WDW Marathon Waivers Are (sort of) Up!

[dburg30]

I guess I'm surprised people are making it sound like their corral is being assigned with an estimated finish time, and not a proof of time?

 

[rachlovestv]

I guess I'm surprised people are making it sound like their corral is being assigned with an estimated finish time, and not a proof of time?

That was really just my speculation, it sounds like that's not the case. It just doesn't make sense that my friend and I could submit nearly the same proof of time and be in such far apart corrals (J & N) unless something got missed along the way.

 

[Dug720]

That was really just my speculation, it sounds like that's not the case. It just doesn't make sense that my friend and I could submit nearly the same proof of time and be in such far apart corrals (J & N) unless something got missed along the way.

Just as if they were going on estimated finish times. There are probably a lot of people with POT in a certain range, and that could spread over two corrals.

 

[cewait]

Maybe I am missing something in the chain here...

I thought that estimated times were the primary sort for corrals, especially those who offered a proof at registration. The only way that a proof of time would override an estimate would be if the proof does not support the estimate; either way. e.g. a 4 hour estimated full is not supported by a 3 hour half. The final sort would be those who put NA in the estimated time slot then offered a proof later.

I know that when I run with friends and family and we enter at the same time, we put our estimated times at the same time and have always been in the same corral regardless of the proof.

 

[rachlovestv]

Maybe I am missing something in the chain here... I thought that estimated times were the primary sort for corrals, especially those who offered a proof at registration. The only way that a proof of time would override an estimate would be if the proof does not support the estimate; either way. e.g. a 4 hour estimated full is not supported by a 3 hour half. The final sort would be those who put NA in the estimated time slot then offered a proof later. I know that when I run with friends and family and we enter at the same time, we put our estimated times at the same time and have always been in the same corral regardless of the proof.

No, I think you must be right. If they sort by estimated time first, it makes sense that we are 5 corrals apart. We have similar proof of time (only about a few minutes apart), but my friend gave an estimated finish time an hour more than the estimated time I gave.

In the end, it will be ok. We'll decide ahead of time if we want to try and run the whole thing together, and if that's the case, I'll move back and start with him in N. Another option is I start in J, he starts in N, and he eventually catches up with me. That could definitely happen, since I'll have run for 3 days already and he'll have fresh legs.

 

[goofeygirl]

My friend and I - I am running the Dopey and she the Goofy...have almost identical finish times...her finish time is a few minuets better than mine though.
I entered my pot and she entered her estimated time of finish...it was roughly the same time..however she is two corals behind me now.
I did forward her info to email RD with her pot so we could be in the same coral and not the back...but for some reason she did not and felt the estimated time would be the same thing.
So I am in K and she is in M. Had she emailed them her pot than I think she would have been K and probably more likely the J coral..ahead of me.

 

[creativeamanda]

It appears on the runDisney website they are starting to add in the estimated times with the corrals. I'm assuming because of all the calls and emails that they received about corral placement.

I have no complaints. I was surprised at the L placement, but I wasn't going to fight it. Now looking at the 5 hour ETA for K and 6 hour for M, I think maybe they were a little generous in my placement.

 

[paxsarah]

Interesting. They may have been a bit generous with me as well. I'll start toward the back of my corral, and I should be able to keep up with the run of my run/walk. Then once I hit the walk I'll let them drop me.

 

[DoctorK]

It appears on the runDisney website they are starting to add in the estimated times with the corrals. I'm assuming because of all the calls and emails that they received about corral placement.

I have no complaints. I was surprised at the L placement, but I wasn't going to fight it. Now looking at the 5 hour ETA for K and 6 hour for M, I think maybe they were a little generous in my placement.

It's interesting because now we can kind of see the "Dopey Penalty." My 2:06 Half POT would have put me in the F or G corral if I were running the Half only, but I'm in the I corral for Dopey, so it's a 2-3 corral penalty.

Instead of being with people running 9:30/mile I'll be starting with people running 13:30/mile. My overall pace when including time that it takes for meeting characters will end up being around 12:30 but when I'm actually running I'll be closer to 11:00/mile, which is about the pace I'd run if I weren't stopping at all, and well slower than the 9:30 I'd run if I were running the Half by itself.

It seems like the penalty is a little too steep. I would think 1-2 minutes/mile max would have sufficed.

 

[creativeamanda]

It's interesting because now we can kind of see the "Dopey Penalty." My 2:06 Half POT would have put me in the F or G corral if I were running the Half only, but I'm in the I corral for Dopey, so it's a 2-3 corral penalty.

Instead of being with people running 9:30/mile I'll be starting with people running 13:30/mile. My overall pace when including time that it takes for meeting characters will end up being around 12:30 but when I'm actually running I'll be closer to 11:00/mile, which is about the pace I'd run if I weren't stopping at all, and well slower than the 9:30 I'd run if I were running the Half by itself.

It seems like the penalty is a little too steep. I would think 1-2 minutes/mile max would have sufficed.

I don't think a 4:30 marathon equates to a 13:30 pace. It matches a 10:30 pace. Looking at the chart, that is where they have you placed--between 4:00 and 5:00. My placement (L) equates to 11:50 pace which is totally not in my comfort zone. My submitted half was at a 13 m/mile pace, but I submitted a 5 hour estimated time, because prior to that half I had 2 10Ks at an 11 min/mile pace plus I was injured for that half.

 

[DoctorK]

I don't think a 4:30 marathon equates to a 13:30 pace. It matches a 10:30 pace. Looking at the chart, that is where they have you placed--between 4:00 and 5:00. My placement (L) equates to 11:50 pace which is totally not in my comfort zone. My submitted half was at a 13 m/mile pace, but I submitted a 5 hour estimated time, because prior to that half I had 2 10Ks at an 11 min/mile pace plus I was injured for that half.

