[crisi]

I agree. My Dd is in kindergarten this year and they only get gym once a week and recess once a week. And the stuff they serve for lunch in the cafeteria isn't healthy unless you just get a salad. So if they are going to start telling these kids they are overweight they need to make some changes to how much physical activity the kids get and the types of foods they serve for lunch. I also would have a problem with a gym teacher or someone just blurting out infront of the rest of the class your BMI is too high lose weight. I haven't seen them ask for BMI's that yet on DD's school paperwork.

Frankly, if your gym teacher would do that - they'll do it without the BMI information - and just call your kid fat. Do you think people can't SEE which kids are overweight? Do you think an abusive teacher needs BMI information to start abusing kids over their weight?

However, if you are going to say, set a state goal through the school system to reduce obesity - you need a measurement system. BMI isn't perfect, but its easy and cheap to measure.

Then, once you have your initial population statistics, you can use it to a) justify inititives and b) measure the success of those initatives.

Possible initiatives could be more PE, healthier lunches, more nutrition information in health class, more individual intervention (kids are pulled out for reading intervention, do some kids need to be pulled out for PE intervention - my kids only get PE once a week - but I don't want them there anymore than once a week - they are healthy active kids without PE - but not all kids are).

But without the intial stats, you don't know if your efforts are successful.

 

[Miss LD]

My concern would be what the outcome of the BMI stats would be.
In our school system we have voluntary dental checks for jk students. I didn't think twice about it - what was the harm?
It turned out that my son had a stain on his tooth that LOOKED like a cavity. I got a letter home that wasn't filled out correctly - sent by the health board.
The long and short of it was that I had to have DS checked by a dentist.
I was then told that if they didn't receive notification from my dentist that I had brought DS in - the Children's Aid would be notified.
So, I wonder just how harmless this whole BMI thing is. If your child gains excessive weight then what?
It's a slippery slope.

 

[okeydokey]

My husband is going back to school for his bachelor's in nursing. Last semester their project was to work with the schools to track the BMI info for our county. (Tracking BMI is going to be required for New York state, so the college was offering to help the schools with collecting the data.) My husband went to some of the school board meetings and took measurements of the kids in school.


At the meetings my DH went to most parents seemed to be supportive. There were concerns with confidentiality and they discussed how the information would be sent home: report cards, separate, info offered at evening meetings open to all parents. Acutally some of the schools were more worried than the parents that they might be labeled a "fat" school.



In our area the PE teacher has nothing to do with it. The children are brought into the nurse's office individually, so they are not being weighed in front of their classmates. If there is an issue the parents can discuss it with the nurse. They were also considering setting up some education programs for parents/families.

Honestly some kids don't see a doctor (and some doctors don't bother to actually talk to the kids or parents). Many of the kids in our schools get their physicals at school. That Dr/PA may not have the time discuss BMI or healthy eating with the kids, and if the parent isn't there they may not be getting the message.





I agree! In our school district almost all of the students receive free breakfast/lunch. The point of that program is that they're supposed to be getting a nutritious meal(s) because they may not be eating anything healthy at home. My kids don't buy lunch because there is nothing on the menu that I would allow them to eat. (Yes, we occasionally have pizza or a burger, but we also eat fresh fruits and vegetables that day. Mozzarella sticks as an entree ) Once I let my DD get the pizza. The vegetable... french fries. The fruit... some sugary cherry cobler that she wouldn't touch.

They did slightly increase their gym this year to 3 times a week instead of every other day and they have recess every day.

Off topic,......This is weird, the post above that was attributed to me wasn't what I wrote. The other post that you quoted was mine but had someone else's name on it. IS this a board glitch? Anyone having a problem with quoted posts not belonging to who they say they belong to?

 

[crisi]

So, I wonder just how harmless this whole BMI thing is. If your child gains excessive weight then what?
It's a slippery slope.

Well, if the kid gains excessive weight, isn't it best for the child to make certain that they ARE under a doctor's care? And if the parents are not willing to take steps to address their child's health, isn't it in the child's best interest for the state to step in and enforce the child getting medical care?

I guess I have no problem with that slippery slope. I don't think our government (or yours) has time or resources to go after 'kids who could stand to loose five pounds.' But if they go after the parents of eleven year olds who need to loose sixty and aren't under a doctor's care, I'm all for that.

