What 10 hours of street harassment in NYC looks like

[snapppyd]

Because when you don’t answer them, they usually call you names. I’ve worked in NYC for 18 years, and believe me, they are not trying to be friendly, they are trying to get your attention so they can ogle you some more. They’re not really interested in how your evening is, they want another look at that skirt.

It’s happened to me, it’s happened to my friends. We don’t like it. We don’t need to be told to smile, and we shouldn’t be forced to stop what we’re doing to answer them just so we don’t have to put up with the consequences that usually follow when we don’t.

I loved what Jessica Williams said on the Daily Show a few weeks ago. “My walk to work is not a performance, it’s not a red carpet, and it’s not a fashion runway. So guys, please learn some impulse control, because we’ve got (bleep) to do.”

Agree. I grew up in the South Bronx, it was a nightmare walking back and forth to junior high and high school. "Meda! Baby, *insert kissy noises*" I felt threatened all the time. Then I started riding the subway to work as a teenager and was groped by a disgusting older man.

People who say these men are being nice just live in a bubble somewhere.

Funny, when we go to LBI in the summer the girls can walk the boulevard in their bathing suits and I don't hear/see catcalling and other gross behavior.

 

[wdwmom2]

Because when you don’t answer them, they usually call you names. I’ve worked in NYC for 18 years, and believe me, they are not trying to be friendly, they are trying to get your attention so they can ogle you some more. They’re not really interested in how your evening is, they want another look at that skirt.

It’s happened to me, it’s happened to my friends. We don’t like it. We don’t need to be told to smile, and we shouldn’t be forced to stop what we’re doing to answer them just so we don’t have to put up with the consequences that usually follow when we don’t.

I loved what Jessica Williams said on the Daily Show a few weeks ago. “My walk to work is not a performance, it’s not a red carpet, and it’s not a fashion runway. So guys, please learn some impulse control, because we’ve got (bleep) to do.”

I get what you are saying, really I do. BUT, if all they say is, "have a nice evening", "how are you this morning", and nothing else, I do not consider this harassment. I am not saying that they have good intentions. But if it ends there, it wouldn't bother me.

 

[JenM]

Agree. I grew up in the South Bronx, it was a nightmare walking back and forth to junior high and high school. "Meda! Baby, *insert kissy noises*" I felt threatened all the time. Then I started riding the subway to work as a teenager and was groped by a disgusting older man.

People who say these men are being nice just live in a bubble somewhere.

Funny, when we go to LBI in the summer the girls can walk the boulevard in their bathing suits and I don't hear/see catcalling and other gross behavior.

Yup. Or the ones who tell us we should take these as compliments. No, random guy on the subway platform at Union Square this summer who told me that my shirt was pretty...I didn't need you tell me that. I know it's pretty. That's why I bought it. But now that I know you're looking at it, I need to move down to the other end of the platform and keep watch over my shoulder to make sure you're not following me. Thank you for that.

Or the ones on a certain news channel who said they didn't like it when they were younger, but they enjoy it. I'm 40 years old. I didn't like it when I was 22, when they were old enough to be my father, and I can't believe I still have to put up with it now.

It's not "boys will be boys". It's learn some impulse control and grow up already.

 

[JenM]

I get what you are saying, really I do. BUT, if all they say is, "have a nice evening", "how are you this morning", and nothing else, I do not consider this harassment. I am not saying that they have good intentions. But if it ends there, it wouldn't bother me.

People don't stop and talk to you in NY, it's way too crowded. It's like parking your car on the side of the highway to wave to all the cars and expecting each one to wave back to you. It's just not possible, and when someone randomly walks up to say hello, it's usually because they want something.

I've been through those "hellos" in NY, my friends have too. They're doing it because you got their attention, and now they want to make a fuss out of it. And if you don't respond, they give you a hard time over it.

They need to mind their own business, learn some impulse control, and grow up.

 

[snapppyd]

I get what you are saying, really I do. BUT, if all they say is, "have a nice evening", "how are you this morning", and nothing else, I do not consider this harassment. I am not saying that they have good intentions. But if it ends there, it wouldn't bother me.

Have you experienced this in person? In NY? I'm not being sarcastic, I live in two places and understand that a small town "hello" is not usually threatening. I also worked in Manhattan for 32 years and it's a whole new ballgame.

 

[wdwmom2]

People don't stop and talk to you in NY, it's way too crowded. It's like parking your car on the side of the highway to wave to all the cars and expecting each one to wave back to you. It's just not possible, and when someone randomly walks up to say hello, it's usually because they want something.

I've been through those "hellos" in NY, my friends have too. They're doing it because you got their attention, and now they want to make a fuss out of it. And if you don't respond, they give you a hard time over it.

