What are "we" doing to our children in America?

The following comment has nothing to do with the people that need them...

Is it true that we wouldn't want to see triple the number of ECV's we already see in the parks?

The first time I saw one at DL I was surprised they were allowed given the packed crowd situations. This was shortly after the first ones came on the market. The things weigh a ton and can move pretty quick. They are flat out dangerous in the hands of somebody who can't control them well.
 
CathrynRose said:
***Applause***

I agree with what she said.

"Visually displeasing" - then turn your dang head. :rolleyes:


Thanks, but didn't you get your orders from Missy mouse to ignore me? :rolleyes:
 
chobie said:
Thanks, but didn't you get your orders from Missy mouse to ignore me? :rolleyes:


LOL....I was told not to bother posting on this thread anymore. ;)
 
tiggersmom2 said:
LOL....I was told not to bother posting on this thread anymore. ;)

I just had a whole post directed towards me, so I'm pretty sure I can still bother posting. However, after Jenn's post, I have nothing more to add.

I applaud you Jenn for being so honest. And for typing exactly how I feel but could never put into words. But don't be surprised when it's used against you.
 

chobie said:
Thanks, but didn't you get your orders from Missy mouse to ignore me? :rolleyes:

I dont get PM's - nor do I follow the pack, if I did.

 
FergieTCat said:
But don't be surprised when it's used against you.

They could try, but Jen would tear them a new one. If she didn't, there's plenty that have her back.
 
cardaway said:
They could try, but Jen would tear them a new one. If she didn't, there's plenty that have her back.

Do you think we can start a count down as to when the mods are going to finally lock this thing?
 
/
Crankyshank said:
I agree. I have to say the insinuation that people are fat because their loved ones enable them by telling them they look good has got to be the funniest thing I've read in a while. I don't know any overweight person, actually very few "fit" people, that don't think they have a weight problem.

I am fat. I carry it well because I am large all over and my weight is evenly distributed. I have always been a larger size but I've not always been fat. When I was just hitting puberty I was a size 7-9 and was actually a stick with a C/D cup. But because my Mother struggled with her weight her whole life and because she was horrified by the size clothes I was in (not how I looked but because of my actual dress size) I was made fun of, forced to exercise, and every morsel I put in my mouth was monitored and controlled. My siblings were allowed mac & cheese. I had salad. etc... I always had comments about how cute I would be if I were smaller. Not just from my Mother but from my Grandmother, Great Grandmother, etc... As a result I have always had an abnormal body image and no self esteem.

and let me tell you, forcing your child to lay off the sweets and work out can and will backfire unless you make it fun and interesting for them. I snuck food. I hid when I should have been out riding my bike. It wasn't hard to stash sweets at all. My Mother meant well but in all honesty she is the reason why I am fat.

And as the years went on I gained some weight. I was solid but a big girl. I was a size 14 in high school with DD breasts. I didn't look fat - I would say with my frame I would be compared to an average size 10 at that point, but I wasn't the cute petite little thing I wanted to me. I thought I was a whale. I had a knee and rotator cuff injury and had other problems that caused me to be on steroids for several months. Coupled with severe depression, emotional trauma, and the freedom of being away from my controlling mother I gained close to 100lbs my freshman year of college. It took months for me to really notice how big I was getting because I all ready thought I was huge. Kind of like how an anorexic can't tell she's so thin because she thinks she's obese when she looks at herself.

I've gained and lost about another 75lbs since then. I eat fairly well with the occasional splurge. I walk. I exercise at the gym doing weights and cardio 3 nights a week for about an hour. I have to fight for every ounce lost because of an inherited metabolic condition that was exacerbated by my weight gain on prednisone and being depressed. It's disheartening and it's depressing.