 

[RMulieri]

As a cardiac nurse and parent, I’m baffled by some of the responses. I sincerely respect everyone’s opinion on the topic, but I think that the health of the nation is at risk and like another poster stated, there should be some type of reform. Obesity is an epidemic, it is a public health issue and it is getting much worse. A decrease in physical activity and an increase in convenient processed foods, as well as a lack of education about overall health is what is helping to increase this epidemic. Just recently I had a patient diagnosed with a condition that requires a decrease in sodium and fluids. He was on a diuretic to get rid of the excess fluid in his lungs. After educating the patient and his family and having them verbalize that they understood, I later walk into the room and a family member had just refilled his water pitcher and another brought him a big plate of French fries. I’m sad to say that this is not as unusual as you might think.

I’m surprised to read that some people don’t believe that health and wellness are academic subjects? Why then do MD’s have to spend 4 years in med school and then an additional 4 years in residency (minimum) to study this very subject. Obesity in children is at dangerous levels, and is in no way a vanity or self perception issue, it is a major health issue. Unhealthy weights related to eating habits and physical activity have created a huge increase in type 2 diabetes, increased cholesterol, and hypertension. Those other academic subjects won’t mean much when children spend most of their adult life in the emergency room or morgue (sorry to be frank, but this should not be sugar-coated). These are serious, serious, serious health concerns and can hugely impact the future of our nation, not only in medical costs but in a decrease in the human lifespan.

I do not however believe that BMI is an adequate indicator of overall health, especially in children. Perhaps they are choosing to use it to document the necessity of an increase in PE and school dietary changes. As we all know, healthy food is expensive and many districts do not have adequate funding to cover the cost. If they could show documented evidence that it should be required, then perhaps it will be. I think they need to find an alternative means to get the information they need though.

I also want to end with the fact that I do not believe that all overweight children or adults are unhealthy. If you eat a healthy well balanced diet, are regularly physically active, have routine physical examinations and have a higher than average BMI, you are definitely more healthy than the person with a normal BMI who eats junk and sits in front of the computer all day. Your overall health risks would be very low in comparison, and therefore you should not be compared based on BMI alone.

I just needed to say that health and wellness are academic subjects and the increase in childhood obesity (due to diet and inadequate physical activity) is a public health issue.

Added:
I also want to say that I don't believe that the gathering of the information should be done in front of other children. I personally know what it's like to be on the receiving end of harrassment from other kids and it can be a blow to self-esteem, especially in our society. Children should be taught to make healthy choices, but also to respect everyone for who they are, not what they look like.

A fellow nurse here who totally agrees. Whenever something is deemed a public health crisis schools and government gets involved. It is getting worse.Obesity,heart disease, and diabetes in children,and young adults is on the rise.It used to be we would see a few morbidly obese patients, now we are seeing them all the time and seeing morbidly obese children. We actually had a child recently who has the coronary arteries of a 60 yr old thanks to poor diet and obesity, and it was deemed that if something wasn't done soon this 13 yr old would have a heart attack by the time they hit their 20's. I simply don't see it as a case of "big brother" watching ,taking parental rights away, or violating a child's rights.As long as the info remains confidential from other students( which it should), I have no issue. I would rather they take this information ,provide education to kids with potential for risk, and re vamp schools lunches and PE programs as well as get kids moving after school.

 

[Miss LD]

Well, if the kid gains excessive weight, isn't it best for the child to make certain that they ARE under a doctor's care? And if the parents are not willing to take steps to address their child's health, isn't it in the child's best interest for the state to step in and enforce the child getting medical care?

I guess I have no problem with that slippery slope. I don't think our government (or yours) has time or resources to go after 'kids who could stand to loose five pounds.' But if they go after the parents of eleven year olds who need to loose sixty and aren't under a doctor's care, I'm all for that.

But that's my whole point.
In my case, apparently I could be reported to Children's Aid over a suspected cavity. When I asked my dentist he said that it's not an empty threat - children's aid does follow up and there are repercussions.
And, there's no way those resources should be wasted on that.
But I guarantee you that the next time I'm told about a dental screening at the school I will opt out.

If you start threatening families of overweight kids what will the outcome be? And how much weight is too much?

