Wanna buy a Fastpass? It will cost ya $50

[twodogs]

Hi. You wrote "...as long as it doesn't negatively impact the visit for those that don't choose to pay it..." and I think that may be what some of us are upset about. The fact is, that if some people are able to pay extra in order to essentially 'skip' the line, doesn't this mean that the rest of us who DONT pay the extra will basically have a line to wait in that is this much longer?

Jumping in here without reading the most recent two pages so hopefully not a duplicate thought...

This already happens. For example, reserved Fireworks viewing via Dessert Party. That area where you stand used to be free for anyone who wanted to spend the time to stake it out. Now that area is no longer available to you UNLESS you pay for the Dessert Party (so you have lost something you previously had). You can stake out another probably equally decent view by sacrificing time, in sitting in that spot for hours before the fireworks, but the original "free" spot is no longer an option without paying for it. You still have a free option to get a good view, it just costs more time.

Paying for FP is essentially the same thing. It used to be free to get the FP. Now some people will pay to get it sooner or more of them. That "free" FP is no longer available to you because someone else bought it. But you can still ride the ride. You now just have to sacrifice TIME, waiting Standby. It is not that the ride is unavailable unless you pay for a FP (at least not yet...although TOT during the holidays with one elevator was approaching this for days at a time). You just have to give more of your time to ride it for "free".

It comes down to: do you want to spend more time or more money, as several OPs have said. I'm sure we'd all love to have it both ways (save time and money). But, Disney is a business, plain and simple. It is not all about making money because you do have to have satisfied customers who will spend their money with you ongoing, to keep your business growing. But prices go up and people (maybe not the same old people, but people) keep coming and filling hotels, and buying MVMCP tickets, etc. Walt is dead and gone, and whatever his ideals were (which we can't truly know), it doesn't really matter to me because the people running "his" company now are making decisions now, based on what they think is the best for the company today. So I guess I don't really understand how what Walt wanted figures into present-day?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

To me the point is not everyone can afford this and how is it fair to everyone else who spends their hard earned money at WDW? Do they not deserve the same privileges? I hope this test crashes and burns...

You could use this same argument to justify hoping WDW "crashes and burns": "not everyone can afford this and how is it fair to everyone else".

As a pp already said very well, no one is entitled to any particular type of vacation "privilege"... or a vacation at all. None of that is "fair" -- it just is. This is a business, not a non-profit. A leisure/luxury item, not a need/necessity.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Ah, more hyperbole and mischaracterization...

Call me crazy, but I think a thread about the park Walt Disney created is the appropriate place to reflect on what he said while he was alive.

Maybe a Walt Disney World website isn't the best place for folks don't want to know, or ever think about Walt Disney World's founder.

 

[KrazeeK120]

To me the point is not everyone can afford this and how is it fair to everyone else who spends their hard earned money at WDW? Do they not deserve the same privileges? I hope this test crashes and burns...

By this logic, shouldn’t Disney World just be free, then? Some people cannot afford to go to Disney. At all. There are people who don’t even make enough money to cover the necessities of daily living, let alone any kind of vacation.

Vacation destinations aren’t set up to be “fair.” They’re businesses trying to make money. As a Disney stockholder, I appreciate this. But the fact is, life isn’t fair. People with money always have and always will be able to get more stuff, experiences, etc. than those with less. It’s just how life is.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Maybe a Walt Disney World website isn't the best place for folks don't want to know, or ever think about Walt Disney World's founder.

Seriously? I must want to think (and dialogue here) about what Walt Disney might have wanted in order to plan a WDW trip using this site? Goodness.

 

[jkh36619]

I agree I don't think ppl understand how many ppl are willing to pay extra, and there is quite a large crowd that stay CL, trying booking a garden view in CL sometime its not always easy...

To me the point is not everyone can afford this and how is it fair to everyone else who spends their hard earned money at WDW? Do they not deserve the same privileges? I hope this test crashes and burns...

