VGF worth the Money ? Why I think YES!!!

[VGF Ben]

And by "very large portion", I mean "almost everyone". You can't take the people here as a representative sample. They are a tiny fraction of DVC buyers. For the people that do make it here (and other places likes this), I DO think many of them do their due diligence.

Oh, man, dude.....get over yourself....you are living in your own lala land

 

[Johnny D]

Ben and Dean it's time for a beer summit!! LOL

After reading every post in these now 9 pages, I don't know if there is much I can add.

But I will try. I am heavily in the Ben camp. Not because I have bought into VGF, but because I have been a DVC member for 14 years and I understand what I bought.

The only offense I took, (and believe me I am not easily offended) is that people seem to believe that people who purchased into the Grand at $150 are somewhat stupid or didn't know what they were buying and were duped. This can't be further from the truth for me and I think many owners. We understand the basic economics of supply and demand.

The value of this resort is everything Ben has said. The size (huge factor), location, top of the line amenities, and finally it being Disney's Flagship property.

Like myself, many owners, especially the add on owners, put these VGF points in a vault just for VGF. My BWV points will be used primarily at BWV, but occasional stays at other places. I plan on booking my vacations in October, December, March, and April. And I WILL go on the record and say it WILL be IMPOSSIBLE to book a weeks vacation at the VGF in a studio in those months if you don't own there.

As far as people comparing VGF to BLT and saying, "people said I would never be able to book there and I have". The studios are terrible (IMO) and the place is 3x the size. In this case size matters. I think Poly will rival VGF, but I prefer VGF and believe the plans for Poly are that it will be a larger resort.

It seems to me that the people who bought resale and saved money think that is the smart move because they bought the same thing as the people who bought at $150 a point. Yes you saved money but did not buy the same thing. My kids and Grand kids will be using these points for 50 years at Disney's Flagship resort without worrying if they can get at in. I think that's better than having SSR points expiring 10 years earlier and picking up a few days at the Grand in September and Mid January. I know what I bought.

 

[chukdotcom]

BTW, all you have to do is look at the usurious interest rates Disney charges to get an idea of their target market.

 

[chukdotcom]

Ben and Dean it's time for a beer summit!! LOL

After reading every post in these now 9 pages, I don't know if there is much I can add.

But I will try. I am heavily in the Ben camp. Not because I have bought into VGF, but because I have been a DVC member for 14 years and I understand what I bought.

The only offense I took, (and believe me I am not easily offended) is that people seem to believe that people who purchased into the Grand at $150 are somewhat stupid or didn't know what they were buying and were duped. This can't be further from the truth for me and I think many owners. We understand the basic economics of supply and demand.

The value of this resort is everything Ben has said. The size (huge factor), location, top of the line amenities, and finally it being Disney's Flagship property.

Like myself, many owners, especially the add on owners, put these VGF points in a vault just for VGF. My BWV points will be used primarily at BWV, but occasional stays at other places. I plan on booking my vacations in October, December, March, and April. And I WILL go on the record and say it WILL be IMPOSSIBLE to book a weeks vacation at the VGF in a studio in those months if you don't own there.

As far as people comparing VGF to BLT and saying, "people said I would never be able to book there and I have". The studios are terrible (IMO) and the place is 3x the size. In this case size matters. I think Poly will rival VGF, but I prefer VGF and believe the plans for Poly are that it will be a larger resort.

It seems to me that the people who bought resale and saved money think that is the smart move because they bought the same thing as the people who bought at $150 a point. Yes you saved money but did not buy the same thing. My kids and Grand kids will be using these points for 50 years at Disney's Flagship resort without worrying if they can get at in. I think that's better than having SSR points expiring 10 years earlier and picking up a few days at the Grand in September and Mid January. I know what I bought.

Some were stupid. Some were smart.
Some knew what they were doing. Some did not.

 

[Dean]

You keep using words like "quite a few" and "insignificant number" that have a different meaning to different people. Can you put a percentage in its place so we can make a better judgement on your statements?

