WDiW to spend 15 million dollars on Disney Transportation

[Aintdisablast]

The only comment I care to make in this thread deals entirely with freeloader abuse.

1: On Tuesday we were at DTD, Market Place, mid morning. The parking lot was very full, cars were circling, waiting for someone to leave. We parked at the rear of the lot. When we got to Market Place, there was virtually no one there. Who owned all the cars ?

2: We struck up a conversation with a family on the boat back to WL. They were locals, visiting for the day. They weren't visiting parks, they were simply resort hopping, looking at all the decor. He simply drove to WL, told guard they were going to eat at Whispering Canyon, then simply took the boat over to CS and did the mono loop. Next they were driving over to Coronado.

Now, will all these additional people spend SOME money while they are there ? Obviousely some will,some won't. But they are still taking seats away from people who paid to stay on property.

I'm sure one of the factors Disney uses to determine how many buses & boats to operate each day is the known occupancy level of all the resorts. They have no way of knowing how many freeloaders will show up.

 

[raidermatt]

They have no way of knowing how many freeloaders will show up.

Its not a significant number, and there has still been no reason given for this prohibiting Disney from enhancing/expanding transportation, so it really doesn't matter. However, I have to say that if Disney has no clue what this population is more or less on a day to day basis, then either A, its too small for them to care about, or B, their ability to use their experience to understand crowd trends is grossly overstated.

However that is irrelevant. It’s in the past and now and that’s done. The question is about Disney's current transportation needs, and what can and should be done to service the resort.

You are absolutely correct about this. However, the core of our disagreement is over what exactly are the needs of Disney's transportation system.

You believe the current system is efficient, and that satisfies the needs of the system.

The counterpoint is that it's not as efficient as you say, but more importantly, that's only one of the purposes the system should be fulfilling.

If you view efficiency as the end of the line, then we'll never get any further than your statement that WDW does not have a transportation problem.

We have not created an "imaginary" problem, as you say. Its simply a matter of looking beyond what is actually in front of us, and looking at what could be, and what it could mean. Call it a problem, or call it an opportunity, I don't really care. The point is, its very real.

Hey I'm all for expanding the transportation to be more attraction oriented and cutting edge. Let them establish a foundation and earmark the operating income for far greater improvements.

Transportation is an integral part of the Show every guest experiences everyday. I'll grant that there are some other very important improvements needed, but for the most part, what's actually being done isn't sucking all that much capital when viewed in the context of the overall size and scope of the resort.

True, improving/enhancing WDW's transportation would take a significant investment, but it would certainly be done in phases, and has to be viewed in comparison to other investments the company is making, not just what's done at WDW. Given the importance that WDW has to the company, and its continued potential, something as important as its transportation system should be a priority.

The unfortunate thing is that the system has not kept up with the resort in the way that we are discussing, so there would need to be some "catch-up" investment.

 

[Aintdisablast]

Its not a significant number, and there has still been no reason given for this prohibiting Disney from enhancing/expanding transportation, so it really doesn't matter. However, I have to say that if Disney has no clue what this population is more or less on a day to day basis, then either A, its too small for them to care about, or B, their ability to use their experience to understand crowd trends is grossly overstated.

I believe the number of freeloaders is much larger then you do, but simply have to agree to disagree on that point because in both cases, it's just our opinion with no facts to back it up.

Freeloaders probably don't affect resorts like Pop and AS, but just talk to people at SSR, they are very dissatisfied. But regardless of the resort, anytime a resort guest is denied a seat or even a SRO position on a bus,boat or mono because of a free loader, then one freeloader is one too many.

As for your last two points:

A: big or small, Disney doesn't care because they haven't seen dissatisfied guest stop buying SSR, buying AP's, buying DDE, booking free food trips, selling out MVMCP, buying 5.4 billion in Pooh plush,etc,etc....

B: See A.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

Your definition of freeloader appears to include people who are shopping and dining in WDW as well as touring the resorts but who are not staying on property. As long as the "freeloader" is holding a valid multiday park pass they are entitled to use the transportation to gawk at the various holiday displays. Disney WANTs these people to come into the properties because they might dine and shop during a slow season while they are sightseeing.

 

[Aintdisablast]

My definition of a freeloader is anyone who knowingly games the system without regard for the inconvienance to others.

If the resort hopping family caused a resort-staying family to remain on the pier until the next boat arrived, then I don't care what park media they may happen to own or what their dinning plans may be, they are still freeloaders.

Maybe WDW needs to go to two lines at each bus/pier stop. Line one enters first, showing resort key. Second line is for non resort guests. They get to board based on space availible.

