What Disney Isn't Telling You: The Hidden Cart System for Genie+, ILL, and Dining Reservations

[danikoski]

<rant>
This should not be rocket science. The fix is basically what old FP+ did. You look at the rides, and select "Rise of the Resistance". The system comes back and says "cool. I have these 3 options open - 9:00am, 12:00pm, and 2:00pm. Or push here to see other options". If you push that button, you get a full list of all the open times. You select one. When you finish paying for it, YOU GET THE ONE YOU SELECTED.

Seriously. How hard is that? This is not some trick of science or amazing leap of programming logic. Literally every eCommerce website does it by default since we invented the thing. There is no reason that should be unstable. Amazon does it every millisecond of the day with FAR MORE orders than Disney would ever see in their lifetime. If they can't write it, they can purchase pretty much any shopping cart software in existence and it can do it with minor tweaks.

Sorry, there are many things I am a Disney apologist for, but this is just not one of them. This is easy and there is no excuse for the concept of not giving you the item that you purchased. NONE. Any argument to the contrary is hereby null and void. When I go onto Amazon and select a Red polo shirt, at the end of the transaction, Amazon does not come back and say "well, I sold the other red's while you were clicking ok, but I changed it to a blue one instead even though you didn't order that". This is an EASY CONCEPT and there is no reason that giving me what I purchased should cause your system to crash. if it's that bloody fragile, your entire programming team should be fired, because this is just not even a questionable concept in any realm of any imagination.

Anyone who has read my posts knows that I make no beef about the leap of programming required for MDE as simple as it sounded. That's an example where the programming is really quite complex and I give Disney a pass on that one. But this.... no way.

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<\rant>

It shouldn't be rocket science, but I am highly suspicious of how they built this system into the app, and I highly suspect it was built into a probably archaic system or pulled parts from that system since the FP system, from what I understand, is being used for the park pass reservations. And if they built the Genie+ system on top of another system or platform, especially an older one, every time they code to add something there will be unintended consequences. And I absolutely suspect Disney tried to go cheap on the Genie+ system, and focused on the Genie tip system that sifts data thinking more people would use that service and not necessarily Genie+.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

It shouldn't be rocket science, but I am highly suspicious of how they built this system into the app, and I highly suspect it was built into a probably archaic system or pulled parts from that system since the FP system, from what I understand, is being used for the park pass reservations. And if they built the Genie+ system on top of another system or platform, especially an older one, every time they code to add something there will be unintended consequences. And I absolutely suspect Disney tried to go cheap on the Genie+ system, and focused on the Genie tip system that sifts data thinking more people would use that service and not necessarily Genie+.

Listen friend... I don't care if they built it from the original version of HAL 9000. I don't care if they took a failed copy of Skynet. I don't care if they found the original code of VIKI. That is no excuse for not giving you the product that you selected to purchase at checkout.

Sorry, but if I ordered a XL shirt on Amazon, and on checkout they swapped it out for a small, and their customer service excuse was "well, that's too bad. See we built it on top of a system that was used for pet grooming and it kinda grew too big and our IT people couldn't figure out how to find the power button..." that just doesn't work for me.

Bottom line is they need to fix it. And the fix is not "we're going to make it suck more" nor it is "we're going to have it give you shoes instead of the wrong shirt size". The ONLY acceptable fix is to give you what you purchased. If you can't do that, remove the entire thing and go back to stand by only, fire everyone involved, and hire someone competent to make something that works.

THAT is not rocket science either. It's management.

 

[danikoski]

Listen friend... I don't care if they built it from the original version of HAL 9000. I don't care if they took a failed copy of Skynet. I don't care if they found the original code of VIKI. That is no excuse for not giving you the product that you selected to purchase at checkout.

Sorry, but if I ordered a XL shirt on Amazon, and on checkout they swapped it out for a small, and their customer service excuse was "well, that's too bad. See we built it on top of a system that was used for pet grooming and it kinda grew too big and our IT people couldn't figure out how to find the power button..." that just doesn't work for me.

Bottom line is they need to fix it. And the fix is not "we're going to make it suck more" nor it is "we're going to have it give you shoes instead of the wrong shirt size". The ONLY acceptable fix is to give you what you purchased. If you can't do that, remove the entire thing and go back to stand by only, fire everyone involved, and hire someone competent to make something that works.

