Wanna buy a Fastpass? It will cost ya $50

[bluejasmine]

So do we think that maybe this will be the end of FP being free? If so that's really sad, with the addition of the Disney Springs Resorts adding FP and now the extra Fp you can buy IF your staying CL which not everyone can afford, what happens to the rest of the ppl struggling to get a FP? I see this summer being horrible...

 

[zbcincy30]

So do we think that maybe this will be the end of FP being free? If so that's really sad, with the addition of the Disney Springs Resorts adding FP and now the extra Fp you can buy IF your staying CL which not everyone can afford, what happens to the rest of the ppl struggling to get a FP? I see this summer being horrible...

I think the Disney Springs is just temporary until they get the new resort/s built and other ones remodeled (Cornado, Caribbean, etc). Seems like Disney is almost always at capacity these days for hotel rooms.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

He [Walt] was a businessman. A businessman with a lovely vision. But if he didn't make money, he wouldn't have had it to expand his business or to keep the doors of Disneyland open.

Remember: Walt structured ticket prices such that people paid more for rides that were in greater demand! This is much more related to that thinking than not.

I still don't know who speculated that wealth was his prime motivation. That doesn't get to the question of whether he'd be ok with charging for FPs. And as much as I admire the way he realized his vision and built his empire, time marches on. This is now a huge public company, beholden to shareholders, etc. etc. They have a profit motive.

As long as they don't cross that magical line between solid market segmentation and losing more customers than they gain by going too far, they're on the right track in my book.

Have you ever watched say a movie/show/book and a character just does something that falls outside of who they are? Most often it happens when a new author/director takes over a series, and they have a character do something that doesn't fit.

Like if Minnie Mouse suddenly started stealing or swearing. If you know her character, those just aren't things she'd do.

Let me say again, I don't know how Walt would react to this proposal. Still, I feel confident in saying Walt DID display specific character traits in his lifetime.

Way back in this thread someone (not me) said, " Walt always wanted the park in general and the rides to be generally affordable and in line with inflation, under Iger they've far outpaced inflation much more than any time in their past."

To which someone else replied, "Source please? I’ve just never heard this."

So I attempted to supply a few Walt quotes that reflected his character and values. Initially, I didn't find the quote I wanted. Here it is. Walt said, "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money."

Here's more:
According to Pat Williams' book, Walt Disney said, “Walt wanted to keep Disneyland affordable and was alarmed when the parking fee went from twenty five cents to fifty cents. That was huge to him. He once said, there will always be a 10 cent cup of coffee at Disneyland." -via keytothekingdombook.com (this 2nd page shows the original Hills brothers coffee menu featuring the cent cup of coffee: http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2015/...-disneyland-menus-from-the-d23-expo-archives/ )

In the early days, Walt always paid his hourly employees first, then the managers. He only paid Roy and himself when there was money left AFTER all his employees were paid. - see keytothekingdombook.com

He also said, "Deeds rather than words express my concept of the role religion should play in everyday life. I have watched constantly that in our movie work the highest moral and spiritual standards are upheld."

So while I can't say what he'd think about FP+, the person who characterized Walt as someone who repeatedly said that he wanted his parks to be inclusive, was accurate.

You are correct that Disneyland rides had different prices, but do you know why?

On the history of Disneyland: "Crowd control was another one of the initial problems. Guests at the most popular rides were subject to long lines, while less appealing attractions remained empty. Visitors had to pay for each ride individually, which further slowed the lines at the popular rides. [back in the day, Americans didn't use credit cards, at each ride they handed over actual cash. It was a disorderly hassle.] As for the problems with money and tickets, Walt decided to sell tickets by a classified letter system. Different tickets entitled the guests to different levels of attractions. This helped to spread the crowds across the entire park. It also eliminated the problem of carrying money to each ride." From "The Creation of Disneyland" by Reece Fischer

Call me radical, but I think we should periodically make some attempt to accurately characterize the creator of WDW when posting on a WDW website.

 

[DisneyGuy]

I'm OK with buying additional fast passes - this will more than likely be necessity at some point in the near future in order to have the trip most of us are used to having. I just hope that it's not always tied to CL rooms because I have no need for CL accommodations - I always stay deluxe, but am not at the resort and in the room that much where I need access to lounge space and extra food. I stay deluxe for location and the resort atmosphere/transportation options and of course, ability to walk to a park or two.

