What do you think about picking teams in gym class?

[sam_gordon]

Team sports are not a bad thing in general. But I don’t think any are really good for fitness. I mean a kid isn’t going to lose weight or get fit playing baseball unless it gives them intiative to do other workouts to get in shape FOR baseball.

Basketball, volleyball, soccer, water polo (depending on the school obviously) I would think would all help someone GET in shape. Baseball & softball would help people maintain their fitness.

 

[Klayfish]

Soccer I agree with, football not so much.

Football requires some of the players to be big. And some of these guys aren’t just naturally big. It tends to encourage them to gain weight. They rarely run enough at one time to actually do anything fitness wise. Both of mine played football. The best exercise they honestly got was running on the track after practice because they wanted to for theirbother sports—soccer and baseball.

I have seen so many out of shape kids be encouraged to join a sport to “lose weight” or get fit. Practice a few times a week and part of that not being active, plus a game just isn’t going to do it.

I do agree that practice a few times per week (though around here football is 4-5 days per week for 2+ hours each) and a game alone isn't going to make an obese child fit. That would be true with any sport. The nutrition and exercise at home have to factor in too. I also agree football does require some kids to be big, and to gain weight. However, that's usually limited to lineman (I'm not saying I think it's healthy to encourage them to be obese). Other position players are encouraged to gain muscle, not fat. Fat just slows them down and makes them less effective...."skill positions", linebackers, defensive backs.

Getting physical exercise is about more than just running. Football practice is intense, my kids come off the field exhausted and sweaty...wanna smell their pads??? They get plenty of physical activity at football. Getting and staying fit involves a lot more than just running.

There are so many sports/activities that can be great exercise, it's almost hard not to find one someone may like. Football (tackle or flag), soccer, hockey, lacrosse, swimming, track/field, baseball, weightlifting, just to name a few off the top of my head. Heck, not that too many kids do it, but even one of my hobbies of auto racing is physically demanding. Plenty of ways to get exercise and/or get your heart rate up.

 

[Wishing on a star]

It is not about opinions...
I am still looking for any real and true factual justifications that give a strong basis for having middle school or high school kids pick teams in a regular and mandated PE class.
Not seeing that here.

And, hey, guess what.... I have just as much of a right to voice my opinion as anyone else.
Even if some do not seem to agree.
It always helps if opinions have some kind of basis in fact.

Anyhow... I am out for the day now.
Carry on!!!!!

 

[Klayfish]

It is not about opinions...
I am still looking for any real and true factual justifications that give a strong basis for having middle school or high school kids pick teams in a regular and mandated PE class.
Not seeing that here.

And, hey, guess what.... I have just as much of a right to voice my opinion as anyone else.
Even if some do not seem to agree.
It always helps if opinions have some kind of basis in fact.

Anyhow... I am out for the day now.
Carry on!!!!!

Agreed on all counts. Of course you have a right to your opinion. However, you seem quite upset at those who don't agree. Where are your "facts" to back up your opinion? Not sure this topic would have a lot of hard "facts" as it's not really a black and white thing. Maybe I'm wrong.

We shall carry on, thanks.

 

[sam_gordon]

I have a lot still to do around here, so. I am outa-here.
You guys can continue to attempt to justify.

Anyhow... I am out for the day now.
Carry on!!!!!

So why do you feel the need to tell us you're done posting for the day? And why do you feel the need to tell us we can continue our discussion without you? Do we need to wait for you to return before we can comment on your posts?

As to opinions... it IS about opinions. MY opinion is having kids pick teams is not the end of the world as some make it out to be. Are kids upset because they're picked last? Undeniably. But if that's all they get upset about during their school career, I'd say that's not bad.

 

[Hikergirl]

It is not about opinions...
I am still looking for any real and true factual justifications that give a strong basis for having middle school or high school kids pick teams in a regular and mandated PE class.
Not seeing that here.

And, hey, guess what.... I have just as much of a right to voice my opinion as anyone else.
Even if some do not seem to agree.
It always helps if opinions have some kind of basis in fact.

Anyhow... I am out for the day now.
Carry on!!!!!

That is probably because this is a group of regular people sharing their opinions on the subject.
If you want real and factual data I suppose you can use Google and research all the studies done on the subject and you may get what you want.
Somehow though I think it's really more about you just wanting to share your opinion than really caring what any data tells you.

