WDiW to spend 15 million dollars on Disney Transportation

[CarnotaurDad]

Next on the list:

Who exactly is paying for the giant gingerbread house in the Grand Floridian?

 

[rantnnravin]

Next on the list:

Who exactly is paying for the giant gingerbread house in the Grand Floridian?

it doesn't really matter. there's not going to be a gingerbread house at the GF next year
--due to all the freeloaders going there to look at it.

 

[manning]

round 11......ding!

 

[Peter Pirate]

Cristin, you jump in just to call someone stupid? Yikes. This isn't someplace else, is it? No, no, of course not. If this were someplace else then it wouldn't be here and I wouldn't be there.

Yes Mr. Kidds, rum be a bought that night and the lady...Well, just she wasn't old at all and Mrs. Pirate didn't mind that I stayed behind to cavort with my DIS geek friends.

 

[cristen]

Peter,

I didn't call Crusader stupid, I called what he was arguing stupid. And it is.

With this thread being as big as it is and all the possibilities where it could go, all the things we could be talking about on how to make the transportation better at WDW, where the real problems lie (although we have done it far too many times in my opinion), and he picks one line out of Matt's post, and turns it into something that it is not.

When he knows that what he is arguing is absurd and yet continues with it. I want to know what he thinks the percentage is on people riding around for free, and if it is enough to actually argue in the bigger picture of WDW's transportation problem.


I don't believe I have ever called someone stupid, other than myself. If I have it was kidding around with people who know that I am kidding around. I am not that mean and besides yoho doesn't care.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Yes Mr. Kidds, rum be a bought that night and the lady...Well, just she wasn't old at all and Mrs. Pirate didn't mind that I stayed behind to cavort with my DIS geek friends.

Aye, my pirate friend, the rum goes without saying. Oh, and I wasn't implying your lady was an old Lady, if that be what you thought. I was referring to the ladies who found joy in the busride to nowhere. My bad, I just assumed they were old (and off their rocker, if ye knows what I mean ). Then again, maybe they just had a little Captain in 'em as well. Hey, that might be the best way to improve the busses at WDW. Every ride is taken with Captain Morgan. That'd sure make the ride a lot more palatable .

 

[Peter Pirate]

Cristin, it seems a fine line, IMO, but I'm no moderator so what do I know.

Kidds, I read no offense into what you said and truth be known the two Jospehines weren't spring chickens any more than I be a young lad!

 

[crusader]

When he knows that what he is arguing is absurd and yet continues with it. I want to know what he thinks the percentage is on people riding around for free, and if it is enough to actually argue in the bigger picture of WDW's transportation problem.

Yeah. I'm absurd. You on the other hand continue to demonstrate you have nothing to contribute.

Try to exercise civility when you visit over here.

The answer to your question is 100%.

btw - disney doesn't have a transportation problem. Please provide your basis for this statement.

Rather than make up the reasons which seems to be a habitual disposition for many, I'll cut to the chase.

http://www.planning.nps.gov/document/Report on urban visitor transportation services.pdf

One privately run transportation system that is of particular interest is that of Disney World. This is in part because of the sheer scale of its operations.

Disney World complex hosted 14 million visitors in 2002, only slightly less than the entire Washington metropolitan area; it includes within its boundaries four theme parks, two water parks, 18 themed resort hotels, and numerous restaurants, retail shops, entertainment venues, and other amenities. Moving visitors amongst these sites is a vast undertaking, with Disney’s transportation division employing about 1200 people. Disney is also well-known for its visitor services and attention to detail, making the system of interest for research on best practices in visitor transportation.

Designs for the original components of Disney World’s transportation system were developed by Walt Disney himself; its monorail system and a network of ferryboats were part of a goal of allowing visitors to leave their cars parked throughout their stay. As the complex expanded in the 1980s, it became necessary to add a more conventional bus network to allow visitors to reach the new attractions, as expanding the monorail system was considered prohibitively expensive. Currently, the system comprises 263 buses, 12 ferryboats, and a 12-train monorail system.

The “Magic Kingdom” area of the complex is accessible only by Disney transportation, so all of its visitors use the system in some way. At the other parks and attractions, visitors are also permitted to use their own cars to get around, but in keeping with Mr. Disney’s philosophy, the company makes strong efforts to encourage visitors to use the transportation system. In practical terms, this means providing transportation services that are frequent, easy to use, and free of charge ........................................


