wanted to share for pet folks

[pickles]

last night, I just started a new chat forum for pet owners and those who want to be pet owners.
it is also a place to list shelter dogs waiting for homes as well as any puppies raised waiting for homes etc..

I am adding some categories for topic discussions, so if you have suggestions for topics, please do let me know

http://1800petfinders.proboards.com/index.cgi

I wanted a spot where rescues and breeders and pet owners alike could come together, share info, stories , bad vet , good vet, health info , boarding suggestions etc.. as well as find homes for those in need.

I hope that is ok to share on this forum

 

[Luvchefmic]

last night, I just started a new chat forum for pet owners and those who want to be pet owners.
it is also a place to list shelter dogs waiting for homes as well as any puppies raised waiting for homes etc..

I am adding some categories for topic discussions, so if you have suggestions for topics, please do let me know

http://1800petfinders.proboards.com/index.cgi

I wanted a spot where rescues and breeders and pet owners alike could come together, share info, stories , bad vet , good vet, health info , boarding suggestions etc.. as well as find homes for those in need.

I hope that is ok to share on this forum

Hey good for you there are also a LOT of groups listed in the yahoo groups forums in case you would like to check there I just checked your boards don't understand this at the bottom of it though

Pet Guardian or Pet Parent = no pets------- Pet Owner means you care enough to tend to your furry friends every need.----- Animal Welfare, not animal rights

if there is any profit that would be a problem with this posting, may want to check with Disboards sticky

 

[pickles]

no profit, it is all free, free to register post and chat..it is just like the disboards forum

and I agree with you animal welfare not animal rights

 

[Luvchefmic]

no profit, it is all free, free to register post and chat..it is just like the disboards forum

and I agree with you animal welfare not animal rights

I just checked your boards don't understand this at the bottom of it thoughPet Guardian or Pet Parent = no pets------- Pet Owner means you care enough to tend to your furry friends every need.----- Animal Welfare, not animal rights


that was on your board I was questioning what I bolded

 

[pickles]

I just checked your boards don't understand this at the bottom of it thoughPet Guardian or Pet Parent = no pets------- Pet Owner means you care enough to tend to your furry friends every need.----- Animal Welfare, not animal rights


that was on your board I was questioning what I bolded

people who promote pet guardian or pet parent phrases are for animal rights(or they dont realize the movement behind those phrases) you are a pet owner full care and responsiblity for your pet, but you dont owe your pet child support and the govt cant tell you what shots to give. what food to feed and if you have w working pet he doesnt earn a salary or vote

 

[Luvchefmic]

Hmmmmm learn something everyday....I consider myself to be NOT a pet owner but like I said learn something everyday, anyway sounds like a nice forum may check it out Good Luck

 

[Mickey's Minion]

last night, I just started a new chat forum for pet owners and those who want to be pet owners.
it is also a place to list shelter dogs waiting for homes as well as any puppies raised waiting for homes etc..

I am adding some categories for topic discussions, so if you have suggestions for topics, please do let me know

http://1800petfinders.proboards.com/index.cgi

I wanted a spot where rescues and breeders and pet owners alike could come together, share info, stories , bad vet , good vet, health info , boarding suggestions etc.. as well as find homes for those in need.

I hope that is ok to share on this forum

Are you going to moderate in order to weed out puppy mills or to screen breeders?

When I first went to your site, I thought it looked great - health screened puppies, retired dogs, etc.

But then I noticed that one of your very first listings is from a "miniature aussie" puppy mill wanting to sell two of their "breeders" (sic) as either pet or as "breeders." No retiring them with a spay/neuter contract - in fact, purposely selling them as "breeders."

They are also selling their puppies as "breeders."

Hope this is not your intent, but it looks like a convenient place for puppy mills to advertise.

 

[pickles]

you may enoy this reading on the subject

http://www.slate.com/id/2096577

this second one, ready page 2 of the pdf file..it gives the reasons behind the movement and why it is bad

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/guardianship_final.pdf

 

[pickles]

Are you going to moderate in order to weed out puppy mills or to screen breeders?

When I first went to your site, I thought it looked great - health screened puppies, retired dogs, etc.

But then I noticed that one of your very first listings is from a "miniature aussie" puppy mill wanting to sell two of their "breeders" (sic) as either pet or as "breeders." No retiring them with a spay/neuter contract - in fact, purposely selling them as "breeders."

Hope this is not your intent, but it looks like a convenient place for puppy mills to advertise.

we are a chat forum..ones mans "puppy mill" is another mans breeder. You do realize that many people use the phrase "puppy mill" and they dont mean a dirty nasty substandard kennel, they mean any breeder who breeds dogs.
The people who will be weeded out are those who cant play nicely in a sandbox. Much like the disboards
It is up to the buyer/adopter to decide who and where they wish to get a dog. I am not any man's judge.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Are you going to moderate in order to weed out puppy mills or to screen breeders?

When I first went to your site, I thought it looked great - health screened puppies, retired dogs, etc.