I gave that information, which is probably something no one else cares about, to show you kind of where I'm coming from. People could tell me all day long until they are blue in the face that I look good and I wouldn't believe them.
If I've learned anything from the disparaging posts on this thread is that many people have no idea what it's like to be severely overweight. I don't mean because they are thin. I mean they have no concept of what it's like to be looked at like we are and to have gone through what many of us have gone through. I know few obese people that are fat because they eat horribly and because they are lazy. It's a hell of a lot more complicated than that and it's insulting to us to assume that if we worked out more and dropped the donuts our problems would be solved.

Food is an addiction. The emotional issues that cause someone to become emotional eaters, which most obese people are, are not easy to fix. Do you think I like how i look? Do you think I like not having any photos of myself on display in my parents' house because they are embarrassed to associate themselves with me? Do you think I like the dirty horrified stares I get from people? I would sooner crawl around Disney on my hands and knees than rent an ecv and be subjected to comments that have been posted here. My self-esteem is low enough. Of course I want to be thin. Of course I aspire to be thin. Of course I'm doing more than just eating yankee doodles and wishing for the thin fairy to come visit while emailing Dr Phil and begging for a free gastric bypass.

Maybe some time spent sitting in at an overeaters anonymous group would do some people here a lot of good and might help them be a bit more sympathetic. Especially the disparaging poster that is going into nursing. With a little bit more sympathy it might actually help people like me a lot more and who knows - we could all win in the end.

This is a very touching post. I am sorry you have to go through what you're going through.

I read a really good book that you might like. It's called "Passing for Thin" by Frances Kuffel.

Whether you believe me or not, I DO empathize with obese people. I mentioned in a previous post that both my sil and bil are very obese and my sil also shares with me some of these same feelings that you have.

I also realize that food is an addiction. I know it's hard to moderate an addiction and food is a necessity that can't be completely stopped-- it has to be moderated. I understand what you are saying.

But, at the same time, when you state that food is an addiction and that many people have emotional food issues (and I already agree with this), aren't you stating that it's overeating that is causing obesity?

That's what overeater's anonymous is for-- food addiction. Not obesity related to medical problems (which I believe is not as common). I don't understand your point if this is not what you're saying.

Food addicts and overeaters are overeating. That's the cause of obesity. On one hand you are stating that it's not the cause, but then you state it is the cause (I understand that for you, prednisone was also a cause).

I think where we disagree is that you consider food addiction-- and all addictions-- a disease that you have no control over.
 
I said I am having problems losing weight because of a metabolic condition that was exacerbated by my weight gain while I was on prednisone and when I was depressed. I never said I am fat because I took prednisone.

In fact my exact words as to why I am fat is in the last sentence of paragraph 3 of that post "My Mother meant well but in all honesty she is the reason why I am fat"

I also never said that overeating doesn't cause obesity. I said it was a helluva lot more complicated than just really liking to eat and being lazy. I also never said it was something I have no control over. I said it was a lot harder than dropping the donuts and moving. I'm not sure where the confusion is with that point.

OA is to help people deal with the emotional issues that cause them to turn to food for comfort instead of dealing with the issue itself. I'm not a member by the way but have gone to meetings and am close to several members. Lots of people there are actually victims of abuse. Not people who get off on a sugar high.

I'm an emotional eater and it's my way of dealing with stress and my Mother. My friend was raped at 17 and turned to food. Instead of dealing with the rape, she turned to food. It's an emotional addiction. Not a physical one. I eat when I'm stressed but it's not a bag of chips, a package of cookies, a box of cupcakes. People assume that's what happens when people emotionally eat. I make poor food choices (stuffed shells instead of chicken. french fries instead of sweet potatoes, a piece of cheesecake, an awful awful with my sandwich) but I'm not waltzing through cold stone with a napkin and a spoon gorging myself.

there seems to be a line of thinking here on this thread that fat people like eating. That decided for themselves food is good. working out is bad. Let's just get bigger and come up with an excuse as to why we can't stop eating. While there are people out there that think that, I feel that there's a lot more to it and those people are about as rare as those who are fat purely because of medical causation.

