Was this child abandonment?

[Tinijocaro]

http://www.brainchildmag.com/essays/summer2009_kevane.asp

 

[Swan4Me]

This woman is nuts-no way would i let this group of kids to hang for 4 hours at ANY mall.

 

[NHdisneylover]

It sounds like the 12 year olds proved themselves to NOT be responsible enough to babysit at the mall.
I think charging the mother, for a one time incident like this that could have been okay with different (more mature) babysitters is overkill. it is not abandonment--just a bad judgement on the part of the parent (bad in taht she judged the two older girls of being mature enough to handle the responsibility and they were not).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Tough one. I think leaving the 3yo is what sunk her.

The fact that the 2 "sitters" left the kids unaccompanied sunk her. It showed they lacked the proper judgment.

In this situation--the store was concerned and had NO CHOICE but to call the police. This happened in my neighborhood last week. It was a 4yo wandering alone. But when we were unable to find out who her parents were, we had no choice but to call the police. And once that cat is out of the bag--you can't put it back in. When mom was finally found and interviewed, she was arrested for felony child neglect (as they admitted they knew she was lost).

Blaming the store for getting their ages wrong and a number of other excuses she has is simply her trying to blame someone else for what she did. Surely--if Macy's ignored this and then something happened, would mom be suing Macy's?

The Montana Code 46-16-130(3) states that a parent can be charged with this offense if she “knowingly endangers the child’s welfare by violating a duty of care, protection, or support.”

I did look into laws pertaining to children being left alone and it seems Montana has no such law. It doesn't mean that it is a free will state--but that judgment is judged as it was here.

Unfortunate all the way around. Also unfortunate that it has to be turned into a parenting war. (Per the article in the link)

 

[shortbun]

Hmmm. It's the three year old that gives me pause. The girls left their three year old in the care of a seven and nine year old in a mall store. I'm guessing had the mother kept the three year old, attention might not have been given to the group. But, I'd say she knowingly left two 12 yo girls in a mall with three very young children. Her statements regarding babysitting school don't cover four hours in a mall, imho. That class is intended for at home babysitting. Yeah, I'd say this was 'abandonment' and if I saw a 9,7 and 3 yo unattended in a store, I'd call mall police as well. It's good that the mall employees didn't scare the younger children and the 12yo SHOULD have been in trouble because they broke the rules laid down by their mother who also made a huge mistake because she was 'exhausted' by all her pets. Lady, when you have too much to do, it's NOT the kids you get rid of, kwim?

 

[MsLeFever]

I wouldn't call it "abandoment." The kids were dropped off at 1:45 and were going to be picked up at 4. So, closer to 2 hours.

However, I wouldn't assume that 2 12 year old friends would be able to put their mall plans aside to baby sit the others. And saying that the 3 year old had to stay in the stroller - what if she put up a fight on that? I wouldn't do it around here.

 

[Rora]

Hmmm. It's the three year old that gives me pause. The girls left their three year old in the care of a seven and nine year old in a mall store. I'm guessing had the mother kept the three year old, attention might not have been given to the group. But, I'd say she knowingly left two 12 yo girls in a mall with three very young children. Her statements regarding babysitting school don't cover four hours in a mall, imho. That class is intended for at home babysitting. Yeah, I'd say this was 'abandonment' and if I saw a 9,7 and 3 yo unattended in a store, I'd call mall police as well. It's good that the mall employees didn't scare the younger children and the 12yo SHOULD have been in trouble because they broke the rules laid down by their mother who also made a huge mistake because she was 'exhausted' by all her pets. Lady, when you have too much to do, it's NOT the kids you get rid of, kwim?

You said everything I wanted to say!

+1!

 

[pyrxtc]

I think the law over-stepped. Call the parents and tell them that the 12 yr olds weren't minding the younger ones but to call the Mom unfit after this one incident is outrageous.