But then I noticed that one of your very first listings is from a "miniature aussie" puppy mill wanting to sell two of their "breeders" (sic) as either pet or as "breeders." No retiring them with a spay/neuter contract - in fact, purposely selling them as "breeders."

They are also selling their puppies as "breeders."

Hope this is not your intent, but it looks like a convenient place for puppy mills to advertise.

Oh boy OP remember the saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions....I think you may be taking on a BIG issue...I couldn't do it it may turn into a full time job

 

[pickles]

Are you going to moderate in order to weed out puppy mills or to screen breeders?

When I first went to your site, I thought it looked great - health screened puppies, retired dogs, etc.

But then I noticed that one of your very first listings is from a "miniature aussie" puppy mill wanting to sell two of their "breeders" (sic) as either pet or as "breeders." No retiring them with a spay/neuter contract - in fact, purposely selling them as "breeders."

They are also selling their puppies as "breeders."

Hope this is not your intent, but it looks like a convenient place for puppy mills to advertise.

I went back and looked at the ad in question..do those dogs really looked abused and neglected? hardly! Nothing wrong with wanting to raise dogs or to help a shelter dog. again, it is up to the buyer to decide what they want to do. we still live in America

 

[Mickey's Minion]

we are a chat forum..ones mans "puppy mill" is another mans breeder. You do realize that many people use the phrase "puppy mill" and they dont mean a dirty nasty substandard kennel, they mean any breeder who breeds dogs.
The people who will be weeded out are those who cant play nicely in a sandbox. Much like the disboards
It is up to the buyer/adopter to decide who and where they wish to get a dog. I am not any man's judge.

If you are promoting your site on finding "reputable" breeders, which your forum says,

reputable breeders do not sell puppies at one price for pet and a higher price as "breeders."

So, as I thought, this is just another puppy mill distribution forum.

Good luck.

 

[pickles]

If you are promoting your site on finding "reputable" breeders, which your forum says,

reputable breeders do not sell puppies at one price for pet and a higher price as "breeders."

So, as I thought, this is just another puppy mill distribution forum.

Good luck.

So, a puppy mill, to you. is anyone who doesnt sell their pet the way you say is appropriate? I rest my case.
I wont judge, as to me , a puppy mill is about lack of care and not how someone chooses to sell their pet

 

[Luvchefmic]

Personally I (and you didn't ask) would if I had ventured into starting a forum board to exchange ideas, build community outreach, etc wouldn't even allow the selling of any animals.just to avoid the inevitable disagreements AND most importantly to not attach my reputation to anything that might end up being questionable..it might turn into the next Craigs List..that's just me though.

 

[pickles]

the biggest problems we face is the inability of folks in rescues and folks who breed to come together and learn from each other.
I created the forum specifically for finding animals homes whether they are raised or rescued.

It is difficult to encourage breeders to do better if we spend our times bashing them over the head and calling them names. It is hard to gain respect from a community if, as rescuers, we spend our time sounding like extremist.
the fact is many people want puppies of a recognizable breed or size/type as an adult. and while it is wonderful to think they would buy from a show/hobby type breeder, the fact remains, there simply isnt enough show breeders to meet that type demand, nor do they want to.
A good profesional breeder can be a valuable asset and if they do have any deficits, do you really think you will improve their kennel or their dogs lives by calling them names and not associating with them?
Imagine the resource you could have by enlisting the over 4500 profesional breeders in this country to help with rescue and transport of shelter dogs? They have a network in place for transport, leads for new homes etc..they have a wealth of knowledge for care especially when dealing with a large number of dogs(despite what the news wants to tell us, one must keep your dogs healthy in order to produce puppies and be sucessful- a good professional breeder does this)
Both sides have so much to share and learn from each other, it just seems sad to discount one or the other, as in the end it is the animals and the pet owners who suffer most.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

So, a puppy mill, to you. is anyone who doesnt sell their pet the way you say is appropriate? I rest my case.
I wont judge, as to me , a puppy mill is about lack of care and not how someone chooses to sell their pet

Nope, not me. Rescues, dog organizations, and almost everybody who is seriously involved in dogs says the same thing.

Here is how to find a good breeder from the American Humane Association (bolding and highlighting mine to emphasize critical points - although all of them are important.)

THE HUMANE SOCIETY OF THE UNITED STATES
HOW TO FIND A GOOD DOG BREEDER

To avoid these pitfalls and choose a good breeder, look for one who at a minimum:

• Keeps dogs in the home as part of the family—not outside in kennel runs
• Only breeds one or two types of dogs and is knowledgeable about the breeds
• Doesn’t always have puppies available but keeps a list of interested people for the next available litter
• Has dogs who appear happy and healthy and don’t shy away from visitors
• Shows you where the dogs spend their time—in a clean, well-maintained area
• Encourages you to spend time with the puppy’s parents—at a minimum, the pup’s mother—when you visit

