What do you mean " WE " Paleface ?

[meandtheguys2]

Pokie, you do an excellent job stating your point calmly and respectfully. It truly impresses me when someone can do that when some are being less than respectful.

Michelle

 

[Robinrs]

Calling myself an African American does not distance anything...it brings me closer to who I am.

For years we we told to distance ourselves from our forefathers, we were beaten to make sure of it. Studying the African culture made me more aware of why I am and who I am. Nothing can take that away from me.

I will never distance my life or my family from my culture, as no "American" should. We are ALL from somewhere else except the Native Americans. If my son moved from America and raised his children for generations in Sweden I hope they STILL acknowledge the fact that they are Americans. Time should not diminish that.

BTW many Africans do not recognize us as a part of their culture. Fine and dandy for them, as long as I do that's all that matters.

 

[poohandwendy]

We are the only peoples required to prove who we are in this country

I am curious about this...when does the govt require this?

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by pokiemomo181
I am Native American and proud of it, as should African Americans or any other prefix you put in front of it. My ancestors were here long before any other group arrived. I still am as American as the ones who only use American are. I love this land as the ones who came before me did. What difference does it make how WE address ourselves, and why should we leave here because we do address ourselves as _______ American. Thats like me saying my people were here first, you leave. Its really silly.


Pokie

Before I post a disagreement to you, I want to say that you've handled yourself quite well here!

My disagreement is more of a technicality. Native Americans, in the strictest sense, are not native. There are no people native to the Americas. The Americas were empty for quite some time. The first immigrants came over the Bering Strait and spread out over the land. Had there been a population already here, Native Americans would have originally been called Siberian Americans or some such title.

That's not meant to denigrate you at all, just pointing out the finer points of ancestry.

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by dawgfan
Truth---In the last 100 years, list a few good things that talking (detante) rather than war has accomplished (be specific and the achievements must be real and long lasting). But, in the same light list a few good things that war has done. Be fair. I'll wager that war has actually done more good than bad as sad as I am to say that. You see, I am a soldier or used to be one. Soldiers understand more than anyone else the value of peace. We prize peace more than anything on earth, but we understand the necessity at times of military engagements and solutions. War is an aboration to you it seems. To some it is a tool. To some it is an inevitible situation that has a determinate end with substantial consequences for someone. War has many victims and that plays out on many different levels. In the end you can only hope that mankind is served to some degree by the completion of the hostility. Seeking to justify the hostility, when one is at the crux of anti establishment philosophy, is foolhardy. Any established rule or policy by the current administration is fuel for your disgruntlement. This seems obvious by the tone of your posts here on the CB. You hate Bush and everything he does, says, or proposes. That is fine. Vote for someone else. Let us vote for anyone we please. The rants about F 911 are tiresome. You believe Michael Moore. Good for you. Pay him and see the movie a few more times. Don't tell us what he is saying in the movie or what Bush really did that day (one day out of our lives and one day in the Bush administration). Let us make up our own minds. Michael Moore, and therefore seemingly you, want to boil the Bush administration into one 20 to 30 minute piece of time. During this time you wish to say he did a bad job as president because he did not seem to grasp what was going on or was not concerned enough. This basically boils down to your interpretation of his demeanor on film that day during an editted 15 to 20 minute piece. I have been attached to the Secret Service. I know what the duty is like. I know what that experience is like. You cannot gauge someones true feelings or thoughts by a facial expression in a time of crisis. Bush handled himself well enough. As for your latest rant "paleface" we includes you whether you like it or not. I was no fan of Bill Clinton but he did a great many things that included "we" . Americans are a "melting pot society".

:clap:

 

[treesinger]

I think one major point is that hyphenated Americans make it, by nature of the name they choose, a more "special" name. And, as an American myself, I feel that simply being American is the most special name to be designated in the world. To choose a hyphen name, in this case, dilutes the meaning of American and how special it is that we are in the greatest country in the world.

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by MJames41
So, where did you stand before we went to war? Were you for killing people by going to war or for killing people by allowing Hussien to remain in power? There is no other choice.

 

[meandtheguys2]

But we wouldn't be the melting pot we are without all of those _____-'s. I am proud to a bit of vairous nationalities, including native american (Pocahontas), english, and irish. I think it embellishes us to be reminded that we are a melting pot rather than watering us down.

 

[Robinrs]

Originally posted by treesinger
I think one major point is that hyphenated Americans make it, by nature of the name they choose, a more "special" name. And, as an American myself, I feel that simply being American is the most special name to be designated in the world. To choose a hyphen name, in this case, dilutes the meaning of American and how special it is that we are in the greatest country in the world.

That's what YOU feel, I respect that. Why not allow those who choose to "hyphenate" feel what they feel without being told we're diluting or trying to make ourselves "special". Maybe we don't feel the comfy coziness you feel, can you at least try to understand THAT?

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by Robinrs
Calling myself an African American does not distance anything...it brings me closer to who I am.

For years we we told to distance ourselves from our forefathers, we were beaten to make sure of it. Studying the African culture made me more aware of why I am and who I am. Nothing can take that away from me.

I will never distance my life or my family from my culture, as no "American" should. We are ALL from somewhere else except the Native Americans. If my son moved from America and raised his children for generations in Sweden I hope they STILL acknowledge the fact that they are Americans. Time should not diminish that.

BTW many Africans do not recognize us as a part of their culture. Fine and dandy for them, as long as I do that's all that matters.

