What do you consider a "comfortable" yearly salary?

[ChristmasElf]

You guys tossing around $175,000 for a comfortable salary? I mean c'mon folks. That's way more than comfortable. If you're burning through $175,000 and still can't do whatever you want, whenever you want, something is very wrong.

Not necessarily. The more you make, the more you spend. I won't say what our yearly income is, but we pay property taxes on 4 properties, college tuition for 3 kiddos currently, car payments, insurance, investments, a never ending grocery bill, dining out, entertainment, travel, the list goes on.

 

[tvguy]

That pretty much sums up what I've heard about buying them. To be avoided. Curious how it's worked out for the guy that bought some.

At least Hertz only resells the good cars, and wholesales the others to the auctions. I suspect some of those end up as "Certified" used cars at new car dealers. At least in California though, the dealer has to disclose it is a former rental car.

Same has been said about ex-police cars. California Highway Patrol runs their Crown Victorias 105,000. Then the taxi cab companies snap them up and put another 300,000 miles on them. Taxi companies are scrambling since the last used Crown Vic police cars will soon be gone.

 

[sunshinemelody]

Hey sunshine,
that's the tickets. My friend (truthfully I should say more of an friend through my late husband) is a Pediatric thoracic surgeon, he decided in the end to not have any children though. Not sure how much vacation he gets, I think it maybe a lot of "dedication to the job" type of stuff.

good luck with your studies. you'll make it.

Thank you, I appreciate your answer.

I do worry that work will take up too much time to have a lot of kids or have much of a life, but whatever I do, I know that I'll have the time of my life. I just want to help people in the best way I know that I can.

 

[Christine]

At least Hertz only resells the good cars, and wholesales the others to the auctions. I suspect some of those end up as "Certified" used cars at new car dealers. At least in California though, the dealer has to disclose it is a former rental car.

Same has been said about ex-police cars. California Highway Patrol runs their Crown Victorias 105,000. Then the taxi cab companies snap them up and put another 300,000 miles on them. Taxi companies are scrambling since the last used Crown Vic police cars will soon be gone.

I know that when I was looking at cars at CarMax and I checked the Carfax report, many of them had been previous rentals cars, so I think, at least, CarMax gets a lot of their inventory that way.

 

[tvguy]

I know that when I was looking at cars at CarMax and I checked the Carfax report, many of them had been previous rentals cars, so I think, at least, CarMax gets a lot of their inventory that way.

Yes, and lease returns. CarMax also seems to stock far more Suzuki's and Mitsubishi's that any other dealer, and those are all rental returns. Don't think too many private parties buy a new Suzuki or Misubishi. But almost all the ones I do see on the road have a CarMax sticker and license plate frame on them.

 

[bakerudall]

In Phoenix area with six kids: I would be thrilled with 65k and good company health plan. Kids can earn scholarships or work during college.

 

[Plaid Princess]

This is a really interesting topic. I'm fascinated by the range of opinions!

Personally, I'd say 90-100k between Me and DH would be the ideal (living in Southern California, for those playing at home). That's enough to tuck a bit away for retirement, basic expenses, and we spend everything else on travel. No kids for us though, and we keep our cost of living pretty low. We don't have TV or new cars, and our utilities are quite low... we're basically paying for phones, internet, and our home.

 

[damskipi13]

I'm also fascinated by the variety of numbers put up here. I move around frequently so I'll posit based on a few areas. To me, "comfortable" is defined as covering rent/mortgage/other housing costs, putting 15%+ toward retirement, eating out or going to entertainment (movies, plays, concerts) 1-2 times each week, buying new clothes (but not necessarily paying full price), driving a safe & reliable but not luxurious car, some activities for kids (but not crazy expensive ones), and taking 1-2 vacations each year...all without worrying that my income would cover these costs.

