What are "we" doing to our children in America?

[Cool-Beans]

I agree that this thread should not be about who is PC or not.

The reality that the OP was referring to is reflected in the latest government figures that recently came out.

2/3, yes two thirds, of americans are overweight or obese.
Attacking the messenger for not being quite PC enough does not change this fact.

I think this thread was much more on-topic when the subject was the same as the the Title of the thread. Children and obesity.

I hardly think it is being PC to say that the OP ought not to pick on people in wheelchairs!

I don't think there are any figures that say that people in wheelchairs are "just too darn lazy to walk." It isn't what the OP titled the thread, but it is the FIRST point she (he?) chose to make.

 

[TimeforMe]

I explain myself just because it's much easier to file people into tidy little boxes in their black and white world.

which is EXACTLY what you are doing! Interesting how you can see it in others, but not yourself. YOU and many others on this thread seem to know much more about what I meant (the OP) and what I intended and what my biases are than myself. How about that? Unbelievable! Keep talking in circles, Crankyshank--maybe eventually you'll convince yourself that you're actually making sense. I'm certainly not convinced.

I'm done with trying to explain myself to those who obviously want to project their own interpretations onto my own. I know what I meant and so do a few others. As far as I'm concerned, that's all that counts.

To those that are overweight I say: so am I. I don't like it and I'm working to change it. Is that so wrong? If you think so, then you're in your right to feel that way just as I am to NOT want to be overweight.

Cool-Beans: I was not "picking on people in wheelchairs" That's absolutely ridiculous and I won't even dignify that comment more than I've already done so.

And FTR, there were definitely kids (and obese ones) on these things albeit illegally, but definitely using them.

Kendra, unfortunately your efforts to intelligently clarify a few things are in vain. Thanks for trying though.

 

[Crankyshank]

How in the HELL am I putting people in black/white boxes? Hmm..?? The only thing I admonished you for doing was ruining a perfectly legitimate debate with a pot shot at people on ecvs! I made no comment on your character. In fact I took great pains to single no one in particular out! Not my fault you couldn't express yourself the way you wanted to initially. I mean really - Do you really truly think 100% that your original post should not have been phrased a little bit better to avoid this? Do you truly not see how you ruined a chance to have a legitimate discussion about an actual problem that is facing America by interjecting a point that wasn't relevant to what you claim to be the point of your OP? You wanted to talk about child obesity. Great. Leave the fat people in the ecv out of it. I think you're being way too oversensitive with all of your yeah buts and your back peddling.

What did I say that did not make sense to you? Actually I don't care because to throw your words back at you, I'm done with trying to explain myself to those who obviously want to project their own interpretations onto my own. I know what I meant and so do a few others. As far as I'm concerned, that's all that counts.

 

[Crankyshank]

Thank you for explaining yourself so well. I did take her original post to mean that people are not exercising as much as they need to and that they need to start. I think she was shocked at the sheer numbers of obese people and sounded off a bit vehemently because she assumed most people would agree that rising obesity is something we should be alarmed about.

I don't know the OP, but I do know that our family went to a water park a few weeks ago and my husband said almost the exact same thing. He was referring to obese children and he was clearly alarmed at this. He wasn't disgusted by the children by any means. He was alarmed that SO MANY children that young could get so heavy in such a relatively short time (some kids were 3, 4, 5). He was truly alarmed, not insulting by any means, but felt disgust towards the parents who permitted these children to become so heavy. And, in fact, that's exactly what the parents' were doing, buying their kids large size chips, sodas, soft pretzels and ice creams. When the OP posted, this is what immediately came to mind for me. I still think that's all she meant.

But, I understand your displeasure with this thread and many of the posts. I do appreciate you recognizing that obesity is not usually caused by medical problems and that medical problems are more often caused by obesity.

Good luck to you.

Believe me I understand that POV. That's why it's something we should talk about. I also can't believe the food people are considering to be nutritional nowadays because the media tells them so and because it's easier to give in to their child than to tell him/her no you can't have that 2nd ice cream cone. It drives me even more bonkers that good for you food is so disgustingly expensive (a leading cause of obesity amongst the poor).