THAT is not rocket science either. It's management.

Oh, I totally agree with you, but knowing Disney IT I'd almost guarantee that to do what you want, they'd crash the system. My guess is they've tried already and it didn't work...so the options are the lovely blue umbrella CMs and starting to limit buying of the product. It shouldn't be this hard...but for some reason Dinsey management always makes the IT stuff hard. It's like the only constant with Disney...and that is absolutely frustrating and sad.

 

[Jrb1979]

<rant>
This should not be rocket science. The fix is basically what old FP+ did. You look at the rides, and select "Rise of the Resistance". The system comes back and says "cool. I have these 3 options open - 9:00am, 12:00pm, and 2:00pm. Or push here to see other options". If you push that button, you get a full list of all the open times. You select one. When you finish paying for it, YOU GET THE ONE YOU SELECTED.

Seriously. How hard is that? This is not some trick of science or amazing leap of programming logic. Literally every eCommerce website does it by default since we invented the thing. There is no reason that should be unstable. Amazon does it every millisecond of the day with FAR MORE orders than Disney would ever see in their lifetime. If they can't write it, they can purchase pretty much any shopping cart software in existence and it can do it with minor tweaks.

Sorry, there are many things I am a Disney apologist for, but this is just not one of them. This is easy and there is no excuse for the concept of not giving you the item that you purchased. NONE. Any argument to the contrary is hereby null and void. When I go onto Amazon and select a Red polo shirt, at the end of the transaction, Amazon does not come back and say "well, I sold the other red's while you were clicking ok, but I changed it to a blue one instead even though you didn't order that". This is an EASY CONCEPT and there is no reason that giving me what I purchased should cause your system to crash. if it's that bloody fragile, your entire programming team should be fired, because this is just not even a questionable concept in any realm of any imagination.

Anyone who has read my posts knows that I make no beef about the leap of programming required for MDE as simple as it sounded. That's an example where the programming is really quite complex and I give Disney a pass on that one. But this.... no way.

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<\rant>

I agree with a lot what you said. The issue all comes back to there is too many people who buy it every day for the system to work at its best. From things I have heard they weren't expecting this many people to buy it. Capping sales is a good start.

 

[DaviVascaino]

great info, thanks !

 

[DaviVascaino]

I actually originally posted this a couple days ago over on the r/WaltDisneyWorld subreddit and it gained considerable attention and discussion, so I wanted to share some findings with you all too.

tl;dr with Tips/Strategy at the bottom

Understandably so, Disney is rather opaque when it comes to the logistics & details of their coveted Genie+ service. The rules of the system are fairly clear, as are the rules governing Advanced Dining Reservations(ADRs) and ILL/IAS passes. Guests must play by these rules, as they're intended, to ensure fair play and enjoyment for all- or at least that's the idea. Unfortunately, because many details are left in the 'grey stuff area' (sorry, I had to), it takes an impassioned community to formulate strategies for more efficient ride planning, proper ADR structuring around limited reservation times, and guesswork as to how these things culminate together for your park day.

The reason for this thread is simple: The Genie+, ILL/IAS, and Advanced Dining Reservation systems are a frustrating experience, but there's some misinformation about them that I'd like to clear up (and also theorize a bit about too!).

Misconception: Disney "releases" more ride return times at 7:10am and periodically throughout the day. The best example of this is when park goers are speaking about how Rise of the Resistance sells out almost immediately.

Reality: This is only partly true. Disney will adjust Genie+ & ILL/IAS availability throughout the day depending on demand and that has been noted many times before. If you'd like to look at the evidence that supports this claim, thrill-data.com is a great resource. This much is true, as is people cancelling their reservation times which then returns those times back into the general 'inventory' of time slots available for the ride. It happens, but is still a small percentage of total Genie+ reservations where this occurs(plus, it can't even happen with ILL reservations because they're non-refundable.)