I, personally, think 12 is too young to have 3 younger children at the mall with them. My DD14 is too much abut herself to even let her have her brothers tag along and expect her to watch them while she and a friend shop. I would let DD and some friends stay alone no problem, maybe even just her and my DS 10 but not with a 3 yr old.

Obviously the law in that town does not believe that 12 is old enough to babysit. Montana does not even have a legal age to be left alone or to be a babysitter. What if these 12 yr old were babysitting and went to the mall on their own with permission ? Would the parents get in trouble for letting 12 yr old babysit ? I was babysitting a lot at age 12. Unless there is a law saying she can't do what she did, I think the law was wrong. I also think the gag order was wrong and she should have gotten all of her friends together to all leave their kids at the mall at the same time to prove she isn't the only one who would do this.

 

[luvmy3]

No, of course this isn't abandonment.

She used poor judgement and I hope she has a great lawyer.
When I was 12 I babysat regularly, and would take the kids (ages 3 and 7) to the local park.

 

[golfgal]

I think the 12 year olds would have been just fine at the mall, but not with the other kids. I don't think it should be "abandonment" but really just stupid parenting. Is this something we really need to waste our court time/money on, not really but I hope this mom learned her lesson.

 

[NHdisneylover]

No, of course this isn't abandonment.

She used poor judgement and I hope she has a great lawyer.
When I was 12 I babysat regularly, and would take the kids (ages 3 and 7) to the local park.

When I was in 5th grade (so 10-11) we lived out in the middle of nowhere so I went to an in town babysitter after school just so I was not spending hours alone and making my own dinner, etc. I regularly took 1-2 of the younger kids (Kindergarten and first grade) and the baby that this woman also watched to the park, or the grocery store, etc.

 

[tlbwriter]

I have a feeling the mother shot herself in the foot. The whole article is excuses and justification (she's exhausted because she has a fish?) and I think that attitude might have come through when she was talking to the police (I know she says they were immediately antagonistic, but we're only hearing her side of the story). I realize I'm not a "normal" parent because I would never even consider letting my 12 yr old babysit, or letting a 12 yr old babysit my child. But it's kind of funny that she goes on about how responsible the older kids are, and how they've taken babysitting classes, and yet they didn't follow the very simple direction to not leave the little kids. So it's pointless to try to convince us that these 12 yr olds were appropriate babysitters, since they obviously were NOT.

ETA - to me, it's not abandonment, but poor judgment. Abandonment would have been leaving the little kids at the mall with no one at all. She simply made a misguided decision to leave them with older kids who were not as mature and responsible as she wanted/needed to believe they were.

 

[bellebud]

The 3yo is what gets me.

I'm sorry the mom has so many pets and so many kids and so many responsibilities and that she needed a break from it all, and I understand she considered this a 'safe' place, but for a 3yo??? I don't know, I think that's a little more than poor judgment.

I wouldn't want to see her arrested or anything, or her children taken away from her (IF this is truly the only thing she's done of this nature), but she needs a little more common sense - and since you can't really teach that, she needs some guidance.

 

[JLTraveling]

Wow. This just makes my head spin. The 12yos made a questionably bad choice--no they probably shouldn't have left the 8yo in charge of the 3yo, but it was a few minutes, inside a store, right next to store employees. They weren't wandering the streets. A bad choice, but not awful, and certainly something that could be corrected.

But the mother? Did absolutely nothing wrong! If there's no age requirement at the mall, it was in the middle of the day, and there's no legal minimum babysitting age--how could she possibly have broken the law? Prosecutors don't get to just make up "rules" to suit themselves.

I'd have fought it all the way to the Supreme Court if that's what it took. We can argue all day about what the law *should* be, but it is what it is, and under the law as it currently exists, she's innocent!

My mom had the opposite experience when I was a baby. We lived near the Navy base in Norfolk, VA. Apparently there was a little "gang" of kids aged 3-5 in our neighborhood. Mom said they ran wild all hours of the day and night, vandalizing, stealing and generally wreaking havoc. She called the police once about 3am, hoping the cops would maybe make them go home. The officer laughed at her and asked, "What do you want me to do, arrest a bunch of 3 year olds?"