If anything my point is that there is no easy answer for why someone becomes obese. If I wasn't emotionally abused by my mother I would have a better body image and wouldn't have turned to food to combat stress.

If I had a better body image I would have noticed that I was gaining so much weight on prednisone.

If I wasn't forced to eat only what my mother put in front of me, I would have had a better sense of nutrition from the beginning and the need to sneak reeses and cookies wouldn't have been there

If I wasn't forced to exercise I probably wouldn't have hurt my rotator cuff and my knee in the first place. Or even better - I wouldn't have been continuing to play tennis with a bad shoulder causing serious damage and needing extensive rounds of steroids.

If I had a better way to handle emotional trauma I probably would have handled my friend dying after trainspotting while on heroin my freshman year of college (while I was also on prednisone). I also wouldn't have comforted myself with food because hey I'm fat anyhow- what's more weight?

If I didn't gain weight on prednisone, which is in your system for years by the way, I wouldn't have had my metabolic problems occur in such a way that it would have taken years to diagnose.

If I didn't have my medical conditions I wouldn't be fighting so hard to lose weight. oh add depo to this as well. That caused about 40lbs of weight gain and also takes about a year to get out of your system. I would probably have a lot more willpower if I had a better self image.

I'm certainly not making excuses but my point is that it's a lot more complicated than I like to eat. I don't dispute that I do like to eat but I'd be willing to bet if I provided my food journal it would be a lot different than what the "fat people are lazy" brigade expect.
 
Crankyshank said:
I said I am having problems losing weight because of a metabolic condition that was exacerbated by my weight gain while I was on prednisone and when I was depressed. I never said I am fat because I took prednisone.

In fact my exact words as to why I am fat is in the last sentence of paragraph 3 of that post "My Mother meant well but in all honesty she is the reason why I am fat"

I also never said that overeating doesn't cause obesity. I said it was a helluva lot more complicated than just really liking to eat and being lazy. I also never said it was something I have no control over. I said it was a lot harder than dropping the donuts and moving. I'm not sure where the confusion is with that point.

OA is to help people deal with the emotional issues that cause them to turn to food for comfort instead of dealing with the issue itself. I'm not a member by the way but have gone to meetings and am close to several members. Lots of people there are actually victims of abuse. Not people who get off on a sugar high.

I'm an emotional eater and it's my way of dealing with stress and my Mother. My friend was raped at 17 and turned to food. Instead of dealing with the rape, she turned to food. It's an emotional addiction. Not a physical one. I eat when I'm stressed but it's not a bag of chips, a package of cookies, a box of cupcakes. People assume that's what happens when people emotionally eat. I make poor food choices (stuffed shells instead of chicken. french fries instead of sweet potatoes, a piece of cheesecake, an awful awful with my sandwich) but I'm not waltzing through cold stone with a napkin and a spoon gorging myself.

there seems to be a line of thinking here on this thread that fat people like eating. That decided for themselves food is good. working out is bad. Let's just get bigger and come up with an excuse as to why we can't stop eating. While there are people out there that think that, I feel that there's a lot more to it and those people are about as rare as those who are fat purely because of medical causation.

If anything my point is that there is no easy answer for why someone becomes obese. If I wasn't emotionally abused by my mother I would have a better body image and wouldn't have turned to food to combat stress.

If I had a better body image I would have noticed that I was gaining so much weight on prednisone.

If I wasn't forced to eat only what my mother put in front of me, I would have had a better sense of nutrition from the beginning and the need to sneak reeses and cookies wouldn't have been there

If I wasn't forced to exercise I probably wouldn't have hurt my rotator cuff and my knee in the first place. Or even better - I wouldn't have been continuing to play tennis with a bad shoulder causing serious damage and needing extensive rounds of steroids.

If I had a better way to handle emotional trauma I probably would have handled my friend dying after trainspotting while on heroin my freshman year of college (while I was also on prednisone). I also wouldn't have comforted myself with food because hey I'm fat anyhow- what's more weight?

