VGF worth the Money ? Why I think YES!!!

[chukdotcom]

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. Yes, it will be more than the other resorts because it is "new" and has the longest remaining contract length of any of the resorts, but it will still be ~$20-$30/point less than buying direct. What's your point?





If and only if that booking advantage means anything to you. I get that you want the booking advantage at VGF, but are concerned that you might not always be able to book 11 months in advance. Unfortunately, that's the name of the game, and if it doesn't work for you, then DVC might not be the right fit. However, I think you might be onto something with the fixed-week notion. It seems to me that that's your best option if you don't want to stay anywhere but VGF and can't always book 11 months in advance. What's the problem with going in this direction?

I think you have me confused with someone else, or are confused on the current topic at hand. I am not interested in buying VGF. And it is not a question of direct vs resale. It is a question of if you buy VGF (direct or resale), you better plan on using it at VGF every time. If not, you are wasting money by buying more expensive VGF points.

 

[BenDiscipio]

OK. My statement was exaggerated at the numbers side.

You can stay 12 nights at a AKV Value Studio (with 11 left over points) with 1 week (7 night) points of a VGF Studio (Adventure Season).

You can stay 6 nights at a AKV Value 1 BR (with 8 left over points) with 1 week points of a VGF Studio (Adventure Season).

So, yes, my statement maybe was exaggerated, but the idea remains the same. With the points needed for VGF you can do a LOT more on other cheapier resorts and that's OK. I'm just making a point that lots of people will consider/need such scenarios a lot of times!

What you fail to mention is that those Value accommodations are only available to AKL at almost ALL times....of course, far be it from you to let facts interfere with a good flow, right?

I already did all the analysis on points comparisons...you can go back to my earlier post....the differences are hardly as dramatic as you like to make them....they are negligible for a family whose intention it is to stay at the Grand....

 

[Lorilais_mommie]

What you fail to mention is that those Value accommodations are only available to AKL at almost ALL times....of course, far be it from you to let facts interfere with a good flow, right? I already did all the analysis on points comparisons...you can go back to my earlier post....the differences are hardly as dramatic as you like to make them....they are negligible for a family whose intention it is to stay at the Grand....

From what I've read the value level is hard to get..
Haven't tried getting a value level yet, so I wouldn't know..

 

[BenDiscipio]

Yes. But 80->60 is less than 150->60. And the only reason I didn't use $60 because I didn't want to get into an argument about resale prices. Bottom line is, if you are going to be booking at 7 months, you should own the cheapest points. And if you can't get VGF at 11 months, then your points aren't worth any more than the SSR ones. So if you have to book something else because VGF isn't available, you are taking a much larger hit than any other DVC owner.

"Are you saying most (more then half) owners trying to book at their home resort during the busiest times get turned away due to availability at 11 months"

Yes, way more. For every person that gets a reservation at 7-11 months for the first week in December, there will be at LEAST 1 that can't.

While at might be challenging at times to get your whole week at 11 months. If you book, right at 11 months, you should be ok most times....and surely it can be rectified in a number of ways without having to up and move your reservation to a $60 resort....clearly the hyperbole is clouding the picture here....

Your other quote about availability is also clearly conjecture on your part as there is no data backing it up....but don't let facts get in the way of your clear flow....

 

[chukdotcom]

While at might be challenging at times to get your whole week at 11 months. If you book, right at 11 months, you should be ok most times....and surely it can be rectified in a number of ways without having to up and move your reservation to a $60 resort....clearly the hyperbole is clouding the picture here....

Your other quote about availability is also clearly conjecture on your part as there is no data backing it up....but don't let facts get in the way of your clear flow....

Not sure why you are attacking me. If anything, I am defending your position. Buying VGF is a good value if you can always stay at VGF. It is a terrible one if you can't. End of story.

 

[chukdotcom]

While at might be challenging at times to get your whole week at 11 months. If you book, right at 11 months, you should be ok most times....and surely it can be rectified in a number of ways without having to up and move your reservation to a $60 resort....clearly the hyperbole is clouding the picture here....

