Visiting 1st time since FP+ implemented....

[Cormoran]

it is really not difficult to make extra FP in the park. Anyone who says it is...i don't know....must have a hard time with technology, I suppose.

Only thing to worry about is the lines can get long. They really should add more kiosks.

I don't think people are complaining about the difficulty of using the kiosks. They're complaining about the long kiosk lines.

 

[JimmyV]

I don't think people are complaining about the difficulty of using the kiosks. They're complaining about the long kiosk lines.

To be fair, though....one of the reasons why the lines are long is because so many people are flummoxed once it is their turn to use the machine. All it takes is one person who is a deer in the headlights to bog the system down by 5 minutes. If there are two such people in front of you, you are bogged down by 10 minutes. And so on.

 

[Hokie2000]

What Laketravis said.

Then........
If attraction is not available, sign will say so and I move along wasting no time.
If attraction is available, Sign tells me the return time. It says, for example, "Return time: 4:15"
Insert Card.
Receive slip of paper good for 4:15-5:15.


Now.......
No idea what is available.
Tap card or band to machine.
Scroll through attractions.
The ones I want are not available. Wasted my time.
If the ones I want are available, I select them.
System gives me "best options".
None are optimal. But I chose the one that is least compatible to what I want.
Then, one by one, I change my attractions to times that better suit me.
After several minutes, I now have a FP for 4:15-5:15.
If person is not familiar with the "pick the worst option and then change it" functionality, they are stuck with the computer's "best" option which may not be suitable given other plans for the day.

Does anyone remember Joey's infomercial on Friends? The one where he couldn't open a milk carton?

Posts like these (on both sides of the grand FP+ debate, before anyone accuses me of working for Disney) remind me of that scene. One task is over-complicated, the other is over-simplified. This post is technically true, I'm not trying to say that it isn't, it just reminded me of Joey ripping open the milk carton like it was impossible to open. I think everyone (myself included) is a little guilty of it; we're just naturally willing to overlook any flaws with the system we like better or that we think makes more sense.

 

[Cormoran]

What Laketravis said.

Then........
If attraction is not available, sign will say so and I move along wasting no time.
If attraction is available, Sign tells me the return time. It says, for example, "Return time: 4:15"
Insert Card.
Receive slip of paper good for 4:15-5:15.


Now.......
No idea what is available.
Tap card or band to machine.
Scroll through attractions.
The ones I want are not available. Wasted my time.
If the ones I want are available, I select them.
System gives me "best options".
None are optimal. But I chose the one that is least compatible to what I want.
Then, one by one, I change my attractions to times that better suit me.
After several minutes, I now have a FP for 4:15-5:15.
If person is not familiar with the "pick the worst option and then change it" functionality, they are stuck with the computer's "best" option which may not be suitable given other plans for the day.

You forgot to mention 2 additional steps with the new kiosks: hunt around the park and try to find the kiosks, because the location is not on the park maps, and stand in line for the kiosk.

 

[Mikie]

Does anyone remember Joey's infomercial on Friends? The one where he couldn't open a milk carton?

Posts like these (on both sides of the grand FP+ debate, before anyone accuses me of working for Disney) remind me of that scene. One task is over-complicated, the other is over-simplified. This post is technically true, I'm not trying to say that it isn't, it just reminded me of Joey ripping open the milk carton like it was impossible to open. I think everyone (myself included) is a little guilty of it; we're just naturally willing to overlook any flaws with the system we like better or that we think makes more sense.

yes this, in addition to implying that anyone who doesn't trash the new system is being paid to tell glowing lies about it. I had hoped I misunderstood that post and it was an honest question, but nope, outright accusation. I pay more attention to the meat of a comment that the author. But I think Disneykidd is one who defends FP in other threads, however, the initial post in here seemed pretty straightforward "just the facts" to me.

 

[grimley1968]

What Laketravis said.

Then........
If attraction is not available, sign will say so and I move along wasting no time.
If attraction is available, Sign tells me the return time. It says, for example, "Return time: 4:15"
Insert Card.
Receive slip of paper good for 4:15-5:15.


Now.......
No idea what is available.
Tap card or band to machine.
Scroll through attractions.
The ones I want are not available. Wasted my time.
If the ones I want are available, I select them.
System gives me "best options".
None are optimal. But I chose the one that is least compatible to what I want.
Then, one by one, I change my attractions to times that better suit me.
After several minutes, I now have a FP for 4:15-5:15.
If person is not familiar with the "pick the worst option and then change it" functionality, they are stuck with the computer's "best" option which may not be suitable given other plans for the day.

I can't imagine what a flowchart of the bolded would look like.

There's no question that in theory, and in practice, FP+ kiosks are a LOT different than FP- machines.

 

[MrInfinity]

To be fair, though....one of the reasons why the lines are long is because so many people are flummoxed once it is their turn to use the machine. All it takes is one person who is a deer in the headlights to bog the system down by 5 minutes. If there are two such people in front of you, you are bogged down by 10 minutes. And so on.