I was looking at the Half Marathon corrals. Corral I is just in front of the 3:00 corral, so assuming Corral I will be around 2:55 it should be a pace somewhere around 13:25/mile.

It seems the penalty for the Half Marathon is far greater than the penalty for the Marathon. Why would they assume a nearly 4 minute/mile penalty for the half marathon, but almost no penalty for the full marathon?

 

[paxsarah]

Is it as simple as being placed in the correct corral for the marathon, which equates to a half-marathon corral that is inappropriately slow due to the "softer" field for the half? I remember something similar from when I ran Goofy a couple of years ago - I was in C, which would be correct for the full, but on its own I probably would have been in B for the half. But with fewer corrals then, it was only one corral apart from the correct placement.

Edit: In fact, I pointed out this very issue with regard to the Goofy a couple of months ago (referring to the old corrals, of course): http://disboards.com/showpost.php?p=49541241&postcount=15

 

[creativeamanda]

I was looking at the Half Marathon corrals. Corral I is just in front of the 3:00 corral, so assuming Corral I will be around 2:55 it should be a pace somewhere around 13:25/mile.

It seems the penalty for the Half Marathon is far greater than the penalty for the Marathon. Why would they assume a nearly 4 minute/mile penalty for the half marathon, but almost no penalty for the full marathon?

I think the most likely reason is because in the training plans for the Goofy and Dopey, Jeff Galloway suggests that runners slow their paces for the half to be able to run strong for the full.

 

[DoctorK]

I think the most likely reason is because in the training plans for the Goofy and Dopey, Jeff Galloway suggests that runners slow their paces for the half to be able to run strong for the full.

I'm using the Galloway training plans, and my walk segments are 14:00/mile. I don't think he's advocating walking the entire actual half, although that's what he recommends in training.

I think a more balanced expectation of pace would have been wiser by runDisney than this. I don't even run my long slow training runs at 13:25/mile.

Submitted Half Marathon POT: 9:35/mile
Half Marathon Corral I Pace: 13:25/mile
Marathon Corral I Pace: 10:20/mile

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I'm using the Galloway training plans, and my walk segments are 14:00/mile. I don't think he's advocating walking the entire actual half, although that's what he recommends in training.

I think a more balanced expectation of pace would have been wiser by runDisney than this. I don't even run my long slow training runs at 13:25/mile.

Submitted Half Marathon POT: 9:35/mile
Half Marathon Corral I Pace: 13:25/mile
Marathon Corral I Pace: 10:20/mile

I think that's where things get screwy. I'm the corral ahead of you, and I have no intention of coming close to a 10:20 pace the entire weekend. I plan on running the half at about 11:15-30 pace and the full at 12:30 pace. I don't walk at all, either.

 

[cewait]

This is the third year of being single bibbed and in the two previous years the half corral has had a slower standard than the full. Not sure but I think it due to the average pace of the half being a slower pace. That coupled with the full being the race that governed seeding I think this is nothing new. The only thing new here is the fact that there are more corrals and thus is makes it seem like we are further back. Wait until the program comes out. I am thinking that the K corral is the 0600(ish) corral and that the last runner will still cross the start in the later 06:20's

 

[ironz]

I'm using the Galloway training plans, and my walk segments are 14:00/mile. I don't think he's advocating walking the entire actual half, although that's what he recommends in training.

I think a more balanced expectation of pace would have been wiser by runDisney than this. I don't even run my long slow training runs at 13:25/mile.

Submitted Half Marathon POT: 9:35/mile
Half Marathon Corral I Pace: 13:25/mile
Marathon Corral I Pace: 10:20/mile

Where are you seeing these? I don't think that is true for the Half "I" corral. I'm in K (two corrals back), and have faster estimated and proof times for the half. Maybe more along the lines of 12:20/mile. I know, still not where you wanted to be, but not 13:25.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Where are you seeing these? I don't think that is true for the Half "I" corral. I'm in K (two corrals back), and have faster estimated and proof times for the half. Maybe more along the lines of 12:20/mile. I know, still not where you wanted to be, but not 13:25.

I think those are that poster's planned paces. I didn't submit a proof of time anywhere near as fast as that, and I'm in a faster corral than that.

 

[creativeamanda]

I'm using the Galloway training plans, and my walk segments are 14:00/mile. I don't think he's advocating walking the entire actual half, although that's what he recommends in training.

I think a more balanced expectation of pace would have been wiser by runDisney than this. I don't even run my long slow training runs at 13:25/mile.

Submitted Half Marathon POT: 9:35/mile
Half Marathon Corral I Pace: 13:25/mile
Marathon Corral I Pace: 10:20/mile

I heard him advocate walking the half for the Dopey in a pocast a couple of months ago.

Where are you seeing these? I don't think that is true for the Half "I" corral. I'm in K (two corrals back), and have faster estimated and proof times for the half. Maybe more along the lines of 12:20/mile. I know, still not where you wanted to be, but not 13:25.

I think he calculated the 3:00 listed by Disney for J. It's more likely Disney is anticipating 2:45 for I, though.

 

[paxsarah]

I still think it's as simple as runDisney puts runners in the "correct" corral for the full. Unfortunately, this is not the "correct" corral for the half, because the marathon has a stronger field of runners than the half. This is amplified by the additional corrals for this year, whereas in previous years for goofy, you might only be one corral off of where you'd have been in the stand-alone half. If they're only doing one bib with one corral designation, one of them is simply going to be "wrong."

I think this is really something they should look at fixing for future years, but for this year I guess Goofy and Dopey runners should look at it as being forced into a more leisurely approach for the half.