I don't think I can and really don't think it matters because it will affect the individual. Likely a significant minority that would vary by how stringently you want to define the criteria as well. I'd GUESS that the majority have some type of restriction of when they can't go or chose not to go.

You don't seem to have a lot of confidence in the intelligence and decision making of the people buying DVC and especially VGF. I think I'm offended and I would appreciate it if you would tell me if I am or not since I'm one of the stupid people that bought in.

I don't question the intelligence but do feel that in general MANY who buy don't have sufficient data to make good long term decisions AND that many buy more on hype, emotion and assumptions that might not end up being accurate. The truth is that in my world I think those with more education tend to make the worst decisions and tend to be more likely to defend bad decisions when toys and travel are involved. In addition many figure close to best case scenario when analyzing a possible purchase ignoring much of the risks involved. DVC buyers are an extension of the population at large. Just look at the % of people who lease an automobile as a very good example, I'll probably step on toes her as well but it's the truth. In addition, timeshare sales staff tend to be some of the best con artists in the world.

The fact is you don't know what is going to happen and you are guessing. You are stating with certainty things that are only conjecture. I disagree with much of what you're saying but I hope you keep the comments coming so people can get the differing opinions.

I don't think so. We know that every time one uses points from VGF at a different resort that they could have used points that would have been much cheaper such as SSR. We also can calculate the value of DCL or ABD simply by taking the costs of those items and determining the return. Remember this is a purchase scenario, not a use what you already have discussion. I'd suggest (already did once) that it's cheaper to buy something like SSR and pay cash for VGF every few years than it would be to buy VGF and use those points for non VGF resorts a significant portion. Where the set point is varies of course. For one who had followed DVC but never bought because they always stayed at GF and are comfortable with the limitations and risks of a timeshare, they are likely going to come out very well. One who passes by the DVC booths, takes the tour and buys, not so much, even if they come here first and investigate somewhat.

As I believe I've stated on another thread at least once and as I've told at least one participant in this thread previously when we were discussing the plusses and minuses of buying; were I in a better liquid state currently (building a house), I'd almost certainly have bought a fixed week there because I do think it'll be a very nice addition and difficult to get into. However, I am confident I will be able to get in a few times over the years, enough to satisfy our needs/wants.

 

[VGF Ben]

Some were stupid. Some were smart.
Some knew what they were doing. Some did not.

And you're willing to greet each one and tell them whether they were stupid or smart....right, chuck? Because you were blessed (fortunately for all of us) with that ability....

 

[chukdotcom]

And you're willing to greet each one and tell them whether they were stupid or smart....right, chuck? Because you were blessed (fortunately for all of us) with that ability....

Nope. I never passed judgement on a single person. Only you did.

 

[Dean]

Quote ME where I said never and meant it as never....I've been quoted multiple times saying the opposite, that you can find a few days here and there now....but that I thought, once it was 90+% sold, it would probably be never....or close to it....

And when you talk about trading out and trading in, etc....keep in mind that I've only been talking about studios in my discussions....that changes your zero sum game conclusions....

I can't speak to your intent, if you intended differently, please clarify. On page 2 you posted this, seems very absolute to me. Maybe that's not what you intended.

Dean, you're deluding yourself if you think VGF studios are going to be available at 7 months. I've been checking multiple times at 11 months, and I'll tell you, if you don't book right away at 11 months, you've lost the opportunity and it's getting worse...and for Christmas and high demand times, you'd better walk your reservation. It's a fact. We're seeing this now with less than half the place sold. Double that, and it will be very difficult for even a VGF owner to book there unless they are very prepared.

 

[chukdotcom]

I can't speak to your intent, if you intended differently, please clarify. On page 2 you posted this, seems very absolute to me. Maybe that's not what you intended.

"I want to stress, you will NEVER be able to stay at VGF studio, standard view, at the 7 month window at any time of the year except for a possible day or two once it sells out."

That pretty much sounds like NEVER to me. Caps included.

 

[chukdotcom]

Double that, and it will be very difficult for even a VGF owner to book there unless they are very prepared.