It's just so hard to not get on the defensive when people don't take pains to be tactful when approaching the subject because it really is a touchy one. No matter how you look at it you're criticizing someone's life. Either you can do it in a positive constructive way which takes thought. Or you can just be uncouth and lose the war before the battle has begun. We're all guilty of it at some point with some subject. I think in the case with this thread and others like it is that instead of apologizing for being offensive when someone says they're offended (especially when there's more than one person offended) the person who made the hurtful remarks gets defensive and starts yeah butting and back peddling because they think they're being attacked. Note: The OP is not being singled out for this. I think she acted this way and there were others as well.

 

[Loves Disney]

I blame McDonalds.





Just kidding. lol.

 

[Reflection]

....It drives me even more bonkers that good for you food is so disgustingly expensive (a leading cause of obesity amongst the poor).....

I read variations of this viewpoint (i.e., healthy food = expensive) frequently in threads on this board and wonder what data folks (not specifically the poster being quoted) are seeing to reach this conclusion. In the medical and public health literature, there are limited data because there has been limited research on obesity/overweight and the economics of food choice. In my area (metro DC), a 20 ounce bag of chips can be purchased for 99 cents. One could buy an apple (or two), 3 tangerines or some other tasty but nutritious product for the same price. I don't think cost is the main driver when it comes to choice and food consumption, although it is a consideration.

 

[TimeforMe]

I think in the case with this thread and others like it is that instead of apologizing for being offensive when someone says they're offended (especially when there's more than one person offended) the person who made the hurtful remarks gets defensive and starts yeah butting and back peddling because they think they're being attacked. Note: The OP is not being singled out for this. I think she acted this way and there were others as well.

OK--I'm obviously striking a nerve with some people. I knew it would happen and I apologized in advance but people seem to not be grasping that.

The people that are reacting here are the ones that are taking something out of my post that was not my intention. If I offended you in some way, it was unintentional.

I tried to make it clear that my post wasn't meant to offend anyone.

I don't think I used any "yeah buts" except maybe in a vain effort to clarify a point. And why on earth would I "back pedal"? About what? I never changed my POV through the entire thread so there's no need to back pedal.

 

[Aidensmom]

I read variations of this viewpoint (i.e., healthy food = expensive) frequently in threads on this board and wonder what data folks (not specifically the poster being quoted) are seeing to reach this conclusion. In the medical and public health literature, there are limited data because there has been limited research on obesity/overweight and the economics of food choice. In my area (metro DC), a 20 ounce bag of chips can be purchased for 99 cents. One could buy an apple (or two), 3 tangerines or some other tasty but nutritious product for the same price. I don't think cost is the main driver when it comes to choice and food consumption, although it is a consideration.

Well, I can give you one example...most whole grain foods cannot be found for as low of a price you can find the equivalant white flour foods for, mostly because they are only produced by the more expensive brand names, you can't find store brand whole wheat hot dog buns, etc. Also, organic fruits and vegetables are more expensive than the non-organic, although if we are only talking about what is better for maintaining a healthy weight, then the non-organic would be just as good.

 

[MushyMushy]

I read variations of this viewpoint (i.e., healthy food = expensive) frequently in threads on this board and wonder what data folks (not specifically the poster being quoted) are seeing to reach this conclusion. In the medical and public health literature, there are limited data because there has been limited research on obesity/overweight and the economics of food choice. In my area (metro DC), a 20 ounce bag of chips can be purchased for 99 cents. One could buy an apple (or two), 3 tangerines or some other tasty but nutritious product for the same price. I don't think cost is the main driver when it comes to choice and food consumption, although it is a consideration.

Ground beef is way cheaper than lean chicken, fish, or lean beef. You can pick up a box of Kraft Mac & Cheese for 50 cents, or a store brand for 30 cents. Fruit is pretty expensive -- apples at $1.50 a pound (that's what, 3 apples?), oranges at $8 for 3 pound bags, grapes are $3something a pound. You can choose a loaf of white store brand bread for 89 cents, or a good whole grain bread for over $3.

