What am I missing? DVC vs. Marriot

[pianomanzano]

Just checking....nope I'm not on FB. Just thought I was given how snarky and off-topic everyone is being!

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

You mean the one Robbie uses and the one everyone else does?

Either way: anyone who tells you that any item’s value always goes up is either selling something or a fool.

Well, I was just confused. I don't think there's no merit to the value of vacations used, but it does seem that everyone around here uses the more straightforward market price of the points/contract

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Just checking....nope I'm not on FB. Just thought I was given how snarky and off-topic everyone is being!

Right?! Yikes

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Well, I was just confused. I don't think there's no merit to the value of vacations used, but it does seem that everyone around here uses the more straightforward market price of the points/contract

let try it this way,

I buy 100 gallons of gas. For 400 dollars
i burn 15 gallons of gas in my car.
I then sell the remain 85 gallons of gas 375 dollars

Did I lose 25 dollars or make 35?

 

[rubybutt]

When you were ”underwater” what value did YOU put on all the years you used or rented your points? My guess is zero!

I purchased SSR at $61 a point in 2006 and by 2012 was renting some points at a net of 9 dollars a point. 7 years of renting and I would have OWNED my points for free….. However the vacations I took, the points I used had an approximate value of 5000 dollars a year i recaptured by using the points as compared to rack rate.

So please tell Me what number you put on the value of the vacation you used your points on before they were repoed

So Robbie are you factoring in time value of money in your equations too?

 

[CarolMN]

If a loan is underwater, it means the balance due is more than the current market value of the loan. In the past, there were multiple reports of Members who found themselves unable to make their monthly payments and unable to sell their contracts because they had to provide additional $$ to satisfy the loan before they could sell.

The value of their past vacations or income received from previous point rentals had nothing to do with the foreclosure they suffered or their loan being underwater.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

So Robbie are you factoring in time value of money in your equations too?

I did not include the time value of money in the equations because I see investing in DVC as both an investment in my families personal well being as well as a small financial gain. I don't know where your values lie but investing in my families happiness can not be compared to the 14 percent return on investments that my 401k and other investments were making at the time.

I also did not include tangible items such as:
tax incentives,
Blue Card discounts, For my family these amounted to about 500 dollars per year
Annual pass discounts, For my family these amounted to about 750 dollars per year

or the intangibles such as:

Nor the enjoyment my children got out of knowing that it was only a few more months or weeks until or next trip or knowing we were going to get to stay in their favorite village.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

If a loan is underwater, it means the balance due is more than the current market value of the loan. In the past, there were multiple reports of Members who found themselves unable to make their monthly payments and unable to sell their contracts because they had to provide additional $$ to satisfy the loan before they could sell.

The value of their past vacations or income received from previous point rentals had nothing to do with the foreclosure they suffered or their loan being underwater.

I disagree!

The fact that the members harvested value out of there membership and then could not make the payments does not mean they didn't get value out of it. It just mean it was not in the form of cash.

I got back to my gas equation:

I buy 100 gallons of gas. For 400 dollars
i burn 15 gallons of gas in my car.
I then sell the remain 85 gallons of gas 375 dollars

Did I lose 25 dollars or make 35?

The people that couldn't get out maybe should have rented points to make there payments instead of going on vacation?

 

[Docwheeze]

I did not include the time value of money in the equations because I see investing in DVC as both an investment in my families personal well being as well as a small financial gain. I don't know where your values lie but investing in my families happiness can not be compared to the 14 percent return on investments that my 401k and other investments were making at the time.

I also did not include tangible items such as:
tax incentives,
Blue Card discounts, For my family these amounted to about 500 dollars per year
Annual pass discounts, For my family these amounted to about 750 dollars per year

or the intangibles such as:

Nor the enjoyment my children got out of knowing that it was only a few more months or weeks until or next trip or knowing we were going to get to stay in their favorite village.

I AGREE!!! Impossible to assess value unless you include DVC usage as above. We all have values but the one constant is that our children's happiness is priceless!

 

[DVCanadian]

An asset being underwater means that at the point of sale or the point of anticipated sale the asset is worth less than it can be sold for. No other calculations needed. No intangibles allowed.

Deciding if there was value during ownership is different. Similar to a house that is worth less than the mortgage, sure the people had a home and memories but it is still worth less than the mortgage regardless.

Anyone who sells DVC within two years of buying direct and financing will be “underwater” as they will have to sell for approximately 30% less than they bought it for.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

An asset being underwater means that at the point of sale or the point of anticipated sale the asset is worth less than it can be sold for. No other calculations needed. No intangibles allowed.

Deciding if there was value during ownership is different. Similar to a house that is worth less than the mortgage, sure the people had a home and memories but it is still worth less than the mortgage regardless.

Anyone who sells DVC within two years of buying direct and financing will be “underwater” as they will have to sell for approximately 30% less than they bought it for.

I agree with an asset being underwater means that you own more on it that it is currently worth.
The question is How did you get it there.....

If you buy a house, rip out all the copper and try to sell it, the house will be underwater. It does not mean home ownership is a bad investment.

If you buy DVC use all the points you can get your hands on in the first two year and then try to sell.... Sure it will be under water buy you have extracted value to put yourself in that situation.