That was too extreme in one direction, obviously, but this is way too extreme in the other.

 

[bookgirl]

Not abadonment but poor judgement. Leaving the 12 year olds was fine but she should not have left the younger children. We see it at the library all the time. Mom drops off the older kids (sometimes only 10 or 11) with the little ones then they older kids get on the computer and let the younger ones run by themselves all over the library. We finally put it in our policies that younger children could not be left (under 12 i believe) at all without a parent or adult. And that even kids who were old enough to be dropped could not have younger siblings (under 10) without a parent or adult.

She should have got a slap on the wrist for a first offense, but she also have had better sense.

 

[MUFFYCAT]

Not abadonment but poor judgement. Leaving the 12 year olds was fine but she should not have left the younger children. We see it at the library all the time. Mom drops off the older kids (sometimes only 10 or 11) with the little ones then they older kids get on the computer and let the younger ones run by themselves all over the library. We finally put it in our policies that younger children could not be left (under 12 i believe) at all without a parent or adult. And that even kids who were old enough to be dropped could not have younger siblings (under 10) without a parent or adult.

She should have got a slap on the wrist for a first offense, but she also have had better sense.

 

[tlbwriter]

But the mother? Did absolutely nothing wrong! If there's no age requirement at the mall, it was in the middle of the day, and there's no legal minimum babysitting age--how could she possibly have broken the law? Prosecutors don't get to just make up "rules" to suit themselves.

There doesn't have to be a minimum babysitting age for her to be breaking the law. The law she broke was child endangerment. If she'd left her three-year-old alone at the mall, one could use your argument and say there was no age requirement at the mall and therefore she was in the clear.

 

[indimom]

I find child endangerment to be a stretch in this case, but agree that it was a bad idea from the get-go and not something I would have done. I've never been a fan of parents who just drop their younger kids at public places as a way to get a break or for free "babysitting." We see it a lot here at the library and local pool. Some of these kids are way too young to be just "dropped off." And some (like the mall and pool) are not the safest option even with a preteen sitter.

 

[luvsJack]

She should have kept the 3 year old home and the others would have been fine.

We have a Elks club close by and kids of those ages (minus the 3 year old) get dropped off at the pool all the time. Also the skating rink. She just has to remember that two 12 year old girls are NOT going to keep their mind on the little one. I have seen kids this young at the mall without adults with them (mom may have been IN the mall but she wasn't with the kids)

Dh's aunt own a skating rink in another city. She gets 3 and 4 year olds dropped off all the time--no older siblings in sight!

 

[EMom]

The 12 y.o.s were NOT cutting it as babysitters. They were doing exactly what many 12 y.o.s will do. Acting impulsively. It was more important to them to try on clothes than to stay with a 3 y.o. What if someone had decided that 3 y.o was just the one they wanted and taken off with him/her? Too bad, so sad. And it does happen, as my family is all too familiar with.

The mother was the one who made the mistake in trusting them with a responsibility they were not ready to assume. Sure they agreed to "watch" the little ones if that's what it took to get Mom to agree to let them go to the mall. Duh! They would have agreed to eat raw liver for a month if that got them a ride to the mall.

I cannot tell you how many little kids I have found over the years in malls, etc. who were all alone or in a group of two, wandering around lost. When the "responsible party" was finally located, half the time they didn't even realize the kid was missing or had left them in the care of a slightly older kid who had become distracted by something, thus losing track of the little ones.

The mall is NOT your babysitter. Neither is the library or the bookstore or any number of other places. Until you can trust the caregiver 100%, suck it up and watch your own kids. If your fish is wearing you out, then make the kids play in the back yard where you can at least peek at them every once in a while.

My bet is she got mouthy with the officials about how ridiculous and unreasonable they were being and that set them off. Oh well, I hope she enjoyed her rest...... But it still sounds as if she hasn't learned a thing and it's everyone else's fault but hers.