way way OT

[Schmeck]

My dd is 8th grade and her science teacher has told her that man is evolved from ape and there is no God.
I dont want to get a religious debate started but im wondering if this is normal way science is tought in public school or just the teacher?
Thanks
Wanda

I'm curious - how was it taught to you when you were in school? Are you still living in the same region where you grew up? Did you attend public school? Do you live in a very religious region, or more secular? There are all types of regions in the USA, and each state can set its own curriculum, as can each district sometimes too. I think the evolution theory is played more strongly up north, and less heavily in the south - anyone else agree/disagree?

I am not a Christian, but I believe in god and evolution - who else but god would be able to set such a creative thing into motion?

 

[DevilDuckie]

My dd is 8th grade and her science teacher has told her that man is evolved from ape and there is no God.
I dont want to get a religious debate started but im wondering if this is normal way science is tought in public school or just the teacher?
Thanks
Wanda

Perhaps the appropraite response would be to ask the teacher if she has ever *read* Darwin's work. See, he says that man evolved from a common (and still undiscovered) ancestor with the ape, not directly from the ape. If she's going to insist on teaching the THEORY of evolution as proven fact she ought to get it right.

Fortunately an 8th grader is old enough to understand that she has to be respectful but does not have to believe atheism no matter what class it is preached in.

 

[kokomos]

I'm curious - how was it taught to you when you were in school? Are you still living in the same region where you grew up? Did you attend public school? Do you live in a very religious region, or more secular? There are all types of regions in the USA, and each state can set its own curriculum, as can each district sometimes too. I think the evolution theory is played more strongly up north, and less heavily in the south - anyone else agree/disagree?

I am not a Christian, but I believe in god and evolution - who else but god would be able to set such a creative thing into motion?

She is in the same school I attended and yes we are in the south. ( church on every corner) The teacher is not from this region.
The evolution was taught lightly when I was in school. I dont even remember if there were test on it. Or I just paid no attention which is very likely. I guess the point of this thread was more about the teacher telling the kids there no God. Wanting to know if most science teachers teach that as part of science or if she was just sharing her personal belief.

 

[stelle1966]

Absolutely follow up on this. First with the teacher, then if necessary with the Principal.

She is allowed to be an athiest. She is not allowed to present her beliefs (or non-beliefs) as fact to a bunch of impressionable kids.

But you are??

Happiness is a warm gun.

 

[meandtheguys2]

But you are??

Happiness is a warm gun.

3 posts, and already offensive. Might be a record!

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

My dd is 8th grade and her science teacher has told her that man is evolved from ape and there is no God.
I dont want to get a religious debate started but im wondering if this is normal way science is tought in public school or just the teacher?
Thanks
Wanda

I think this is a good teaching opportunity for you with your daughter. I try and use unfortunate incidents like this to my advantage by asking my kids what they think about what was said, then presenting them with opinions on both sides, and then talking about what we would do next given the teacher's proclivities towards her own brand of theology.

I'd also go to the principal and the superintendant of schools and make sure that teacher is quite thoroughly spanked. She's teaching science, not theology. She is welcome to say "I THINK there is no God" in the privacy of her own home.

If she's teaching the evolutionary theory and kids ask her about god, she needs to say "I am teaching scientific theory, this is different from theology."

I am absolutely fine with my kids being taught scientific theories, because they more they learn, the more they understand the world around them, and with better understanding comes a higher consciousness and better connection with faith. In my opinion, of course...

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Everyone's opinion counts. But they are just that opinions. What that particular teacher said was her opinion.

When a teacher presents his/her opinion he/she MUST preface it as such, as in, "I THINK there is no God", not "There is no God".

Because if you don't make it very clear that it's just some belief you hold, not what you are teaching, then kids may not understand the difference.

Opinions are like rectal apetures, everyone's got them.

Teaching fact to the extent we understand it, not spewing opinion, is what a good teacher does.

 

[Camno's Mama]

Everyone's opinion counts. But they are just that opinions. What that particular teacher said was her opinion. It is important for our children to realize that there are othere beliefs than our own and that they will not always go with our own. If indeed she did state it as a fact she should be reportded. It is important to learn the theory of evolution as well as others. My father always taught us that this was the sign of a well rounded person. He also felt that in order to have a good understanding of others you also needed to understand their beliefs. He was a scientist, a microbiologist to be exact, Catholic and a very wise man. He believed in evolution and creationism. I realize that many think that you can't believe in both but in reality you can. We were taught that the Bible is a book written by people. The story of creation is a way to teach the story of how we were made. 7 days does not necesarily mean 7 exact days. That does not make the story any less valid nor the lessons learned. Maybe just a way to explain it as to be understood. As Jesus taught by using stories in his teachings. For those who say he is a myth that is a false statement. He was a real historical figure. Weather or not you believe he is the son of God and rose from the dead is your own decision. These are the things that were taught to me as a child and how I raise my own children. Now I know I am going to get flack from others for what I have said. To bad. I have stateded my opininons and they are not going to be the same as everyone elses but you are not going to change them after 47 years. It is also how I will teach my children along with teaching them to respect the views of others. However if someone wants to discuss this further these boards are probably not the right place.

I agree with what you said, as a whole. I just think public school teachers are held to different standards when it comes to their students.

I don't think it's an issue that the teacher has her opinions...it's all about how you present them. Clearly, this kid came home with the impression that this teacher says that there is no God. She needed to make it more obvious that it is only her opinion, and everyone is entitled to that. Good teaching moment for her.

That being said, and I am a teacher, I don't believe she should offer her opinion, either way. As a teacher in the public school system, you are taught not to do that. Teach in a private school if that's your thing. Religion is a hot button topic, and it's not the place of the public school system to teach it, one way or another. I have friends who's students have asked during lessons like this, and they choose to answer with the "This is only my opinion..." type of thing.