BUT, i'm not going to buy additional fast passes only to get ones for rides like Living the the Land, or Spaceship Earth or something that isn't a headliner so the tiers need to change. Also, I hope to see improvements in the parks in general - those of us who have been going since the 90's probably know that it isn't quite the same experience that it used to be. I LOVE WDW, and visit at least once a year, but some things need to be upgraded - some rides and the monorail system need help. I'd also like to see the return of an electrical parade at MK, maybe a parade at Epcot, more entertainment options and happenings would be nice. A lot has been taken away with little given to replace it. So again, i'm OK with spending more money, but i'd like to see more upgrades park wise as well. Dessert parties, VIP tours, little extra's here and there really don't have a huge impact on most of the guests in the park - but fast passes do.

I am going next month and looking forward to it. I will probably not be back for a year or two because I have no desire to be there with both Toy Story and Star Wars opening - the crowds will be insane - and it's crowded enough now. It will be interesting to see what happens and how guests who aren't willing to pay extra will be affected. I'd be disappointed going to book fast passes only to find out most are already gone due to the 90 day window for other guests....especially if my vacation total was already in the thousands - for the room alone - and i'm staying with Disney.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Have you ever watched say a movie/show/book and a character just does something that falls outside of who they are? Most often it happens when a new author/director takes over a series, and they have a character do something that doesn't fit.

Like if Minnie Mouse suddenly started stealing or swearing. If you know her character, those just aren't things she'd do.

Let me say again, I don't know how Walt would react to this proposal. Still, I feel confident in saying Walt DID display specific character traits in his lifetime.

Way back in this thread someone (not me) said, " Walt always wanted the park in general and the rides to be generally affordable and in line with inflation, under Iger they've far outpaced inflation much more than any time in their past."

To which someone else replied, "Source please? I’ve just never heard this."

So I attempted to supply a few Walt quotes that reflected his character and values. Initially, I didn't find the quote I wanted. Here it is. Walt said, "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money."

Here's more:
According to Pat Williams' book, Walt Disney said, “Walt wanted to keep Disneyland affordable and was alarmed when the parking fee went from twenty five cents to fifty cents. That was huge to him. He once said, there will always be a 10 cent cup of coffee at Disneyland." -via keytothekingdombook.com (this 2nd page shows the original Hills brothers coffee menu featuring the cent cup of coffee: http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2015/...-disneyland-menus-from-the-d23-expo-archives/ )

In the early days, Walt always paid his hourly employees first, then the managers. He only paid Roy and himself when there was money left AFTER all his employees were paid. - see keytothekingdombook.com

He also said, "Deeds rather than words express my concept of the role religion should play in everyday life. I have watched constantly that in our movie work the highest moral and spiritual standards are upheld."

So while I can't say what he'd think about FP+, the person who characterized Walt as someone who repeatedly said that he wanted his parks to be inclusive, was accurate.

You are correct that Disneyland rides had different prices, but do you know why?

On the history of Disneyland: "Crowd control was another one of the initial problems. Guests at the most popular rides were subject to long lines, while less appealing attractions remained empty. Visitors had to pay for each ride individually, which further slowed the lines at the popular rides. [back in the day, Americans didn't use credit cards, at each ride they handed over actual cash. It was a disorderly hassle.] As for the problems with money and tickets, Walt decided to sell tickets by a classified letter system. Different tickets entitled the guests to different levels of attractions. This helped to spread the crowds across the entire park. It also eliminated the problem of carrying money to each ride." From "The Creation of Disneyland" by Reece Fischer

Call me radical, but I think we should periodically make some attempt to accurately characterize the creator of WDW when posting on a WDW website.

I'm not going to opine on "What would Walt think/say". Seems like there's no way to know, and none of those quotes are going to tell us. I'll leave that to others.

 

[Jason2015]

While I can't even imagine being able to stay in CL, I can't see this affecting the rest of us too much. As PPs have said, the pool is probably small enough not to have a huge impact. I'm surprised no one has brought up MP from DLR. (For those who are unfamiliar with it - it is a pay per day $10/person and allows you to book FP from your app as opposed to having to physically pull a FP.) While not the same as this case we are seeing a trend of the pay to play (or at least pay to play more than those who don't.) I also agree with others who are thinking this will expand after the pilot, especially to accommodate Star Wars. I did splurge for the MP and really found a benefit with it, but I couldn't afford to splurge for this, even if it was available to my not-even-close-to-club-level.