They need to mind their own business, learn some impulse control, and grow up.

I understand. They are trying to get a rise out of you. Unpleasant for sure, very unwanted. I guess I am looking at the more, not sure how I want to word it, so I will just say "legal" side of it.

Me: "Judge, this scumbag said 'how are you this morning' "
Judge: "and........."

I don't live in a big city, so I don't have to deal these day to day interactions like many of you guys do. But I do go the the city's, DC, Phili, NYC. I don't feel uncomfortable walking down the streets, but I do stick to the more "touristy" areas. I occasionally have had things said to me. I just keep my head up and walk on. What else am I to do????

My worse experience was in Orlando . My family was at the motel and I drove down the road to a little strip mall that had a pizza place in it. As I was going in to get the pizza, I noticed a man doing a double take at me. I left to take the pizza back to my family and there he was in his car next to me. This was on a 4 lane divided road. I had my window partway down. We were at a traffic light waiting for the green. He was on my left. He said in a loud voice, "look what you do to me". His voice caught my attention before I realized what was going on. He was, well, pleasuring himself

 

[wdwmom2]

Have you experienced this in person? In NY? I'm not being sarcastic, I live in two places and understand that a small town "hello" is not usually threatening. I also worked in Manhattan for 32 years and it's a whole new ballgame.

Sorry, I was typing when you posted this. Please see above post

 

[RadioNate]

I get what you are saying, really I do. BUT, if all they say is, "have a nice evening", "how are you this morning", and nothing else, I do not consider this harassment. I am not saying that they have good intentions. But if it ends there, it wouldn't bother me.

But the thing is, it usually doesn't end there. Hasn't this ever happened to you?

You reply "thanks," "you too," or something similar and then it's "where you headed" or "what you doing." It's a conversation that then you are trying to get out of and away from because it has gone from a polite greeting to someone who won't leave you alone. Which in some cases feels very threatening.

OR

You ignore. Then their response is usually "*****" or "what's your problem?" You saw in the video what happens.

I talked about when I'm working and need to walk through the venue to get to the bathroom. Men block my path, they ask where I'm going, I've been touched, they've attempted to pull me towards their group to get a drink and if I don't respond, their response is overwhelmingly to ask "what's that *****es problem?" My problem is that I'm trying to get to the bathroom so I can go back to doing my job. I shouldn't have to tell a bouncer who is overlooking the crowd that I'm going to the bathroom so they keep an eye out, but I do.

It isn't ok.

ETA: it isn't about being polite or nice or giving genuine complements. It is about power. It's about asserting dominance. It isn't about being nice.

 

[wdwmom2]

But the thing is, it usually doesn't end there. Hasn't this ever happened to you?

You reply "thanks," "you too," or something similar and then it's "where you headed" or "what you doing." It's a conversation that then you are trying to get out of and away from because it has gone from a polite greeting to someone who won't leave you alone. Which in some cases feels very threatening.

OR

You ignore. Then their response is usually "*****" or "what's your problem?" You saw in the video what happens.

I talked about when I'm working and need to walk through the venue to get to the bathroom. Men block my path, they ask where I'm going, I've been touched, they've attempted to pull me towards their group to get a drink and if I don't respond, their response is overwhelmingly to ask "what's that *****es problem?" My problem is that I'm trying to get to the bathroom so I can go back to doing my job. I shouldn't have to tell a bouncer who is overlooking the crowd that I'm going to the bathroom so they keep an eye out, but I do.

It isn't ok.

Yes, it has happened. I just kept on walking. It ends. Do I enjoy it? No. Is it right for them to continue? Heck no!!!!

I am not talking about these kind of situations. They are most definitely inappropriate!! I am not talking about when it goes on into the things that you have described. I am talking about when it ends with the sentences I have quoted.

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

I think half those guys are trying to sell something. Very normal looking chick.

 

[RadioNate]

Yes, it has happened. I just kept on walking. It ends. Do I enjoy it? No. Is it right for them to continue? Heck no!!!!

I am not talking about these kind of situations. They are most definitely inappropriate!! I am not talking about when it goes on into the things that you have described. I am talking about when it ends with the sentences I have quoted.

My point is that 99% of the time it doesn't END. They take any acknowledgement from you as an invitation to converse. Or of you don't acknowledge you get called a worse name.

Very, very rarely is it a "have a nice day" and nothing else.

In my experience, obviously. Chicago not NYC.

I give you an example from about a month ago as I was waiting for the valet to bring my car.