This is just empirical evidence from living in a very low socioeconomic small town, but you can generally guarantee that a good majority of welfare recipients are overweight. They have to stretch their food stamps, and money only goes so far when trying to feed a family of four. We've had our lean years, and the quality of food we ate was pretty low.

 

[Reflection]

Well, I can give you one example...most whole grain foods cannot be found for as low of a price you can find the equivalant white flour foods for, mostly because they are only produced by the more expensive brand names, you can't find store brand whole wheat hot dog buns, etc. Also, organic fruits and vegetables are more expensive than the non-organic, although if we are only talking about what is better for maintaining a healthy weight, then the non-organic would be just as good.

I'm referring to foods that are better for maintaining healthy weight, although I buy organic products, particularly dairy and meat because I think the health benefits balance out the cost. Plain, quick-cooking oatmeal, for example, is much less expensive that flavored-lots of sugar-instant

For specific products, I agree location can be a factor. I think Safeways in my area have store-brand whole wheat hot dog and hamburger buns, although I buy these items at Trader Joes--cost $1.69, which is quite less than the brand name equivalent (Arnolds, Orowheat, etc.) in the grocery store.

 

[Crankyshank]

Reflection, to answer your question about the cost of food. I understand what you're trying to say and I do agree with your point. I really wasn't factoring in junk food like soda and chips and cookies in my post.

I'm saying as a health conscious consumer with a tight budget, healthier products are more expensive. Aidensmom and Mushy have given some excellent examples. I was just at the store and I can tell you skim milk is more expensive than fat included milk. Soy milk is even more expensive. chicken and pork and turkey are a lot more expensive than fatty cuts of red meat. fresh Produce was a lot more money than frozen. whole wheat pasta was about 5x's the price of regular pasta. Wheat bread almost triple the cost of white. And so on and so forth. I'm not even going to go into the cost of fish because I'll just get aggravated with how much I spent again

With the increase in food prices across the board because of increased gas prices and such, low income families just sqeaking by without assistance need to make their money stretch and unfortunately it's a lot harder to justify feeding their kids less just because it's better for them. I'm not saying it's right. Just that it's a lot easier to stretch hamburger helper than it is to stretch grilled cod and tomatoes off season. 9 times out of 10 those foods on sale aren't the healthy options.

If you have easy access to Trader Joes it's a lot easier to make your money stretch on better quality foods. The nearest TJ is an hour away from me so it's like a pilgrimmage for me on the other hand Stop & Shop is right down the road and my healthy foods options are still a bit limited but they are getting better. The go to healthy choice place here is Whole Foods and that's not exactly cheap shopping.

 

[Crankyshank]

I blame McDonalds.





Just kidding. lol.

I know you were speaking in jest but in a way I do too. Not in the way you think though. One of the worst things to happen to American diets is the advent of credit card acceptance at fast food restaurants. At least in my family since DH is constantly working long hours and running to Burger King or McD's

 

[Reflection]

..... Reflection, to answer your question about the cost of food. I understand what you're trying to say and I do agree with your point. I really wasn't factoring in junk food like soda and chips and cookies in my post.

I'm saying as a health conscious consumer with a tight budget, healthier products are more expensive. Aidensmom and Mushy have given some excellent examples. I was just at the store and I can tell you skim milk is more expensive than fat included milk. Soy milk is even more expensive. chicken and pork and turkey are a lot more expensive than fatty cuts of red meat. fresh Produce was a lot more money than frozen. whole wheat pasta was about 5x's the price of regular pasta. Wheat bread almost triple the cost of white. And so on and so forth. I'm not even going to go into the cost of fish because I'll just get aggravated with how much I spent again

With the increase in food prices across the board because of increased gas prices and such, low income families just sqeaking by without assistance need to make their money stretch and unfortunately it's a lot harder to justify feeding their kids less just because it's better for them. I'm not saying it's right. Just that it's a lot easier to stretch hamburger helper than it is to stretch grilled cod and tomatoes off season. 9 times out of 10 those foods on sale aren't the healthy options.