 

[Allison]

Soccer I agree with, football not so much.

Football requires some of the players to be big. And some of these guys aren’t just naturally big. It tends to encourage them to gain weight. They rarely run enough at one time to actually do anything fitness wise. Both of mine played football. The best exercise they honestly got was running on the track after practice because they wanted to for theirbother sports—soccer and baseball.

I have seen so many out of shape kids be encouraged to join a sport to “lose weight” or get fit. Practice a few times a week and part of that not being active, plus a game just isn’t going to do it.

Maybe our football team was different. Those kids were getting in shape and working out for a couple of hours a day all week.

 

[Allison]

So why do you feel the need to tell us you're done posting for the day? And why do you feel the need to tell us we can continue our discussion without you? Do we need to wait for you to return before we can comment on your posts?

As to opinions... it IS about opinions. MY opinion is having kids pick teams is not the end of the world as some make it out to be. Are kids upset because they're picked last? Undeniably. But if that's all they get upset about during their school career, I'd say that's not bad.

I agree with you and I have experience being picked at the end.

 

[luvsJack]

Maybe our football team was different. Those kids were getting in shape and working out for a couple of hours a day all week.

Were there no big guys on the team? DS was the quarterback and was in shape. But more on account of HIS wanting to be in shape. Now, they did lift weights and such but no real cardio. and the guys that started football thinking they would lose weight, it didn't happen.

Like the pp said, flag football like would actually be played in PE is better for teaching kids to be active.

 

[Klayfish]

Were there no big guys on the team? DS was the quarterback and was in shape. But more on account of HIS wanting to be in shape. Now, they did lift weights and such but no real cardio. and the guys that started football thinking they would lose weight, it didn't happen.

Like the pp said, flag football like would actually be played in PE is better for teaching kids to be active.

Fitness is not about a number on a scale or just cardio (i.e. running). There's a lot more to it. Lifting weights in many ways is better for health than straight cardio. Either way, nutrition is even more important.

 

[Allison]

Were there no big guys on the team?

Sure. That doesn't mean they weren't fit or weren't doing cardio.

I'm just glad to see students involved in any activity. It's good to be involved, it's good to be active, it's good to be interacting with other people, it's good to learn to work with a team.

 

[luvsJack]

Fitness is not about a number on a scale or just cardio (i.e. running). There's a lot more to it. Lifting weights in many ways is better for health than straight cardio. Either way, nutrition is even more important.

Do you know how many former football players have heart problems? How many have died from heart attacks, some even on the field? Coaches teach them to "eat carbs" not about nutrition. And no fitness is not a number on a scale but having that extra weight isn't good for your heart. And fitness isn't just lifting weights either. That was my point.

 

[luvsJack]

Sure. That doesn't mean they weren't fit or weren't doing cardio.

I'm just glad to see students involved in any activity. It's good to be involved, it's good to be active, it's good to be interacting with other people, it's good to learn to work with a team.

It is good to be involved and it is good to be active. I am not putting down football. My sons learned a lot from playing football, baseball and soccer. But if you take that obese kid in 8th grade and stick him on a football team, there is almost no chance that its going to change anything. Give him a 3 time a week PE class that actually has him moving and being active, it can help.

but back to PE:

If the PE teacher decides "today we choose teams and play basketball (just to get off the football)" and the kid is standing there and not picked and then they argue over who "has" to take him, there he stands feeling like he can't get any lower than that moment. Then somebody takes him and they begin to play. Guess where that kid is going to be? In about 10 seconds he is going to be on the bench or in the bleachers. What has that done for him? Nothing. Teach a class by doing something everyone does at the same time and everyone is involved and you have active kids.

 

[Klayfish]

Do you know how many former football players have heart problems? How many have died from heart attacks, some even on the field? Coaches teach them to "eat carbs" not about nutrition. And no fitness is not a number on a scale but having that extra weight isn't good for your heart. And fitness isn't just lifting weights either. That was my point.

It is good to be involved and it is good to be active. I am not putting down football. My sons learned a lot from playing football, baseball and soccer. But if you take that obese kid in 8th grade and stick him on a football team, there is almost no chance that its going to change anything. Give him a 3 time a week PE class that actually has him moving and being active, it can help.

but back to PE:

If the PE teacher decides "today we choose teams and play basketball (just to get off the football)" and the kid is standing there and not picked and then they argue over who "has" to take him, there he stands feeling like he can't get any lower than that moment. Then somebody takes him and they begin to play. Guess where that kid is going to be? In about 10 seconds he is going to be on the bench or in the bleachers. What has that done for him? Nothing. Teach a class by doing something everyone does at the same time and everyone is involved and you have active kids.