Don't disagree on the pay for play but I really enjoyed the Maxpass at DLR. I wouldn't be upset if WDW got rid of FP+ and went to a Maxpass type system.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Also, I hope to see improvements in the parks in general - those of us who have been going since the 90's probably know that it isn't quite the same experience that it used to be. I LOVE WDW, and visit at least once a year, but some things need to be upgraded - some rides and the monorail system need help. I'd also like to see the return of an electrical parade at MK, maybe a parade at Epcot, more entertainment options and happenings would be nice. A lot has been taken away with little given to replace it.

There is a lot on the horizon... might want to check out the first post in this thread: https://www.disboards.com/threads/m...etion-dates-read-post-1-updated-1-11.3475627/

 

[Ronferr80]

Don't disagree on the pay for play but I really enjoyed the Maxpass at DLR. I wouldn't be upset if WDW got rid of FP+ and went to a Maxpass type system.

Haven't been to Disneyland in some time but isn't the maxpass system what Disneyworld already allows you to do from your MDE app on your phone for free?

 

[CT Disney]

You missed out. It was a pretty sweet perk...now gone.

Well darn it all.

I guess I'm going to have to start asking for free stuff all over the place now...how else will I know what I'm missing??

Can I please have a free Mickey head balloon?
Do you mind if I just make myself at home during this lovely dessert party I see you're holding?
Can I please have a free popcorn and Mickey ice cream bar?

Man, I hate it when people think to ask for free stuff and I don't

 

[Jason2015]

Haven't been to Disneyland in some time but isn't the maxpass system what Disneyworld already allows you to do from your MDE app on your phone for free?

Yes and no. The fast passes at DLR are still the paper type of ticket that you get day of at kiosks in the park. The maxpass system allows the customer to avoid the fastpass kiosk and book directly on the phone. You can only book one fastpass at a time and you can only book them once you have entered a park. Once you have scanned into your first fastpass you can book your next fastpass experience. The system does allow you to book a fastpass at either park. I really enjoyed that I didn't have to plan what rides I was riding 60 days ahead of time. It allowed for a more spontaneous trip. Also was able to do 7 pastpass rides before dinner on a busy but not overly crowded day. I would love to see this system at WDW.

 

[Magic_Man]

So do we think that maybe this will be the end of FP being free?

Not a chance. Disney has invested an awful lot in explaining that the FP option is included in your basic admission price. There are literally hundreds of thousands of FPs used each day. No way would they change their entire business model and try to monetize all of that. While it is more or less a "depends on whose ox is being gored" analysis, for the most part, Disney doesn't take things away. Instead they create "add-ons" and make you pay for it. Which is the case here. For example, when they added the hard ticket Early Morning Magic, they didn't take away EMH(a.m.). When they added the hard ticket After Hours event, they did not take away EMH(p.m.). When they created the dessert parties, they did not make the fireworks show exclusively for people who bought a cupcake. This has the earmarks (pun intended) of a limited time (low season) offering where doling out extra FPs to a small subset of people will not upset the offerings that remain available to the masses. I don't see this as the first step down to the gates of Hades.

I'm not going to opine on "What would Walt think/say". Seems like there's no way to know, and none of those quotes are going to tell us. I'll leave that to others.

I know. Right? When people ask: "What would Walt think?", are they asking what a cryogenically frozen Walt would think if he were reanimated today, having slept through the past 50 years? Or are they asking what a 117 year old Walt would think, having lived through the events of the past 50 years? To think that we know what the result of the latter scenario would be is crazy, as if the past 50 years would not have caused his thinking to evolve. And the former scenario is equally pointless.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Well darn it all.

I guess I'm going to have to start asking for free stuff all over the place now...how else will I know what I'm missing??

Man, I hate it when people think to ask for free stuff and I don't

I suppose that's one way of seeing it.

In my experience, many of the little extras that WDW guests sometimes got were often given, rather than requested. I agree that asking often takes something away from the experience, at least the magic.

On the other hand, think about navigating WDW with severe food allergies....If the allergic person doesn't ask, then they don't know which foods are toxic. Suffice it to say, WDW offers a few small extras for those who tell WDW CM's they have severe food allergies, and ask about accommodations. Sometimes you have to ask if you need special accommodations.