Las Vegas, NV: I think a $100K combined income would give a comfortable existence. As a single person, I lived what I considered a very comfortable existence on <$36K of spending. My only debt was the mortgage, and I took multiple trips each year, ate out 2-4 times each week, bought designer purses, etc. The rest of my income that wasn't going to taxes went to savings and retirement, so I'd guess you could put away 15% or more on less than a $50K income for a single person living alone. My brother's family makes ~$125K (family of 4) and I think they are also quite comfortable. A new vehicle of some sort every 1-1.5 years (motorcycles and a boat in addition to new cars every 3 years), a couple vacations each year, gourmet food & eating out 1-2 times each week, activities for the kids, etc. I do wish they would put more away, though.

Colorado Springs expenses were largely the same. You could probably have a slightly smaller income there because housing was a bit cheaper and there are soooo many free activities. Vegas has cheaper restaurants, though. Maybe $90K for a family of 4?

Central Coast California: I'd guess you need at least $125K as a family of 4. Maybe more. Housing is very pricey and the towns are small so a lot of people travel to the bigger cities on the weekend, which adds a lot to car costs.

Alabama: I was surprised to discover that costs are nearly identical to Las Vegas and Colorado Springs! I thought for sure Alabama would be cheaper. Some things are actually significantly more expensive, like pet care and (shockingly) fresh fruits and vegetables. Most of my friends had families of 4-6 living on ~$100K, but with varying levels of comfort based on their individual priorities.

 

[Colleen27]

It seems to me that a lot of the responses on this thread are essentially equating "comfortable" with "rich". When I hear "comfortable" I think of a generic middle class lifestyle - homeownership but not necessarily a new or huge house, a couple of cars that will probably be kept longer than it takes to pay them off, savings for college and retirement but probably not enough to pay cash for Harvard or grad school, annual vacations but probably not a vacation home or going overseas every year, a few little extras like salon services and regular golf outings and outings to movies/museums/events. What a lot of people are talking about as comfortable on this thread is, to me, firmly into wealthy/rich - if you own four properties, you're more than comfortable even if the upkeep and property taxes do require some trade-offs in other areas of life.

 

[Colleen27]

I have to ask: Where do you live to have this viewpoint?

I live in southeast Michigan, and while I wouldn't put 175K as "whatever you want, whenever you want" (which is something I associate with serious wealth) I would put it a step beyond comfortable. Even when we had a mortgage I could keep our house running on 35K (which is, probably not coincidentally, pretty close to the median income in my community), so 175K would represent a serious amount of discretionary income. I don't buy into the "the more you make, the more you spend" mindset, though - that's a choice, not an inevitability, and it is such a ridiculous humble-brag to claim to be less than comfortable it in an average cost-of-living location on a top five percent income because after paying the mortgage on the McMansion, the car payment on the Beemer, and the property taxes on both vacation homes you still have to budget/save for next summer's trip to Europe (and FTR, I typed all of that thinking about a recent conversation with a relative, not of anyone here on the DIS).

 

[ethanwa]

This topic is really subjective. It depends..... are you single? Married? Kids? How old are your kids? How far are you from retirement? Where do you live? And define "comfortable"? It's just all personal preference really.

 

[eliza61]

I live in southeast Michigan, and while I wouldn't put 175K as "whatever you want, whenever you want" (which is something I associate with serious wealth) I would put it a step beyond comfortable. Even when we had a mortgage I could keep our house running on 35K (which is, probably not coincidentally, pretty close to the median income in my community), so 175K would represent a serious amount of discretionary income. I don't buy into the "the more you make, the more you spend" mindset, though - that's a choice, not an inevitability, and it is such a ridiculous humble-brag to claim to be less than comfortable it in an average cost-of-living location on a top five percent income because after paying the mortgage on the McMansion, the car payment on the Beemer, and the property taxes on both vacation homes you still have to budget/save for next summer's trip to Europe (and FTR, I typed all of that thinking about a recent conversation with a relative, not of anyone here on the DIS).

I don't know Colleen, some of the 'more you make the more you spend" is true.

Remember our standard of living has gone up and what we considered "middle class" back in the 70's is not the norm now. Houses have gotten bigger. "Mcmansions" didn't just pop up because builders had nothing to do, they were built because middle class America for whatever reason decided we wanted a huge kitchen.