On our trip, I don't think we waited over 5 min for a kiosk. And they were pretty easy to find. We did not know where they were, and literally just bumped into them. I went into the last trip thinking I had to know where they are, but I couldn't find this info definitively because they change. In practice it didn't matter, by the time you use your first 3, you've been there long enough to have seen where some of them are.

I will say we did not do the rope-drop mad dash to get FP's first thing. I figure those would be slammed. But if you pick your first 3 from home, you avoid this.

As to the deer in headlights. Yep. But there were CMs at every kiosk. Usually the CM would insist that they do the tapping for us-- even tho I'd be wanting to navigate the screen myself. Obviously they're used to having to help folks move along. They were definitely nudging you to make a choice and not study / take up the machine.

 

[Laketravis]

2pm in the afternoon on a "4" day at HS:

 

[siskaren]

Rather than answering the OP's original question, it was a PR presentation about the wonders of FP+ and how well it works.

I must have missed that:

Theoretically, the FP+ Kiosk's work like the old FP machines. Instead of going to individual attractions for a FP, you hit up a Kiosk to check availability and book a reservation. So, after your three reserved FP+, you can obtain a 4th, 5th, 6th, etc., etc. Of course, dependent on a lot of factors, some people have met with success obtaining additional FPs while others have not.

Some people like to schedule their three early, to increase their chances of finding availability for additional FPs. That seems to work well in the MK, where there are a lot of attractions and no tiering. Not so much at DHS and Epcot. FPs aren't all that necessary in AK if you rope drop.

We are fans of rope drop at all the parks, hopping to a different park later in the day, FP+ in hand. However, that strategy isn't best for obtaining additional FPs.

The bolded statements certainly seem to be acknowledging some of the shortcomings of FP+.

 

[JimmyV]

As to the deer in headlights. Yep. But there were CMs at every kiosk. Usually the CM would insist that they do the tapping for us-- even tho I'd be wanting to navigate the screen myself. Obviously they're used to having to help folks move along. They were definitely nudging you to make a choice and not study / take up the machine.

The CMs do a pretty good job at intercepting the clueless or newbies. But to the point made earlier that using the FP+ machines is pretty much the same as using FP- machines.....well.....did FP- distribution areas have or need CMs at every single machine? Nope. Tells you something right there, doesn't it. CMs are the tangible evidence that guests are more confused and/or slower in their approach than they were before. Hopefully in time this will lessen.

 

[siskaren]

Then........
If attraction is not available, sign will say so and I move along wasting no time.

How is it not wasting time to walk all the way to an attraction to see if FP is available, only to find out it's not? I'm not saying the current system is better, I just don't see how this scenario isn't wasting time.

 

[Laketravis]

How is it not wasting time to walk all the way to an attraction to see if FP is available, only to find out it's not? I'm not saying the current system is better, I just don't see how this scenario isn't wasting time.

I personally never walked all the way to an attraction just to see if FP's were still available, and at least in EP there were a couple of big signs that showed what attractions still had FP available. That's no longer true.

Geee.... why did they stop doing that? Is it no longer technologically possible to display on large signs for all to see which FP's are still available?

 

[MrInfinity]

The CMs do a pretty good job at intercepting the clueless or newbies. But to the point made earlier that using the FP+ machines is pretty much the same as using FP- machines.....well.....did FP- distribution areas have or need CMs at every single machine? Nope. Tells you something right there, doesn't it. CMs are the tangible evidence that guests are more confused and/or slower in their approach than they were before. Hopefully in time this will lessen.

I'm a "CM" at my job and show people regularly how to add two cells in Excel. That does not mean they should sell their computer and use a notepad.

Learning tech takes time. Disney knows this and has done a good job of staffing to make their rollout successful.

After all my company wouldn't need me to help people with tech... if they would just not be technological and use a paper-based system for everything.

 

[JimmyV]

How is it not wasting time to walk all the way to an attraction to see if FP is available, only to find out it's not? I'm not saying the current system is better, I just don't see how this scenario isn't wasting time.

Having logged over 200+ park days so far, I never, ever did that. If you listen to some here, you would think that getting FP-s was like running an immunity challenge on Survivor, or a leg on the Amazing Race. But for all the time I have spent in the parks, I never saw rampant running to and fro. It's a myth. I suppose there are some who might have started out in Frontierland to ride Spalsh, and then ran over to Space Mountain to get a FP for it, and then ran back to ride Thunder Mountain, and then crossed the park again to use their Space FP. But there is a word for the very few people who did that....idiots. Besides, there were lighted boards around the parks that told you what the wait times were at the various rides and what the FP return times were. To the extent that you were over at Everest and wanted to know what the return times were for the Safari, you could find that out without going all the way over to the Safari.

 

[Laketravis]

I'm a "CM" at my job and show people regularly how to add two cells in Excel. That does not mean they should sell their computer and use a notepad.

Learning tech takes time. Disney knows this and has done a good job of staffing to make their rollout successful.

After all my company wouldn't need me to help people with tech... if they would just not be technological and use a paper-based system for everything.