You're focusing on just lineman. I'd fully agree that o-line and d-line are encouraged to have unhealthy habits. Yes, there have been football players who have died of heart attacks. Often, they are lineman and it's often the result of heat exhaustion and/or a previously un-diagnosed heart condition. The rest of the position players don't follow those patterns. They're encouraged to be as physically fit as they can be. With lineman aside, you won't find overweight, out of shape football players...at least not at any level of success. The argument about putting an obese 8th grader on football vs PE is likely to be true, but not because of any physical activity matter. It's because guess where that obese kid is going to be put on the football team? The o or d line, which we both agree does encourage poor health habits. However, if the coach were to say (which sadly doesn't happen enough), "hey kid, you can be a linebacker or running back", I'd bet that kid gets in better shape than if he had done PE.

On the PE topic, I suppose that you're technically accurate that if everyone were forced to do 45 minutes of jumping jacks, push ups and air squats you would have active kids. Though I'd suspect the same kid who is picked last is also going to be the one who doesn't want to do those activities anyway. I know that at my kids school, it's actually a bit of a mix. It's not all "pick 'em" games and it's not all jumping jacks (for example). It's both. I'm good with that.

 

[luvsJack]

You're focusing on just lineman. I'd fully agree that o-line and d-line are encouraged to have unhealthy habits. Yes, there have been football players who have died of heart attacks. Often, they are lineman and it's often the result of heat exhaustion and/or a previously un-diagnosed heart condition. The rest of the position players don't follow those patterns. They're encouraged to be as physically fit as they can be. With lineman aside, you won't find overweight, out of shape football players...at least not at any level of success. The argument about putting an obese 8th grader on football vs PE is likely to be true, but not because of any physical activity matter. It's because guess where that obese kid is going to be put on the football team? The o or d line, which we both agree does encourage poor health habits. However, if the coach were to say (which sadly doesn't happen enough), "hey kid, you can be a linebacker or running back", I'd bet that kid gets in better shape than if he had done PE.

On the PE topic, I suppose that you're technically accurate that if everyone were forced to do 45 minutes of jumping jacks, push ups and air squats you would have active kids. Though I'd suspect the same kid who is picked last is also going to be the one who doesn't want to do those activities anyway. I know that at my kids school, it's actually a bit of a mix. It's not all "pick 'em" games and it's not all jumping jacks (for example). It's both. I'm good with that.

Ok, now we are on the same page! Yeah, they are the ones I was talking about. ODS's center was massive in junior high! I am not sure if he played later.

No, I don't mean jumping jacks. There are so many fun activities to do with kids to get them active. I do it with my grandchildren. We do all kinds of things that are just active play without it being competitive and no "teams". My hs PE teacher did it too except for the flag football and deck tennis. Trampolines, line dancing, hula hoops, jump ropes etc.

 

[sam_gordon]

If the PE teacher decides "today we choose teams and play basketball (just to get off the football)" and the kid is standing there and not picked and then they argue over who "has" to take him, there he stands feeling like he can't get any lower than that moment. Then somebody takes him and they begin to play. Guess where that kid is going to be? In about 10 seconds he is going to be on the bench or in the bleachers. What has that done for him? Nothing. Teach a class by doing something everyone does at the same time and everyone is involved and you have active kids.

Well, first, assuming there are two teams and 31 (making up a number) kids, then number 31 goes to team number 1. I don't ever remember an argument over who "has" to take someone.

Second, even if the coach picked teams, the poor player will start on the bench (if they have enough players) regardless. Presumably, the coach is keeping time somehow and after five or ten minutes calls for the subs to come on.

I would have HATED line dancing, hula hoops, and jump ropes, much less doing them every day for the whole time. Again, spend a week teaching a sports rules and basic skills, then let them play. And I was (and am) FAR from "athletic". I do remember a number of times being one of the last 2-3 picked for a team. Guess what? It didn't scar me for life. I didn't "hate" the captains or be embarrassed because I was picked last. Everyone knew who was athletic (or popular) and who wasn't.