Here's where what I'm calling the 'invisible' or 'hidden' cart system comes into play... It's 7am on the dot and you refresh Hollywood Studios' tip board. You've already pinned Slinky Dog Dash and Rise of the Resistance to the top and morning time slots are available so you click on Slinky Dog to try for that first. You get into the checkout process and are selecting your party, go to the next screen, and your app crashes! Quickly, you restart the app, see that you didn't not complete the booking process, and go back to the Tip Board to try and get Slinky Dog except... the return time isn't until 5pm. Instead, you try for an 11am Rise of the Resistance time, go through the checkout process, AND THE SAME THING HAPPENS!! Again, you quickly restart your app, refresh the Tip Board and both are sold out by 7:05am. You are devastated and the only hope you have is to try rope dropping one of these or to continuously refresh throughout the day and pray it works out. But what if I told you that both Slinky Dog Dash and Rise are actually still just sitting in your cart waiting for you to buy them, without any rush at all?

What does this have anything to do with Advanced Dining Reservations?? Believe it or not, the Disney app and website are really just ecommerce platforms. They utilize a cart/checkout system to provide us a way to easily make purchases. Dining Reservations operate under the exact same cart system that Genie+ & ILL/IAS systems do. When you wake up early, 60 days out from your trip, you experience the exact same system in place. There are multiple time slots of 'inventory' for each restaurant- when you click on one, it gets added to your 'cart' for checkout. I want to be clear here, and it's also going to be important for a later point about guest relations, this is an entirely separate cart system from what you use to purchase Merch, Tickets, or anything else through the Disney site. That's a very clear and durable cart with persistence, this hidden cart system is NOT.

So what does this mean? It means that when you click on an ADR time slot, it gets added to an invisible cart on your account. From here you can either complete the checkout process for reservation, cancel it, or just walk away. The reason this works for guests and Disney alike is that it gives people a chance to go get their credit card, put in their personal info, and safely reserve a time slot without it being picked off by someone else who is quicker. How do I know reservations are 'held' by Disney in this way? Go add a dining reservation time to your 'cart', cancel it, and check to see if it's immediately available again OR if it's available in... 10 minutes. This test is most applicable when a restaurant doesn't have a lot of "inventory" for certain time slots. For example, most restaurants in Disney World are set up for tables of 4 so those time slots will typically stick around a bit longer and might not disappear because there are plenty of them.

What does 10 minutes have to do with anything? If you recall, I mentioned above that people believe Disney "releases" more return times at 7:10am for the most popular rides- this is not true. What is actually happening is that you are adding these ride reservations to your 'hidden cart', but if your app crashes then you have no way to get back to them! They still exist in your account for 10 minutes, but the cart is functioning as though it's inactive because you can't progress(because you can't get back to it) and therefore will return these times back into the general 'inventory'. And guess what time the majority of the inventory is returned. Yeap... 7:10am after phones & apps started to crash during the checkout process right around 7am.

How Disney rectifies this system's shortcomings on behalf of us Guests: Ever tried to get one of these rides at 7am, your app crashed, and so you went to Guest Services so that they could reinstate the passes? Yeah... they're not doing it because they want to keep you happy(although they do), they're doing it because they can see the very same cart you created and tried to checkout with. Technobabble bit: Each cart on the Disney website has a cartID. This is a common feature amongst eCommerce platforms so that retailers can keep track of each visitor's shopping stages. What Disney is actually doing here with Genie+, ILL/IAS, and ADRs is actually very simple. They provide a unique cartID to when you add a ride to your cart, track the shopping stage of it, and keep track of it's expiration time. When you go to Guest Services, they can easily look up the cartID, see what you added at what time, and can provide you with passes despite the technical problems.

What this means for you/tl;dr:

Tip #1: If you missed out on a ride at 7am, start refreshing immediately at 7:10am again. The 'expired' inventory will be released back into the available inventory over the course of the next few minutes. You could honestly keep this up and try again at 7:20 for a few minutes as well because people will still have trouble with their app crashing at the 7:10am mark.

Tip #2: If you click on a Dining Reservation time, cancel it, realize that you actually do want it, but don't see it available anymore... wait 10 minutes and refresh! You can apply the same tip above to this as well. When your 60 day mark comes around, while the dining reservation release time fluctuates, it might still help to refresh 10-20 minutes after they've been released because people do cancel.

