WDW and Universal. Who wins?

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Not sure what Genie+ and ILL's has to do with not being laid back. I use both, they are super easy if your attitude is laid back. Super easy. And I am old. I just click, click and have another ride set up.

And please show me where this "angry people in much greater numbers" stat is kept? Is, it because WDW has a higher attendance?

I can't help you with the angry people because it's buried on the DIS but if you were around perusing threads from 2021-2022 you'd see how much people were noticing the difference there. It was mega noticed. No it's not because of higher attendance though swarms of people don't help. You could have low crowds and still have angry people. Many seem to get the picture that the pressure with the amount of money spent, the amount of planning and complexity involved for a Disney trip creates that perfect storm. The number of instances in rude behaviors, people snapping at CMs, disgruntled parents, etc have been reported to be much more prevalent over at Disney than Universal by many posters on this Board.

As far as genie+ and LL well that's because you're not quite getting the laid back comment when it's being said. The fact that those two exist that you're having to select a time to ride is what takes away that laid back/chill environment when you're comparing it to Universal. With EP you just you know decide "I want to go on High in the Sky right now" okay show your key card and enter the line. Did you want to re-ride that when you got done? Okay just repeat. There's nothing to really think about/plan for, you just move through the day.

With Disney let's say a person wants to eat at a TS restaurant so they book an ADR, now those open at 60 days in advance, okay so you've done that. Now you're wanting a Rise ILL so you book that in the wee morning or you're purchasing Genie+ now you've got to plan/select what time you want and make sure it doesn't interfere with your dining plans OR your park hopping plans. Oh yeah and you can't park hop til 2pm so you've got issues there. I remember May 2022 with our friend who was also there for the wedding she was having to constantly check her phone to be able to select her FOP LL for the right time, in the morning it was too early for the times she wants which was the afternoon so she just had to keep checking. These just don't exist at Universal.

People are confusing their ability to use the things that go with Disney (ADRs, Genie+/ILL) to mean it's not a big deal to them but they aren't quite looking at it from the standpoint of what you do (or rather don't) at Universal which is why many give the laid back win to Universal. Just because I had no issues with FP+ and could use it to the greatest advantage didn't make Disney more laid back than Universal. And when we used MP over at DLR just because I knew how to use that (mostly because of my prior FP+ experience) didn't make that park laid back. That's not what people are getting at when they say these things.

Bringing in another park Silver Dollar City another laid back place. Having their Trailblazer pass same thing as Universal, no planning just show up to the ride and there ya go. Disney even with Legacy FP when the crowds were much much lower still had where you had a time to ride, you couldn't just show up at an attraction and enter the skip the line, you may have gotten a FP (speaking about Legacy) for that immediate time but not always.

 

[sipnride]

I can't help you with the angry people because it's buried on the DIS but if you were around perusing threads from 2021-2022 you'd see how much people were noticing the difference there. It was mega noticed. No it's not because of higher attendance though swarms of people don't help. You could have low crowds and still have angry people. Many seem to get the picture that the pressure with the amount of money spent, the amount of planning and complexity involved for a Disney trip creates that perfect storm. The number of instances in rude behaviors, people snapping at CMs, disgruntled parents, etc have been reported to be much more prevalent over at Disney than Universal by many posters on this Board.

As far as genie+ and LL well that's because you're not quite getting the laid back comment when it's being said. The fact that those two exist that you're having to select a time to ride is what takes away that laid back/chill environment when you're comparing it to Universal. With EP you just you know decide "I want to go on High in the Sky right now" okay show your key card and enter the line. Did you want to re-ride that when you got done? Okay just repeat. There's nothing to really think about/plan for, you just move through the day.

With Disney let's say a person wants to eat at a TS restaurant so they book an ADR, now those open at 60 days in advance, okay so you've done that. Now you're wanting a Rise ILL so you book that in the wee morning or you're purchasing Genie+ now you've got to plan/select what time you want and make sure it doesn't interfere with your dining plans OR your park hopping plans. Oh yeah and you can't park hop til 2pm so you've got issues there. I remember May 2022 with our friend who was also there for the wedding she was having to constantly check her phone to be able to select her FOP LL for the right time, in the morning it was too early for the times she wants which was the afternoon so she just had to keep checking. These just don't exist at Universal.