 

[TSR6]

The only comment I care to make in this thread deals entirely with freeloader abuse.

1: On Tuesday we were at DTD, Market Place, mid morning. The parking lot was very full, cars were circling, waiting for someone to leave. We parked at the rear of the lot. When we got to Market Place, there was virtually no one there. Who owned all the cars ?

A & B lot always fill up fast. If it was just this past week tuesday, then there was no chance in hell in parking there, if you excuse my french. The Market Place parking lot is the LAST place I want to be anytime within the past week... all the way up to Christmas.

Now...

I find it RATHER amusing that there are people waiting at the DTD bus stops at 9 or 10:00 am. Where did they come from? Where are they going?

I'll give you the answer... They are coming from their cars, which they parked right by the bus stop ( funny how those spots fill up first! ) and they are going to the parks. I'm at DTD in the morning quite often, and it's funny how this trend works.

 

[YoHo]

My definition of a freeloader is anyone who knowingly games the system without regard for the inconvienance to others.

If the resort hopping family caused a resort-staying family to remain on the pier until the next boat arrived, then I don't care what park media they may happen to own or what their dinning plans may be, they are still freeloaders.

Maybe WDW needs to go to two lines at each bus/pier stop. Line one enters first, showing resort key. Second line is for non resort guests. They get to board based on space availible.

Your definition of Freeloader is incorrect. If I have purchased a Parkhopper ticket to Disneyworld, then I have purchased the right to use the transportation. It doesn't matter where I'm going or what I'm going to do when I get there, I have the exact same rights as you do to use it, whether I'm staying on property or not.

This is by definition of Disney's ticket media.

 

[TSR6]

Resort Guests have both Priority and Unlimited Transportation access.

Park Hopping Guests may use Transportation between the Parks, Water Parks, DTD, and the TTC.

They don't really enforce this though. I rarely hear about it being enforced, but it can be if Disney were to choose to.

 

[raidermatt]

My definition of a freeloader is anyone who knowingly games the system without regard for the inconvienance to others.

That's all well and good. From a personal pov, I don't really disagree with the value judgement implied in your statement, though I'm not sure I'd use the term freeloader.

But that doesn't matter. That type of "freeloading" isn't relevant to the discussion regarding WDW's ability to enhance/expand its transportation system.

 

[Aintdisablast]

Resort Guests have both Priority and Unlimited Transportation access.

Park Hopping Guests may use Transportation between the Parks, Water Parks, DTD, and the TTC.

They don't really enforce this though. I rarely hear about it being enforced, but it can be if Disney were to choose to.

Thank you. This is what I thought the rules were but couldn't find any documentation to verify it.

 

[Aintdisablast]

That's all well and good. From a personal pov, I don't really disagree with the value judgement implied in your statement, though I'm not sure I'd use the term freeloader.

But that doesn't matter. That type of "freeloading" isn't relevant to the discussion regarding WDW's ability to enhance/expand its transportation system.

I tried terms other then "freeloader" , but all that showed up in my posts were ***** .

As for its relevance to the OT ..... since when was that ever important to a discussion on this board ?

 

[YoHo]

Thank you. This is what I thought the rules were but couldn't find any documentation to verify it.

Until I see documented proof, I wouldn't believe it. the last parkhopper I bought said I had use of all WDW transportation with no restrictions at all. For instance, as an offsite guest, I can schedule a dinner at any of the resort resturants. Can I not use a bus boat or monorail to get to that resturant?

I sure as heck can. Unless it's a very new rule.

 

[seashoreCM]

RE: Freeloaders.

(ten years later)

Him: Remember on our first date when we went to Disney World and discovered we didn't have money to get into the park and instead we rode around on the buses and looked at the holiday decorations? What was that resort with the big yo-yo and the big Rubiks cube?

Her: You mean Pop Century? There was this huge gift shop and cafeteria and I didn't even have enough money to buy one of those Disney pins. I really liked the display of old time stuff like cameras you put film in, and typewriters.

Him: What do you say, we stay there for our wedding anniversary Disney trip. The kids will have a wonderful time, no having to pack up the car and fight all that traffic from the Motel Six.

Her: Let's do it. (picking up cell phone) Whats the reservation number? 407-WDISNEY? Would you rather book the resort with the animals wandering out back, or would you prefer the Hawaiian theme and all those tiki torches?

(fast forward a couple of months)

Him: (in rental car looking for space at Polynesian) Where did all those cars come from? I thought two weeks before Thanksgiving wasn't such a busy time of year.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

Without freeloaders, there would be fewer buses going to Saratoga Springs and the chances of standing room only would be just as great.