Tip #3: Fiddle Faddle during the day. Molly from AllEars talks about how effective refreshing the Tip Board can be, but many people do not realize it's helpful in large part due to the technical problems that the app experiences.

Tip #4: If you successfully clicked on a return time, you can just go to Guest Relations, mention it to them, and they should be able to look things up to get everything righted.

regarding tip 4, how they will be able to see the cart if it has been more than 10 min?? that part I did not understand

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I agree with a lot what you said. The issue all comes back to there is too many people who buy it every day for the system to work at its best. From things I have heard they weren't expecting this many people to buy it. Capping sales is a good start.

No disagreement there. The problem is that I suspect in order to get the numbers down to where they want, they are going to have to charge north of where similar parks are. Given the outrage from the average visitor over $15, can you imagine what it would sound like if they charged $150 or more - which is where it really needs to be. I think they are in a bit of a bind with this one.

 

[Jrb1979]

No disagreement there. The problem is that I suspect in order to get the numbers down to where they want, they are going to have to charge north of where similar parks are. Given the outrage from the average visitor over $15, can you imagine what it would sound like if they charged $150 or more - which is where it really needs to be. I think they are in a bit of a bind with this one.

I have said it in other threads and it was brought up by a poster here. They went to Disney and Universal in the same week not too long ago. Guests at Universal accept waiting in line as part of going to the parks. Over at Disney the amount of complaints about long waits was a lot.

Because of FP Disney guests have this mindset that waiting in line is unacceptable.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I have said it in other threads and it was brought up by a poster here. They went to Disney and Universal in the same week not too long ago. Guests at Universal accept waiting in line as part of going to the parks. Over at Disney the amount of complaints about long waits was a lot.

Because of FP Disney guests have this mindset that waiting in line is unacceptable.

And by the same token, because FP+ used to be free, any charge seems to be unreasonable to some people, even though that same person will turn around and go to another park and shell out hundreds of dollars for a skip the line program.

 

[manakin]

I have said it in other threads and it was brought up by a poster here. They went to Disney and Universal in the same week not too long ago. Guests at Universal accept waiting in line as part of going to the parks. Over at Disney the amount of complaints about long waits was a lot.

Because of FP Disney guests have this mindset that waiting in line is unacceptable.

I think that it's because of many things.

Not only Fp used to be free, but they used ( super long time ago) to have FP only on certain attractions. When they introduced FP+, immediately almost all attractions got FP. Even attractions that were probably not supposed to have FP. That means that, from that moment, all normal lines got super crowed. (because, of course, FP line is privileged)
In short term: I, personally, was raised by disney to use FP for their E ticket rides. But suddendly, they told to people "hey, now you can jump queue also where you don't need to" (still today, the idea of a fast pass on Haunted mansion sounds silly to me). So, now, they have guests that are not used anymore to queueing like they do in other parks. They will, but they will also complain.


Being european, I can see the difference in Disneyland Paris: Fp (lithing lane now) is present in less attractions and since they added the option to pay for jumping queue, the experience is not really different from before. You know that you have to rides certain rides first, but then you can be flexible. And you don't need to pay. and, if you do, the wait in the lighting lane is incredibly short. (and this was my last experience during summer, in a super busy period).

 

[Jrb1979]

I think that it's because of many things.

Not only Fp used to be free, but they used ( super long time ago) to have FP only on certain attractions. When they introduced FP+, immediately almost all attractions got FP. Even attractions that were probably not supposed to have FP. That means that, from that moment, all normal lines got super crowed. (because, of course, FP line is privileged)
In short term: I, personally, was raised by disney to use FP for their E ticket rides. But suddendly, they told to people "hey, now you can jump queue also where you don't need to" (still today, the idea of a fast pass on Haunted mansion sounds silly to me). So, now, they have guests that are not used anymore to queueing like they do in other parks. They will, but they will also complain.


Being european, I can see the difference in Disneyland Paris: Fp (lithing lane now) is present in less attractions and since they added the option to pay for jumping queue, the experience is not really different from before. You know that you have to rides certain rides first, but then you can be flexible. And you don't need to pay. and, if you do, the wait in the lighting lane is incredibly short. (and this was my last experience during summer, in a super busy period).

I also do wonder that a lot of it is how often people visit other parks that aren't Disney?