People are confusing their ability to use the things that go with Disney (ADRs, Genie+/ILL) to mean it's not a big deal to them but they aren't quite looking at it from the standpoint of what you do (or rather don't) at Universal which is why many give the laid back win to Universal. Just because I had no issues with FP+ and could use it to the greatest advantage didn't make Disney more laid back than Universal. And when we used MP over at DLR just because I knew how to use that (mostly because of my prior FP+ experience) didn't make that park laid back. That's not what people are getting at when they say these things.

Bringing in another park Silver Dollar City another laid back place. Having their Trailblazer pass same thing as Universal, no planning just show up to the ride and there ya go. Disney even with Legacy FP when the crowds were much much lower still had where you had a time to ride, you couldn't just show up at an attraction and enter the skip the line, you may have gotten a FP (speaking about Legacy) for that immediate time but not always.

This all assumes you have an express pass. If you don't then Universal can be a real nightmare to navigate. Say what you will about Genie+ but at least it doesn't double the price of admission nor add a serious weight to the standby line.

So if you can afford that then yes, chill, but otherwise Universal queues are pretty awful, and if you aren't timing things right (iow planning very carefully) you're standing in line for most of the day. I still haven't ridden transformers because every single time I'm in New York ready to ride it is slammed.

And look, I get that Disney is crazy expensive so it's not like it's absurd to just say duh, get an express pass, but every time someone uses their express pass it comes at the expense of those who don't, whereas genie+, even with all its flaws, is trying to make sure that there's a limit to how much the standby queues are impacted.

 

[Smugpugmug]

This all assumes you have an express pass. If you don't then Universal can be a real nightmare to navigate. Say what you will about Genie+ but at least it doesn't double the price of admission nor add a serious weight to the standby line.

So if you can afford that then yes, chill, but otherwise Universal queues are pretty awful, and if you aren't timing things right (iow planning very carefully) you're standing in line for most of the day. I still haven't ridden transformers because every single time I'm in New York ready to ride it is slammed.

And look, I get that Disney is crazy expensive so it's not like it's absurd to just say duh, get an express pass, but every time someone uses their express pass it comes at the expense of those who don't, whereas genie+, even with all its flaws, is trying to make sure that there's a limit to how much the standby queues are impacted.

Saying that Genie+ doesn't impact the standby line as much as Express pass does is not true at all. The ratio of Genie+ guests entering the merge point vs. standby guests greatly impacts the standby line. Fastpass+ was the same way, if not worse since it wasn't paywalled.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This all assumes you have an express pass. If you don't then Universal can be a real nightmare to navigate. Say what you will about Genie+ but at least it doesn't double the price of admission nor add a serious weight to the standby line.

So if you can afford that then yes, chill, but otherwise Universal queues are pretty awful, and if you aren't timing things right (iow planning very carefully) you're standing in line for most of the day. I still haven't ridden transformers because every single time I'm in New York ready to ride it is slammed.

And look, I get that Disney is crazy expensive so it's not like it's absurd to just say duh, get an express pass, but every time someone uses their express pass it comes at the expense of those who don't, whereas genie+, even with all its flaws, is trying to make sure that there's a limit to how much the standby queues are impacted.

I beg to differ. Like I said in my previous comment the ONLY time I've toured USO with EP was last year. All my other trips have been without it. I'm pretty sure I can speak from my experience on that one And just for example's sake we didn't have EP the first day we were at USO May 2022 because we were over at Endless Summer, with our Royal Pacific stay we had EP for the remaining 2 days. We still did all the rides we wanted...without EP, we just rode them on a more repeat basis with EP. I would say the attraction EP helped out the most was Hippogriff.

And Smug is correct about Genie+, I believe the estimated ratio is 90/10, I think FP+ was 80/20. With EP in general they tend to have the ratio better and folks are never overpromised at Universal on their wait time with EP.