In the first two years of ownership the points you purchased have a net value of about 45 dollars per point (assume renting at 20 / point, taxes of 5 dollars per point, borrowing and renting the third years points.)

So if you bought RR at 180 a point, put the minimum of 10 percent down or 18 per point You stand at 162, less the 45 dollars a point you were able to recapture and you point to break even point is $117....currently a full striped contract at RR is selling at 140 per point, .....

That was also for a large 300 point contract. A stripped 50 point contract was $162....

The math work you just have to understand how to get value out of your purchase.

I can conversely see how someone that bought a big contract, used 900 point in two years, might feel they have no value. It is called buyer remorse... Doesn't make the product less valuable just means you didn't manage it properly.

 

[Docwheeze]

An asset being underwater means that at the point of sale or the point of anticipated sale the asset is worth less than it can be sold for. No other calculations needed. No intangibles allowed.

Deciding if there was value during ownership is different. Similar to a house that is worth less than the mortgage, sure the people had a home and memories but it is still worth less than the mortgage regardless.

Anyone who sells DVC within two years of buying direct and financing will be “underwater” as they will have to sell for approximately 30% less than they bought it for.

Could say the same for buying a car. Guess it just depends on whether you look at DVC as an investment or a vacation purchase. Could be a so so investment for some but a great vacation purchase for most.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'll go back to an idea I touched on earlier in the thread:

If extracting value is a necessary component of your purchase decision, I suspect you are trying to talk yourself into it. And, you don't really have to do that. If the purchase is affordable, buy it if you want it for you or for your family; it's fine.

 

[BaybeeYoda]

We've been thru a few TS venues and they didn't have the same bubble aspect. The DVC was the first that included timely bus transportation to entertainment areas - paid (golfing, parks - dry & wet) and unpaid (Disney Springs, Monorail, Boardwalk). Past arriving there is not a need for driving to entertainment, food, staple needs - it's all on property.

Have to admit we never considered transferring outside of DVC venues because I don't like to be hoping in and out of the car as I do that at home. DVC does have a flavor of that with Hilton Head and Vero.

I never thought about the bubble part as the reason I did not enjoy my HHI stay; it just wasn’t…. Disney (to me).

 

[kanerf]

I am a lazy SOB. I like to be able to walk out to the bus stop, boat dock or Sky Liner/Monorail stop and get on and ride to a park. I don't like driving at Disney any more and I especially do not like parking 20 miles from the park. This is why DVC works for me. I also like having a kitchen at me resort room so I can get a cold beer or whatever without having to pay the cost of a six pack for it. I do not own Marriott, but I own Hilton and Wyndham and those work well for me outside of Florida. I used to stay at one of the HGVC properties in Orlando before I got into DVC and they are very nice and generally roomier than a DVC resort, but again the driving and the parking, not for me.

 

[Suzabella]

We own both Marriott and DVC. We've owned Marriott for 25 years and DVC for 20. Having TS has forced us to actually take vacations that we weren't taking before. It was about making memories with our kids while they were younger.

We use our TS/points for different types of vacations.

With Marriott, we've been to S Cal, Aruba 2x, Hawaii, Williamsburg, HHI, and even traded into DVC with II a few times the last time DVC used II. We also have traded our weeks for hotel points. Those hotel points go into the same Bonvoy account as DH's travel stays. We've been to Scotland twice, London 3 times, Paris, and a couple places in Germany. The one thing we've seen over the years is that when we purchased, our weeks were worth over 100,000 Marriott points and could trade for a week in a mid range Marriott. Now those same points are only worth 2/3 nights if we're lucky. Marriott has devalued their points drastically over the years. They are 2 bedroom units at roughly 1800 sft so great for family trips and bigger than DVC.

Our DVC is for Disney only. We've never rented out our points or lost unused points but we have banked and borrowed many times.

 

[bakerworld]

I never thought about the bubble part as the reason I did not enjoy my HHI stay; it just wasn’t…. Disney (to me).

We enjoy the WDW Dolphin about every other year and it has no Disney theming but it is in the bubble. We don't use their buses - we walk to the Disney venues to use their buses - but we can walk into Epcot or over to HS or use the Gondolas. The bubble is very much part of the reason we enjoy WDW.

We've been to HHI twice as a stopover during our drive to Florida and we liked it. My youngest stayed there and they liked it. Neither of us liked how far it was off of R95. Vero Beach is the beachy version of HHI. Neither has the bubble so Vero's a check off item and HHI is in holding if I'm made to drive to Florida. LOL

 

[DL1WDW2]

Appreciate all of this very interesting discussion…
Now would like to add into comparison the new Embassy Suite Timeshare . Currently it seems to be very popular and one that I am interested in because of the amenities and location.
Has anybody looked in to this new development near the MargaritaVille expansion?
Both seem to be very popular currently . Any pros or cons to be added ? Got advice ?

 

[babyruth]

Ok well sorting through the off topic - there was some good convo here about comparing other TS. We already have a DVC contract and I’m thinking about if I should add or or purchase another company. I’m leaning towards another company. If anyone has something to add to the Hilton/Marriott/Wyndham convo that would be great.

 

[Brian Noble]

If you haven't yet done so, I'd strongly recommend joining (and spending a good few months reading) TUG: tugbbs.com. Those folks are super helpful for all of the major timeshare systems, and you'll learn a lot!