I dont know the number of CL rooms. I would have to believe its quite a small percentage of FP users. In the park at every given day you have to consider regular resort guests, AP holder and anyone who purchased a ticket in advance.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Again, at MOST it's 2% of the resort FP capacity (if EVERY CL guest chooses this option for every single day -- which will not happen). That is the worst case scenario. A 2% change in FP availability will not have a noticeable impact. [If you add in the FP capacity that exists for off-site guests, it's way less than 0.5%.]

Now, if this expands outside of CL (as some have speculated) in the future, that changes things. CL is a tiny fraction of WDW rooms (~2%).

I think the other mistake some folks make, is that they assume there is ONE fixed number of FP every day of the year.

But that just can't possibly be the case.

Some days MK is only open 9am to 7pm. Other days it is open from 7am until 3am or later. I've even been in MK when it was open for 24 solid hours!

Many attractions - like the safari- have an easy ability to adjust capacity by adjusting the number of trucks (carts, tracks, boats, etc) that are running at any given time.

I've seen it with my own eyes many times: one side of BTMRR closes, EE adds a train, IaSW adds boats, more characters arrive.MK adds an ew FP attraction! It wouldn't be hard for WDW to add 3% more capacity, especially if they have extra $ to use to pay CM's.

Yet some folks still talk as though there's only ever been a fixed number of FP.

I've long thought, the eventual plan of FP+ was to better distribute guests across the parks. Give a guest a FP, and you give them a reason to linger longer.

Makes sense to me that WDW would want their highest paying customers to linger longest.

Even if that maybe isn't how Walt or Eisner would have set things up ...

 

[Ronferr80]

I agree I don't think ppl understand how many ppl are willing to pay extra, and there is quite a large crowd that stay CL, trying booking a garden view in CL sometime its not always easy...

To me the point is not everyone can afford this and how is it fair to everyone else who spends their hard earned money at WDW? Do they not deserve the same privileges? I hope this test crashes and burns...

There are over 30,000 hotel rooms in Disney World (give or take). Don’t quote me but I believe club rooms are about 900 (maybe less). The reason why it’s so difficult to book Club Level rooms sometimes is because there are not that many. I don’t believe the is will have as big an impact as everyone anticipates but as people say I guess time will tell

Disney or any company has never been about giving anyone the same privileges and that’s not a bad thing. Disney is excellent at having something for everyone!! If it was across the board then there wouldn’t be deluxe, moderate, or value hotels. Doesn’t mean your service is any worse but here are little extras depending on how much someone spends but that doesn’t take away from my families vacation if we decide to stay value. If it was across the board then everyone should be booking fastpasses at 60 days rather then offsite guest booking at 30 but it isn’t and I think that’s ok.
Not everyone can afford the vip desert parties or the VIP tours, or the special holiday tickets, or the early morning magic, list goes on but it doesn’t take away from anyone’s vacation if another family books those experiences.
Disney has something for everyone and extras for people who are willing to splurge but not one thing they have done, and hopefully I’m right about this new fast pass add on, has taken away from a families ability to have an magical vacation at Disney World

 

[anomamatt]

I think the other mistake some folks make, is that they assume there is ONE fixed number of FP every day of the year.

But that just can't possibly be the case.

Some days MK is only open 9am to 7pm. Other days it is open from 7am until 3am or later. I've even been in MK when it was open for 24 solid hours!

For sure the number of park hours changes things. And it could be a lot more complicated than that. We just don't know about the latter (e.g., are there more FPs when the park is 10/10).

For a while, they were dropping day-of FOP FPs (not everyday and this seems to have stopped shortly before Christmas week). So there is clearly capacity for them to add more if they want.

I've long thought, the eventual plan of FP+ was to better distribute guests across the parks. Give a guest a FP, and you give them a reason to linger longer.

Yes, I'm sure FP does both.

Makes sense to me that WDW would want their highest paying customers to linger longest.

Even if that maybe isn't how Walt or Eisner would have set things up ...

Haha. ;-)

 

[GADisneyDad14]

There are around 700ish CL or CL-access rooms. Plus the other categories eligible for for this trial program (Bungalows, Cabins, Swan & Dolphin suites, etc, etc).