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I don't care how "confidential" they say it is, it never is. They didn't announce your weight at school but unless you were blindfolded you could see. The two teachers did speak to each other so one could write it down. I also do not believe that all children who fall into the "overweight" category with BMI are a health risk. It is simply not an accurate measure of anything. The school has a copy of your child's physical information from the doctor. That should suffice. You cannot enter school without it. My doctor does not do the BMI thing. It is not a measure of health. What next? You have to notify the school when your dd's start menstruating? They will call it some public health survey? Or when they lose a tooth? It has no place in schools. Period. If you want to teach a health class about healthy eating and what could happen if you constantly make bad choices then okay. To single out kids is wrong. There is no positive to it. Oh- and when all the teachers have to park their behinds up on a scale and get a lecture about healthy eating then you can come talk to me. Yeah, nobody would do that to an adult. Why? Because an adult would never put up with it. So why do children have to be humiliated?


ETA- This goes both ways. My Mom was super skinny. Everytime they weighed her in gym class they would make remarks such as "XXXlbs! Don't you eat?" etc. She was mortified and if you ask her about it today she will tell you that it was a horrible experience for her and she would never wish it on anyone.

 

[ilandrazdsw]

BMI is SOOO inaccurate, especially when it comes to children. UGH! When are schools going to lear that they are not the end-all be-all? I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with funding...like there is any $$ in any school system!?!? And if it is to show that school food programs need to be healthier and more PE time needs to be in the schools...most everyone knows this and will agree so just do it already!

Personally I would have the Dr leave it blank or ask him to write 0. Stupid questions get stupid answers.

 

[tzolkin]

Off topic,......This is weird, the post above that was attributed to me wasn't what I wrote. The other post that you quoted was mine but had someone else's name on it. IS this a board glitch? Anyone having a problem with quoted posts not belonging to who they say they belong to?

Oops... sorry about that.
I just used the multi-quote button as I was reading through the thread. No idea what happened. Maybe I did something wrong when I was writing my responses. I've never had that happen before.

 

[Schmeck]

I don't really agree with this but let's say it is true. The school lunches are packed with junk. They sell more junk food than a circus. You can get juice (which has the same sugar amount as soda) or milk with your lunch. (my kids can't have milk- allergies) Why can't they get a bottle of water? They can if they pay another $1 for it.
So they want to monitor what I do at home but they get to serve up crap on a platter? I don't think so. When the school serves healthy food then maybe they can talk to me.

You have the option of packing a lunch for your child, don't you?

 

[Schmeck]

Most of you are still missing the point - you talk about how it is the doctor's and parents' responsibility for a child's health and weight issues, but there are thousands of children in this country without access to a doctor, with inadequate parents!!!!!!!!!

Obesity is becoming a very expensive disability. Obesity leads to heart failure, and many other debilitating illnesses. It creeps up on you slowly - you don't go to bed skinny and wake up fat! Anything and everything that can decrease the obesity rate in this country is a good thing, IMO. Of course it has to be handled with dignity and respect, but it needs to be addressed.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

You have the option of packing a lunch for your child, don't you?

No need to be snarky. Yes. I do have that option and I do pack his lunch since he cannot eat just about anything on the menu because it is slathered in cheese. My point is though- so what if I can pack a lunch? The school sells lunch and they sell crap. Don't give parents a hard time about something that you don't even model!

Most of you are still missing the point - you talk about how it is the doctor's and parents' responsibility for a child's health and weight issues, but there are thousands of children in this country without access to a doctor, with inadequate parents!!!!!!!!!

Obesity is becoming a very expensive disability. Obesity leads to heart failure, and many other debilitating illnesses. It creeps up on you slowly - you don't go to bed skinny and wake up fat! Anything and everything that can decrease the obesity rate in this country is a good thing, IMO. Of course it has to be handled with dignity and respect, but it needs to be addressed.

It is not for the school to be involved in. Period. If the child doesn't have doctor's care then they would be getting their physical in school from the school doctor. Then that doctor can address it with those parents. The same way my doctor would address it with me. It is not the administration's job to worry about obesity. When they start modeling healthy living and don't have any overweight staff then maybe I might give them a listen. Until then they need to stay out of people's private business.

Oh- and an overweight child doesn't always mean they have inadequate parents.