 

[DizneyFamof4]

Not sure what Genie+ and ILL's has to do with not being laid back. I use both, they are super easy if your attitude is laid back. Super easy. And I am old. I just click, click and have another ride set up.

And please show me where this "angry people in much greater numbers" stat is kept? Is, it because WDW has a higher attendance?

It's not hard but it is an inconvenience and takes away from your time with the family, it may not be a lot of time but you still "have" to do it if you want to get the benefits of G+. My family mentioned a bunch of times on how much more time I spend on my phone since G+ arrived. The last time at US, I didn't have to get up early to buy G+, I didn't have to remember to get on my phone every 2 hours or as soon as I get off a G+ ride just so I can pick another G+ ride. Also the fact that you cannot control the ride time is also another issue.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Saying that Genie+ doesn't impact the standby line as much as Express pass does is not true at all. The ratio of Genie+ guests entering the merge point vs. standby guests greatly impacts the standby line. Fastpass+ was the same way, if not worse since it wasn't paywalled.

Right? When 4 or 5 people from SB on Navi is let through but more than 30 from the LL and you're at a complete stop forever it's affecting it. Or when you're moving along for FOP and then all of a sudden you're stopped for 10 mins and you're right there where you can see the LL line and it's just people after people after people coming...you can figure out why you're stopped. And then on Alien Swirling Saucers when they won't load the SB line for multiple rotations so the SB line is building and your 20 min wait is now clocked at 55mins you can see it being affected.

It's not that EP isn't affecting the SB, it's that Disney seems to have made their systems they use have a more skewed ratio. I saw the same thing happen at TSMM with MP over at DCA and RSR.

To bring back memories here's my comment that I looked up from a few weeks after being back from DLR in 2019 when there was MP (one day we did not have MP and we regretted it so bad and bought it the other days, I hate that we felt like we had to do that): "seeing 5 or 6 people from the SB line be let in on TSMM in DLR then hoards of FP people..yeah that 40mins wait was brutal just brutal. So was RSR when none of us could figure out why they wouldn't let anyone suddenly from SB go through but they were continuously letting through people from the FP line. Like no one would be coming up through the FP line and they still wouldn't let anyone from the SB line go. And before we were at least somewhat moving then we just stopped and didn't get going."

Disney just has gotten worse I think if you're talking about people's attitudes with Genie+/ILL around, the issue with their SB lines has existed in the past even when it was a paid system like MP was.

 

[sipnride]

Saying that Genie+ doesn't impact the standby line as much as Express pass does is not true at all. The ratio of Genie+ guests entering the merge point vs. standby guests greatly impacts the standby line. Fastpass+ was the same way, if not worse since it wasn't paywalled.

But they're capping it so that when too many people have Genie+ pass for a given slot when compared to expected queues they stop making LL passes available. There's no ability or even interest to control that at Universal.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But they're capping it so that when too many people have Genie+ pass for a given slot when compared to expected queues they stop making LL passes available. There's no ability or even interest to control that at Universal.

Well there isn't an ability to control things over at Disney either. They can't control when a bunch of people that have a LL for 4-5 show up at 4:50pm instead of staggering themselves out over the hour or when a ride breaks down and they make it an open LL (excluding certain rides). This is why you've seen pictures of the LL at Space Mountain being more than the Standby line. There's just as much unpredictability.

 

[sipnride]

I beg to differ. Like I said in my previous comment the ONLY time I've toured USO with EP was last year. All my other trips have been without it. I'm pretty sure I can speak from my experience on that one And just for example's sake we didn't have EP the first day we were at USO May 2022 because we were over at Endless Summer, with our Royal Pacific stay we had EP for the remaining 2 days. We still did all the rides we wanted...without EP, we just rode them on a more repeat basis with EP. I would say the attraction EP helped out the most was Hippogriff.

And Smug is correct about Genie+, I believe the estimated ratio is 90/10, I think FP+ was 80/20. With EP in general they tend to have the ratio better and folks are never overpromised at Universal on their wait time with EP.