I'm also old enough to know that WDW used to have a number of other little known hidden treats. A CM once gave us a special collector card. He told us it was part of a series, and that the way to get more was to ask for them from CM's like him. That was long ago, so I think they are long gone, and we never did ask for more from any CM's. But that's just one example.

In that sense, WDW wasn't all the same for everyone. But in the old days, many of the little extras were free, not paid additions, but they've long been a part of WDW. A little of the fun of WDW was learning those little secrets.

 

[jkh36619]

It doesn't bother me one bit. If someone is willing to pay CL prices and for extra FP's I say go right ahead. The number will be quite small in the grand scheme of FP's. If they offered this on the cheap think about how long the FP line would be.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

It doesn't bother me one bit. If someone is willing to pay CL prices and for extra FP's I say go right ahead. The number will be quite small in the grand scheme of FP's. If they offered this on the cheap think about how long the FP line would be.

I think it remains to be seen if the number will be small or not. If the FPs are going to eat into the total amount of existing FPs, a lot of resort guests are going to miss out on getting any.

 

[bluejasmine]

I agree I don't think ppl understand how many ppl are willing to pay extra, and there is quite a large crowd that stay CL, trying booking a garden view in CL sometime its not always easy...

To me the point is not everyone can afford this and how is it fair to everyone else who spends their hard earned money at WDW? Do they not deserve the same privileges? I hope this test crashes and burns...

 

[anomamatt]

You are correct that Disneyland rides had different prices, but do you know why?

On the history of Disneyland: "Crowd control was another one of the initial problems. Guests at the most popular rides were subject to long lines, while less appealing attractions remained empty. Visitors had to pay for each ride individually, which further slowed the lines at the popular rides. [back in the day, Americans didn't use credit cards, at each ride they handed over actual cash. It was a disorderly hassle.] As for the problems with money and tickets, Walt decided to sell tickets by a classified letter system. Different tickets entitled the guests to different levels of attractions. This helped to spread the crowds across the entire park. It also eliminated the problem of carrying money to each ride." From "The Creation of Disneyland" by Reece Fischer

I really don't like speculating what someone who is dead and none of us knew would think about something 50+ years in the future. That said, what you describe is what is going on with WDW prices. The crowds are inelastic (at least thus far). WDW bumps up prices 2-3x inflation each year and the crowds are not slowing down. Crowds are, IMO, one of the biggest problems with WDW. If they were basing prices on crowds, they have a long way to go (upward) before the crowds will drop off enough that people don't constantly complain about how over-crowded the park is.

 

[anomamatt]

To me the point is not everyone can afford this and how is it fair to everyone else who spends their hard earned money at WDW? Do they not deserve the same privileges?

WDW isn't a non-profit nor run by communists. It doesn't need to be fair. If WDW is functioning properly in a free market, it should not be fair.

Further, not everyone can afford EMM, dessert parties, VIP tours, etc etc. Many people cannot afford to go to Disney at all. I'm sorry, but going to Disney and everyone having the same experience is not a right anyone is born with.

 

[anomamatt]

I think it remains to be seen if the number will be small or not. If the FPs are going to eat into the total amount of existing FPs, a lot of resort guests are going to miss out on getting any.

We don't know if the FPs come from the pool or come from the ether (like anytimes do). But even if every single CL room on property chooses to partake in this for every day of their trip, we are talking about 2% of the total pool. This is NOT going to have a noticeable impact in its current form.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

We don't know if the FPs come from the pool or come from the ether (like anytimes do). And even if every single CL room on property chooses to partake in this, we are talking about 2% of the total pool. This is NOT going to have a noticeable impact in its current form.

We don't know either way. It could definitely have an impact.

 

[anomamatt]

We don't know either way. It could definitely have an impact.

Again, at MOST it's 2% of the resort FP capacity (if EVERY CL guest chooses this option for every single day -- which will not happen). That is the worst case scenario. A 2% change in FP availability will not have a noticeable impact. [If you add in the FP capacity that exists for off-site guests, it's way less than 0.5%.]

Now, if this expands outside of CL (as some have speculated) in the future, that changes things. CL is a tiny fraction of WDW rooms (~2%).