 

[mummabear]

That isn't true. When the class spelling bee is going on everyone stands in front of the class and it is pretty obvious who is a good and bad speller. When it is your turn to go up to the board and do a math problem or diagram a sentence everyone knows who has the mathematics ability of an Enron executive or thinks car is a verb. When the teacher pics you to answer a question (that you didn't raise your hand for) and you make a fool out of yourself it is obvious. School is a social setting and all of the social awkwardness that comes with being social comes with school

Exactly, and the chance for some of these kids that are struggling and embarrassed in these areas to excel in public in PE is important too.

Reminds me of the old saying, "Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, teach gym."

Wow, way to attack an entire profession.

This is a form of public humiliation, and is mainly a popularity contest.

Sorry to say, so is life, that's why as adults relationships and networking are so important.

I really don't think that eliminating this ONE tradition is going to turn kids into self-indulgent wimps.

Yeah but it is the ongoing movement, these things are all just ine by one but as a while they make a huge difference in the resilience we instill in our children.

I remember the kids like me (who were also picked last) were the nobodies - the ones who sat alone at lunch, had no one to work with in class groups, basically had few friends overall, if any. Looking back, these kids tended to have absent or naive or borderline neglectful parents. You never heard of their parents coming to their rescue. That's the whole point - no one helped them, not even their own parents, so these kids usually didn't change much or improve. Whatever characteristic made them unpopular stayed with them. They stayed the unlikeable nobodies that no one wanted to be around. For year after year. And being picked last in gym showed that to the world.

But sitting alone at lunch didnt. Stop blaming PE classes.for what are clearly wider issues for these kids.

No, it's not different. Some people stink at reading out loud, some stink at public speaking, some kids can do the math but can't do it at the board etc, etc, etc.

And like all those things, it is possible to improve your weak areas. You may never be the best but you can always get better with practice.

Exactly, there are all sorts of things that will cause anxiety and embarrassment to kids in school, others will love it because they do well at that particular activity.

The only time my kids have played a sport that didn't keep score was in T-ball. After the first year or two, score was kept. They have many, many years of competition ahead of them (and disappointing losses); I see no problem not keeping score for 4 and 5 year olds.

And if you think those 4-5 years olds arent keeping score then you dont know anything...

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I guess I'm in the minority. I was always picked last. It actually made it easier (IMO), because I had no skills that I had to live up to. I could just play to the best of my ability, and not have to stress about "hope I get that runner in" or some other thing. Maybe it made others play "better", who knows?

 

[luvsJack]

Exactly, and the chance for some of these kids that are struggling and embarrassed in these areas to excel in public in PE is important too.



Wow, way to attack an entire profession.


Sorry to say, so is life, that's why as adults relationships and networking are so important.



Yeah but it is the ongoing movement, these things are all just ine by one but as a while they make a huge difference in the resilience we instill in our children.



But sitting alone at lunch didnt. Stop blaming PE classes.for what are clearly wider issues for these kids.



Exactly, there are all sorts of things that will cause anxiety and embarrassment to kids in school, others will love it because they do well at that particular activity.



And if you think those 4-5 years olds arent keeping score then you dont know anything...

Lol. Depends on the kid. Ods knew exactly what the score was, YDS didn’t care enough to keep up. When they played, there were 3 outs. Now with dgd’s league, everyone bats and everyone rounds the bases, so there is literally no score to be kept.

 

[luvsJack]

Well, first, assuming there are two teams and 31 (making up a number) kids, then number 31 goes to team number 1. I don't ever remember an argument over who "has" to take someone.

Second, even if the coach picked teams, the poor player will start on the bench (if they have enough players) regardless. Presumably, the coach is keeping time somehow and after five or ten minutes calls for the subs to come on.

I would have HATED line dancing, hula hoops, and jump ropes, much less doing them every day for the whole time. Again, spend a week teaching a sports rules and basic skills, then let them play. And I was (and am) FAR from "athletic". I do remember a number of times being one of the last 2-3 picked for a team. Guess what? It didn't scar me for life. I didn't "hate" the captains or be embarrassed because I was picked last. Everyone knew who was athletic (or popular) and who wasn't.

That was you. Not every kid would relate the same thing.

Other kids HATE team sports. Why should they have to do something they hate and those like you don’t? A mixture of the two could solve that. Kids need to learn how to be active when they don’t have a group.