What do you do with people that cut in line to meet up with group?

[kaytieeldr]

Secondly, because of Spaceship Earth's continuously moving loader, it would actually have less of an effect than it would for an attraction that loads "one vehicle at a time."

Yup. I said negligible.

With Soarin', each movie is about 4 minutes, add two for boarding and that's six minutes. Depending on where the "cutting" takes place, you may have a chance to just be put in the other "concourse" (remember there are two theaters).

Movie is five and a half minutes, with unload/load about 7.5 minutes. So depending where one is in the line, how many people cut, and whether the cuttees are in the SB line - which remember, gets pulled from far less frequently than the FP line - those guests can be forced to wait fifteen or more minutes longer than they should have.

With Ellen (gotta love Ellen), I've never waited for that (even on Fourth of July), but if someone actually had to wait, it would only be 8 minutes because the pre-show is just shy of that.

The ride is 26 minutes; add that to the eight minute preshow and unload/load tome, and there could conceivably be an extra 40 minute wait for people already in line, if others cut for any reason.

 

[andyman8]

Yup. I said negligible.

I'm not arguing that they would not increase your wait time but only by one or two minutes, which is the case with Spaceship Earth.

Movie is five and a half minutes, with unload/load about 7.5 minutes. So depending where one is in the line, how many people cut, and whether the cuttees are in the SB line - which remember, gets pulled from far less frequently than the FP line - those guests can be forced to wait fifteen or more minutes longer than they should have.

Online videos say the movie is shy of 5 minutes (4:40), so that is just shy of 7 minutes, but remember there are TWO theaters increasing ride efficiency. It cuts the seven minutes in half when both theaters are operating, so that's 3.5 minutes. There's also a preshow. Again, this is an extreme situation.

The ride is 26 minutes; add that to the eight minute preshow and unload/load tome, and there could conceivably be an extra 40 minute wait for people already in line, if others cut for any reason.

But guests must only wait for the preshow to end for the next to begin loading. That's only 8 minutes. By the way, maps say "continuous shows."

See my notes above in red.

 

[20yBWDW]

I did not know this about Rapunzel. See? The folks at WDW understand the efficiency. It is simply general masses who get overly emotiona about this.

In the end, this is absolutely no different than the deli counter at the grocery store where you take a number. When I pull number 75 and they are serving number 34, I go shop the rest of the store. If I am not back in time, I get passed over. If I show up just in the nick of time, I have not cut in front of anyone else, and no one tries to physically restrain me. Because we have all bought in to the sytsem. If it helps the disbelievers to visualize this better, imagine that you pull a number at Peter Pan. You get number 854. They are boarding number 267. You can go do whatever you darn well please until it is your turn. Under this approach, no one would ever complain. The system that I am describing is simply the same approach, but without the need to kill trees and print out numbered slips. But if that is the way that best helps you understand how this works and the efficiencies involved, then think of it in those terms. Think of the person who is pushing through you in line as being number 756 to your 854. You don't knock them down at the deli, so why do so here. It seems to me as if people have this masochistic approach to rides where one has to suffer in line in order to be worty of riding. Heaven forbid one should suggest an alternative method whereby no one suffers. It is shocking to me that people complained about the Rapunzel situation. Truly astonsihing that so many would cut off their own noses to spite their faces.

My issue with people who hold a spot for much larger groups is that I have a limit to how long I am willing to wait, and if I have other plans, like dinner reservations, than I will choose whether or not to wait in a line based on how long it is and how long I can expect to be there. The number at the deli counter, like fast passes, works well. As long as I know how long my wait is, I couldn't care less who is before me and what they are doing while they are waiting. If I get into a line with ten people, and it turns out there are 80 going before me because each of those ten people is holding spots for their spouses, children, parents, and cousins, then the line is not at all what I perceived it to be.

Come up with any system you want, as long as it communicates to others how long the line really is.

 

[larryz]

I did not know this about Rapunzel. See? The folks at WDW understand the efficiency. It is simply general masses who get overly emotiona about this.

In the end, this is absolutely no different than the deli counter at the grocery store where you take a number. When I pull number 75 and they are serving number 34, I go shop the rest of the store. If I am not back in time, I get passed over. If I show up just in the nick of time, I have not cut in front of anyone else, and no one tries to physically restrain me. Because we have all bought in to the sytsem. If it helps the disbelievers to visualize this better, imagine that you pull a number at Peter Pan. You get number 854. They are boarding number 267. You can go do whatever you darn well please until it is your turn. Under this approach, no one would ever complain. The system that I am describing is simply the same approach, but without the need to kill trees and print out numbered slips. But if that is the way that best helps you understand how this works and the efficiencies involved, then think of it in those terms. Think of the person who is pushing through you in line as being number 756 to your 854. You don't knock them down at the deli, so why do so here. It seems to me as if people have this masochistic approach to rides where one has to suffer in line in order to be worty of riding. Heaven forbid one should suggest an alternative method whereby no one suffers. It is shocking to me that people complained about the Rapunzel situation. Truly astonsihing that so many would cut off their own noses to spite their faces.