A couple points...
If your son moved to Sweden, he'd be an American-Swede, per the fact that he emigrated in his lifetime. His children, should he remain there, we'd be Swedish, not American-Swede, because they were born there. That doesn't mean that they will magically FORGET that they have ancestors from Ameerica.

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by meandtheguys2
But we wouldn't be the melting pot we are without all of those _____-'s. I am proud to a bit of vairous nationalities, including native american (Pocahontas), english, and irish. I think it embellishes us to be reminded that we are a melting pot rather than watering us down.

Of course, I see Americans as more divided than ever. The melting pot is more oil and water than it is goulash nowadays.

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by Robinrs
That's what YOU feel, I respect that. Why not allow those who choose to "hyphenate" feel what they feel without being told we're diluting or trying to make ourselves "special". Maybe we don't feel the comfy coziness you feel, can you at least try to understand THAT? [/B]

May I ask why you don't feel the comfy coziness?

(honest question)

 

[meandtheguys2]

Originally posted by treesinger
Of course, I see Americans as more divided than ever. The melting pot is more oil and water than it is goulash nowadays.

I agree with that. I just think that what people call themselves has MUCH less to do with the problems here than economics, politics and power. Names are just an easy target, IMO.\

eta: Just look at the awesome festivals around...irish...italian...polish, all of the folks are proud of their heritage both in their old-countries (or the countries of their families) and in this country.

 

[RachelEllen]

Originally posted by treesinger
Before I post a disagreement to you, I want to say that you've handled yourself quite well here!

My disagreement is more of a technicality. Native Americans, in the strictest sense, are not native. There are no people native to the Americas. The Americas were empty for quite some time. The first immigrants came over the Bering Strait and spread out over the land. Had there been a population already here, Native Americans would have originally been called Siberian Americans or some such title.

That's not meant to denigrate you at all, just pointing out the finer points of ancestry.

I think the subdiscussion in this thread is very interesting, so I hope you don't mind if I jump in. As someone not connected enough to anything else to hyphenate my American, I still think there is a point to 'Native American'. Yes, they came from some place (or we'd all be African Americans, right), but the key difference is that they didn't oust anyone else to live here. Whereas the next set of settlers took the land from them. So I think some sort of designation is in order, even though we might argue about Native. I've heard the term 'First People' used also. (Caveat: I'm not part of that culture at all, so I don't know if that term is common, noninsulting, etc, just pointing out that there are other terms)

Asking someone who's ancestors were here first how long until they drop the designation is somewhat disingenuous. It could also be seen as asking them how long until they just 'get over' having their country taken from them. The original insult is not from them to us, it is the other way around.

Considering the significant social problems facing Native Americans (term used, as it's the one used on this thread by the only announced member of this group) even today, I think it's only respectful to at least allow them the name they would choose. All in all, their culture is still paying a signifcant price compared to the rest of us. (And again, in an attempt to be clear, I'm not addressing net positives vs net negatives for Native Americans, only that their total cost from 'America' has certianly been higher than that paid by my ancestors.)

Rae

 

[RachelEllen]

Originally posted by meandtheguys2

eta: Just look at the awesome festivals around...irish...italian...polish, all of the folks are proud of their heritage both in their old-countries (or the countries of their families) and in this country.

So true! I spend many weekends each summer marching around with a bunch of guys in kilts playing very loud instruments. So they don't call themselves 'Scottish Americans,' they still loudly (very loudly) celebtrate their culture and ancestory. Doesn't make them any less proud to be Americans, and no one is suggesting they leave!

 

[meandtheguys2]

Originally posted by RachelEllen
So true! I spend many weekends each summer marching around with a bunch of guys in kilts playing very loud instruments. So they don't call themselves 'Scottish Americans,' they still loudly (very loudly) celebtrate their culture and ancestory. Doesn't make them any less proud to be Americans, and no one is suggesting they leave!

My husband is a Scot, and he looks damn good in a skirt! Of course there is no need to say scottish american, when you are a guy in a kilt!

btw, too cool about playing the (bagpipe) I assume! Tried it a couple of times and couldn't!

 

[Robinrs]

Originally posted by treesinger
May I ask why you don't feel the comfy coziness?

(honest question)

You ask me that and you call yourself the KING of common sense? Jason!

I can understand you, maybe you will never understand me. Maybe that's a good thing.

Have a great day, everyone. I'm out to ENJOY my day!

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Robinrs
If my son moved from America and raised his children for generations in Sweden .

What do you expect they would refer to themselves as by that time?

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by treesinger
I think one major point is that hyphenated Americans make it, by nature of the name they choose, a more "special" name. And, as an American myself, I feel that simply being American is the most special name to be designated in the world. To choose a hyphen name, in this case, dilutes the meaning of American and how special it is that we are in the greatest country in the world.

That's the point I was trying to make earlier. But you CAN have it both ways. You can proudly call yourself American and still celebrate/participate in your ancestral heritage.

If (by fat chance) offspring of mine emmigrate to another country, I would think there would become a point in time where they would consider themselves a full member of that nation/culture but hopefully they won't forget where they started out without the need to toss in several hyphens into the mix.

 

[charlie,nj]

Ha ha ha great title…ever though you called me the “P’ word…

Originally posted by Truth

As divided as America is, could anyone seriously think " we " could be used in a context where something America has done is something all of America approved of ?

YES..check it out:

The Constitution of the United States of America

WE the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to OURSELVES and OUR posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

You are a riot my man.

PS - WE are not as divided as YOU think..don't forget it is an election year..this too shall pass.