 

[LSUmiss]

Have you ever watched say a movie/show/book and a character just does something that falls outside of who they are? Most often it happens when a new author/director takes over a series, and they have a character do something that doesn't fit.

Like if Minnie Mouse suddenly started stealing or swearing. If you know her character, those just aren't things she'd do.

Let me say again, I don't know how Walt would react to this proposal. Still, I feel confident in saying Walt DID display specific character traits in his lifetime.

Way back in this thread someone (not me) said, " Walt always wanted the park in general and the rides to be generally affordable and in line with inflation, under Iger they've far outpaced inflation much more than any time in their past."

To which someone else replied, "Source please? I’ve just never heard this."

So I attempted to supply a few Walt quotes that reflected his character and values. Initially, I didn't find the quote I wanted. Here it is. Walt said, "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money."

Here's more:
According to Pat Williams' book, Walt Disney said, “Walt wanted to keep Disneyland affordable and was alarmed when the parking fee went from twenty five cents to fifty cents. That was huge to him. He once said, there will always be a 10 cent cup of coffee at Disneyland." -via keytothekingdombook.com (this 2nd page shows the original Hills brothers coffee menu featuring the cent cup of coffee: http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2015/...-disneyland-menus-from-the-d23-expo-archives/ )

In the early days, Walt always paid his hourly employees first, then the managers. He only paid Roy and himself when there was money left AFTER all his employees were paid. - see keytothekingdombook.com

He also said, "Deeds rather than words express my concept of the role religion should play in everyday life. I have watched constantly that in our movie work the highest moral and spiritual standards are upheld."

So while I can't say what he'd think about FP+, the person who characterized Walt as someone who repeatedly said that he wanted his parks to be inclusive, was accurate.

You are correct that Disneyland rides had different prices, but do you know why?

On the history of Disneyland: "Crowd control was another one of the initial problems. Guests at the most popular rides were subject to long lines, while less appealing attractions remained empty. Visitors had to pay for each ride individually, which further slowed the lines at the popular rides. [back in the day, Americans didn't use credit cards, at each ride they handed over actual cash. It was a disorderly hassle.] As for the problems with money and tickets, Walt decided to sell tickets by a classified letter system. Different tickets entitled the guests to different levels of attractions. This helped to spread the crowds across the entire park. It also eliminated the problem of carrying money to each ride." From "The Creation of Disneyland" by Reece Fischer

Call me radical, but I think we should periodically make some attempt to accurately characterize the creator of WDW when posting on a WDW website.

I just don’t see why it matters what Walt would have done. Things change...business models change. There is a possibility that Walt would have been persuaded to get on board with current times or be run out of his own company. It happens. Affordability is subjective. To many in this country, the idea of spending any $ on vacation is not affordable. So how do you define “affordable”? He might have wanted the parks to be somewhat inclusive, but there has always been a large portion of the population who was excluded from the ability to partake in this experience. There are still many options to make it more affordable at WDW. Perhaps you get the same or less for the same or more $, but, that’s just life now. That’s how many business operate, unfortunately. Disney is not unique.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

What happened to those? I missed it.

They were there for a while, with a high price tag... and then they were gone. That whole program didn't last long. Some of the add-ons that Disney offers work and some don't. I think they particularly relish targeting the big spenders to spend just a tad more. Disney is probably realistic about the limitations of trying to get a whole lot more from the likes of me, an APer who typically stays off site nowadays and is walking around with boxes of raisins in my pockets in order to curb snack spending.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I just don’t see why it matters what Walt would have done. Things change...business models change. There is a possibility that Walt would have been persuaded to get on board with current times or be run out of his own company. It happens. Affordability is subjective. To many in this country, the idea of spending any $ on vacation is not affordable. So how do you define “affordable”? He might have wanted the parks to be somewhat inclusive, but there has always been a large portion of the population who was excluded from the ability to partake in this experience. There are still many options to make it more affordable at WDW. Perhaps you get the same or less for the same or more $, but, that’s just life now. That’s how many business operate, unfortunately. Disney is not unique.