Sorry, but try this variation. You have number 278. You've been waiting half an hour and your frozen foods are defrosting. They finally call number 277, and he gets up there and starts his order...

Then his brother in law sidles over and gives his order to 277, who passes that on to the clerk...

Then his sister comes in and gives her order to him, and her order gets filled...

Then his MOTHER, for cryin' out loud, walks over and gets her order filled while your ice cream is turning into soup...

And so on, and so on, etc. until his 20 or so family members and friends and mailmen and lodge brothers and Brazilian hockey fans have had their orders filled and your frozen steak is warm enough to be served as "rare."

It just isn't fair to everyone else behind you to hold a place for someone who's never even been on queue. That's it. I don't care how you try to present it, it's not fair.

Sorry, talk to the ...

 

[kaytieeldr]

larryz, thank you for being the voice of reason. Your comparison makes perfect sense - and demonstrates why line-cutting doesn't work and how negatively it can affect people further back in line who've waited their respective turns.

 

[andyman8]

larryz, thank you for being the voice of reason. Your comparison makes perfect sense - and demonstrates why line-cutting doesn't work and how negatively it can affect people further back in line who've waited their respective turns.

If you're going to make a big deal of someone "cutting" you in line on YOUR vacation, then fine, but your day is the one that ends up being ruined.

 

[Mkrop]

Even the deli example is misleading, if you take your number and are waiting and the person in front of you is only ordering a pound of cheese, your wait may not be that long, but if that ONE person is ordering enough deli meat to feed a Brazilian tour group then your wait is much much longer than you anticipated. So just like are line example, it would matter if it is just mom and child returning or if it is a bunch of teens trying to meet up with their group. If only one person is holding the spot, it could be very misleading as to how many people are in front of you.

 

[Mkrop]

If you're going to make a big deal of someone "cutting" you in line on YOUR vacation, then fine, but your day is the one that ends up being ruined.

If everyone was couterous and considerate, and followed the rules than no one would cut, and therefore no one's day would be "ruined". Why do some have to get over it, why cant those who are being rude change their ways.

 

[andyman8]

If everyone was couterous and considerate, and followed the rules than no one would cut, and therefore no one's day would be "ruined". Why do some have to get over it, why cant those who are being rude change their ways.

That's unrealistic. There will always be someone who attempts to break the rules. That's the reality of the matter, so why let it bother you.

 

[torinsmom]

It would also help if Disney would enforce their rules. We had 20-30 Brazilians cut in front of us in numerous lines in July. The leader would just wait until they got by a chain in the queue and then life it up for the group to join about halfway through the line. The CM apologized when we complained but said nothing to the leader or the members of the group. At Universal, a group did something similar and the CM told them they would be kicked out of the park if he saw them do it again(he didn't see them; my friend reported it)

 

[Deb & Bill]

They won't until Disney blesses it, because Disney is never wrong. But how many people who can't understand how this works flew to MCO on Southwest and queued up into a line according to its system? How many got out of that line to use the rest room or go to Starbuck's only to slide right back into line in their prior spot. Did anyone shout: "Cutter!"?

How many people got on that SW flight? Maybe a hundred max. How many people were in that line at Starbucks? Ten? Twenty?

Disney has already tried the wrist band thing for EMH in the evening and it hasn't been successful because people sold wristbands or traded them off to non-resort guests. So people who are not eligible for EMH are there.

How many guests ride Space Mt in a day? Several thousand. How many attractions are there at Disney that several thousand people ride each day? In no time at all, some entrepreneur would find a way to collect passes all day long and sell them to other guests so they didn't have to stand in line at all. Or they would generate their own passes to sell to guests as soon as they figured out Disney's system.

When you are in line at the Deli counter and the clerk yells "Who's next?" most customers will identify the next person in line. You can't do that at TSMM.

Your "system" is all in your head.

 

[jesswindsor]

I don't mind if a parent with a child or two needs in front of me, or even a few adults, I don't know why they weren't in line and it's none of my business. Now when a whole group of 10 or more people jump in front of me, I'm not happy about it, but I don't do anything. The worst for me is when a group chants or sings through the whole line and even on the ride.