Guy: Did you enjoy the show?
Me: Yes
*his cab arrives*
Guy: Have a good night
Me: Thanks, you too
Guy: Come with us
Me: no thanks
Guy *grabbing my arm and pulling me towards the cab* Come on, you'll have fun.
Me: *pulling away* nope, waiting on my car
Guy: you don't like fun, guys she doesn't like fun
*valet friend arrives with car* *stands between guy and me*
Me to valet: thanks, have a good night.

It rarely ends. I don't think anyone is saying it is horrible IF it just ended. But that isn't the reality. Not usually.

And I maintain that a male wouldn't do that or say that to another male. They don't do it to other guys. It's about power.

 

[snapppyd]

my point is that 99% of the time it doesn't end. They take any acknowledgement from you as an invitation to converse. Or of you don't acknowledge you get called a worse name.

Very, very rarely is it a "have a nice day" and nothing else.

In my experience, obviously. Chicago not nyc.

I give you an example from about a month ago as i was waiting for the valet to bring my car.

Guy: Did you enjoy the show?
Me: Yes
*his cab arrives*
guy: Have a good night
me: Thanks, you too
guy: Come with us
me: No thanks
guy *grabbing my arm and pulling me towards the cab* come on, you'll have fun.
Me: *pulling away* nope, waiting on my car
guy: You don't like fun, guys she doesn't like fun
*valet friend arrives with car* *stands between guy and me*
me to valet: Thanks, have a good night.

It rarely ends. I don't think anyone is saying it is horrible if it just ended. But that isn't the reality. Not usually.

And i maintain that a male wouldn't do that or say that to another male. They don't do it to other guys. It's about power.

+1000

 

[JenM]

My point is that 99% of the time it doesn't END. They take any acknowledgement from you as an invitation to converse. Or of you don't acknowledge you get called a worse name.

Very, very rarely is it a "have a nice day" and nothing else.

In my experience, obviously. Chicago not NYC.

I give you an example from about a month ago as I was waiting for the valet to bring my car.

Guy: Did you enjoy the show?
Me: Yes
*his cab arrives*
Guy: Have a good night
Me: Thanks, you too
Guy: Come with us
Me: no thanks
Guy *grabbing my arm and pulling me towards the cab* Come on, you'll have fun.
Me: *pulling away* nope, waiting on my car
Guy: you don't like fun, guys she doesn't like fun
*valet friend arrives with car* *stands between guy and me*
Me to valet: thanks, have a good night.

It rarely ends. I don't think anyone is saying it is horrible IF it just ended. But that isn't the reality. Not usually.

And I maintain that a male wouldn't do that or say that to another male. They don't do it to other guys. It's about power.

That's just it. It doesn't end. You stop and answer, they think it's their invitation to keep going, and they're staring at you while they do. If you keep walking, then you get called something unpleasant and asked what your problem is.

The issue is that it shouldn't start in the first place. We're not walking down the street for your entertainment. Just don't talk to me, ok?

 

[wishing4PA]

Has anyone seen this? I thought it was an interesting snapshot of what some women go through. Thoughts?


http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/28/living/hollaback-10-hours-walking-in-nyc/index.html

I've only seen parts of this particular video, since it's been on the news.

But someone I know currently is filming an (entirely unrelated) video project on the same topic. She's a young woman in NYC, and I have no doubt she has experienced such harassment and has friends who have also, so she views this as an important issue.

I'm not so sure what I think about it though. I'm in my fifties now, but when I was younger, I remember hearing other girls complain about stuff like that, and never noticing it myself. I've never been the most observant human on this planet, so it's possible I received this sort of "attention" and just didn't notice, but the fact that other girls did, or claimed they did so often, left me feeling less secure about myself and my looks/femininity since I didn't experience it myself.

Now that I'm older, that doesn't really bother me anymore. But when I was 17 and somebody honked a horn at me, it actually made me feel good, because was happy to actually be seen as female and a sex object for a change.

But I suppose there are women who get treated that way a lot, and I can see how it could be annoying. And "following" is a whole different ballgame. That's creepy.

 

[wilkeliza]

I've only seen parts of this particular video, since it's been on the news. But someone I know currently is filming an (entirely unrelated) video project on the same topic. She's a young woman in NYC, and I have no doubt she has experienced such harassment and has friends who have also, so she views this as an important issue. I'm not so sure what I think about it though. I'm in my fifties now, but when I was younger, I remember hearing other girls complain about stuff like that, and never noticing it myself. I've never been the most observant human on this planet, so it's possible I received this sort of "attention" and just didn't notice, but the fact that other girls did, or claimed they did so often, left me feeling less secure about myself and my looks/femininity since I didn't experience it myself. Now that I'm older, that doesn't really bother me anymore. But when I was 17 and somebody honked a horn at me, it actually made me feel good, because was happy to actually be seen as female and a sex object for a change. But I suppose there are women who get treated that way a lot, and I can see how it could be annoying. And "following" is a whole different ballgame. That's creepy.