Now like I said, I think the Dis has the distinction of trying to "out poor" each other. God forbid you say you went to disney while having a car note. Yes having a bigger house is a choice but sorry just having the "bare necessities" imo is not living, it's surviving.

could I survive in a 900 square foot home. sure I could if I had to but personally I'd like to do more than just survive. so yes, I do need more than working every day without taking a vacation to be comfortable. Could I survive on 55K yes I could. It would not be comfortable

Now yes, if you are going to compare every life style against a third world country, yes I totally agree we are rich. If you are going to compare these salaries against someone on public assistance than yes, we are rich.

Interestingly enough, I googled average middle class income and the ranges are all over the place.

 

[Colleen27]

I don't know Colleen, some of the 'more you make the more you spend" is true.

Remember our standard of living has gone up and what we considered "middle class" back in the 70's is not the norm now. Houses have gotten bigger. "Mcmansions" didn't just pop up because builders had nothing to do, they were built because middle class America for whatever reason decided we wanted a huge kitchen.

Now like I said, I think the Dis has the distinction of trying to "out poor" each other. God forbid you say you went to disney while having a car note. Yes having a bigger house is a choice but sorry just having the "bare necessities" imo is not living, it's surviving.

could I survive in a 900 square foot home. sure I could if I had to but personally I'd like to do more than just survive. so yes, I do need more than working every day without taking a vacation to be comfortable. Could I survive on 55K yes I could. It would not be comfortable

Now yes, if you are going to compare every life style against a third world country, yes I totally agree we are rich. If you are going to compare these salaries against someone on public assistance than yes, we are rich.

Interestingly enough, I googled average middle class income and the ranges are all over the place.

There's a lot of room between just having bare necessities or living in 900 sq ft and some of these definitions of comfortable (like the 4000 sq ft house or three car notes), though. I'd put comfortable somewhere in between the extremes, personally. Like I said, regular vacations but probably not vacation homes. A big enough house but maybe not a bathroom for each bedroom plus one for company to use. A nice car, but probably not a new one every 3-5 years.

I know the McMansions are there for a reason and there's no shortage of consumer demand for them, I just don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who won't consider anything else and then complains about lack of vacations or claims a far-above-average income isn't comfortable. It isn't the income that's the problem in that situation. It is the tendency to confuse the concept of comfort with the concept of luxury.

BTW, love the new ticker. You weren't kidding about counting the days!

 

[Gumbo4x4]

To me, the "more you make, more you spend" does ring at least a little true. But, more significantly the more you make, the more you spend INvoluntarily.

A higher income often comes with increased commuting costs, higher taxes, longer hours (which may end up costing you more in childcare, paying repairmen for things you would do yourself if you had time, etc).

 

[lilia78]

I'm from Rural Canada in the Prairies, here as soon as my husband started a full time job at $60,000 a year we became comfortable. We have 4 kids, 2 whom are in university. He now makes more than twice more and in our area we are doing very very well. We own our 4 bedroom, 2 bathroom house, about 2400 square feet. Taxes for our home and farm property is about $3400 a year. We have 3 vehicles for my husband and myself and have helped purchase vehicles for 3 of our 4 children. Our "newest" vehicle is a 2005 but all vehicles are kept clean, neat and in good running order. This past year we have traveled to Florida for a week and just recently to Quebec for a week. We will also be spending a week in Chicago in October.

In Canada we are very lucky not to have to pay much extra for good health insurance as most is covered. Our extra cost is through my husbands employer and costs us less than $1000 a year. Even if we hadn't purchased our house 21 years ago we could afford to buy a similar one now. Our area is very inexpensive to live in. Our highest expense would be groceries, we are about 1.5 hours away from the nearest city and many things are higher priced, for example a gallon of milk is over $6.00.

 

[Minniesgal]

For me it would be whatever salary gives me $60000 per year after all deductions.