 

[ttintagel]

No a couple people, or even a couple small groups of people, jumping the line isn't going to increase my wait my too much.

HOWEVER.

If everybody stops caring about line jumping, and nobody is ever told no or faces any obstacle to it, it becomes the new normal. Then, it's not just a couple of people or a couple of small groups.

 

[20yBWDW]

No a couple people, or even a couple small groups of people, jumping the line isn't going to increase my wait my too much.

HOWEVER.

If everybody stops caring about line jumping, and nobody is ever told no or faces any obstacle to it, it becomes the new normal. Then, it's not just a couple of people or a couple of small groups.

There is a lot of truth to this. There are a lot of people who refrain from line jumping only because they do not want to stir up conflict. If it becomes the new norm to just smile and step aside for people who want to line jump, then not only will those people continue to do it, but others who witness it will start doing it as well, and it will become a very real problem.

Of course, when these things happen to occur to me for real (as opposed to when I am discussing them in hypotheticals) I tend to be a bit naive and give everyone the benefit of the doubt, so I will step aside and smile and contribute to the problem.

 

[Mkrop]

That's unrealistic. There will always be someone who attempts to break the rules. That's the reality of the matter, so why let it bother you.

So we should never be concerned when someone breaks the rules without order there is chaos, why bother with lines at all then, let's just have a free for all to get to the ride. As someone posted above, if that becomes the new normal, that line cutting is ok or not called out, that is a slippery slope.

 

[meredith1]

If it is a parent with a child or two, it doesn't bother me but, most circumstances my teacher mode would kick in and I would say something unless they had asked if I would save their spot-then, that's cool.

 

[andyman8]

So we should never be concerned when someone breaks the rules without order there is chaos

No, but should someone take it upon his or herself to enforce a rather small, minimal rule that even Disney doesn't bother enforcing? In my opinion, it is not a reason for a 28 page thread nor is it anyones place to cause a problem.

 

[goodfood4ursoul]

Sorry, but try this variation. You have number 278. You've been waiting half an hour and your frozen foods are defrosting. They finally call number 277, and he gets up there and starts his order...

Then his brother in law sidles over and gives his order to 277, who passes that on to the clerk...

Then his sister comes in and gives her order to him, and her order gets filled...

Then his MOTHER, for cryin' out loud, walks over and gets her order filled while your ice cream is turning into soup...

And so on, and so on, etc. until his 20 or so family members and friends and mailmen and lodge brothers and Brazilian hockey fans have had their orders filled and your frozen steak is warm enough to be served as "rare."

It just isn't fair to everyone else behind you to hold a place for someone who's never even been on queue. That's it. I don't care how you try to present it, it's not fair.

Sorry, talk to the ...

"If you're going to make a big deal of someone "cutting" you in line on YOUR vacation, then fine, but your day is the one that ends up being ruined..."

...say the people who cut in line and want to blame it on the people doing the right thing...

There is a difference between being disgusted by reading the posts of bold line cutters-
recognizing that some of this mess is literally planned in advance
(brucerobo "... I think my family comes first...") which is distasteful at best
and displays a disturbing selfish lack of conscience at worst-

and

making a shouting scene and allowing it to ruin your day-
something that few people would do, even if they were in the 'right'.

I would not let anything ruin my day in any situation.
It's not worth getting in a state...
I think most line cutting can be discouraged by simply taking up all the space in your own width of the line and developing a sudden lack of understanding the English language or sudden deafness,
and quietly standing up to the line bullies- because that is what they are- bullies.

But all things being said, I am still a lady in the south and if I did nothing else,
I'd probably loudly chat with the offender using my very best southern manners,
"Why hello, darlin'... are you havin' a good time here in MK?
Oh, well, I see, well, of course you want to join your friends at the front, who wouldn't?
What were you doin' instead of standing in line, sugar?
Oh yes, I understand- y'all have much better things to do than stand in line behind little ole me...
well, that wouldn't have been my choice, but...
why, bless your heart, honey... just bless your little heart!
Y'all go on and have a real good time now... bless your little hearts!"

And then as they move up the line I'd have to add for good measure
"Y'all, we'll just have to look over them, some folks haven't got any home trainin'
Back in grandpa's day we'd have kept them upstairs...."

Now some of y'all have no clue, but y'all from the south know exactly what I mean...

 

[mattsdragon]

I know a lot of martial arts and am proficient with pressure points.

Just sayin'.

 

[Rip]

I know a lot of martial arts and am proficient with pressure points.

Just sayin'.

As do many people, even a jerk that wants to cut in line. You really want to chance having to get in a fight on your vacation for something so trivial?

Personally, I don't. But that's just me.