I've been to universal plenty, at different times of year, and even though I do always ride most of what I wanted it doesn't change the fact that I'm spending most of my time in a line, because if you're not riding rides there's nothing else really to do. Even in Diagon Alley, as inspired as it is, waiting in line to get into a store, waiting in line to buy something, waiting in line to cast a spell, waiting in line to buy a drink, waiting in line to buy a ghost corn on the cob. It can be fun sometimes especially with the kids enjoying themselves which is why we do it, but no, not chill, not by my standard.

We just have different definitions of chill. My definition does not include waiting in long lines, or even going from one ride to another to another to another as a walk on. For me, chill (at a theme park anyhow) is getting to a park, having an attraction I can experience as planned, then relaxing, doing a little shopping, snacking or grabbing a coffee, then when it's time for the next attraction moseying my way over to it. If in between there happens to be another ride with a low queue sure I'll give it a go but I'm truly ok with riding 3 or 4 rides that had very little wait and the rest of the time enjoying everything else the WDW parks have to offer, then heading back to a resort for a few hours and going out again at night for another similar run so that in a day I rode 6-8 rides, saw a show or two, had a nice meal and a few drinks, and experiencing a few of the many, many WDW attractions that are lower profile and have no queues. And that's a typical day at Disney for me.

I'm simply unable to ever experience something like that at USO. The best I can say is I rode all the rides and only waited in line for 200 minutes total. That's a good day at Universal or IOA with no express pass.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

because if you're not riding rides there's nothing else really to do.

Totally false.

There's the Blues Brothers, there's interacting with the Scooby gang, there's the Make Up horror show, the shows in both HP areas, Bourne show, while it's no longer going on they had the parade, then the nighttime show (I think they were doing a new thing though??) There's streetmosphere stuff-we watched construction workers on scaffolding make some jams, and more. Just what are you doing at the parks? Drastically different than us it would appear.

waiting in line to get into a store, waiting in line to buy something, waiting in line to cast a spell, waiting in line to buy a drink, waiting in line to buy a ghost corn on the cob. It can be fun sometimes especially with the kids enjoying themselves which is why we do it, but no, not chill, not by my standard.

I'm sorry but how are you waiting in line all the time? I think this is like the other poster. Do none of you actually take in Universal or are you treating it as some other place. Because if you want to go that route I can just tell you that at Disney all I did was wait in lines forever even Mobile orders had lines, lines to get merch, lines to get on the monorail and the ferry, lines to get into the parks, lines to get into the rides, etc. But really that's not all I could do and did do at Disney anymore than at Universal.

For me, chill (at a theme park anyhow)

This sounds like all you want is to have your day planned out to virtually the minute because it alleviates your stress. And because you get to plan to your hearts content at Disney is makes you feel more laid back, that isn't the same as saying Universal is a laid back park where planning isn't required to make the most of your park ticket. So for you, you get to feel laid back because you did so many things to get there, totally different thing there.

 

[Smugpugmug]

But they're capping it so that when too many people have Genie+ pass for a given slot when compared to expected queues they stop making LL passes available. There's no ability or even interest to control that at Universal.

Express pass is capped as well. It does sell out.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Right? When 4 or 5 people from SB on Navi is let through but more than 30 from the LL and you're at a complete stop forever it's affecting it. Or when you're moving along for FOP and then all of a sudden you're stopped for 10 mins and you're right there where you can see the LL line and it's just people after people after people coming...you can figure out why you're stopped. And then on Alien Swirling Saucers when they won't load the SB line for multiple rotations so the SB line is building and your 20 min wait is now clocked at 55mins you can see it being affected.

It's not that EP isn't affecting the SB, it's that Disney seems to have made their systems they use have a more skewed ratio. I saw the same thing happen at TSMM with MP over at DCA and RSR.