 

[Christine]

I'm from Rural Canada in the Prairies, here as soon as my husband started a full time job at $60,000 a year we became comfortable. We have 4 kids, 2 whom are in university. He now makes more than twice more and in our area we are doing very very well. We own our 4 bedroom, 2 bathroom house, about 2400 square feet. Taxes for our home and farm property is about $3400 a year. We have 3 vehicles for my husband and myself and have helped purchase vehicles for 3 of our 4 children. Our "newest" vehicle is a 2005 but all vehicles are kept clean, neat and in good running order. This past year we have traveled to Florida for a week and just recently to Quebec for a week. We will also be spending a week in Chicago in October.

In Canada we are very lucky not to have to pay much extra for good health insurance as most is covered. Our extra cost is through my husbands employer and costs us less than $1000 a year. Even if we hadn't purchased our house 21 years ago we could afford to buy a similar one now. Our area is very inexpensive to live in. Our highest expense would be groceries, we are about 1.5 hours away from the nearest city and many things are higher priced, for example a gallon of milk is over $6.00.

This is interesting because my "stats" sound a lot like yours. Except we could NEVER do that here on $60,000 income. In fact, about $60,000 is what you would need to make a single person to be able to live on your own in a one bedroom apartment.

I make at least $175,000.

I have a 4 bedroom home, 2400 square feet. And GASP, I still have formica countertops, my original kitchen, bathrooms, etc. We have not been able to afford to upgrade in any way (House is 21 years old). Oh, I did get a new roof last year. That was some joyful spending.

I do have a car payment right now, and I have an emergency fund of about $25,000.

What I am able to do is:

Fully fund my 401K (but have not yet taken the plunge for the extra $5K per year "catch up" I am now eligible for.
Eat out once or twice a week (this is more in the form of take out. Sometimes I do eat at a Carrabas/Firebirds/PF Chang's level place.
Both my husband and I are members of our Park Authority's gym.
I have paid outright for two kids to go to college (one took 5 years) and the other is on his way to 5.5 years due to a major change mid-stream.
I pay for a cellphone plan for 5 phones (my parents are on it) but they and my daughter pay me for some.
I have a pretty hefty cable bill because I like my premium channels but I hate what I pay.
My car insurance bill is pretty high with two, under-25 drivers. (one pays me though)
Property taxes are only about $5,000 a year.
I carpool and don't have to pay for parking so my commuting is not high.
I never do anything like Starbucks and I rarely go out for lunch because I'm so busy at work I sometimes can't get away for the hour it would take.

I really don't know why I don't feel like I am rolling it. I sort of feel comfortable in that I can go out and buy *minor* things without thinking/worrying about it. Things like clothes, gadgets, etc. But taking a bigger family vacation gives me pause. See my ticker--haven't been anywhere since 2012. I want to go to Europe with my family but I feel like I can't.

Anyway, I'd say my biggest drain has been the college costs. I might feel really good if I didn't have to pay that.

 

[mnrose]

Yes, college costs are a BIG factor in how rich you feel. It's amazing how much they *say* you can afford to pay (in my case) for two kids in college simultaneously. Stunning really. According to every calculator I have run (and it's a bunch), I am able to "afford" up to 65,000 per year, per child. No kidding. What a joke. The only way I can do that is if I liquidate my rental properties...which provide the income my family lives on (you know, buys groceries and pays the taxes and utility bills). Ah, betwixt and between.

My kids have been flat out told they need to either get merit scholarships (if they want to attend a pricey private school) or attend a modestly priced public school (which IS in my budget). They will get $0 in "need based" aid. Of course, they are extremely fortunate in that we CAN afford a modestly priced public. I know many kids are not as fortunate. And, I guess that makes me "rich"...but I'll be a whole lot less "rich" after I pay for two college educations. LOL.

What really makes me mad about it is that we have these assets only because we scrimped and saved. We NEVER spent up to our income level, preferring instead to sock it into savings so we COULD live without working. Now, we are being punished for it. People with assets get crucified by FAFSA. Our "income" is low...as in we barely miss qualifying for free school lunches (which I would NEVER apply for since we don't need free lunches...LOL). But, we do have assets mainly in the form of rental properties. And, rental properties are the ONE form of small business asset which MUST be included within reportable assets on FAFSA. If I had a little donut shop with the same dollar of assets I would get to exclude that from FAFSA and only count the "income" generated from the assets.