• Has a strong relationship with one or more local veterinarians and shows you individual records of veterinary visits for your puppy
• Explains in detail the potential genetic problems inherent to the breed (every breed has a specific genetic predisposition) and provides documentation
• that the puppy’s parents and grandparents have been tested to ensure that they are free of these genetic problems
• Offers guidance for the care and training of your puppy and is available for assistance after you take your puppy home
• Provides references from other families who have purchased puppies
• Feeds high quality “premium” brand pet food
• Is actively involved with local, state, and national clubs that specialize in the specific breed; good breeders may also compete the dogs in conformation trials, obedience trials, or tracking and agility trials
• Encourages multiple visits and wants your entire family to meet the puppy
• Provides you with a written contract and health guarantee and allows plenty of time for you to read it thoroughly; the breeder should not require that
• you use a specific veterinarian

In addition, you’ll want a breeder who requires you to:

• Explain why you want a dog
• Explain who in your family will be responsible for the pup’s daily care, who will attend training classes, where the dog will spend most of his or her time,
• and what “rules” have been decided upon for the puppy—for example, whether the dog will be allowed on furniture
• Provide proof from your landlord or condominium board (if you rent or live in a condominium complex) that you are allowed to have a dog
• Provide a veterinary reference
• Sign a contract that you will spay or neuter the dog unless you will be actively showing him or her (only applies to show-quality dogs)
• Sign a contract stating that you will return the dog to the breeder should you be unable to keep the dog at any point in the dog’s life

If the breeder you’re working with doesn’t meet all of these minimum criteria, walk away. Remember, a dog will likely live for 10 to 20 years, so it’s well worth investing some time to be sure you’re working with a reputable breeder who breeds healthy, happy dogs.

You can find reputable breeders by asking for referrals from your veterinarian or breed rescue groups, contacting local or national breed clubs, or visiting dog shows. Remember, a reputable breeder will never sell dogs through a pet store or in any other way that does not allow interaction with buyers to ensure that the puppies are a good match for the families and that the buyers will provide responsible lifelong homes.

Please don’t ever buy a dog without personally visiting where he or she was born and raised. Take the time now to find the right breeder, and you’ll
be thanking yourself for the rest of your dog’s life.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

Personally I (and you didn't ask) would if I had ventured into starting a forum board to exchange ideas, build community outreach, etc wouldn't even allow the selling of any animals.just to avoid the inevitable disagreements AND most importantly to not attach my reputation to anything that might end up being questionable..it might turn into the next Craigs List..that's just me though.

I am sure the OP doesn't intend to be a puppy mill site cloaked as a well-intentioned forum. I have just seen so many of these sites go downhill like that.

Unscrupulous breeders are smart. They created "registries" such as the CKC to make their puppies look more legit - they can say that the puppies are "registered."

They are very good at making their operations look clean and with healthy dogs.

They also use forums like the OP's to dump their animals as the forum looks legit.

I agree, if the OP wants a forum to recommend good rescues, that is one thing.

But there is a good chance her reputation will be sullied if she allows unmoderated trading of dogs and puppies on the site.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

the biggest problems we face is the inability of folks in rescues and folks who breed to come together and learn from each other.
I created the forum specifically for finding animals homes whether they are raised or rescued.

It is difficult to encourage breeders to do better if we spend our times bashing them over the head and calling them names. It is hard to gain respect from a community if, as rescuers, we spend our time sounding like extremist.
the fact is many people want puppies of a recognizable breed or size/type as an adult. and while it is wonderful to think they would buy from a show/hobby type breeder, the fact remains, there simply isnt enough show breeders to meet that type demand, nor do they want to.
A good profesional breeder can be a valuable asset and if they do have any deficits, do you really think you will improve their kennel or their dogs lives by calling them names and not associating with them?
Imagine the resource you could have by enlisting the over 4500 profesional breeders in this country to help with rescue and transport of shelter dogs? They have a network in place for transport, leads for new homes etc..they have a wealth of knowledge for care especially when dealing with a large number of dogs(despite what the news wants to tell us, one must keep your dogs healthy in order to produce puppies and be sucessful- a good professional breeder does this)
Both sides have so much to share and learn from each other, it just seems sad to discount one or the other, as in the end it is the animals and the pet owners who suffer most.

Never mind. I take it back. It is very clear what your intentions are. You created this forum specifically for puppy mills or as you call them "Professional Breeders." At least you are honest about it.

By the way, there is a very good place for people who breed to come together. It is called National breed groups. You do not need to be a show person to belong to one of these. But by being a member, you pledge to follow the ethics of the breed and pledge to breed for the betterment of the breed and not for profit.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Never mind. I take it back. It is very clear what your intentions are. You created this forum specifically for puppy mills or as you call them "Professional Breeders." At least you are honest about it.

By the way, there is a very good place for people who breed to come together. It is called National breed groups. You do not need to be a show person to belong to one of these. But by being a member, you pledge to follow the ethics of the breed and pledge to breed for the betterment of the breed and not for profit.

Think its time for us to just walk away you think ?

 

[pickles]

for the benefit of pets and pet owners, my intentions are to join together several opposing groups that dont need to be opposing. there can be common ground

However, it is obvious by posts here, my work will be cut out for me.