To bring back memories here's my comment that I looked up from a few weeks after being back from DLR in 2019 when there was MP (one day we did not have MP and we regretted it so bad and bought it the other days, I hate that we felt like we had to do that): "seeing 5 or 6 people from the SB line be let in on TSMM in DLR then hoards of FP people..yeah that 40mins wait was brutal just brutal. So was RSR when none of us could figure out why they wouldn't let anyone suddenly from SB go through but they were continuously letting through people from the FP line. Like no one would be coming up through the FP line and they still wouldn't let anyone from the SB line go. And before we were at least somewhat moving then we just stopped and didn't get going."

Disney just has gotten worse I think if you're talking about people's attitudes with Genie+/ILL around, the issue with their SB lines has existed in the past even when it was a paid system like MP was.

I have been in standby lines where I have seen massive amounts of people speed right past me when I've been waiting for an hour. Most recent experience was the Safari. I waited 70+ minutes and I saw the Genie+ line continuously be let in while the standby line didn't move a single centimeter for a solid 10 minutes.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I have been in standby lines where I have seen massive amounts of people speed right past me when I've been waiting for an hour. Most recent experience was the Safari. I waited 70+ minutes and I saw the Genie+ line continuously be let in while the standby line didn't move a single centimeter for a solid 10 minutes.

And gosh Safari is a hard one since you can be on the attraction for a while. It's so frustrating when you're seeing/experiencing that happen. We got so annoyed with our experience at Navi afterwards we went to Nomads for ...maybe that's Disney's plan all along get money out of me one way or another

 

[sipnride]

Totally false.

There's the Blues Brothers, there's interacting with the Scooby gang, there's the Make Up horror show, the shows in both HP areas, Bourne show, while it's no longer going on they had the parade, then the nighttime show (I think they were doing a new thing though??) There's streetmosphere stuff-we watched construction workers on scaffolding make some jams, and more. Just what are you doing at the parks? Drastically different than us it would appear.

I'm sorry but how are you waiting in line all the time? I think this is like the other poster. Do none of you actually take in Universal or are you treating it as some other place. Because if you want to go that route I can just tell you that at Disney all I did was wait in lines forever even Mobile orders had lines, lines to get merch, lines to get on the monorail and the ferry, lines to get into the parks, lines to get into the rides, etc. But really that's not all I could do and did do at Disney anymore than at Universal.

This sounds like all you want is to have your day planned out to virtually the minute because it alleviates your stress. And because you get to plan to your hearts content at Disney is makes you feel more laid back, that isn't the same as saying Universal is a laid back park where planning isn't required to make the most of your park ticket. So for you, you get to feel laid back because you did so many things to get there, totally different thing there.

I don't have it all planned out to the minute, but keep in mind that planning ahead of time (not chill) and having a chill day at the park are are not mutually exclusive.

If anything I've been planning less and less at Disney parks but just enjoying everything more easily. Unless its spring break or Christmas (and I'm very unlikely to be in any park on those weeks) I know that I can pass on something with even a moderate wait because there's something just as interesting that has no queue at all. I almost always pass on a 30 minute wait for the Safari because I can just walk into the gorilla trail, or go to Rafikis Planet Watch. And when I'm done, decent chance Safari is back down under 15. Remy's got a long line well then I'd rather take a stroll through Mitsukoshi and do a little shopping. Jungle Cruise has its usual stupid long line let's just give the Swiss Family Tree a climb. Pirates down again and splash/thunder mountains have long waits I'm just going head over to Tom Sawyer Island for a while.

And yeah I've seen all the shows, and they're pretty weak. The humor at the make-up show is just, idk, not my cup of tea, and the show is otherwise underwhelming. The construction crew is fine but its like the only thing, whereas Disney has Tam Tam, Matsuriza, and like at least a dozen other acts like them. The Bourne show is better than Indiana Jones but it's not, um, good. It's fine I guess. Night and day in terms of production. I did like the Beetlegeuse show but that's gone now. The HP stuff is underwhelming. And all of that's on the Universal side. On the IOA side the only thing they had was Poseidon's Fury, which I also liked, but is now also gonzo. I will give a shout out to the grinchmas show during the holidays though.