Sounds to me like lots of VGF owners will be trading in their Mercedes for Hondas. But I thought you said that would never happen? Can you please clarify your completely contradictory stances?

 

[VGF Ben]

I'd suggest (already did once) that it's cheaper to buy something like SSR and pay cash for VGF every few years than it would be to buy VGF and use those points for non VGF resorts a significant portion.

You see, Dean, here's the real kicker....If I buy 100 points at VGF for $15k and you buy 100 points at SSR for $6500, in 20 years, You've paid $8500 less than I have...a drop in the bucket compared to the total of vacation costs for those 20 years, but you've paid ADDITIONAL CASH to stay at the VGF a couple of times, whereas I've been staying every year, or every other year, at the Grand! Oh, and how much were your VGF rental stays costing you? $3000?....that difference gets smaller all the time.....

That's the value, my friend. See I don't want to waste my time farting around with schemes to find availability at better resorts, having to rent a car for every trip because that's the only efficient way to get around....all so I can save what in the grand scheme of even HALF the length of this 50 year contract, a pittance of money...by buying cheap and trying to trade up.

 

[VGF Ben]

I can't speak to your intent, if you intended differently, please clarify. On page 2 you posted this, seems very absolute to me. Maybe that's not what you intended.

Where is the word never? Couldn't find it?

 

[VGF Ben]

"I want to stress, you will NEVER be able to stay at VGF studio, standard view, at the 7 month window at any time of the year except for a possible day or two once it sells out."

That pretty much sounds like NEVER to me. Caps included.

you missed the "except for a possible day or two" (and implied here and there...as I had stated before)

 

[chukdotcom]

You see, Dean, here's the real kicker....If I buy 100 points at VGF for $15k and you buy 100 points at SSR for $6500, in 20 years, You've paid $8500 less than I have...a drop in the bucket compared to the total of vacation costs for those 20 years, but you've paid ADDITIONAL CASH to stay at the VGF a couple of times, whereas I've been staying every year, or every other year, at the Grand! Oh, and how much were your VGF rental stays costing you? $3000?....that difference gets smaller all the time.....

That's the value, my friend. See I don't want to waste my time farting around with schemes to find availability at better resorts, having to rent a car for every trip because that's the only efficient way to get around....all so I can save what in the grand scheme of even HALF the length of this 50 year contract, a pittance of money...by buying cheap and trying to trade up.

Yikes, that's some interesting math. No wonder you are so confused.

hint: 48k vs 20k

 

[VGF Ben]

I've made my point....if all we're going to discuss at this point is semantics, it's boring me....

 

[VGF Ben]

Yikes, that's some interesting math. No wonder you are so confused.

hint: 48k vs 20k

48k vs 20k? What are you talking about Chuck?

Last I checked 100 x 150 = 15k and 100 x 65 (I was generous as a 100 point contract would probably sell for higher unless it was stripped) = 6500...

Where do you get 48k vs. 20k? You been smoking something?

 

[VGF Ben]

Yikes, that's some interesting math. No wonder you are so confused.

hint: 48k vs 20k

If you're trying to include maintenance costs....they're about 50 cents/point apart right now, so assuming VGF stays above SSR (big assumption as SSR is older and will need more repairs in 20 years)....I'll give you an additional $50/year....so....an additional $1000....

your 48k vs 20k is crazy....

 

[chukdotcom]

48k vs 20k? What are you talking about Chuck? Last I checked 100 x 150 = 15k and 100 x 65 (I was generous as a 100 point contract would probably sell for higher unless it was stripped) = 6500... Where do you get 48k vs. 20k? You been smoking something?

Remember what I said about people not doing their due diligence?

 

[chukdotcom]

If you're trying to include maintenance costs....they're about 50 cents/point apart right now, so assuming VGF stays above SSR (big assumption as SSR is older and will need more repairs in 20 years)....I'll give you an additional $50/year....so....an additional $1000....

your 48k vs 20k is crazy....

You're getting colder...

 

[Johnny D]

chuck....I'm not getting your math either. What's the riddle?