 

[Aintdisablast]

RE: Freeloaders.

(ten years later)

Him: Remember on our first date when we went to Disney World and discovered we didn't have money to get into the park and instead we rode around on the buses and looked at the holiday decorations? What was that resort with the big yo-yo and the big Rubiks cube?

Her: You mean Pop Century? There was this huge gift shop and cafeteria and I didn't even have enough money to buy one of those Disney pins. I really liked the display of old time stuff like cameras you put film in, and typewriters.

Him: What do you say, we stay there for our wedding anniversary Disney trip. The kids will have a wonderful time, no having to pack up the car and fight all that traffic from the Motel Six.

Her: Let's do it. (picking up cell phone) Whats the reservation number? 407-WDISNEY? Would you rather book the resort with the animals wandering out back, or would you prefer the Hawaiian theme and all those tiki torches?

(fast forward a couple of months)

Him: (in rental car looking for space at Polynesian) Where did all those cars come from? I thought two weeks before Thanksgiving wasn't such a busy time of year.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

Without freeloaders, there would be fewer buses going to Saratoga Springs and the chances of standing room only would be just as great.

Sorry, but it's unbelievable fantasy such as this that has Disney FA in the perdictament it's in now.

Just kidding.

But while I'm sure your example actually occurs from time-to-time, it definitely is not the norm for my definition of a freeloader.

Why did BC/SAB have to go to wrist bands ? There's a terabyte of posts on the Dis boards concerning resort pool abuse by locals. More and more people are looking for something for nothing. A property the size of WDW just makes it easier and since Disney is chosing to turn a blind eye to the abuse until there is enough of an outcry from dissatisfied guest, ie BC wrist bands or Cal Grills check inprocess, it just emboldens them to game the system even more without fear of rebuke or retribution

But enough about freeloaders. Disney already has the next generation of transportation in R+D now. It will be truely amazing if they can just fix one clitch in the system: Everytime they disconnect the Magic Carpet from the spinner, it hits the ground. But I'm certain that with the testing that goes on almost non-stop, seven days-a-week, the problem will soon be resolved.

 

[YoHo]

Hmmm, I wonder why Disney was able to allow pool hoping for 25+ years and it was only suddenly with Storm-along bay that it became an issue.

 

[Aintdisablast]

Hmmm, I wonder why Disney was able to allow pool hoping for 25+ years and it was only suddenly with Storm-along bay that it became an issue.

Guess you never visited SAB a year or so prior to the wristbands.

 

[YoHo]

No, I understand physically what happened. my question is why was it not an issue before?

 

[Aintdisablast]

Combination of DVC and locals abusing the pool.

When it was just the local abuse, there was still capacity for paying guests to enjoy it. Add in DVC resort plus the priviledge of hopping and the pool was overwelmed.

WDW banned DVC members from pool hopping to SAB but they couldn't stop there because the local use of SAB was a widely known abuse. Disney couldn't very well stop DVC members from using SAB without addressing the abuse by locals. Wristbands seem to have solved the problem.

 

[TSR6]

Until I see documented proof, I wouldn't believe it. the last parkhopper I bought said I had use of all WDW transportation with no restrictions at all. For instance, as an offsite guest, I can schedule a dinner at any of the resort resturants. Can I not use a bus boat or monorail to get to that resturant?

I sure as heck can. Unless it's a very new rule.

YoHo - You can park at the resorts if you have a dining reservation, but unless you are a resort guest - or have a park hopping ticket, Disney does reserve the right to ask you to not ride the bus.

Will they? Probably not, because they do want you to go somewhere and spend money, but if push came to shove, don't act surprised if it happens.

They even have temporary parking passes for the non-resort guests who have dining reservations at the resorts. They usually are set to expire after a couple hours. Why? So that people cannot park at (insert resort name) and then go over to Magic Kingdom for the whole day.

 

[YoHo]

YoHo - You can park at the resorts if you have a dining reservation, but unless you are a resort guest - or have a park hopping ticket, Disney does reserve the right to ask you to not ride the bus.

This contradicts your previous statement, hense our confusion.

And Aintdisablast, Last I checked, The DVC places had their own pools. So what you're really saying is that Disney didn't create pools at the DVC resorts good enough to keep the customers happy. The customers had different expectations that weren't fullfilled. And now instead of fixing the pools, they're restricting a 25 year old tradition.

I'd like to see some stats on locals using the pools. WDW isn't exactly in the middle of a bustling suburb. It takes some work to get there.