Teachers have to deal with this stuff all the time. You don't want to be caught out in public drunk by one of your student's parents. You have to watch what you wear around your students. You shouldn't be talking about your unhappy marriage with your students and so on. This is just one of those things.

 

[jenm2878]

My teacher told us that the school cirriculum (sp?) required him to teach the big-bang theory and evolution, but to talk to our parents or pastor if we wanted to ask questions about creationism. He left it at that.

 

[Aliceacc]

3 posts, and already offensive. Might be a record!

Thanks!!

That was pretty much my take on it, and why it didn't merit a reply from me.

 

[Schmeck]

As Jesus taught by using stories in his teachings. For those who say he is a myth that is a false statement. He was a real historical figure.

Is there an written record of Jesus during his lifetime? I mean, actually written when he was alive, not told generations later. I thought that there were a few sketchy ones, but nothing 100% proof?

To the OP, have you talked to anyone else in your child's class, to make sure this is exactly what the teacher said? Sometimes kids get things messed up that way, especially when it's something a bit controversial - can you talk to another parent, or to another child and see what they think?

 

[DisneyBrat]

I thought this poem to fit this situation. Someone sent it to me the other day. Maybe your daughter can read this to her teacher


New Pledge of Allegiance

Since the Pledge of Allegiance and
The Lord's Prayer
Are not allowed in most
Public schools anymore
Because the word 'God' is mentioned....
A student in Arizona wrote this poem

NEW School prayer :

Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.
If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks..
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.
We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's 'inappropriate' to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such 'judgments' do not belong.
We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!
Amen

I am thankful I grew up in a christian home and went to a christian school so I didn't have to worry like kids do now. If it were me I would be at the school board demanding them to reprimand this teacher. I would even be tempted to get the news crew involved... Good luck!

 

[Snow Shoe]

I am a Southern Baptist and yes there is a God!

 

[Schmeck]

I thought this poem to fit this situation. Someone sent it to me the other day. Maybe your daughter can read this to her teacher


New Pledge of Allegiance

Since the Pledge of Allegiance and
The Lord's Prayer
Are not allowed in most
Public schools anymore
Because the word 'God' is mentioned....
A student in Arizona wrote this poem

NEW School prayer :

Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.
If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks..
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.
We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's 'inappropriate' to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such 'judgments' do not belong.
We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!
Amen

I am thankful I grew up in a christian home and went to a christian school so I didn't have to worry like kids do now. If it were me I would be at the school board demanding them to reprimand this teacher. I would even be tempted to get the news crew involved... Good luck!

My children do not worry about being in a public school - because we know that you don't have to be a christian to be a fantastic, spiritual person. And we can be very tolerant too!

Of course, people are free to pray in schools - they just cannot be directed by the teacher to pray in any one form or other. The whole school should not be directed in prayer by any one religion, as that stomps on our freedom of religion. Displays of one religion without equal space to other religions in a public school also follows this example.

I love how the christian propaganda machine works...

 

[tzolkin]

i am christian and that poem is offensive on so many levels.

i've read it before. the irony is how it even admits it's judgmental, but believes that is appropriate.

 

[Schmeck]

I have a question -

When a lot of politicians and/or 'moral majority' types make a big fuss about "being christian", are they relating to any one christian religion, or are they lumping them all together? Is there just one christian religion? I thought that there were many, but when it gets political, it seems there is only one...

I mean, think about the polygamous sect in the news now - aren't they christians?

 

[nicolemomof4cuties]

I would definitly set up a meeting with the principal and the teacher together. I would definitly not want to talk to the teacher alone as I do not want to know what would fly out of my mouth. I DO know that if she had told MY DD that there was no God that she would have had a total cow right there in class. My oldest DD reads her Bible for about 45 minutes a day for FUN. and no I am not kidding. She is a little on the strange side for a 7 year old LOL! But hey, I wish that we all had that kind of zeal for the lord ya' know? Good luck with your DD's situation!

 

[allison443]

i am christian and that poem is offensive on so many levels.

i've read it before. the irony is how it even admits it's judgmental, but believes that is appropriate.

I agree. Do people still really think the public schools should be teaching the Bible and saying the Lord's Prayer?

 

[DevilDuckie]

Is there an written record of Jesus during his lifetime? I mean, actually written when he was alive, not told generations later. I thought that there were a few sketchy ones, but nothing 100% proof?

While the most common materials for writing in that time and place were not particularly durable (making a continuous record spotty) historians and scholars are generally in agreement that the records over the next two centuries are consistent enough to prove that Christ lived, taught, and died as recorded in the Bible. The Christmas story is believed to trace back to His lifetime- not that it is proveable, just that they are fairly certain it was told during His life.

My notes and citations from that particular history class are all in storage or I'd give you a more scholarly account with references. Best I can do with what I've got.

 

[Schmeck]

While the most common materials for writing in that time and place were not particularly durable (making a continuous record spotty) historians and scholars are generally in agreement that the records over the next two centuries are consistent enough to prove that Christ lived, taught, and died as recorded in the Bible. The Christmas story is believed to trace back to His lifetime- not that it is proveable, just that they are fairly certain it was told during His life.

My notes and citations from that particular history class are all in storage or I'd give you a more scholarly account with references. Best I can do with what I've got.

But what I've been able to find shows the exact opposite - that there is no consistency at all about Jesus (which was actually a bit of a common name, so there was not just one man named Jesus at that time) and he doesn't appear in any writings until 2 centuries after he was supposedly alive. Even in the bible, the gospels conflict.