Your other quote about availability is also clearly conjecture on your part as there is no data backing it up....but don't let facts get in the way of your clear flow....

And no, it is not. With 147 Max. Available, those will all be booked at 11 months. So you don't think that at least 147 people try to book that same week from 11-7 months?

 

[BenDiscipio]

When you buy into DVC, one of the "perks" is the ability to stay at any of the DVC locations, provided that you can find availability within the 7 month booking window if booking outside of your home resort. Keep in mind, the fact that resorts outside of VGF cost less per point via resale is partly because the contracts expire ~20 years sooner (depending on resort). It's not necessarily because you're getting $70 per point "less" in terms of accommodations. By and large, a 1BR at "X" resort is roughly the same as a 1BR at "Y" resort in terms of actual accommodations. Yes, VGF has newer and nicer finishings, but you are not getting much more in terms of room size, ammenities, transportation, etc.

At the end of the day, if your desire is to stay at VGF for the majority of your travels, AND the extra lifespan of the contract is of value to you and your family, then it is worth the premium to own there to guarantee availability at the 11 month window. If you do not intend on staying there often NOR do you care about having a contract that lasts until 2064, then I find it a tremendous waste of money to buy-in at $150/point when other resorts can be had for so much less.

People have to keep in mind, when buying into DVC, you are not buying into a specific hotel. Rather, you are buying POINTS in a timeshare program that lasts a pre-determined period of time. By virtue of the program, you HAVE to select a home resort. If a particular home resort AND/OR duration of contract associated with said home resort means anything to you, then it can be worthwhile to own at that particular home resort. If not, then economics certainly play a bigger part and choosing a less-costly $/point or annual maintenance fee is a much better avenue to take.

All too often, these types of conversations become heated, as many of us are emotionally attached to certain resorts. When making the decision of whether or not to buy into DVC, one needs to take the personal feelings out of the equation, crunch the numbers for the various options (which resort, resale or direct, how many points), and determine what is best for your family and your situation. And that's the end of the story, folks.

You're kidding with that first paragraph, right? VGF isn't getting more for their accommodations? Really? Let's leave the rooms aside, which I think have been covered. They're gorgeous....but let's forget that. You're accommodations are inextricably tied to the resort they SIT on. The Grand is the flagship for Disney and always has. 2 Signature restaurants plus a 5 star Super Signature restaurant, another tables service in GF Cafe which is on most people's hidden gem list, a full service spa RIGHT ACROSS the STREET! Monorail and Boat service....5 minute walk from the Poly....Some of the most beautiful grounds on any resort at Disney....

Look, I'm not poking fun at other DVC's....they are all great in their own right....and truthfully, I'd probably be happy owning points at any one of them....but we're talking about VALUE here....and clearly the stature of the Grand adds considerably to the value of the DVC property. But the single most important factor is the size of the DVC at VGF. It is the smallest of disney's DVC properties. History has shown us... aside from the lure of the Grand, the restaurants, the glistening step above accommodations, the transportation.....that small DVC resorts naturally have high demand, thus higher perceived value.

It's really hard being AKV and the largest DVC. It's a beautiful place and if it were smaller and harder to book, people would find it much more desirable, but somehow because you can get a room there if you need one for tomorrow, it is placed further down the hierarchy. Others move up the hierarchy because they are smaller.

VGF has size, reputation, amenities, accommodations, transportation....all in its favor....that contributes to its value equation. And that is something that most of you are not taking into account. You're treating it like it were just any other resort and it clearly isn't....not because I own there, but because it's the truth. It's why I bought there. Its a great value proposition.

As VGF fills and its difficulty to book becomes more known, its value will rise even more.

 

[BenDiscipio]

BLT is only 4 years less, but you can buy resale for $60 less. Again, buying VGF is fine exclusively for staying at VGF. If you own VGF points and book anywhere else, you are throwing money out the window. And it may very well be your INTENTION to always stay at VGF, but the reality is, that may not be possible unless your travel schedule is very flexible. For those that only travel busy weeks (like me), you may have a lot of trouble getting a reservation even in your home window. Fixed week makes a lot of sense at VGF IMO.