 

[taitai]

I honestly don't see what the big deal is. Obesity is a major epidemic in this country. It has health, welfare and economic implications that are very far reaching. It is the school's job to prepare students for life. Not just math and reading but also the skills they will need to function as contributing citizens to this country. Yes, in an ideal world, parents would take over this function but as can be seen by the many, many obese kids and adults in this country, they are not. The schools, unfortunately, have to cater to the lowest common denominator and therefore they need to track this. Remember for many kids, especially those who qualify for breakfast, the school is their only guaranteed hot meal or nutritious meal of the day. It isn't surprising the schools are trying to assure healthy kids.

Yes, BMI isn't perfect but it is a very good indicator. Certainly, some kids might have high BMIs who are not obese or overweight but the majority of them with high BMIs are.

It is unfortunate that so many schools serve junk in the lunch room. We are fortunate that our school district works very hard to provide locally grown fruits and vegetables at all meals and offers many healthy snacks and few, if any, unhealthy ones. In addition, sweets are pretty much outlawed on campus. If it is a kid's birthday, the parents bring in a book and read to the class...no cupcakes or cakes are allowed. The school is trying to model healthy behavior. Perhaps if parents were willing to pay more for school lunches, the schools would be able to afford more healthy options. Alternatively, pack healthy food for your kid's lunch and don't rely on the school cafeteria.

Taitai

 

[ilandrazdsw]

Most of you are still missing the point - you talk about how it is the doctor's and parents' responsibility for a child's health and weight issues, but there are thousands of children in this country without access to a doctor, with inadequate parents!!!!!!!!!

Obesity is becoming a very expensive disability. Obesity leads to heart failure, and many other debilitating illnesses. It creeps up on you slowly - you don't go to bed skinny and wake up fat! Anything and everything that can decrease the obesity rate in this country is a good thing, IMO. Of course it has to be handled with dignity and respect, but it needs to be addressed.

If the school wants to address health issues, great! Teach it in class, serve healthy foods for lunches and snacks, and even hold free health education classes for the parents to voluntarily attend. Teach it school wide, but singling out students who have high BMIs isn't the wa to do it. What a better to turn kids to junk food than telling them they are fat and shouldn't eat it. Schools ahould encourage students to participate in sports and extracurriccular activities, rather than coming home and sitting infront of the tv/computer with an unhealthy/over portioned snack. Unfortunaletly programs are getting cut right and left in schools and communities. Technology has taken over everyday life, so the children that once went out and played tag or a pick-up game of basketball are now playing the games while sitting. Wii has tried to incorporate activity, but it still isn't the real thing!

 

[Mouse House Mama]

If the school wants to address health issues, great! Teach it in class, serve healthy foods for lunches and snacks, and even hold free health education classes for the parents to voluntarily attend. Teach it school wide, but singling out students who have high BMIs isn't the wa to do it. What a better to turn kids to junk food than telling them they are fat and shouldn't eat it. Schools ahould encourage students to participate in sports and extracurriccular activities, rather than coming home and sitting infront of the tv/computer with an unhealthy/over portioned snack. Unfortunaletly programs are getting cut right and left in schools and communities. Technology has taken over everyday life, so the children that once went out and played tag or a pick-up game of basketball are now playing the games while sitting. Wii has tried to incorporate activity, but it still isn't the real thing!

THANK YOU!!!!!!

 

[mjkacmom]

No need to be snarky. Yes. I do have that option and I do pack his lunch since he cannot eat just about anything on the menu because it is slathered in cheese. My point is though- so what if I can pack a lunch? The school sells lunch and they sell crap. Don't give parents a hard time about something that you don't even model!



It is not for the school to be involved in. Period. If the child doesn't have doctor's care then they would be getting their physical in school from the school doctor. Then that doctor can address it with those parents. The same way my doctor would address it with me. It is not the administration's job to worry about obesity. When they start modeling healthy living and don't have any overweight staff then maybe I might give them a listen. Until then they need to stay out of people's private business.

Oh- and an overweight child doesn't always mean they have inadequate parents.