Regardless, none of that is even close to Lion King or Nemo. At best the shows at Universal compare to the princess shows at Hollywood Studios, from a quality perspective, but there's a part of me that thinks even that's giving them too much credit.

I'm really not trying to crap on Universal because they are good parks, above the overwhelming majority of what's out there. But it's the chill/laid back thing that just really feels wrong to me, as the average day at Universal feels a lot more like Six Flags or BG than a day at Disney, and that's to say, much more go go go do do do and a lot fewer roses to smell.

 

[Smugpugmug]

And gosh Safari is a hard one since you can be on the attraction for a while. It's so frustrating when you're seeing/experiencing that happen. We got so annoyed with our experience at Navi afterwards we went to Nomads for ...maybe that's Disney's plan all along get money out of me one way or another

Seeing that crap does psychologically make you want to buy Genie+ lol. I can't do Safari standby ever again especially since none of that queue is in the shade.

 

[sipnride]

Seeing that crap does psychologically make you want to buy Genie+ lol. I can't do Safari standby ever again especially since none of that queue is in the shade.

The entire queue is covered:

Not that I want to stand in that steam bath.

 

[Smugpugmug]

The entire queue is covered:

Not that I want to stand in that steam bath.

There is an entire outdoor portion that isn't covered. I think that's the extended queue and that's where I waited. It was pretty dang bad.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But it's the chill/laid back thing that just really feels wrong to me, as the average day at Universal feels a lot more like Six Flags or BG than a day at Disney, and that's to say, much more go go go do do do and a lot fewer roses to smell.

Wow that's all I can say. I told my husband all of what you've said and he's giving me the side eye so hard lol. I mean that playfully but yeah what you're saying is like alien talk really because with Disney we go go go because we want to make the most of it although as time goes on like I said in previous comments we don't feel like we have to get certain rides in.

I don't know why you're trying so hard with Universal. Like I said to the other poster why are you going? You aren't obligated to, just stick with Disney. There's really no reason to feel like you need to go numerous times to a place you really don't seem to enjoy. It's one of the reasons I said we would consider a Universal only trip so seems to be you could just omit Universal for a while and keep with your happy place. I say that seriously though, if you're at the level of comparing it to Six Flags or Busch Gardens it ain't the park for you...and that's perfectly okay

It does irk me when people say things like "there's nothing to do" or "I can get Universal done in a few hours" because that's just based on what someone's interests are.

Whether you find some show weak is your opinion but it doesn't mean it isn't something to do. I don't like most of the shows at Disney. I never did Voyage of the Little Mermaid, have zero interest in it, we're not parade people at all, I'm not into character meet and greets. But none of these things take away what someone has an option for and if you want to talk about lines boy meet and greets you'll have those.

Universal has it's issues just like Disney but it doesn't make for much of a conversation when someone lists all that they want to do at one place and then exclaim there's nothing to do at the other. Both parks offer a variety of things for guests to do, what each guest ends up doing/watching/seeing is up to them. I think IOA is stronger overall than Studios but there's still stuff to be had at both.

If anything I've been planning less and less at Disney parks but just enjoying everything more easily.

But that's your perspective having done Disney enough, it's a fair perspective but not the same as what a few of us have been talking about. I can skip quite a lot of things at Disney but only because I've been enough times that it's NBD if I don't get on a ride. The same can't be said for someone who is less familiar or hasn't been before. Right now those people need to know they have to get a park reservation just to get inside a Disney park!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Seeing that crap does psychologically make you want to buy Genie+ lol. I can't do Safari standby ever again especially since none of that queue is in the shade.

I like Safari but I'm inclined to agree with you, it gets high waits and it's not really fun waiting, it gets hot real fast.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I like Safari but I'm inclined to agree with you, it gets high waits and it's not really fun waiting, it gets hot real fast.

It's not even just Safari. Genie+ has obliterated the standby lines for certain rides where the wait is torture without it. ILL too as Flight of Passage is miserable in the standby line. Even with the ILL I have waited 20-25 minutes.