If you have easy access to Trader Joes it's a lot easier to make your money stretch on better quality foods. The nearest TJ is an hour away from me so it's like a pilgrimmage for me on the other hand Stop & Shop is right down the road and my healthy foods options are still a bit limited but they are getting better. The go to healthy choice place here is Whole Foods and that's not exactly cheap shopping.

I completely agree that Whole Food is definitely not cheap shopping , which is why I stick to regular supermarkets and TJS (I greatly appreciate that not only is there one close to my house, but there are quite a few in this area).

The increases in the cost of milk, regardless of type, is something I don't quite get. I guess there is something going on with cows and milk production that I'm unaware of.

Some of your points I don't agree with: whole wheat pasta is not necessarily healthier than white pasta. The difference in fiber count in both varieties is not significant. Brown rice, on the other hand, a different story. Frozen produce (spinach, various other greens such as kale, collards, etc, peas) are not less healthy than fresh. Beans are an incredibly cheap protein source and quite filling.

I understand your point that availabilty of certain items is greatly factored by location and other variables. My point is that even in that scenario, there are inexpensive healthful food items available to lower income consumers. I feel it is cheaper, more filling, and ultimately more nutrititious, to strech rice and beans than Hamburger Helper.

 

[Reflection]

Ground beef is way cheaper than lean chicken, fish, or lean beef. You can pick up a box of Kraft Mac & Cheese for 50 cents, or a store brand for 30 cents. Fruit is pretty expensive -- apples at $1.50 a pound (that's what, 3 apples?), oranges at $8 for 3 pound bags, grapes are $3something a pound. You can choose a loaf of white store brand bread for 89 cents, or a good whole grain bread for over $3.

This is just empirical evidence from living in a very low socioeconomic small town, but you can generally guarantee that a good majority of welfare recipients are overweight. They have to stretch their food stamps, and money only goes so far when trying to feed a family of four. We've had our lean years, and the quality of food we ate was pretty low.

Points taken... But I don't consider packaged Mac&Cheese, Kraft, store brand, or even Mickey's (my daughter will find that sacrilegious )a 'healthy' food item. A 16 oz package or box of plain elbow macaroni (total number of servings, 8) costs under a $1 in regular supermarkets in my area. Some cheese product is always on sale. It seems more cost efficient and healthier to make one's own mac&cheese. I understand the constraints you point out, I maintain there are healthy low cost food options available in various environments.

And I confess to a bias when it comes to mac&cheese--there's no packaged brand I will ever find palatable because my mom makes, from scratch, the best mac&cheese.

 

[Crankyshank]

Even rice is pretty expensive though when you compare it to pasta. I don't buy rice all too much because of the cost personally. and because I hate the taste of brown rice.

I gave the example of fresh vs frozen produce just because that's my experiences as a person trying to lose weight on a tight budget. I'm not really a fan of the frozen veggies. I know I'm not alone in that opinion though.

Wheat pasta is a matter of interpretation. My point was that because it's the healthy trendy option now, the price has been increased way beyond it should be simply because it's an item in demand. If eating organic and healthy were less of a suburban trend it would be more reasonable in price.

And in all honesty brown rice and beans pales in comparison taste-wise to the cheap junk staples. So while it might be economical to stretch rice and beans, it's kind of hard to swallow when there's something else that tastes better, is sort of nutritous, and involves less argument from your kids.

Obesity is such a complex issue. I truly think if there were better programs in place and better nutrition education we'd see less of a problem with low incomes and obesity and in turn help with childhood obesity. I say help because there's the whole issue with immediate gratification, being spoiled, and lack of good nutrition snacks in the schools to contend with as well.

 

[Reflection]

Even rice is pretty expensive though when you compare it to pasta. I don't buy rice all too much because of the cost personally. and because I hate the taste of brown rice.

In this example, location is clearly a component in pricing. This is not the case where I live. Rice, brown or white, can be purchased (1 lb bag) for under $2.