Unless you've got extremely high turnover were you work and an entirely new bunch to train every day, it's not a true comparison.

This "rollout" is perpetual for Disney.

 

[Cormoran]

I'm a "CM" at my job and show people regularly how to add two cells in Excel. That does not mean they should sell their computer and use a notepad.

Learning tech takes time. Disney knows this and has done a good job of staffing to make their rollout successful.

After all my company wouldn't need me to help people with tech... if they would just not be technological and use a paper-based system for everything.

You're right the CM's are great, but I believe that Disney hoped guests would catch on to the system. But FP+ requires a continuous stream of educators for new students. Additionally, some of the new students are lined up at the kiosks and they require additional support. Subsequently, the lines at kiosk can be really long.

 

[JimmyV]

I'm a "CM" at my job and show people regularly how to add two cells in Excel. That does not mean they should sell their computer and use a notepad.

Learning tech takes time. Disney knows this and has done a good job of staffing to make their rollout successful.

After all my company wouldn't need me to help people with tech... if they would just not be technological and use a paper-based system for everything.

Slightly misses the point. FP- distribution areas were also "tech". But at no point in time from introduction until retirement did they require staffing that we see currently. I'm not faulting Disney for staffing to fill the need, as you seem to suggest I am. I am simply pointing out that there is a need now that did not exist with FP-. So for someone to say that the usage of the two types of machines is more or less the same, the upped staffing belies that point. I know that there is always going to be back-and-forth on everything having to do with this topic, but c'mon. This point is not fairly debatable.

 

[MrInfinity]

Slightly misses the point. FP- distribution areas were also "tech". But at no point in time from introduction until retirement did they require staffing that we see currently. I'm not faulting Disney for staffing to fill the need, as you seem to suggest I am. I am simply pointing out that there is a need now that did not exist with FP-. So for someone to say that the usage of the two types of machines is more or less the same, the upped staffing belies that point. I know that there is always going to be back-and-forth on everything having to do with this topic, but c'mon. This point is not fairly debatable.

Yes but FP- is now "old tech". It's paper tickets. I don't even use a paper ticket to go to the MOVIES. Simple mundane everyday thing.

I'll buy my tix online, text them to myself, pull up the link, they scan it at the movies, and away I go!

First time I tried this, like 2 years ago, it glitched... they tried and tried, but could not scan the plain as day barcode symbol on my phone, till eventually they had to take my phone and manually type in the little numbers.

It's come a long way since then and has worked like a charm every time I've done it since.

Same thing w Disney. Disney is not putting in a phone-based system because they want people to get and learn smartphones. They're putting in a phone-based system because their target demographic has and uses smartphones for everything, and Disney needs to keep meeting the demands of the new era.

 

[Hokie2000]

Having logged over 200+ park days so far, I never, ever did that. If you listen to some here, you would think that getting FP-s was like running an immunity challenge on Survivor, or a leg on the Amazing Race. But for all the time I have spent in the parks, I never saw rampant running to and fro. It's a myth. I suppose there are some who might have started out in Frontierland to ride Spalsh, and then ran over to Space Mountain to get a FP for it, and then ran back to ride Thunder Mountain, and then crossed the park again to use their Space FP. But there is a word for the very few people who did that....idiots. Besides, there were lighted boards around the parks that told you what the wait times were at the various rides and what the FP return times were. To the extent that you were over at Everest and wanted to know what the return times were for the Safari, you could find that out without going all the way over to the Safari.

Where were these boards all over the parks? I know Epcot had one in the center in front of the Fountain of Nations, and two as you walked through the breezeways to get to FW West and FW East. DHS had one at that billboard thing by the fountain at the end of the street, but I can't recall where the MK or AK times boards were. I'm sure they had at least one, I just can't remember seeing it.

And furthermore, how do you know what other people were doing? Did you station yourself at a FP machine and quiz the people getting FPs? Where are you coming from? Where are you going? Why can't I open this milk carton!

I never ran around the parks like a pinball either. But then again I was a poor user of FP- as we usually would get around 3-4 a day. I have, however, joined the mob trotting over to TSMM at RD trying to figure out if we'd ride first or FP first, was the FP "runner" to Soarin while my fam went to TT, FP "runner" to TSMM while my kids got signed up for JTA, and I shamefully took part of the "running of the Belles." All things that were not that big of a deal but that I'd rather not do.

There seems to be an effort to put a lot of these things down the memory hole, but they've been well documented on these boards. People used to do these things, whether they needed to or not. If they like that FP+ works in a way that doesn't compel them to do these (admittedly ridiculous) things, why is that such a big deal?

 

[Laketravis]

Disney is not putting in a phone-based system because they want people to get and learn smartphones. They're putting in a phone-based system because their target demographic has and uses smartphones for everything, and Disney needs to keep meeting the demands of the new era.

Sure they are.

Change that to "Disney needs to keep exploiting the behavior of the new era" and you may be on to something.

Disney is migrating to a phone based app because it's one of the most cost effective provisioning platforms available.