If I didn't gain weight on prednisone, which is in your system for years by the way, I wouldn't have had my metabolic problems occur in such a way that it would have taken years to diagnose.

If I didn't have my medical conditions I wouldn't be fighting so hard to lose weight. oh add depo to this as well. That caused about 40lbs of weight gain and also takes about a year to get out of your system. I would probably have a lot more willpower if I had a better self image.

I'm certainly not making excuses but my point is that it's a lot more complicated than I like to eat. I don't dispute that I do like to eat but I'd be willing to bet if I provided my food journal it would be a lot different than what the "fat people are lazy" brigade expect.

Maybe your food journal would be different, maybe not.

I don't think we disagree on the reasons why people are fat, then. Even if there are extenuating circumstances, we pretty much agree that people become obese because they overeat-- nevermind or whatever the 'underlying' reasons are.

I am certain, though, that this is what TimeforMe meant when she started this thread. Maybe some can look past the ECV comments since she didn't mean anything by them. As you know, sometimes thoughts aren't expressed as clearly as one wishes.

I realize you blame your mother for your food issues/weight, even if you also realize she did her best. I think many of us have issues with our parents for one thing or another. . . some serious and some not-so-serious.

I don't think making you have salad and letting your siblings eat macaroni and cheese is the way to go, either. But, giving all of you the correct size portion (as it states on the box) and a side salad would have probably been a better option. Forcing you to work out at a young age rather than encourage you to go out and ride your bike might not have been the best choice either.

But, I think the point of this thread was to note how the rate of obesity has just grown in the United States. And, the OP is correct. It has. And, obesity-- no matter how common it is-- is not a better option than fit and healthy.

I believe we are all in charge of our lives, even if we have to deal with difficult circumstances, some of which may be out of our control. But, ultimately, what we do is our own decision. If we choose to let those past demons control our eating habits is also our own decision. But, it seems as if we have a responsibility not to pass those mistakes on to our children and to raise them in a healthy manner. From what I've seen in my kids' classmates' lunches, it doesn't seem that they are getting fat because their parents are encouraging them to eat right. It looks as if they are getting fat because they take 5 pieces of candy to school, cheetos, a fruit roll or two, a pudding, but no real fruit, no veggies, and not too much protein. These kids are eating high-carb, high-fat, high-sugar, low-protein lunches with negligable nutritional value.

And then they come home and have some chips and soda, then dinner, then another snack/dessert. These children snack all day long.

I have three children. The older two are 9 and 14. I've seen their friends' eating habits. They aren't good and they aren't healthy and they are permitted to eat this way. They have loving parents, so the only thing I can think of is it's easier and the kids seem satisfied.

". . .The childhood obesity epidemic is clearly related to the extra calories kids are consuming today during snacktime," says Barry Popkin, Ph.D., professor of nutrition at the University of North Carolina School of Public Health. Even worse, experts say, this trend spans the ages — from toddlers to teenagers.

Trouble is, these days kids aren't only snacking more often, but when they do, they also take in much bigger portions and more fattening foods and drinks. As a result, American children are consuming more calories between meals than they ever have. . .

A generation ago, says Popkin, kids got less than 20 percent of their daily calories from snacks. Today, it's about 25 percent — and rising.

And when toddlers and preschoolers snack too often — and on the wrong foods — they're setting the stage for a lifetime struggle with their weight, and their health. "The roots of childhood obesity take hold between the ages of one and five," says William Klish, M.D., a pediatric gastroenterologist at Texas Children's Hospital in Houston. . .
http://www.parenting.com/parenting/child/article/0,19840,1093871,00.html
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/childrens-health/HQ00419
http://www.chefann.com/blog/?p=293

Many times overeating starts because it's a HABIT, like what they are describing in these articles. And because it's permitted by those entrusted with the kids' care.

You know, my daughter had some exchange students at her school last year. The local newspaper asked these teenagers what they thought was different about these kids from the kids in their native countries, and what they thought was the same.