But most of what you say here doesn't have anything to do with anything I said.
1. I didn't say what Walt would do. How many times do I have to repeat that?
2. Obviously vacation affordability is subjective.
3. I never tried to define what $$$ of vacation is affordable for others. But that's a total rabbit hole.

If you are going to invite me down that rabbit hole...

The GoLinx bus still has drop offs on WDW property. A fixed route all-day GoLinx bus pass costs $2.25. Once you are on WDW property, there are a number of completely free things to do: walk around Disney Springs, visit the hotels, walk around the boardwalk, see the fireworks from the Grand Floridian or the monorail platform, listen to music in the GF lobby, observe the animals at AKL, see an outdoor movie..There are many DIS threads on the subject of free (and low cost) things to do at WDW.

There's also still a Mc Donald's on WDW property. I haven't been there recently, but I imagine they have the same $1 menu as every other McD's in the USA.

It is entirely possible to spend a whole day on WDW property for under $5, including food and transportation.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

It is entirely possible to spend a whole day on WDW property for under $5, including food and transportation.

That highway McDonald's probably isn't accessible, but other than food, I agree with you. I guess you can bring your own food.

 

[Davey Jones II]

Well, sure you can. You'll just have to postpone your vacation until you've saved up enough to do so. Presumably, if you can afford to take a vacation at all, you could keep saving instead of traveling now, and eventually you'd save up enough to add on the luxury options.

This is supposed to be a serious response? You managed to write this with a straight face?

Sure, I'd love to take a vacation only once every 6-7 years, so that I can stay in a grossly overpriced room and get three more FPs per day

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

This is supposed to be a serious response? You managed to write this with a straight face?

Sure, I'd love to take a vacation only once every 5-6 years, so that I can stay in a grossly overpriced room and get three more FPs per day

There are plenty of people who have to wait 5-6 years to go on ANY vacation.

 

[anomamatt]

That highway McDonald's probably isn't accessible, but other than food, I agree with you. I guess you can bring your own food.

You can walk to the McD's from All Star Sports (5-7 mins).

 

[Davey Jones II]

There are plenty of people who have to wait 5-6 years to go on ANY vacation.

Well, I don't have to, unless I lose my mind and decide to save up for an outrageously expensive hotel room.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Well, I don't have to, unless I lose my mind and decide to save up for an outrageously expensive hotel room.

I'm not sure what your point is. Personally, for me, the Club Level is worth it. It's OK if it isn't for you.

 

[Magic_Man]

Again, at MOST it's 2% of the resort FP capacity (if EVERY CL guest chooses this option for every single day -- which will not happen). That is the worst case scenario. A 2% change in FP availability will not have a noticeable impact. [If you add in the FP capacity that exists for off-site guests, it's way less than 0.5%.]

Now, if this expands outside of CL (as some have speculated) in the future, that changes things. CL is a tiny fraction of WDW rooms (~2%).

Not challenging the ultimate conclusion of "no noticeable impact", but there are some other things to consider:
By my count, CL rooms are about 3% of all rooms. (around 900 out of 30,800 total rooms). But that's not the main point. Which is....
These new FPs are not tiered and can be targeted. It stands to reason that if one is going to pay extra for such FPs, they aren't going to buy them and use them for JII. They are going to be disproportionately weighted toward the same 5-10 attractions, over and over again. For people paying this money and using their passes at AK, how many will be used at attractions not named FoP, Navi River and Kilimanjaro? If you really feel the need for a Character FP or a Dinosaur FP, you easily get one at your 60 day mark. So when 100% of the AK FPs are used for the same three attractions, the impact will be much greater than if the FPs were distributed randomly across all FP eligible attractions. Will any of this impact the people at the 60 day mark? Probably not in terms of overall ability to get a pass. But it may limit the time period that you find available. Won't the strategy be for people to use their extras in the afternoon so that they can burn through their other 3 in the morning, thus triggering the ability to get additional SDFPs? So if you go on line looking for an afternoon FP for FoP, you may see a decline in availability. Again, will this hurt the on-site guests? Probably not. Will the impact flow downstream to the offsite guests? I think it has to.