I gave the example of fresh vs frozen produce just because that's my experiences as a person trying to lose weight on a tight budget. I'm not really a fan of the frozen veggies. I know I'm not alone in that opinion though.

Personal preference is one thing. My point is that frozen raw veggies (not the Green Giant or other prepared veggies in some sauce) are not less healthy than fresh.

And in all honesty brown rice and beans pales in comparison taste-wise to the cheap junk staples. So while it might be economical to stretch rice and beans, it's kind of hard to swallow when there's something else that tastes better, is sort of nutritous, and involves less argument from your kids.

Not to my taste buds--I'd rather have my fast and easy cannelini bean soup with spinach or kale than HH any day, but to each their own!

Obesity is such a complex issue.

Agreed. Which is why the effective weight loss strategy--getting the right energy balance of total calories consumed with energy output--requires more than a one-size-fits-all (no pun intended) approach to addressing obesity because the 'why or what' behind what causes people to consume extra calories varies and is as important a factor as gender, family history, ethnicity/culture, medical history, and a host of other factors.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Not to my taste buds--I'd rather have my fast and easy cannelini bean soup with spinach or kale than HH any day, but to each their own!



.

Perk...I don't suppose you have a recipe for this?

 

[Reflection]

Happy to oblige....

From Giada DeLaurentis' Everyday Italian cooking show

[My modifications to this recipe, I use onion (yellow and green), vegetable broth instead of chicken, and I swap the escarole with kale or spinach (fresh or frozen--depends on what I have on hand)]. This is really good and tastes even better the next day. Enjoy

ETA: if you use frozen spinach or kale, just add to the pot after the addition of the broth....

2 tablespoons olive oil
2 garlic cloves, chopped
1 pound escarole, chopped
Salt
4 cups low-salt chicken broth
1 (15-ounce) can cannellini beans, drained and rinsed
1 (1-ounce) piece Parmesan
Freshly ground black pepper
6 teaspoons extra-virgin olive oil

Heat 2 tablespoons of olive oil in a heavy large pot over medium heat. Add the garlic and saute until fragrant, about 15 seconds. Add the escarole and saute until wilted, about 2 minutes. Add a pinch of salt. Add the chicken broth, beans, and Parmesan cheese. Cover and simmer until the beans are heated through, about 5 minutes. Season with salt and pepper, to taste.
Ladle the soup into 6 bowls. Drizzle 1 teaspoon extra-virgin olive oil over each.


Nutrition Information
Calories 180 Fat 11 grams
Sat fat 1.5 grams Carbohydrates 15 grams
Fiber 5 grams Protein 7 grams

 

[Crankyshank]

I've made that soup several times. With kale because I can't stand spinach and it's very good
The only way I can get DH to eat beans is baked or in soups.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Happy to oblige....

From Giada DeLaurentis' Everyday Italian cooking show

[My modifications to this recipe, I use onion (yellow and green), vegetable broth instead of chicken, and I swap the escarole with kale or spinach (fresh or frozen--depends on what I have on hand)]. This is really good and tastes even better the next day. Enjoy

ETA: if you use frozen spinach or kale, just add to the pot after the addition of the broth....

2 tablespoons olive oil
2 garlic cloves, chopped
1 pound escarole, chopped
Salt
4 cups low-salt chicken broth
1 (15-ounce) can cannellini beans, drained and rinsed
1 (1-ounce) piece Parmesan
Freshly ground black pepper
6 teaspoons extra-virgin olive oil

Heat 2 tablespoons of olive oil in a heavy large pot over medium heat. Add the garlic and saute until fragrant, about 15 seconds. Add the escarole and saute until wilted, about 2 minutes. Add a pinch of salt. Add the chicken broth, beans, and Parmesan cheese. Cover and simmer until the beans are heated through, about 5 minutes. Season with salt and pepper, to taste.
Ladle the soup into 6 bowls. Drizzle 1 teaspoon extra-virgin olive oil over each.


Nutrition Information
Calories 180 Fat 11 grams
Sat fat 1.5 grams Carbohydrates 15 grams
Fiber 5 grams Protein 7 grams

I am drooling