Every single teenager (I think there were five or six) said that they noticed that American kids ATE ALL THE TIME. They noticed how much snacking the kids did. How they ate midmorning, how they ate midafternoon. How they ate again before dinner and then again afterwards.
 
But you're really missing out on what has caused so many people to be upset about this thread. No one is arguing that obesity isn't a problem. I mean seriously how much better of a reason for the phrase "no **** sherlock" can you be possibly given than this subject.

Like I said initially in this thread, if the OP didn't throw in the pot stirring lazy fat people on ecv portion of the OP and if people didn't chime in about disgusting lazy fat people that need to stop eating donuts (I am generalizing so please don't bother asking for exact examples) then we wouldn't have this thread. It would have been a much better exchange of ideas.

But no this is the DIS where people are perfect parents, vote for the perfect candidate, and obesity is something that can be cured if only fat people could be told enough that they need to stop eating so much. That is the problem with this thread.
 
They could try, but Jen would tear them a new one. If she didn't, there's plenty that have her back.

Plenty of years of therapy and weight watchers and trying to figure out how I got where I was and how come I can't lose weight when I'm eating right and exercising sucks but it has helped me understand who and what I am if. I still haven't dealt with all of my demons, but it won't let me be belittled by others who have no clue what my life is like no matter how eloquently I explain myself just because it's much easier to file people into tidy little boxes in their black and white world.

I do appreciate the support from people though :) Especially since I get really tired of telling people that it's almost never as easy as eating grilled chicken and salads and joining the gym. If it were there would be a lot less fat people in this world

Oh and I want to give kudos to those who are loud and proud about their size. That I find admirable and truly wish I could emulate their attitude.
 
Kendra17 said:
I am certain, though, that this is what TimeforMe meant when she started this thread. Maybe some can look past the ECV comments since she didn't mean anything by them. As you know, sometimes thoughts aren't expressed as clearly as one wishes.
I think the OP was very clear.
TimeforMe said:
I was very saddened, however, to see how many obese families driving around in those ECVs. By no means am I a beanpole, but there's now way in heck I would ever be so lazy as to drive around in one of those things. And before anyone can flame me, I am aware that some of these people may have been legitimately handicapped. I do believe, however, by the sheer number of overweight people (kids, too) in these things that they are just too darn lazy to walk.
She has decided that most of the people in ECVs are just lazy...and it makes her "sad." Well, cheer up, OP, lots of folks in ECVs are unable to walk!

What makes me sad is the idea that someone confined to a wheelchair may see disgust in other people's faces.

I'm all for supporting people who have chosen to get healthy. But starting with demeaning people who are in wheelchairs was a rotten place to start, if you ask me (which you didn't. I'm just piping up.)
 
I don't think I've missed the point. When I was on here a day or two ago, there were people who were very defensive and it seemed to have less to do with the ECV comments than it did with the fact that since obesity was rising in the US, we should shut up and accept it as the new norm. In fact, it seemed as if nobody would forgive the OP's phrasing and instead accused her of loathing and being offended by obese people despite the fact she explained herself over and over again. Further, can't one actually feel disgust at the fact that we are raising a nation of obese, unhealthy, inactive and sometimes malnourished children without feeling disgust at the children or obese adults? We can loathe the fact that obesity is at an all-time high-- at epidemic proportions-- without loathing obese people or being offended by obese people or feeling any other negative feelings that some here have ascribed certain people of feeling? I believe the answer is yes.

I do understand that if one is obese, the EVC comments may be upsetting, but I think that the original poster used that as an example without realizing how much, in fact, it would upset people as much as it did. She could have used a different example-- mentioned how kids don't play as much as they used to or something else. But, she chose that example because she just got back from Disney World and this was something obvious she noticed and chose to share.

I see that it's easy to get riled up by a comment, but it's sometimes easier to get riled up than it is to look at the issue one is presenting. JMO.
 