I agree with you that if you have VGF points, you are foolish to use them to book anywhere else on WDW property other than VGF or Poly....

As to vacation planning, I don't know many people that can't adjust a vacation 11 months in advance. If you find you're completely shut out at 11 months, you move your plans. If you just need a day or two, there are plenty of ways around that...move to a 1br for those two days or change your view....there's almost always a way. Otherwise, you alter your plans....

 

[BenDiscipio]

And no, it is not. With 147 Max. Available, those will all be booked at 11 months. So you don't think that at least 147 people try to book that same week from 11-7 months?

Yes...yes it is ... conjecture....no I don't think it'll be quite that bad to book RIGHT at 11 months. If you're waiting until 8-9 months, you're right....gonna be tough, unless you're very flexible.

 

[chukdotcom]

I agree with you that if you have VGF points, you are foolish to use them to book anywhere else on WDW property other than VGF or Poly....

As to vacation planning, I don't know many people that can't adjust a vacation 11 months in advance. If you find you're completely shut out at 11 months, you move your plans. If you just need a day or two, there are plenty of ways around that...move to a 1br for those two days or change your view....there's almost always a way. Otherwise, you alter your plans....

I can't. My wife is a teacher. There are pretty much 3 weeks of the year we can go. Christmas vacation, February vacation, and April vacation. Three of the most popular weeks. I will not to go Disney over the summer.

Many people are in similar situations with their kids in school.

 

[chukdotcom]

Yes...yes it is ... conjecture....no I don't think it'll be quite that bad to book RIGHT at 11 months. If you're waiting until 8-9 months, you're right....gonna be tough, unless you're very flexible.

So you agree with me. My only point was that for every person that books VGF with a home advantage for a busy week, there is at least 1 person that got shut out for THAT SAME WEEK. It is simple math.

 

[Thisdman]

Yes. But 80->60 is less than 150->60. And the only reason I didn't use $60 because I didn't want to get into an argument about resale prices. Bottom line is, if you are going to be booking at 7 months, you should own the cheapest points. And if you can't get VGF at 11 months, then your points aren't worth any more than the SSR ones. So if you have to book something else because VGF isn't available, you are taking a much larger hit than any other DVC owner.

"Are you saying most (more then half) owners trying to book at their home resort during the busiest times get turned away due to availability at 11 months"

Yes, way more. For every person that gets a reservation at 7-11 months for the first week in December, there will be at LEAST 1 that can't.

Ok I get it. As a VGF owner I stand to lose more then non VGF owners would lose. The caveat here is this only applies if I can't get into my home resort. Which brings me to the meat of the question. Can I expect not to get in? My question was specific "at 11 months". I mean to the day not in your qualifier of months 7-11. Do you still think more then half get turned away on that day? Anyone who waits past that day has a lot less to complain about since they waited and were beat out by other owners. It seems to me that if this number truly is over 50% disney would have a heck of a time trying to sell to people who are locked into vacationing at the busy times and can use their investment less then half the time.

 

[VGF Ben]

Ok I get it. As a VGF owner I stand to lose more then non VGF owners would lose. The caveat here is this only applies if I can't get into my home resort. Which brings me to the meat of the question. Can I expect not to get in? My question was specific "at 11 months". I mean to the day not in your qualifier of months 7-11. Do you still think more then half get turned away on that day? Anyone who waits past that day has a lot less to complain about since they waited and were beat out by other owners. It seems to me that if this number truly is over 50% disney would have a heck of a time trying to sell to people who are locked into vacationing at the busy times and can use their investment less then half the time.

No, he doesn't....he has no way of knowing what the statistics are of people booking vs. being turned away. Even in his simple math....I fail to see the equation....

By the way, this is still Ben....I changed my username....

 

[VGF Ben]

So you agree with me. My only point was that for every person that books VGF with a home advantage for a busy week, there is at least 1 person that got shut out for THAT SAME WEEK. It is simple math.