What is a school doctor? We consider ourselves lucky that we have a school nurse at every school - many schools here have to share the nurses. I don'thave a problem with the BMI thing - I'm guessing our schools do this, since the kids get weighed and measured each year. I think a lot of parents really don't realize how overweight their children actually are - "baby fat," "solid," "big boned" - many of these kids are overweight or obese. Once a woman referred to her 8 year old as "a little chubby." She wore a size 16! This woman herself must've weighed 300 pounds herself, so to her, her dd was only a little chubby. Ds10 is a little overweight (according to the Wii). Everyone tells me he's just solid - nope, if the belly is soft, it's fat. He's on 4 teams this spring, gets PLENTY of exercise, so we just make sure he eats healthy, with healthy portions.

 

[ilandrazdsw]

THANK YOU!!!!!!

I could go on about how it is really about the food companies and the government that has allowed them to add crap to foods, etc, etc, etc. Junkier foods are often (NOT ALWAYS) cheaper than healthier foods...think about how many coupons there are for the processed foods.

Society in general is messed up...parents have to work full time to make ends meat, some families can barely put food on the table if at all, and healthcare takes a backseat to putting gas in the car to get to work. School is often the only constant that child have in their lives...the one place they know they will get food, shelter, and someone who cares. Schools in essence are taking over for parents...which is fine for those parents that don't care or need and appreciate the "help", but for parents that don't need "help" or want it it is seen as overstepping--in a *big* way! The intentions may be good, but it is often taken the wrong way...especially when schools/government come with "official" papers and threats.

The answers are not simple on how to improve America's health, but blaming the people that gaovernment needs on its side is not the way to go. Educate about what is good and bad and why, don't just tell and expect us to follow along without questions. Give healthy options and make companies that add crap to foods unnecessarily stop! Health issues are more than fat kids...the healthiest looking person could have more issues than a 300 lb person of the same age.

At DS' school the PE teacher told girls they were fat...I guess by BMI. The girls in no way looked fat or even overweight, infact many of them were active preteens. Now, the teacher herself is no stick and not even close to an athletic type. I do not think schools should not hire teachers who are, well, fat, because they can be loosing out on some great educators. But it can be really difficult to take it seriously when you are told by your "fat" teacher that you are fat and need to get fit. Just as it is equually frustrating and insulting when you are told to loose weight by someone who has never had weight issues or is a size 2. Our HomeEc teacher was very overweight, but also shared her story about abusing diet pills to stay thin as a teen/young adult and how those mess up her system so bad that she has a difficult time loosing even 5 lbs and lost all chance to conceive/carry a chid.

What ever happened to encouraging our children to take pride in themselves and what they can do? Instead they learn to compare themselves against everyone and everything..."I didn't get an A, but Sue did." and "Jenny is 10 lbs thinner than I am, so I need to loose 15 lbs." What about..."David, you tried your best and got a B, Good job!" or "Kathy, congratulations on scoring 2 goals in the soccer game last weekend."

OK, off my soapbox...my child wants a popsicle and I am letting her have one!

 

[dizmom2]

Just out of curiosity, for those whose school's have started this program, is there an option to opt out? For example, I know in our district parents have the choice to opt their children out of sex ed. Seeing as this is also a health related topic, I wonder if the same option would be available.

I think if I was not ok with the system (and I wouldn't be if it was a "line them up and record the data" type thing) I would send a polite but firm note stating that I don't wish my child to participate and that her nutrition and weight management are being monitored by her pediatrician. At least the school would know that someone is paying attention to that aspect of my daughter's health, and that I just don't need the school system's involvement.

As for filling out the form, would it be allowable to have the doctor write something such as "appropriate" or "parents have been advised of number and given relevant info", something that would indicate that you are aware of any issues but keep the actual number private?

This is a really interesting topic... the different sides have both made good points. One more thing I think is a real problem with self-esteem and obesity is media images. I don't think I would mind seeing the school bring that topic into health education - how models/actors look the way they do, different cultural standards of beauty, genetics vs. lifestyle in determining body sizes, etc. And the conflicts! Here are all the size 0-2 models, and then a commercial for fast food or some kind of nasty additive filled snack. We don't let our girls watch a lot of tv that promotes sexualizing younger kids or encouraging them to look older or be more conscious of looks, and in spite of that my 7 year old has made comments about not wanting to "get fat" or "have a big round belly." It's so frustrating... I wish it was easier to instill self-esteem in girls these days and not have them tie it all to the physical appearances.