The private transportation system at Disney World, while undoubtedly incorporating some of that company’s “magic,” is actually a good example of getting the essentials right: guests are strongly encouraged not to drive, and this exhortation is matched by service that is frequent, convenient, and free of charge. The transportation options also include elements of novelty and fun, and informational materials and staff contact are used to make visitors aware of their options. Disney also actively solicits feedback from visitors and ensures that its services are adjusted in response.

So yes, Disney's urban transportation system, while private, is heavily assessed in relation to other metropolitan regions when measuring the efficiency and cost effectiveness of visitor transit alternatives and is considered to be providing a free service.


On the other hand, I do believe we should explore the more blatant discriminatory issue which appears to have cropped up on the last 4-5 pages.

- Since when did Walt Disney World become a gated community where only spenders are welcome and apparently are the sole individuals roaming the property?

- Since when were freeloader, degenerate, crazy, insane and inconsequential antonyms for spender?

 

[DancingBear]

....is considered to be providing a free service.

That's a pretty simplistic statement. You're talking about a private system on private property which only transports people within the property. It's certainly not free, for example, to the Swan & Dolphin operators, or to DVC owners. Disney advertises "free" transportation as being a benefit of its packages and such, so they don't consider it to be a free benefit to the public.

I note that the Reedy Creek Improvement District does not operate any transit services, but "encourages landowners and business to provide transit services, including watercraft, monorail, buses and/or other modes of transportation...."

http://www.rcid.org/uploads/05 transpols.pdf

On the other hand, I do believe we should explore the more blatant discriminatory issue which appears to have cropped up on the last 4-5 pages.

- Since when did Walt Disney World become a gated community where only spenders are welcome and apparently are the sole individuals roaming the property?

- Since when were freeloader, degenerate, crazy, insane and inconsequential antonyms for spender?

It's not an entirely gated community, but it is a private profit-making operation. What are you arguing here, exactly? Are freeloaders a constitutionally-protected class?

 

[crusader]

You're talking about a private system on private property which only transports people within the property.

It's a publicly traded corporation. It's not privately held. It's private in terms of the sector, not the right to discriminate on property.

What are you arguing here, exactly?

That profit making establishments design any number of initiatives to showcase their product.

Disney's transportation system is the best example of how versatile a sales initiative can be. Not only does the company market the system as an entitlement to encourage the guest to book an on-site stay, they now utilize the system to contain the customer from the moment they arrive at the airport. They also operate it as a complimentary attraction in and of itself, by picking anyone up along the Downtown District to bring them onto their property and using it to give them a sample of the experience they provide.

Walt Disney World never mandated that in order to "be our guest" you needed to produce a snowglobe as some form of I.D. to get on the monorail or explore/visit their establishment beyond the parks.

Choosing not to buy their product after the presentation certainly doesn't define anyone as a freeloader. And 'buying something" even a trinket never was and never will be a mandate to be on the premises.

 

[DancingBear]

It's a publicly traded corporation. It's not privately held. It's private in terms of the sector, not the right to discriminate on property.

Huh? I said it's private property, which is true whether it's owned by The Walt Disney Company or Mr. and Mrs. John Q. Public.

Are you arguing that Disney would not legally be permitted to "discriminate" between the "paying" and "non-paying" guests?

 

[DancingBear]

They also operate it as a complimentary attraction in and of itself, by picking anyone up along the Downtown District to bring them onto their property and using it to give them a sample of the experience they provide.

Are you seriously taking the position that bus service was created to take folks from Downtown Disney to the resorts and parks, and not the reverse?

 

[crusader]

They can't discriminate in the form of denying someone the right to walk into any of their sales establishments or explore the lobby and other resort access areas open to the general public unless they buy something.

 

[crusader]

Are you seriously taking the position that bus service was created to take folks from Downtown Disney to the resorts and parks, and not the reverse?

This has nothing to do with where all the busses go. I'm talking about the transportation system functioning as a sales initiative by bringing non-resort guests on-site.

 

[DancingBear]

They can't discriminate in the form of denying someone the right to walk into any of their sales establishments or explore the lobby and other resort access areas open to the general public unless they buy something.

Sure they can. They could put gates up around all of Downtown Disney and charge admission if they wanted to. Or they could restrict admission to the Wilderness Lodge Lobby to resort guests and those with dining reservations if they wanted to.