You might see it as that and I see it as just another valid argument pissed away because someone couldn't resist making a fat jab. Obviously I could go on until I'm blue in the face and you're not going to see why the comments on this thread were offensive and did nothing but harm what is a legitimate concern to a majority of the population.

I am all for talking about the obesity epidemic. I've had many great discussions here on this board about it. But when you toss in how unhealthy I am, how lazy I am, how I should eat, how my appearance saddens you, etc... I'm sorry but it makes me want to scream DUH while salaaming you for your astound observations that never before occured to me because seriously you lost any footing you might have held in the discussion because you went for the cheap shot. It's nothing better than skinny people's version of bible thumping imho.
 
Cool-Beans said:
I think the OP was very clear. She has decided that most of the people in ECVs are just lazy...and it makes her "sad." Well, cheer up, OP, lots of folks in ECVs are unable to walk!

What makes me sad is the idea that someone confined to a wheelchair may see disgust in other people's faces.

I'm all for supporting people who have chosen to get healthy. But starting with demeaning people who are in wheelchairs was a rotten place to start, if you ask me (which you didn't. I'm just piping up.)


Thank you for reminding us what this thread is about. Making judgments about people that you do not know.
 
I agree that this thread should not be about who is PC or not.

The reality that the OP was referring to is reflected in the latest government figures that recently came out.

2/3, yes two thirds, of americans are overweight or obese. :sad2:
Attacking the messenger for not being quite PC enough does not change this fact.

I think this thread was much more on-topic when the subject was the same as the the Title of the thread. Children and obesity.
 
Crankyshank said:
You might see it as that and I see it as just another valid argument pissed away because someone couldn't resist making a fat jab. Obviously I could go on until I'm blue in the face and you're not going to see why the comments on this thread were offensive and did nothing but harm what is a legitimate concern to a majority of the population.

I am all for talking about the obesity epidemic. I've had many great discussions here on this board about it. But when you toss in how unhealthy I am, how lazy I am, how I should eat, how my appearance saddens you, etc... I'm sorry but it makes me want to scream DUH while salaaming you for your astound observations that never before occured to me because seriously you lost any footing you might have held in the discussion because you went for the cheap shot. It's nothing better than skinny people's version of bible thumping imho.
Thank you for explaining yourself so well. I did take her original post to mean that people are not exercising as much as they need to and that they need to start. I think she was shocked at the sheer numbers of obese people and sounded off a bit vehemently because she assumed most people would agree that rising obesity is something we should be alarmed about.

I don't know the OP, but I do know that our family went to a water park a few weeks ago and my husband said almost the exact same thing. He was referring to obese children and he was clearly alarmed at this. He wasn't disgusted by the children by any means. He was alarmed that SO MANY children that young could get so heavy in such a relatively short time (some kids were 3, 4, 5). He was truly alarmed, not insulting by any means, but felt disgust towards the parents who permitted these children to become so heavy. And, in fact, that's exactly what the parents' were doing, buying their kids large size chips, sodas, soft pretzels and ice creams. When the OP posted, this is what immediately came to mind for me. I still think that's all she meant.

But, I understand your displeasure with this thread and many of the posts. I do appreciate you recognizing that obesity is not usually caused by medical problems and that medical problems are more often caused by obesity.

Good luck to you.
 
chobie said:
Thank you for reminding us what this thread is about. Making judgments about people that you do not know.

Yes - and then talkling about them, viciously.

Many of you should be quite proud. :sad2:
 
Wishing on a star said:
I agree that this thread should not be about who is PC or not.

The reality that the OP was referring to is reflected in the latest government figures that recently came out.

2/3, yes two thirds, of americans are overweight or obese. :sad2:
Attacking the messenger for not being quite PC enough does not change this fact.

I think this thread was much more on-topic when the subject was the same as the the Title of the thread. Children and obesity.

If that is what it is about, then why the comments about ECV's? Kids don't rent/aren't allowed to drive the ECV's.
 

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