Your example is even worse! You ended up growing up believing if you didn't get this attention then you weren't feminine or pretty. That is the worst part of this. Instead of gaining confidence on your own you ended up seeking out that "high" you get from being conplemented.

 

[robinb]

My worse experience was in Orlando . My family was at the motel and I drove down the road to a little strip mall that had a pizza place in it. As I was going in to get the pizza, I noticed a man doing a double take at me. I left to take the pizza back to my family and there he was in his car next to me. This was on a 4 lane divided road. I had my window partway down. We were at a traffic light waiting for the green. He was on my left. He said in a loud voice, "look what you do to me". His voice caught my attention before I realized what was going on. He was, well, pleasuring himself

But, the behavior from "hello baby" to public ************ is all part of a continuum. It is ALL meant to empower the man objectify and dis-empower the woman. All of it.

 

[elaine amj]

I get what you are saying, really I do. BUT, if all they say is, "have a nice evening", "how are you this morning", and nothing else, I do not consider this harassment. I am not saying that they have good intentions. But if it ends there, it wouldn't bother me.

It's one thing to receive a lighthearted (and genuine) compliment. It's a whole other ballgame when guys are being jerks (usually to show off in front of other guys) and it starts feeling creepy. As a woman, you KNOW men are typically stronger. And you never know when someone just messing around also has his head twisted up and is going to stalk you or worse. It's just not right when it leads to a woman feeling unsafe.

My point is that 99% of the time it doesn't END. They take any acknowledgement from you as an invitation to converse. Or of you don't acknowledge you get called a worse name.

Very, very rarely is it a "have a nice day" and nothing else.

In my experience, obviously. Chicago not NYC.

I give you an example from about a month ago as I was waiting for the valet to bring my car.

Guy: Did you enjoy the show?
Me: Yes
*his cab arrives*
Guy: Have a good night
Me: Thanks, you too
Guy: Come with us
Me: no thanks
Guy *grabbing my arm and pulling me towards the cab* Come on, you'll have fun.
Me: *pulling away* nope, waiting on my car
Guy: you don't like fun, guys she doesn't like fun
*valet friend arrives with car* *stands between guy and me*
Me to valet: thanks, have a good night.

It rarely ends. I don't think anyone is saying it is horrible IF it just ended. But that isn't the reality. Not usually.

And I maintain that a male wouldn't do that or say that to another male. They don't do it to other guys. It's about power.

That is a scary situation. What if those guys were drunk enough to try and force the issue? They obviously already think that just because "they" think they are fun that any woman should be grateful to be allowed to join their fun.

 

[sam_gordon]

And I maintain that a male wouldn't do that or say that to another male. They don't do it to other guys. It's about power.

I hate this argument. Guys are saying these things because they find you attractive. Yes, most are trying to get a rise out of you. No, they shouldn't be doing it. But they're not going to say anything to other guys because they don't find other guys attractive.

No, I'm not saying women should take cat calls as a compliment. I think it is sad that guys can't tell a strange women she looks attractive or looks nice or has a nice dress (and even just end it there) because many men take it too far.

 

[RadioNate]

That is a scary situation. What if those guys were drunk enough to try and force the issue? They obviously already think that just because "they" think they are fun that any woman should be grateful to be allowed to join their fun.

I wasn't scared, however it was at a venue we partner with at least once a month. The door guy, the valets, they all know me. I'm also well versed in dealing with drunks.

To wdwmom2's point. This started innocent enough. We were waiting together, he said something. He could have gotten into his cab without a word and really, no problem. But the situation became enough of an issue that the valet felt the need to step in. This guy's friends were walking over, and soon I would have had 2-3 guys surrounding me, all "shaming" me for not being fun. Simply because I didn't want to get into a cab with strangers when I was done working an event.

These guys only backed off because another guy stepped up. It is going to take other men to say "hey, knock it off" before anything changes.

 

[snapppyd]

I hate this argument. Guys are saying these things because they find you attractive. Yes, most are trying to get a rise out of you. No, they shouldn't be doing it. But they're not going to say anything to other guys because they don't find other guys attractive.

No, I'm not saying women should take cat calls as a compliment. I think it is sad that guys can't tell a strange women she looks attractive or looks nice or has a nice dress (and even just end it there) because many men take it too far.

But some here are saying it's just a hello, good morning, etc. If that is the case they can say good morning to a man as well. You are admitting they do it to women because of looks. That is the problem, it's wrong.