 

[DancingBear]

This has nothing to do with where all the busses go. I'm talking about the transportation system functioning as a sales initiative by bringing non-resort guests on-site.

And I'm talking about the fact that the transportation system is primarily designed to move guests of the resort (including MK day guests and such) around from one place to another, not to bring non-resort guests on-site. The only place you can even claim this happens is the buses originating at Downtown Disney.

 

[airlarry!]

Designs for the original components of Disney World’s transportation system were developed by Walt Disney himself; its monorail system and a network of ferryboats were part of a goal of allowing visitors to leave their cars parked throughout their stay. As the complex expanded in the 1980s, it became necessary to add a more conventional bus network to allow visitors to reach the new attractions, as expanding the monorail system was considered prohibitively expensive. Currently, the system comprises 263 buses, 12 ferryboats, and a 12-train monorail system.

M. Crusader:

You need to re-read the section you cited in your favor, as it does not support you. The report says it was 'necessary' to add bus service to reach the newly developed areas, but conveniently glosses over the 'why' that happened.

In other words, this glowing report does not detail the mistakes made in deviating from the original plan. Disney proved in its earliest phase at WDW that it could build an all inclusive resort wholly non-dependent on motor vehicle transportation by the guest.

And then it went out a screwed it up. Now, the report says monorail expansion is "considered" prohibitively expensive. Who did the considering? Disney? Of course, they will argue now it is too expensive, because it needed $5.2b to buy Fox Family.

Again, despite the mistakes made in transportation, with a little hard work and creativity, it could be fixed. Might not make the "I go to WDW to ride a bus from AK to Fort Wilderness" crowd very happy, but it can be done.

P.S. Its nice to see the sharp dagger wielded by DB pointed somebody else's way. Can we end this little charade that the fact that a few freeloaders are abusing the system has anything to do with whether Disney should fix the transportation mess?

 

[crusader]

Sure it services the entire parks and resorts enterprise from the resort guest to the day-tripper to the spectator to the convention goer to the wedding attendee to the local. Not to mention how many busses marked "Special" or "VIP Cast Member" are operating.

I don't believe it was ever primarily designed for the resort guest.

 

[crusader]

Alright sir airness -

I yield.

In other words, this glowing report does not detail the mistakes made in deviating from the original plan. Disney proved in its earliest phase at WDW that it could build an all inclusive resort wholly non-dependent on motor vehicle transportation by the guest.

No it doesn't. However, the original plan for Epcot was only designed to commute 20,000 to/from the residential districts and utilized a central parking hub with a contained entertainment complex where the visitors primarily walked around. The monorail serviced back and forth to the MK area.

Hey I'm all for expanding the transportation to be more attraction oriented and cutting edge. Let them establish a foundation and earmark the operating income for far greater improvements.

 

[peter11435]

M. Crusader:

You need to re-read the section you cited in your favor, as it does not support you. The report says it was 'necessary' to add bus service to reach the newly developed areas, but conveniently glosses over the 'why' that happened.

In other words, this glowing report does not detail the mistakes made in deviating from the original plan. Disney proved in its earliest phase at WDW that it could build an all inclusive resort wholly non-dependent on motor vehicle transportation by the guest.

And then it went out a screwed it up. Now, the report says monorail expansion is "considered" prohibitively expensive. Who did the considering? Disney? Of course, they will argue now it is too expensive, because it needed $5.2b to buy Fox Family.

Again, despite the mistakes made in transportation, with a little hard work and creativity, it could be fixed. Might not make the "I go to WDW to ride a bus from AK to Fort Wilderness" crowd very happy, but it can be done.

P.S. Its nice to see the sharp dagger wielded by DB pointed somebody else's way. Can we end this little charade that the fact that a few freeloaders are abusing the system has anything to do with whether Disney should fix the transportation mess?

Obviously Disney made mistakes in their planning of WDW’s layout. As I said earlier the resort has been built in a very monorail un-friendly way. However that is irrelevant. It’s in the past and now and that’s done. The question is about Disney's current transportation needs, and what can and should be done to service the resort. Now is not the time to question how the resort should have been developed. As some others and I have said the resort (contrary to some posters imaginations) does not have a transportation problem. The fact is that the way WDW is today makes buses the most efficient option currently available. When something better comes along, I sincerely hope Disney will use it, however a fixed rail system is not the answer for WDW.