Had we "spent all we made" (aside from investing in 401K, and retirement accounts) my kids would qualify for gobs of need based aid. But, because we dared to save that money, darn if we shouldn't spend it on college instead of supporting ourselves. LOL

 

[213Dittohead]

My wife and I combine for around 55, with me making the bulk of it. We survive, but 80-90 would be comfortable and allow for some savings. She enjoys her work, it's just low pay. Makes it difficult to get her to find a higher paying job.

 

[eliza61]

My wife and I combine for around 55, with me making the bulk of it. We survive, but 80-90 would be comfortable and allow for some savings. She enjoys her work, it's just low pay. Makes it difficult to get her to find a higher paying job.

And that's also another definition of "comfort". I have a job I hate. seriously. what makes me mad at myself is that I took it solely because I'm nearing retirement and my pension is based on my highest 3 years salary. so I left a position I love for this one solely for the money. Now on Sundays I'm miserable because I'm already dreading Monday's

There's a lot of room between just having bare necessities or living in 900 sq ft and some of these definitions of comfortable (like the 4000 sq ft house or three car notes), though. I'd put comfortable somewhere in between the extremes, personally. Like I said, regular vacations but probably not vacation homes. A big enough house but maybe not a bathroom for each bedroom plus one for company to use. A nice car, but probably not a new one every 3-5 years.

. It is the tendency to confuse the concept of comfort with the concept of luxury.

BTW, love the new ticker. You weren't kidding about counting the days!

Excellent point. One of the things I think we (average joe and janes) fall victim to is the "I can have it all" syndrome. I love, love, love HGTV one of my current obsessions is Bargain beachfront house hunting. I giggle a bit when the couple gives the realtor their "wants" in a house. has to be beachfront, has to have enough space for kids and a possible guest, has to have big rooms, oh and could you make that happen at about 150K.

My kids still have a hard time wrapping their little minion brains around the fact that people didn't just get into airplanes and fly every where like they do. I want to smack my youngest son every freakin Christmas because I have to fight with him to give me a date for his winter break. boyfriend thinks he can just rollout of bed and charge a ticket from Cincinnati to Philly the day of. In his world flying is not a luxury. Then when he's riding greyhound because I'm not paying 700 bucks to get his backside home he's got an attitude. lol



lol, now all I have to do is figure out what I want to be when I grow up.

To me, the "more you make, more you spend" does ring at least a little true. But, more significantly the more you make, the more you spend INvoluntarily.

A higher income often comes with increased commuting costs, higher taxes, longer hours (which may end up costing you more in childcare, paying repairmen for things you would do yourself if you had time, etc).

OY Vey, you ain't kidding there Gumbo. My entire work life I've had at least a 50 minute commute each way. Now the problem is, what I thought was easy breazy at 30, is a big NOT at 55. My eating out bill alone would drop and that's another "comfort" thing. I admit that after a 11 hour day, it became way to easy for me to just pick up take out as oppose to cooking dinner every night. So while eating out use to be a luxury for us, it's became almost a necessity when the boys started sports and after school activity. so my perception has morphed.

Those are the things also we tend to forget about.

This is sort of one area I think the old guy and I dropped the ball in regards to my sons. We taught them about money management and saving but I don't think the really saw the connection between some of the "choices" we made. I think in their little "world" lol, they got the connection of work=pay=buy a dvc. but what they didn't "see" was "ok if we buy the dvc that means no new stove, car or fridge for a few years".

I always tell the story of my sister, who retired from NYC police department and brought a real Mcmansion in upstate NY. she always wanted to be an interior designer and took that leap. what people don't see is her and my BIL made the conscious decision to not have any kids for this lifestyle. Now every once in a while some one will ask them if they have regrets and I'm sure like anyone over the age of 14, they have a few but it definitely is what you say, "comfort" comes with a lot of "uncomfortable" side consequences.