I agree with you that VGF should book at VGF, I don't agree that for every home advantage booker, there is another home advantage booker that got shut out. If you mean anyone from DVC that got shut out, then of course...there would be far more than 1 for every successful one....

I don't mean to say that VGF is for everyone....it isn't. But it represents the high end of deluxe at Disney. That isn't for everyone...but high end is always valued. If they had made VGF large though, it would have devalued the property. Multiple factors combine to make this an exclusive DVC offering. That exclusivity makes it desirable. That will be a factor with Poly as it looks to be a larger offering, though they were smart to pare it down from original projections.

Size killed AKV....it's too bad. You can rent points for as little as $8 last minute and still stay there...that doesn't help resale value. Too bad. I actually love the resort. It just has low value.

 

[chukdotcom]

No, he doesn't....he has no way of knowing what the statistics are of people booking vs. being turned away. Even in his simple math....I fail to see the equation....

By the way, this is still Ben....I changed my username....

Ben, let me make this easy for you. There are 52 weeks in a year, right? VGF is essentially booked 100% of the time. Now let's say when you use your points at VGF, you are renting the ENTIRE resort (this is the part that keeps it easy). That means only 52 people can own there and rent a week in a year. So you think that out of the 51 people that CAN'T book Xmas week, that not at LEAST ONE of them (that would be 50%) wanted that week and couldn't get it? You can add as many 0's to my example as you like, but it does not change the formula.

 

[chukdotcom]

I agree with you that VGF should book at VGF, I don't agree that for every home advantage booker, there is another home advantage booker that got shut out. If you mean anyone from DVC that got shut out, then of course...there would be far more than 1 for every successful one....

I don't mean to say that VGF is for everyone....it isn't. But it represents the high end of deluxe at Disney. That isn't for everyone...but high end is always valued. If they had made VGF large though, it would have devalued the property. Multiple factors combine to make this an exclusive DVC offering. That exclusivity makes it desirable. That will be a factor with Poly as it looks to be a larger offering, though they were smart to pare it down from original projections.

Size killed AKV....it's too bad. You can rent points for as little as $8 last minute and still stay there...that doesn't help resale value. Too bad. I actually love the resort. It just has low value.

I am only talking about the busy weeks. Which are the only weeks I can go. And yes, it is far more than 1.

 

[VGF Ben]

Ben, let me make this easy for you. There are 52 weeks in a year, right? VGF is essentially booked 100% of the time. Now let's say when you use your points at VGF, you are renting the ENTIRE resort (this is the part that keeps it easy). That means only 52 people can own there and rent a week in a year. So you think that out of the 51 people that CAN'T book Xmas week, that not at LEAST ONE of them (that would be 50%) wanted that week and couldn't get it? You can add as many 0's to my example as you like, but it does not change the formula.

For Christmas week, yes....but for other weeks, not necessarily....get what I'm saying? You didn't qualify it by saying Christmas Week....

 

[chukdotcom]

For Christmas week, yes....but for other weeks, not necessarily....get what I'm saying? You didn't qualify it by saying Christmas Week....

But I did:

"Yes, way more. For every person that gets a reservation at 7-11 months for the first week in December, there will be at LEAST 1 that can't."

I just picked one particular busy week for my example. Again, I (and MANY others) can only go about 3 different weeks of the year. My point was (and is) that for every person that wants to go to VGF during those busy weeks, there is AT LEAST one person that can't go (and probably more like 10).

 

[disneynutz]

I don't mean to say that VGF is for everyone....it isn't. But it represents the high end of deluxe at Disney. That isn't for everyone...but high end is always valued.

It's the free bath robes that makes the difference.

Bill

 

[chukdotcom]

For Christmas week, yes....but for other weeks, not necessarily....get what I'm saying? You didn't qualify it by saying Christmas Week....

And the biggest part that you still aren't getting is: If you and I both buy VGF at the exact same price, it may end up being well worth the money for you, but it could end up being a horrible waste of money for me. Not everyone has the same exact situation. This is why blanket statements don't work.